IL Track Tested: 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S PDK vs. 7-Speed Manual

That Price is a F**king joke right?

Love the redesign, but still sounds like a vacuum cleaner......
BD

blackd,
That's one hell of a dyson you got.

Man the PDK obliterated the seven speed!!

I personally think this has to do with the fact that there are seven speeds you need to row through. Unless your monster from death race 2000 who could "shift gears in less than a twentieth of a second" you just cant shift fast enough to keep up. It also sounds like the manual just isn't that great in this car "Shifter feels a little vague in that I rarely trusted my 2-3 shift, yet it always went in."

I think this thing need taller gear ratio's with a lower peak torque than what its has to ever compete with the pdk.

gtrguy2012 says:

That Price is a F**king joke right?
___________________________________________________________________________________

I agree, Porsche's are WAY overpriced. That is why the company is one of the most profiting car company's in the world. I think that if they made a 160k Nissan GT-R it would beat the Turbo S's ass!

It's all about the launch, baby.

The PDK was 0.7 seconds faster in the first 60 MPH.

IL should test them both from a roll to see what real world acceleration would be like.

Too bad IL didn't test one of these Porsches with the ZR1 or Z06. Either one will put the Porsche to shame. Don't believe me? Just compare the numbers in this article with the Z06 numbers in the Z06 vs. gtr article. Vettes eat gtrs and Porsches. They just can't keep up.

Vettes Rule!

That price is a bit much for me to handle. At 100k I'll be shopping for something more amusing... And likely spending more.

Although the price is ridiculous the car looks unflappable as its composure seems to be top notch. There are no unecessary body motions when the car changes direction and under hard braking the suspensions anti-dive geometry keeps the nose from smacking the pavement. It seems to be efficient in the way it applies its power as its performance numbers are superb for something with a near 400hp naturally aspirated 6. With all that said, this level of refinement does command a price!

Zr1 man, nothing against the Corvette but given the Z06 in that comparison wore Super Sport (near race tires) it should beat the GTR. The odd thing is the GTR's pace wasn't that far off and it has a much worse power to weight ratio, more weight total (about 500lbs heavier!) and a much higher level of parasitic power loss due to the AWD. I'd like to see the GTR with those Super Sport tires.

And before you say I'm biased, I'm not a huge fan of the GTR or the Vette as I really prefer tactile performance/refinement over numbers based cars.

Even though I'm not a fan of DCTs (PDKs, whatever), this is about as even a comparison as you can get that shows their superiority for acceleration. Both 7-speeds, both with near identical gear ratios. The DCT gets a perfect launch and jumps ahead, and then pulls another tenth of a second on each shift. I'm sure that if the Porsche manual was a little better (as someone else mentioned, uncertain gates, and power reduction on shifts) that the diff would be less, but there's no beating a DCT in a straight line. Sucks because that mean more and more cars are going to go this way, but at least Porsche still offers a choice. Kudos.

Different days different drivers = pointless comparison.

If Porsche implemented a clutch delay valve (CDV) on their new 7-speed, I'm gonna be shocked. I thought those were universally recognized as the bane of performance driven manuals. Easy enough to fix though.

It also sounds like that could be exacerbating the time differences. With this much HP, weight, aerodynamics, and a R/R launch advantage, the Porsche should be pulling a bit better than a 12.7 quarter mile - so there's something going on there.

....

In the videos - wow that car rotates beautifully.

...

Re: the PDK vs. Manual argument - at what point does driving fast justbecome a video game where we push a few buttons and hold something down? At what point are people happy that they themselves are no longer the determiner of whether or not their car is fast?

I mean really - is PDK and similar technologies for street use just the automakers recognizing that most drivers are secretly ashamed of their own performance capabilities and want LESS to do with holding back their car?

It's awesome technology, don't get me wrong, but what's the difference between celebrating this and celebrating getting a car that has the 'ring programmed into it and uses GPS to self-steer, throttle, and brake around the 'ring?

Porsche Carrera's have always been about tactility, driver's experience, and finesse. Less so about straight-line speed or technological interference. This to me rings the first death knell of the Carrera being a driver's car, as I'm sure now the number of 911's ordered with an automatic is about to skyrocket.

I just want to thank Porsche for offering a real manual transmission. I have no doubt that the PDK will outsell the manual by a significant amount, but Porsches have always been for those who value the driving experience. Any guy/gal in the PDK will be faster than me in the manual. That's okay because I'm driving, not racing.

I am not surprised by these results at all. Launch Control and Dual-Clutch Automated Manuals are the best for performance, period. If you want feel, maybe not.

Those of you complaining about the price of a 911 clearly have never driven one...

The GT-R and 911 are two different cars. The GT-R is faster than 99.9% of the cars on the road. Whether $60k TT-RS or $400k Aventadors. Does that make any of those cars not worth their price because they can't beat the GT-R or ZR1? No. They just offer other things as part of the equation as well.

What makes the 911 so expensive is that it offers the complete package. Some of you see a 911 as an expensive GT-R/Z06 alternative but I see it as an affordable alternative to a 458 Italia, R8, Vantage, SLS AMG, MP4-12C, etc.

A Z06 or GT-R offer JUST performance over a 911. Thats it.
The 911 is more luxurious, better built, uses better materials, has more features, has more style, has more panache/character, is more elusive (not exclusive), and much more.

Porsche sold almost 7,000 911's last year with an average transaction cost of $115k.
Nissan sold just over 1,000 GT-R's last year with an average transaction cost of $85k.
Chevy did sell about 12,000 Corvettes last year but had an average transaction cost of $58k.

No matter how fast the GT-R and Z06 are, they will never be a Porsche 911.

For me, if I had $100k-$120k to spend on a car like any of these, a Z06/ZR1 or GT-R wouldn't even be on my radar. I wouldn't even consider them. For me, I would consider;
- R8 4.2
- 911 S
- Vantage V8
- C63 AMG Coupe Black Series

I would rather have a Cayman S BE, M3, RS5, C63 AMG Coupe, Evora S, TT-RS, or the like over a GT-R or any Corvette.

What is the axle ratio and 1-7 gear ratio for both?

@hooklyn - what you wrote is exactly why most people don't like Porche drivers.

Signed,
A former Corvette owner ;-)

FYI - I am impressed by how effective the PDK tranny is in this car. Just imagine what kind of performance GM will get out of Corvettes and CTS-Vs when they finally offer a similar tranny.

Well, for over $4000, that PDK ought to do something good, thank goodness.

And finally some decent numbers for the price and for something that is a sports car.

The 0-60 of 4.6s, 12.7s at 113mph for $100K just didn`t cut it.

It does deliver good braking,grip and slalom numbers!

And finally a decent interior! The old one was very poor for something that expensive, at least for me.

The PDK car is only 394 bhp/325 lb*ft ...and it can pull a 3.9 "0 to 60"...and seriously, a 12.0 sec quarter mile?

I remember the 2011 GT-R was only 2/10ths of a second faster in the quarter with almost 100 bhp/torque more. This is only a regular Carrera S...what are we looking at when the Turbo makes its debut?

I didn't even read the article, I flat out wouldn't care about an Automatic "sports car".

Save the manuals!

So, this car with a few options is more expensive than the 997 GT3 was at launch? I get it's just as capable, but this is supposed to be the cheapest of the 911s.

+1 lostboyz

While a 0.7 sec gap is huge at this level, I'll consider it a "more relvant" test when it's the same day and same driver. Though I wouldn't expect that gap to close completely (Porsche's own conservative testing shows the PDK is clearly quicker), I would expect a narrower lead than what IL obtained in their results.

In the end, all this shows is you can launch better when the computer does it for you. Sure it works well down at your local 1/4-mi dragstrip on a Friday night (impressing some corn and Miller Lite fed 200-lb 'babes'). But it would reek of boring the other 99.999% of the time on the open road. So "meh" to the PDK.

Can you really say any more "there's no replacement for displacement.". This little 3.8L 6 with an automatic will beat the mighty Camaro ZL1 in the quarter mile. Of course the 911 holds an ever so slight weight advantage ;-)

What's it like to live with a 7 speed manual. That just sounds like a lot of shifting.

@ lmbvette

So because the car is better and happens to cost more, people don't like Porsche drivers...

I don't think Porsche drivers care...

Avg. Household Income
911 Owners - $310k
GT-R Owners - $200k
Vette Owners - $115k

...

And for what its worth, C&D got a 3.6 second run to 60 and 11.8 second 1/4 mile out of a 991 911 S PDK...

It beat a Z06 Z07 and GT-R in a recent comparison test of theirs...
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-chevrolet-corvette-z06-vs-2013-nissan-gt-r-vs-2012-porsche-911-carrera-s-comparison-test

@legacygt: for the most part, you'll be in the 6 gears and the 7th is really only useful for high speed long distance cruising. At that point you'll almost be lugging the engine.

My stance is that the PDK is probably a better idea for people who live in places like CA. After that post about a 45 minute drive for 7 miles of commuting I can't imagine anyone being happy with a manual in that kind of condition. MTs are great for everything except traffic jams.

Comparing a Porsche 911 to a Corvette would be no different then TRYING to compare these cars;

- M3/C63/RS5 to Mustang/Camaro/Challenger
- X5M/ML63/Caynne Turbo to a Grand Cherokee SRT-8
- S8/S63/Alpina B7/XJ Supersports to a 300 SRT-8

Sure, they all accomplish similar feats/tasks but it is how they do it that makes the difference. Its in the details.

And for me, IF spending $100k+ on a car, I want the attention to detail to be at the utmost. I want everything to be at the utmost, not just one or two things.

@duck87: I never understand this gripe about MT in traffic. With time it becomes a second nature and you don't even have to think about it. You still need to manipulate a gas pedal. If you can handle that, I bet you can handle clutch.

@ hookyln

Car & Driver has an obvious boner towards Porsche. Every comparison test that they conduct with a Porsche in it, the Porsche wins. The "objective" scores that they derive from their testing are just laughable, and C&D are experts at tweaking the scores around to their liking to make their favored car win, every time.

@legacygt

Considering the 7 speed manual 911 was still in 3rd gear at over 110 mph, I'd say that driving it around town would be exactly the same as driving a 6 speed. The extra gear is just there for fuel economy.

@duck87

Slow moving traffic barely goes faster than 20 mph, so you could stay in first gear the entire time and never have to shift. Am I wrong?

wow, the PDK really out does the manual from a stand still. not that surprising that it won, but it wasn't even close.

have never driven a Porsche and am not a race driver and/or uber wealthy. that said, I'd happily pay for the $100k Carrera S with my own money if I could afford it. the car is beautiful (subjective) and has amazing performance, including gas mileage. an incredible all 'rounder and daily driver. I'd take the manual despite (or because of) not being a race driver.

+1 lostboyz - different days, different drivers = comparison is not accurate

+1 higcorners - once you drive a manual for a few years it is second nature. My buddy once told me that he rode his sport bike from St. Louis to Miami in a single stint. I asked him if his body hurt and he responded, "Whenever I started to ache, I just focused on the ride."

Whenever I'm stuck in traffic (car or bike), I focus on the machine and the ride / drive. For those that don't want the "inconvenience" of "having to shift" (traffic or no), then you have automatics abound from which to choose. I prefer to row my own (motorcycle or car) and enjoy the entire experience. And I'm glad there are a few car makers who still provide manuals for us folks.

Kevin

The line is still as clear as ever, because it isn't about the numbers. I don't drive for living, nor do I drag for pink slips. I drive for enjoyment, and the manual is still more enjoyable.

That's why for me I have to say: manual over PDK, and Porsche over Chevrolet, any day.

YMMV

@higcorners: Right, but pumping that left pedal and shifting between neutral, first and second gets really old, really quick. It doesn't help that there's no torque converter to allow for some level of crawl either... you either slip the clutch or you try your best to coast in neutral when things are moving at 1-3 mph. It's not the same as easy as sitting in an automatic car and lightly tapping on the brake once in a while.

This gets even worse if you've got a stiff clutch.

@lt1boy: Actually most of the cars I've owned have short gearing, so I could be in 2nd by 20 mph. Or else the engine could be at pretty high revs. The main concern is stop/go traffic. I've rarely ever seen traffic that moves at 20mph on a freeway that doesn't eventually stop.

I'll add in my $0.02 and say that I'd own the 911 over the GT-R, but I would still get a Z06 over the 911. The 911 is a much better all-rounder car (not to mention it has a far better interior and build quality than either of those vehicles). It is overpriced though, as the depreciation is pretty hideous in the used car market.

@ duck87

911's hold their value REALLY well compared to the GT-R and certainly Corvette. It could be regional or geographical though.

at IBVETTE,

"FYI - I am impressed by how effective the PDK tranny is in this car. Just imagine what kind of performance GM will get out of Corvettes and CTS-Vs when they finally offer a similar tranny."

your comment says a lot.

also, youre a FORMER vette owner. That also says a lot.

The 7spd stick is interesting but I would wait for a next gen tranny.

Also didnt IL just comp an 991s vs an R8 and the 991 had really slow #'s?

This should be proof to everyone that these #'s vary widely!!!!

Pretty impressive performance from the PDK - and the car in general - but I'd still get the manual. I'll take driving enjoyment over numbers any day.

@hooklyn

"And for what its worth, C&D got a 3.6 second run to 60 and 11.8 second 1/4 mile out of a 991 911 S PDK..."

It is not worth much because C&D ALWAYS quote 0-60 with a 1ft rollout, so it is not the REAL 0-60.

Note that Edmunds got 3.7 with the rollout. That is close enough to 3.6 to be called within experimental error or variations due to track conditions for me.

@ agentorange

No they don't. I have personally done testing for them. That is not true.

From the sounds of it, I/L didn't use the PDK Launch Control. You can't do a 1-foot rollout with LC activated. It only works from a standstill. Just like C&D did in their testing.

@arctica6

"I think this thing need taller gear ratio's with a lower peak torque than what its has to ever compete with the pdk."

lolwut? you do realize it's the same car, same engine, same gear ratios. only difference is manual vs pdk.

by your logic, put a diesel engine in there with it's torque-richness at low low rpms or whatever it is the diesel fanbois cream their pants about and it will be faster

now we just need a mustang fanboi to extoll the virtues of replacing the rear suspension with a solid rear axle

for real people, the PDK is killing it with 12 flat at 116 quarter mile on 91 octane and high density altitude. but the real story is the sick slalom, braking, and skid pad

can't wait for car and driver to "test it at 11.3 at 127" after applying their "proprietary correction factors"

@ cynic783

C&D got a 12.0 @ 118 out of the car. 3.6 to 60.
R&T got a 11.8 @ 121 out of the car. 3.6 to 60.

And there were no corrections done. That is only done very infrequently under extreme environmental conditions.

@hooklyn

"And there were no corrections done. That is only done very infrequently under extreme environmental conditions."

okay, and you know this how, exactly?

my numbers were there for exaggeration. it's well known now on the forum that claimed 0-60 time from C&D, R&T, and MT are false. they are 0-60 after a free 1 ft of untimed acceleration (with 1ft rollout)

that said, I think their published results are certainly possible depending upon conditions. i think you could also get worse numbers if you tested in Denver on 87 octane with a heavy driver. funny, we always seem to get numbers with the others as if they were performed at sea level on a perfect low-humidity day using 1/8 tank of 94 octane fuel and a horse-jockey for a driver

Hooklyn you are outright lying or you're too stupid to understand the term rollout (and you clearly didn't read the test here which notes they used LC). You've tried pulling this crap before and we linked specific statements from Car and Driver themselves about their testing technique. They use rollout in the 0-60 testing and they perform corrections. This is irrefutable unless you want to call their own articles and statements from their employees false. You're delusional to come back here and try and pretend you weren't so thoroughly refuted and try it again.

You have such a crush on C&D because they let you drive some cars once and that, combined with your europhilia (or maybe we can just call you a euro-weenie), is getting downright ridiculous and tiresome. Grow up and expand your experiences. You might just find you like a lot more than what you're limiting yourself too. We all slip into brand fixation every once and awhile, especially when young, but you're out of control.

@hooklyn,

"You can't do a 1-foot rollout with LC activated. It only works from a standstill."

As others have mentioned I think you're failing to understand the definition of "rollout". It is tested from a standstill and can absolutely be measured with launch control activated.

I have personally done testing for C&D. That is how I know what their techniques are.

I am not saying that they NEVER use a rollout or that they correct for environmental conditions. What I am saying is that those are done in very extreme circumstances.

A mag only gets a given car (especially a car like a 911) for a very finite amount of time. They have to test it and then give it back. IF the time frame they have to test the car doesn't permit normal operability conditions, they will make exceptions by correcting the information or altering testing conditions.

This is not done with 99%+ of their testing.

Again, I know this because I personally know several of their employees and have done testing for them myself.

And as far as my experience. I test drive cars for hobby. I am 26 and have driven well over 100 cars in my lifetime. I have plenty of experience with many different cars from many different brands. I will never turn down an opportunity to drive anywhere. Even a 1998 Corolla or a 1993 Lotus Esprit or a 2010 911 Turbo S. Whatever it might be.

My 'Europhilia' is just something I happen to share with the majority of the professional automotive community. We like the same things in cars. That is why I like C&D so much. I personally agree with many of their opinions. No harm in that. Its my money and I can spend it how I choose. But I want you to keep in mind that if you can't prove something, it isn't true.

@ church123

When I used the LC function on a 997.2 Turbo S, it did not allow for a 1-foot rollout. Neither does the LC function on my GTI. You can only engage the LC function with one foot firmly on the brake and the other on the accelerator at WOT. Then, upon releasing the brake even slightly, it launches. You would not have the ability to do a rollout and then accelerate with LC.

When testing we even TRIED to induce a rollout and could not. It was 100% from a standstill or nothing at all. The LC system would disengage if not done correctly. And in the Turbo S (which hits 60 in 2.7 seconds), it launches so quickly that you can barely even hang on let alone try to induce a rollout before WOT.

But remember guys, I am only saying all of this from personal experience, so what do I know???

@hooklyn

lol are you for real or just don't get rollout?

there's nothing about LC or any other launch technique that would make it "incompatible" with rollout. it simply means rolling for 1 foot of untimed acceleration before tripping the timer at a drag strip.

please re-read:

http://www.insideline.com/features/how-we-test-cars-and-trucks.html

@hooklyn,

"You would not have the ability to do a rollout and then accelerate with LC."

You are still failing to understand what rollout is. It does NOT mean a rolling start, it means you get one foot of untimed acceleration. The car is still launched from a dead stop but the first foot of travel is not counted.

You could time 0-60 with and without rollout in the SAME acceleration run. Again, there is no difference in the launch.

Ugh... Hooklyn, you fail to understand what rollout is. Please try again.

hooklyn, you don't even know what you don't know. You're so damn sure that you know more than everyone else that you see less than a eyeless fish at the bottom of the Mariana Trench.

Rollout is defined as the distance it takes to for a car to clear both staging beams after launch at the dragstrip which then starts the timing system. This distance normally requires the car to roll approximately 1 ft from its original starting position (give or take depending upon tire size, where the car was originally staged in the beams, etc.). This is why auto mags like C&D use a 1-ft rollout methodology and why IL posts both true standing start and 1-ft rollout measurements. Most major timing systems support this, including the Racelogic equipment that almost everyone runs today including Car and Driver. I have a pretty nice Racelogic setup myself and it will record both all this data for you on a single pass. If you are serious about wanting to test cars, I suggest you save your pennies and buy one post-haste.

Furthermore, they do correct for environmental conditions. An environmental correction factor is completely useless if you don't apply it consistently at all times. By definition, if you are correcting to a standard atmospheric condition, then the less extreme the variation from that standard (be it J1349 or something earlier) the smaller the correction will be to the point where if you test at standard, the correction will unitary. You see, it's self correcting (rolleyes).

As for you "doing testing", let's clear this up. You were invited to bring your car to a test of transmission types. They let you drive it for some of the testing and even let you drive some other cars. You are not a professional tester. I'd wager good money that you didn't work the timing equipment short of perhaps pressing a button - how could you when you don't even know how it works? I also know for damn sure that you didn't down load the data, perform any atmospheric corrections and publish the stuff, because you don't understand that either. And I'll bet you didn't get paid for it. So let's dispense with saying you test cars for Car and Driver. It's about on par with the high school freshman who kissed his cousin on vacation saying he's got a hot college girlfriend who he had sex with, only she's somewhere on the other side of the country, but she'll be coming to visit on spring break, I swear. Would've thought a 26 year old would have gotten past that sort of behavior.

Oh, BTW, valets take lots of cars on test drives to. Doesn't mean they know jack about evaluating a car in any way shape or form. And don't forget that your C&D buddies also get all teary eyed about the Accord, Miata, the Corvette and other cars - I think a few of them even own Mazda3s. I wouldn't call them europhiles. But even if you do, that, a pulse and 4 limbs is about all you do share with them. Someday you're going to look back on these years and wonder how a guy your age could have been so ignorant and close minded about something he loves.

Go buy a spec Miata, get thee to a racetrack and repent!

It's still amazing you people have this chatter about Porsche's being high priced. You get what you pay for. We won't mention his name but we all know his stats are all about track times. 0-60 Vettes get smoked plus 1/4 mile times as well. And we all read the car and driver issue and they both got smoked by Godzilla. Porsche makes an amazing sports car built for the demanding buyer and it shows in all the options they offer. Nissan,Chevy needs to offer this type of program for their sports car. Plus GM needs to get a better build for the Corvette. Nissan is losing it's way on build with the 2013 model.

You can keep that half second or so. I'll never buy an automatic. My neighbor bought a Corvette. As a 911 owner, one must check out the competition. I was excited to see it because I have respect for the Vette. My Dad has one. Then I noticed that automatic transmission. My excitement turned to disappointment He asked if I wanted to go for a ride. I said no. I have to go cut my grass.

LOL @ hooklyn, comprehension fail

-Rod

If I spent $130K on a Carrera, I'd be so disgusted with myself that I'd key my own car.

If I spent $130K on a Carrera, I'd be so disgusted with myself that I'd key my own car.

I would have been really interested in a few lap times with both transmissions. I find this a little more revealing that looking at launch times alone. I'd be interested in reading how the PDK performed in both fully automatic mode and in manual shift mode versus the 7 speed manual on a road course.

Not really sure the point if this test.
Are dual clutch transmissions faster than manuals: YES (there test done - no need to even drive a car)

Now, realize that timed speed is not the end all be all to a car and how it appeals to the driver.

flea7,
Not sure what to make of your post.
Giving up the chance to drive a Corvette? Really?
Pick A, B or C
A) Doesn't own a Porsche, but does drive a Cirrus LX (top of the line model).
B) Afraid to drive the Corvette because they might like it.
C) Look up snooty Porsche owner in the dictionary and see your picture.
Such an easy way to verify that you made the right choice buying your 911.

At the current price hike of the 911, the Cayman looks like a bargin. I understand the engineering involved with the 911, but the price is too steep for the first model in the 911 family. Germans get away with the price hikes and charging for basic items that are standard on many cars that are standard.

911 don't stand out in many urban areas. I live in Dallas, and I can see a 911 almost anywhere I really look, if I'm on the right side of town. Caymans almost look like the pretty rare member of the Porsche family, and that's saying a lot from me, given I've been a 911 fan for years.

I don't understand people's issue with Porsche charging for things that are standard on other cars.
Would you rather them make them standard and just make the base price higher?

If you don't like the price (or, like me can't afford it), don't buy it. But, as long as Porsche's are purchased, and they are, Porsche will ask the maximum amount the market will bear.

@ Hooklyn-

WTF are you trying to prove here? You do the *exact same* thing every time. Remind us that VWAG is the best (in your opinion...although you portray it as a fact) while condemning *anyone* else who likes *any* other car make, spit out (C&D) numbers, and remind us that you had your picture taken--er did performance testing--for C&D in your fabulous, world beating 8 year old GTI. I stopped counting after 4 times "I did performance testing"....BLAH! GET OVER YOURSELF! Now you're being condescending by throwing fancy words in there to attempt to prove your superiority? "Elusive" was a good one, BTW. Just because we like Chevys, pushrods, and displacement doesn't mean we are idiots. It means we ALL HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS!!!!!! We don't care how right you think you are; just like I can't convince you that you're the EPITOME of a ridiculous, know-it-all, biased fanboi, you're not going to convince me I'm an idiot because I'd choose something else other than a Porsche! I like Porsches too, BTW. But I'd buy a Mercedes. In my OPINION (do you understand what that is???), an SL has way more luxury, prestige, exclusivity, and soul than a 911. Spit out all your bullsh!t numbers (with the bullet points); I don't care. No one else does either.

GET OVER YOURSELF! Please! Bring something more to this forum than your bullsh!t!!!!

Not so fast...

If you have the automatic you're probably into "mash and go"...which means you probably won't turn the TC off.

So 4.9 with the auto and TC on...I'm assuming that launch (3.9, 0-60) control turns off the TC.

Specifically related to the drag strip (the Porsche has 'other' qualities) 4.9 is fast, but not $130k fast.

@AJT: It doesn't sound like you've had much experience with a recent 911 and SL considering your opinions.

I came back from driving the 991 Carrera S today before its official launch (apparently I'm the first non Porsche employee/automotive critic in the US to do so) and can confidently say it has more character, tactility, responsiveness, and purity than even the previous 997 generation vehicle and way more than any R230 SL I have driven (which is the entire lineup besides the 65). The new 911 is worth its asking price in that it is the jack of all trades, I can confidently say that it now has the ride, cruising, and coddling abilities of the best German luxury cars while keeping its purity in controls and feedback not to mention the beautiful exhaust note which is sonorously funneled into the cabin when the car is placed in sport mode and 997 GT3 handling numbers in the basic model. This new version of the 911 really offers a grownup package in a slightly larger car while offering a driving experience that few modern cars can match.

@ hooklyn

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!

You don't even understand something as common knowledge as ROLLOUT, and yet you come here touting "I've driven hundreds of cars for years! I used to test cars for Car & Driver, so I know more than you! Blah blah blah my opinion is better than yours! This car is better because I say it is!"

Your ignorance, is unfathomable. You have zero credibility in anything you say from now on, or have said. ZERO!

Thank you for the laugh.

@ Panamera

I'm just voicing an opinion. I have no doubt the 911 is the perfect sports car; I just would rather cruise in a SL. It's not right or wrong; just what I prefer. Everyone else isn't "wrong" for what they'd like for a sporty/sports/gt car for 100+k, which is what's being inferred here. You want a Corvette? Great. Huge fan of GM powertrains here. Porsche? I'm all about precision. Mercedes? Unbeatable style, cachet, and soul (IMO)....especially an SL..

"hooklyn says:

08:23 AM, 02/ 1/12

@ lmbvette

So because the car is better and happens to cost more, people don't like Porsche drivers...

I don't think Porsche drivers care...

Avg. Household Income
911 Owners - $310k
GT-R Owners - $200k
Vette Owners - $115k "

@hooklyn - Thanks for proving my point!!! :-)

FYI, my household income is well above the "Average 911 Owner" and I don't like Porsche guys. You have re-affirmed my belief. Thank you! ;-)

I'll continue to drive my "lowly" Corvettes and my "non-classy" CTS-V's.

after driving the new 991, i think its the best Car in the 100k area. I liked better than these cars I've driven:

Vette Zr1 & Z06
Audi R8 4.2
Nissan GTR '11 model
Maserati

If you judge someone based on the car they are driving, you, my friend, are the biggest d-bag there is.

There is no such thing as a Porsche guy or a Vette guy. There is only the fact that they are driving a particular car for any number of personal reasons (preference, financial, reliability, practicality, etc.). You might be surprised to find out that many "XXXX" guys would happily be "YYYY" guys if they had the money for multiple cars, could trade cars with frequency, or just plainly could afford something "better".

*yawn* with a design like that I don't care if the car made 500hp, which it should.

And let's be honest...you can't justify that price. Porsches sell on their name. Every 991 has been spoken for at Livermore Porsche so they can pretty much charge what they want and get away with it. Practical are you KIDDING ME? I'm a fan, but I'd rather take an M3