Toyota Already Planning More Powerful, Supercharged TRD 86?

So, apparently, this supercharged version will be right in the sweet spot for other sporty cars-- 35K and up. Disastrous.
Again, who will want this car at these prices? Especially if it has a Scion badge. And as for the Subaru, the BRZ with a supercharger will cost the same as a WRX STI.

Mike, your perspective brings up an interesting point. It's amazing how humanity has coped with <200hp cars for what, a century (imagine, 100 years of boring).

It also amazes me that America defeated facism with a 62hp vehicle (the CJ Jeep); yet people need 270+hp in their midsize sedans to make a Wal-Mart run.

The car is perfectly fine with its current weight and power but it's nice to have options for those people who MUST have 250+ hp...

Nothing wrong with having options as long as they still offer the car as it is: a basic, pure old school light weight fun to drive RWD sports car.

I agree with all of the above but having the option is nice. It is not very likely to be high volume though... anyone remember this?

http://www.insideline.com/scion/tc/2006/follow-up-test-2006-scion-tc-supercharged.html

But then the Mazdaspeed Miata/Protege were pretty cool cars, even though they were both decent in basic forms.

I guess we have to please those folks who only rate cars on 0-60 performance and don't understand that there is more to an enthusiasts car. 200 hp is more than enough if you know how to employ it. Just ask any seasoned Miata racer who beats up on 500hp cars every weekend.

So Toyota is going to develop a supercharger for an engine they don't build? Seems like a turbo would be a better fit since Subaru has been turbocharging (thier) boxer engines for awhile now.

I think this is cool. Not suprising that a higher uotput variant is coming out, but I expected a Turbo. This could be where these cars start to differentiate themselves from each other. Toyota can have the Supercharged TRD version, and Subaru can have a turbocharged STI version. At that point I would expect pricing to differentiate as well.

Why would Subaru need to figure out an aftermarket solution of their own?

It's the same engine. And I mean the exact same engine. They didn't even switch the engine cover; it comes with both Toyota and Subaru brands stamped on it (though ironically not 'Scion').

If Toyota/Scion offers a bolt-on TRD kit through their dealers (or even the factory) I'm going to bet a bajillion infinity dollars that it'll work on the Subaru version too. Also, since the companies spent approximately $0.19 (yes, I meant 19 cents) differentiating the two cars why would they suddenly bother to go big now? Not saying they couldn't... but... if they haven't done so on more important things like bodywork, interior fittings, features, etc. ... well you see where this is going.

Yeah, it's not a turbo for Subie fanbois. But guess what? It's not AWD either. So methinks if they're willing to even consider the car in the first place with a Subaru badge that they'll cope with belt-driven forced induction as opposed to the exhaust-driven variety.

Personally? Meh. I think 200 bhp is plenty. But that's me.

This is the perfect application for a supercharger. A huge segment of buyers of this car are going to want to modify them... and rightfully so. The car needs a lot of help, especially with the outdated styling. But engine mods will be a big part of the upgrades. It's fairly simple to make very pronounced increases in HP when a car has forced induction.

"for people who don't understand the phrase 'conservation of momentum.'"

so half the people commenting on this blog?

"so half the people commenting on this blog?"

I think that's a conservative estimate...

in the past, Toyota has offered TRD superchargers sold aftermarket at the dealerships, but with warranties in tact if installed by a dealership. this is likely how it will go, unless some dealership decides to pre-build one and put it on the showroom floor for sale. a Subaru will likely not get the warranty, unless SPT rebrands it and sells it as their own, but it certainly will be the same thing.

Miata racers only race against each other on road courses otherwise they would get lapped all day long... autoX is something where power doesn't really matter, so its not saying much to support 200hp being plenty. It is all relative... for some people, they need 3 times that much just to feel sane because they are so used to fast cars. objectively, its not horrible, though. it should be adequate power to enjoy the car for what it is. Miata's are fun to drive despite being so slow...

As long as the gearing is right, the current power and torque to the wheels, per pound, should feel sufficiently quick (I've done the calculations versus my '05 Mazda 6s), but more is always welcome. How about 286 HP and 220 lbs-ft? As long as they kept weight gain below 150 lbs, that would have similar power to weight compared to an underrated 135i.

If you are a stupid American, who doesn't understand a sports car doesn't need 300HP to be great, Toyota has something for you too......
BD

it is just two different schools of thought in car building one is big power medium handleing the ohter is extreme handleing but medium power. depending on the course one will have the advantage and there are some racetracks configured to equilize cars with advantages in technical corners and cars with streightaway speed.

as for everyday driving 25k is a lot of dough and for me 200hp just is not enough even with the cornering prowress you would have to be very brave to see the limits of this car on the street. base genisis coupe has a 2.0 direct injected turbo engine good for 275 horse power the v6 mustang will be cheaper then this car and come with a 325 horesepower v6. with the track package of on either of those cars i think the handleing advantage would be moot ( by the time this boxer engine gets to 60 these two cars will be several car leangths ahead)

so far toyota has announced that it would be "under 30k" now adding say 4k to that and you have a car that COULD be ax much as almost 34k, there is a LOT of competition for that price

@ bluejuke,

Motor Trend has already announced that the BRZ will start at $24k and loaded at $27k so you can expect the FR-S to start lower than $24k.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-subaru-brz-price-starts-at-24000-and-we-have-the-detailed-specs-142245.html

Its not the 200 hp that concerns me, it's the 150 lb.ft that scares me...When I hit the gas I wanna go! I think a power adder would be great, but I still say 2GR-FSE and six speed make this a winner.

I think Toyota should give this thing some real horsepower. Something over 550 HP. That way it can compete with the gtr. That will drive the gtr fan boys nuts. It still wouldn't beat a ZR1 and I would never buy one, but it would pretty interesting to see Mizuno cry a little as a Toyota beats his precious gtr.

And another thing, don't you think a lot of these japanese cars all look the same? Compare the looks of these: gtr, Toyota 86, Scion FR-S, and the 2013 Subaru BRZ. They all have the same shape and lines and look very similar to me. Corvettes have a very distinctive look. Cool, sexy and mean all at the same time. I guess it just a matter of taste.

God Bless America
Be Proud. Buy American.

@zr1man - Dude, what the hell are you talking about???? Why bring a a gtr and zr1 into this discussion????? I know, I know.......look at your name, should've known....

Even if it makes dollars.....it doesn't always make cents......

As for the rest of us who haven't bumped our heads, seat time or a complete review of the stock production car w/out it being turbo or supercharged is needed before we start throwing out how much hp it will need. Personally, I'd like to see a higher torque number but they're the engineers so they must "hopefully" know something.

Time will tell, can't wait for the complete scoop on it.....

a TRD roots style supercharger kit makes PERFECT sense for this car. the torque curve, throttle response, and linear boost are ALL in line with the core philosophy of this car. its a purely mechanical form of FI that simply enhances the engine. it makes the car feel like it has more displacement. this will in no way ruin the car and what it stands for. sure it adds a bit of weight, but whatever, it's worth it.

I can't believe what I'm reading!

It doesn't need more horsepower? 200 horsepower is enough?!

If we had the same like-minded people as you running the auto industry, the Mustang would still have its archaic 4.0 V6 with 210hp! Corvettes wouldn't have factory installed superchargers!! The Bugatti Veyron wouldn't even exist!!!

I'm a driving enthusiast, and I'm enthusiastic about one thing - SPEED! How do you go faster around a track? Sure, you can lose weight and adjust your suspension. Or, you can do the obvious thing and ADD MORE POWERRRRR!

It's only a matter of time before there are GT86/BRZ/FRS cars running around with lsx engines....

Whether it needs it or not, is not the point. Toyota and Subaru are in business to make money. The question is can they sell it. Toyota's superchargers are usually down some on HP compared to turbos. I like the idea of one of each. Toyota can do a supercharger at 250HP and Subaru can turbo at 300HP. Something for everyone. I bet there are going to be lots of factory and aftermarket stuff for these cars. ;)

Lets face it, the Hyundai Veloster will be turbo charged with 208 hp so its a given the 86 can use a boost in hp and supercharging or dual turbo would be required. My wifes new Optima Turbo SX is fun to drive especially on the open roads. The power (274 hp ) is instant and impressive.

People will buy this car for its pure driving experience, not the power. Nobody is going to buy this car, to blast down the 1/4 mile at the local track. No, there are plenty of other options available for that. Supercharging will drive costs up, and interest down. If this thing breaks $30K, it's going to have a hard time selling in the same league as the big boys.

keep in mind this car is about the size of a miata, and that car did fine with just 170hp

This is supposed to be a cheap, fun to drive car. it's not a mustang fighter, it competes in a totally different class. If you add more power, add better brakes, add better suspension add...etc, then you've lost the point of the car.

It's actually not even so much about lap times (straight or curvy), but how well it feels to drive to make you a better driver.

I am so tired of auto snobs saying this is an "enthusiasts car" or a "real drivers car" I am glad toyoburu decided to make it. It seems like fun but come on this car will not be beating anyone who knows how to drive. It s not like people with mustangs or miatas or gti s or civic si dont all of a sudden "know how to carry momentum.l

@ windsor: obviously people aren't going to know how to drive a light RWD car if companies dont make them!! There are only a few small cars that have great suspensions like the S2K and the Miata. Just the fact that this has RWD, its lightweight and the year is 2011 is worth celebrating. Ive had several Toyota/Lexus cars that were just awesome btw so I like that they made this (you can see 2 here including a turbo IS300: http://blogs.insideline.com/readersrides/2011/11/jeremys-lexus-is300.html)

@ windsor: obviously people aren't going to know how to drive a light RWD car if companies dont make them!! There are only a few small cars that have great suspensions like the S2K and the Miata. Just the fact that this has RWD, its lightweight and the year is 2011 is worth celebrating. Ive had several Toyota/Lexus cars that were just awesome btw so I like that they made this (you can see 2 here including a turbo IS300: http://blogs.insideline.com/readersrides/2011/11/jeremys-lexus-is300.html)

I've never understood the purpose of this car, miatas, s200s, etc..... A sports car should go fast and have very good handling. A slow sports car is pointless to me. Exceptional balance doesn't make it fun to drive IMO. I NEED SPEED, TORGQUE, and GREAT SOUND! This car should at least be in the 5 sec range of 0 to 60 at a 25k sticker. I'll take a Genesis coupe instead. I know my opinion is in the minority though

@carguysc: I don't understand that mentality. Do you drive a slushbox? Because there's something called downshifting.

I guess you could argue that a lot of cars don't need 300, 400 or 500Hp, but ...