Subaru Teases BRZ Before Tokyo Debut

Amen, brother!

"headlights, foglights and some LEDs"? I imagine the FT-86 will also have these features. So I'm still waiting to see how the BRZ distinguishes itself.

"So I'm still waiting to see how the BRZ distinguishes itself."

It will have a Subaru badge instead of a Toyota/Scion badge. And somehow, that's not badge engineering. I don't get it either.

We have all seen the real car.

FT-86

@stovt001: Badge-engineering ---> one car company using xyz dollars to develop one car - then throwing another badge on it and pretend it is another.

This project? Two companies with different strengths brought their talents together, to invest in a project as a joint-venture which neither was willing to go at it alone.

@ acbayard,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

At least there is ONE person out there understand why I don't think the FT-86 duo are badge-engineered products...

Scion FR-S
Subaru BRZ
Toyota FT-86

Toyota and Subaru and Scion are selling essentialy the same car, this is badge engineering.

Visit Subaru of Indiana Automotive and you will see Toyota Camry being built in the same plant as Subaru Outback. Camry is still a Toyota despite being built by Subaru.

FT-86 is to BRZ as Chevrolet Nova is to Toyota Corolla.

BRZ is to FR-S as VW Routan is to Chrysler Town and Country.

The Fris and the Bruz.
These are Nickelodeon characters.

toyota matrix - pontiac vibe

same car, two companies, it's badge engineering

toyota owns scion and part of FHI which owns subaru, so it is even closer than just two different companies. They are going to be sold right next to each other, sometimes even on the same lots.

The majority of the Matrix/Vibe duo's mechanical and structural components came from Toyota, as well as various elements in the interior. All Pontiac did was nip tuck the styling and tweak the interior a bit and voilà, here's your Pontiac Vibe! Heck, the Vibe even had the same Toyota engines as the Matrix...

The FT-86 duo, on the other hand, was a collaborative design from the very beginning. Subaru brought in the platform, chassis tuning and the basic engine; Toyota brough in funding, styling design and tweaked the engine with the D4-S DI System. Then both companies got their own version due to different customer demography and they tested the heck out of it, on tracks.

So, if you want to call that badge engineer then go ahead, but in no way that this is on the same term as the Matrix/Pontiac, Euro Accord/TSX, Ford/Lincoln and etc... In other words, we are comparing Granny Smith apple with Fuji apple here.

@louiswei, GM and toyota have been sharing the corrolla and product offshoots of it for awhile now. It was as much if not more of a collaborative effort (which what is your source for who did what on the ft86/frs/brz cars?) as the toyota/subaru. It was also at least between two companies where one doesn't have a controlling stake in the other. Subaru is closer to being a brand of toyota than it is a mutual partner.

If the only differences between car X and car Y are the badge on it and some minor trim options, then it is badge engineering. I don't care if the companies collaborated or not, the end result is the same.

Let's get our facts straight here before calling granny smith is the same as Fuji...

Corolla and Matrix are pure and pure Toyota designs, GM just took it, did some nip tuck styling change, manufactured them in the NUMMI plant along side with the Toyota versions, which was a joint venture between GM and Toyota by the way, slapped on Geo and Pontiac badges.

Your analogy will work if Toyota designed the FT-86 by themselves and Subaru just took that car, nip tuck the styling and slap on the Subby badge. However, as we all know, that is simply not the case. Both companies WORKED TOGETHER on designing the car from the get go, nobody took other's design and just manufacture them in the same plant like what happened to Collora/Geo and Matrix/Vibe.

Calling the FT-86 duo badge engineering products is simply not fair to Toyota and Subaru when both companies' finest have put so much effort on bringing this car out.

"I don't care if the companies collaborated or not, the end result is the same."

Well... you don't care but some other people do care.

End of discussion I guess...

"when both companies' finest have put so much effort on bringing this car out."

As well as their children, and their children's children, given how long this thing is taking to produce.

"As well as their children, and their children's children, given how long this thing is taking to produce."

What the hell are you talking about? The FT-86 concept was shown at the end of 2009, which is only two years earlier... Do you have any clue what goes behind engineering a complex system like a car? Do you seriously think that they just slap parts together and magically everything will work at the first time? Do you know how much testing was done before they can pass all the internal reviews so they get the green light for production? Both Toyota and Subara are developed companies, they have processes, we are not talking about your mom and pop body shop here... It's not that unusual to take about 5 years to redesign a model, what do you think the designers/engineers do after they unveil the new 3er? They GO WORK ON THE NEXT ONE! Not to mention that the FT-86 duo here are brand spanking new, with as little reuse as possible.

Going back to the badge-engineering thingy, apparently the concept is a bit hard for some folks to comprehend so I'll use an easier example:

1. When you are in school, you did a project all by yourself, then your friend just took the report and change some wording and numbers then call it his own and turn it in.

2. When you are in school, you and your friend are on the same team working on the same project and both of you turn in the identical report for grading.

Does 1 equal to 2? If the answer is no then...

Meanwhile, the Pentagon is feeling much better about the F-35 project, and the consumers are getting identical cars sold with different badges.

That's all you got left? Just bitching about having too many choices?

Don't like the Scion, buy the Suby. Don't like the Suby, well... Scion dealer is down the road. Don't like both? No one is pointing a gun at your head...

Congratulations, you just defined badge engineering.

Seems like you are still not getting it but that's ok...