IL Track Tested: 2012 Porsche 911 Carrera S

Sounds like what everyone was afraid of basically.....

--computers in the gearbox (shift delay and no tire chirps??)
--electric steering is a downgrade
--yaw delay in a 911????
--tall gearing for mpg hurts accel (BD is right --- 4.6 is old news)

Great slalom and skid pad but the GT-R can do that too.

The feel is what makes a 911 special. Maybe not anymore.

-Rod

Wow, Dubs on a 911. I thought I'd never see the day. For the price, one could find a 997 Turbo, and not have issues with Vettes, or even my Evo 10.

Youll have to look at the automatic to see the truth. Also blackdynamite toyota ft-86 is supposedly priced around 23k and it will be a car that handles not accelarates. Same situation here although1.04 latreral grip is pretty crazy.

Dude, all you do is complain...
Do you know how fast 4.6 seconds is? I'm still clamoring for grip in my car as i pass 60 about 2 tenths of a second after that. Why don't you drive a car that fast before you complain 4.6seconds is slow.

Additionally, the race to 60 is silly these days. If you want a true comparison of these cars making 400+ hp then run them to 100 or 150mph. 60mph is won or lost in the first 60'.

I agree stoppre cars are getting so fast these days I truly beleive 0-100 ,will become the new standard.

0-60 doesn't really mean anything if you're talking about outright power. The taller gearing hurts, as does the vehicle launch (something that can be finicky in something with an engine in the back).

More indicative is the 1/4 mile, which at 12.7 sec @113.2 is pretty fast (the 1/4 mile is most indicative of a vehicle's speed). It's the best way to measure speed and quickness, and minimizes any driver error that is more evident in 0-60 times.

The "anti shift shock" is probably due to a clutch delay valve. Not really due to a computer....

I'm a cheap bastard and would never pay close to 100k. Then again, I always buy used when it comes to German cars. That's some crazy lateral acceleration though. And my gosh, silver is just sooo effing boring.

4-5 years ago, this same car pulled a 13 second quarter mile at I.L at 109mph and weighed essentially the same.

The new car is faster, more efficient, and exceeds it's previous performance numbers.

Complaints?

As Duck87 said too - the CDV is a common measure to protect clutch and drivetrain life and softens shifts. It's annoying to me but at least it's easy to remove.

The HP figure is 400 in the Porsche website,not 394.Also i think the torque isn't quite high as expected but too early to comment on the acceleration figures.A PDK example with launch control should be the right to test .

The Lotus Evora S at $10k less (loaded) makes a compelling argument with better steering and handling with similar if not better performance.

As underwhelming as the acceleration is (I've seen a $31k Mustang GT do 4.4), 1.04 on the pad with an engine sitting over the rear bumper is an epic achievement!
BD

They will sell every unit they produce, which is Porsche's goal. I just feel like if I'm dropping $100k on a car it should feel more "special". I just don't get excited anymore when I read about the newest and greatest Porsche.

There are Porsche Boxters for under $10k. Those are fast enough for me.

Interesting. Porsche says the 350 hp 911 will run a 4.4 sec 0-60 and the 400 hp version will do the deed in 4.1 sec.

Looks like a 2013 GT-R offers way more performance for even less money.

Still want the Porsche experience? Buy used for much, much less than a new one.

these are definetly the slowest numbers ive seen outve a 911 S. i wouldn't be surprised if other testers get around 4 seconds from this engine with PDK considering the last generation was heavier. that being said, the skidpad number is unbelievable. I wonder what this gens GT3 RS will do

@sharvan456: 394 horsepower is correct under the US definition of horsepower. German companies cite DIN horsepower, which is not quite the same as the bhp unit used by the SAE in the states. To get the right number in bhp we must look at the official output in kilowatts, the unit they use during their dyno measurements. That number is 294 kW, which converts to 394 horsepower in North America and, I believe, the UK.

Porsche and others take liberties with the tolerance and sometimes cite the DIN number without correcting this, but the kW figure tells the tale.

This also explains why I cite 510 horsepower in my C63 AMG Black Series story, while the German press materials say 517 horsepower. They're talking DIN, but they don't say that. Again, go to kW and convert for the real story.

Hmm... Porsche's own numbers on their official website are different than yours... And I don't mean just engine's HP rating, but more like "0-60" numbers.

PDK will be much faster. The people who are going to buy this car don't care as much about the numbers as someone who buys a GT-R, two different types of people, two different types of cars.

All right, $105K estimated.

Amazing amazing grip as well as the stopping distance.
Slalom pretty good as well.

0-60 is on the slow side, but the trap speed is there showing this car ain`t slow. With the PDK and 1 foot rollout this car will do 4.0, 4.2 s easily. That is fast boys!

Automatic transmission wins once again and it will deliver the fastest times.

Sorry Ed.

As for people talking about the GT-R, as terrific as that car is, and we all know it, how amazing it is, give me the Porsche 911 Carrera S anyday, all day long.

I love how GT-R comes up in every friggin' high-performance car conversation. I don't dislike the car, as matter of fact I think it's a great achievement and I would like to have one in my fleet one day. However, it's kind of silly saying GT-R can do this and that with equal or less of the cost. If that's the case then why don't Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo just all close shops since GT-R is the default choice when it comes to performance.

Geez people, we are not playing Gran Turismo 5 here, the goal is not to get to the next level with fewest points possible. We are talking about that unique human-machine connection for everyone and there is no one car that will fit them all.

Hmm, I just looked at Edmunds test of their used 2002 Z06 on worn tires.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2010/06/2002-chevy-corvette-z06-track-tested.html

0-60 with rollout - 4.2
1/4 mile - 12.5@116.1
Slalom - 68.8
Skidpad - 0.92

Again, this was on very worn and aged tires. With modern rubber, the acceleration would be a little quicker and the handling numbers would clearly improve.

While the Vette is certainly lacking in refinement, cachet, etc. over the 911, the fact that you can buy a 10 year old Vette for $20k, put a few $$$ in maintenance and replacement parts and proceed to put the hurt on a $100k 911 is pretty damning. Interesting too that despite a similar power to weight ratio (especially after you take into account the change in power rating standards between the time the Vette was produced and now) the Vette was trapping 3 mph faster.

I really like 911s. The GT3 range (especially the latest 997.2 GT3) is one of my favorite range of cars ever. But I don't know that Porsche has done enough of the right stuff with the new model.

The point of mentioning the GT-R is that it shows what a company can do with 6 cylinders to achieve near physics defying performance.

As far as man-machine interface, you can make a very good case that the 911 is becoming much more of a GT car and that it's going backwards as far as man-machine interface. Something that the GT-R may already be but it has much, much more performance than an equally priced 911.

Again, if you want traditional Porsche performance and feel buy a used one. There are thousands and thousands out there to choose from at almost any price point.

A rear wiper on that thing?
Are you really going to worried about who is behind you?

I almost nearly ordered a c2s two weeks ago but didn't b/c I just couldn't justify paying 100k (200k here in Asia) for a weekend toy. This test confirmed the prudence of that decision. C/D just paced a M5 at 12 sec/122 for the quarter. Same price, lower g's obviously, but comes w/ bragging rights and seats four comfortably.

Agree w/ one of the posts above: The 991 sounds like it's gone soft. Let's hope the next gen gt3 will retain some of the rawness.

This 0-60 number means nothing. In a manual car 0-60 times depend on the driver, please test the PDK and see what the real numbers are. Porsche has always been extremely conservative with their acceleration numbers, I would be surprised if that has suddenly changed.

No one is cross shopping a brand new Porsche (maybe even any Porsche) vs a Corvette. As one poster stated, different strokes for different folks.
This does show how amazing new dual clutch transmissions and launch control contribute to straight line performance. A dual clutch Audi TTRS with just 350 or so HP can do 0-60 in under 4 seconds. Crazy. But that alone doesn't make a great sports car (though I would not kick a TTRS out of bed as they say).

Really, so no one would consider a Z06 Carbon vs. a 911 Carrera? 911 vs. Corvette has been a long term battle, at least in the US. But no one likes buying a $100k+ performance car and then having to hide from 10 year old plastic Chevys, or say, "But at least mine has a nice interior". Spending that much on a sports car better get you some serious performance chops. If Porsche is going to lose some of the tactility and driver involvement they've been famous for, they damn well better compensate with performance. Hell, doesn't a $120k Panamera crush this thing in pretty much every way while seating 4 in real luxury (albeit in a homely shell)?

Test drive cars. Buy the one you like. Who cares what the numbers say.
And does anyone really care that one car is 0.2 or 0.3 seconds faster to 60 than another.

IL comment section is getting really really boring - like I am looking into the mind of a 16 year old.
1. GTR can do blah blah blah.
2. I can make a used (insert car) do 60 in 4 sec for 1/4 price.
3. A four door super saloon can do 1/4 mile quicker...
Who gives a shit.

"IL comment section is getting really really boring - like I am looking into the mind of a 16 year old."

It's very possible that you are.

Regarding the 911 vs GTR
One is an true driver's car, now with newfound beauty to go with it's precision, and an epic 7-speed manual.......

And the other is a GTR
BD

1.04 lateral G - wow - for RWD that is impressive

@compressor

"does anyone really care that one car is 0.2 or 0.3 seconds faster to 60 than another"

For the 911, not until now. Yes yes, every new 911 has made purists whine about how the soul is lost and so on because there's ABS or it's not air cooled or whatever, so this one is nothing new in that way......

BUT the electric steering, the yaw delay, the shifter delay.....this is not the stuff 911's are made of. The 911 is supposed to be about precision, directness, mechanical purity. THAT is why Porsche guys don't care about 0.2 or 0.3 seconds.

But it sounds like this new 911 is more about fuel economy (EPS, tall gearing) and gadgets than that pure mechanical connection. If the 911 becomes just another fast luxurious GT car, it doesn't get that "but it's a 911!" free pass anymore. That's when 0.2 or 0.3 seconds start to matter.

-Rod

What's the point in opting for the manual transmission if you can't shift as hard as you want? It's obvious that this car handles. The acceleration well they can't make the base 911s too fast or else they can't justify the extra money for a turbo or a gt2 or a gt3 or a gt3rs or a gt2 rs. The price is not right but Porsche is going way up market and stuff is just expensive these days. As a complete package I don't see any owner regretting thier purchase (other then wishing they payer the extra $$ for this optional do-dad or gizmo) German manufacturers alcarte options is what really is wearing on my nerves. It may work in Europe but in America it just doesent work. Especially sense options rarely positively effect resale values.

Okay, I just don't see the value here. This car is priced in the ZR1 range and does not come close to ZR1 performance. Heck, it won't even keep up with a base Vette at half the price. If you look at the price / performance ratio the Vette is the clear winner. And in my humble opinion, the Corvette is a much better looking car. No, this car just won't cut it.

Why spend your money to create more German jobs? Let's keep the jobs in America and strengthen our economy. It's really in our best interest.

God Bless America

Be Proud. Buy American.

I have a GTR, and glad I didnt pay 100k for the carrera S. My previous car was a ZO6, and I loved it. I may be the exeption , but I did cross shop for a porsche. But in the end the Carrera S is the least bang for you buc out of all of them.
I agree 0-60 is out, 1/4mi or 0-100 much more meaningful.

-for those of you hating about this new 911, the solution is simple, you can purchase a 997 or an earlier model. that computerized driving that was revolutionized by the GTR that many despise seem to be catching up on most supercars these days. seems to be a matter when not if. just a matter of time.

-right now the new lambo, ferraris, maclarens, SLS AMG, aston all come in auto, the porsche 911 tubro s now only comes in pdk.

if you wanna enjoy and feel a car- get a manual
if you wanna push a car to the limits and play the numbers game- get the automatic-

-both GTR and 911 are very awesome cars,

-since im a younger driver, i plan to lease the gtr first followed by the 911 years later.

-i'm currently in the market for both, negotiating a lease for a GTR can be tough since there is a 36 grand markup in 2 dealers around my zip code. just cant get one for MSRP these days.

-i then plan on getting that 911 once i get older, with beer belly, bald head and everything else that comes with age. the perfect midlife crisis car.

love both the GTR and 911. both are intriguing in their ways.

-still in the market for the GTR- tough negotiating with these dealers to drop the 36 grand markup for a 3 year lease.

-plan to get that 911 later when i'm older- with beer belly, bald head, and everything else that goes with old age- the choice for my midlife crisis.

To everyone commenting on the "GTing" of the 911. Just drive it. It is ridiculous that people think this car is not as good as the previous version from one, I repeat, one test drivers opinion. Same thing with 0-60 times. Its one driver people on one given surface at one given temp at one given time.......

So is it better? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But to write it off based on a mag/online review is pointless.

As to the steering. maybe it lost some. But compared to what. Is it still better than the competition? Did it just lose to the 997? When you take someone else's opinion on a "feel" characteristic of a car, well I don't know what.

BTW - the original 911 was always a "GT" in the true definition of the term - A comfortable, long distance capable, practical sports car.

So when a 911 S is called a "GT' that is not a surprise.

I'll have issues when people start calling the 911 GT'X' models soft.

Wow for that kind of $$$, I'll buy a 370Z and a Ford Raptor and I'm covered! Don't get me wrong,this is a fantasic European Sports car, I'll still be dreaming of owning a 911 but that dream is fading, slowly...

@sharpend: Physics-defying is really kind of a stretch. The GT-R's AWD system, short gearing and boosted system is really doing a great job, but it's not really surprising since the STi and Evo have been following the same concept for some time now (just in smaller doses).

Compressor is right though, sometimes I have to wonder what people are thinking on these forums. If I wanted an everyday sports car, naturally aspirated, high revving, RWD, and offering a connected driving experience along with a high level of refinement, I would not be cross shopping this car with the GT-R.

Like I said in another post, it's kind of amusing that every performance car article has a rebuttle along the lines of "but Ford Mustang V6! But GT-R!" so on and so forth. You'd think that's all we'd be driving...

They’ve been saying for a while now, that their shifting to make the 911 more of a GT and the Cayman/Boxter more the pure sports car. All good points made, especially the arguments about the 0-60. Plenty of prospective pro football players that can run sub 4.4 40s or bench press 225 +30 times, but are slow and sloppy when running the 3 cone or shuttle drill (though the GTR does seem to do everything very well).

Also true, is that you’ll never see a Porsche guy cross shop a GTR or Vette. You’ll never see a BMW M guy cross shop a Benz or CTS-V, a Mustang guy shop Camaro etc. That being said, there’s always that one that does go over the “other side”. I was a hardcore Subaru guy, never would have considered an Evo until I actually drove one (and now I have one).

I give Porsche this: They made it light(er), more efficient, and more powerful, and more livable, and it looks classic 911.

It sounds delightful, and if I was in the market for a GT, I would take a hard look at it.

But for a sports car I'd rather have a blue Boxster Spyder than anything else ever (and save a TON of money on this too).

"It's very possible that you are."

!!!!+1000

The spec warriors are very passionate about cars they can never afford.

I am a little surprised. These are about the same performance as my 2008 LS3 Corvette. I would have thought the 2012 911 S would have offered a little more performance for it's $100K price tag....

To the people who say that people do not cross shop Porsche and Corvettes, you are 100% wrong. I do it all of the time. In 2008 I thought the Crovette was simply the better car ( seems it still is) It was faster, less expensive, handled more to my liking and I actually preferred the two tone leather interior of the Vette over the base interior of the 911 (Would never spend 7 grand on all leather in Porsche). The fact that the Corvette was about $40K less at the time was just an added bonus.....

@BD: You keep stating the same point. Do you not understand that testing 0-60 on a manual equipped car is irrelevant? It will vary considerably based on the driver and considering that this was a test car with an all new 7 speed gear box (and he stated he was making slow shifts), I doubt that the tester had enough experience with it to launch it perfectly. The PDK equipped car will unveil the true straight line performance of the vehicle and allows any random person who sits in the drivers seat to exploit that.

I will say it again, Porsche, traditionally, has been EXTREMELY conservative with their straight line performance numbers, I highly doubt that that has suddenly changed with this car.

@sranger: You sound like a biased owner justifying your purchase. I have never heard of or personally experienced a Vette interior that was of higher quality than a 911s or heard anyone, with rational facts to back it up, conclude that the vette is overall "simply the better car." Sure maybe it can keep up or even outperform performance wise, but, having experience with both vehicles, I would conclude that the extra $40000 is put to use in other areas such as safety, refinement, reliability, quality, etc. The Porsche is a well rounded product. It does everything well, the same cannot be said of the Corvette which is more of a one trick pony (being all out performance).

Maybe you were seriously cross shopping the two vehicles but, at least in LA, the two cars fit entirely separate demographics.

@panamera4

I think your own bias is showing through nicely. You seem to be trying really hard (and in vain) to justify the significantly higher price of the 911. People cross shop these two auto all of the time. I fail to see why that bothers you. They are both great performance cars... (I even currently own a classic 1968 911)

Also exactly what makes the Corvette a one trick pony?

1) It has equal or better straight line performance...

2) It has equal handling and car get around a road course at least as fast.

3) It gets better fuel mileage especially on the highway.

5) The coupe ( like mine ) has significantly more cargo room...

6) The Vette has three top options: Solid, Clear, or none ( In the same model )

7) The ride quality in the Vette ( Mine has the Magnetic ride option) is excellent and certainly on par with that of the 911.

8) The seats are equally as comfortable. I admit that the seat frames in the Vette could use an upgrade in strength. However, I am fairly tall and Mine is all the way back against the back panel and it does not flex like some have complained.

9) I am fairly tall 6'-4" and I found the Vette had more leg room for the driver.

10) Even though the Bose stereo in the Vette is not all that great. I tough it was better than the one in the 911. ( For the price both of these vehicles should have better stereos )

The 911 is a great car, but I fail to see how it is roughly $50,000 better. What exactly makes the Vette so far inferior in your mind in quality, safety, reliability and refinement? Any evidence to back up these opinions? I am sorry, but being more expensive does not qualify as evidence of being more reliable and safer....

Would everyone stop complaining about the price for once!

It's not that Porsche is going upscale, it's not that their prices are really going up, it's that US is bankrupt. Porsches are cheaper in Canada than they've ever been. They are priced steadily in most of the Europe.

When compared to any other place on Earth, US was the easiest place to afford great car. You had string currency, you got spoiled. Every mid-level manager with some brain could have afforded to buy Porsche. Every second housewife could have gotten Versace dress.

This is not the case in the rest of the world, even developed nations like Germany or Canada. $US lost a lot of value, imports are more expensive and they'll continue being more expensive until you reach parity with the world, and start looking at BMW 320, rather than M3, just like the rest of the world.

BMW M, AMG and Porsche will become stuff of dreams for working fellows, domain of rich, or at least working rich, rather than any moron with access to credit line...

"It's not that Porsche is going upscale, it's not that their prices are really going up, it's that US is bankrupt."

What reality do you live in? The EU is on the brink of collapse because of debt...the US' situation is bad but not nearly as bad. Years and years of socialistic cradle to grave benefits have crushed the economies of western Europe. The EU is done....a stinking wreck that a few smart countries stayed out of (Great Britain and others).

To Brownchicen: I live in So. Cal. Just got a GTR 3 wks ago. Wasn't easy was shopping around for a while. Just returned my leased ZO6, I loved it, was a blast. 3 yrs ago I was shopping btwn a zo6 & GTR, but the GTR was $10k above sticker, not going to do that. Sure enough 3 yrs later it's the same story. Finally found one for just $4k about sticker, black edition. Seen as much as $27k above sticker. Was also interested in zo6 or zr1 but since new model comes out next yr, current lease programs r pretty bad. Good luck.

@ the tall gearing comments.

non gt-series 911's have had tall gearing for a while now. My dad had an 03 996 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqGU_tJi8PU with 345hp x51 package and sensible 18in wheels) and 3rd gear when to nearly 100 mph (the new 991 rolls on dubs which raise the gear ratio). That was when 345 hp was considered a lot, hybrids were only for hippies, and Porsche offered stability control as OPTION on their sports cars, and it was not offered on the carrera GT. Clearly much has changed in the automotive realm since Bush's first term and the 911 may have gone soft, but tall gearing is not a change at all. Maybe gt3's have shorter gearing for quicker acceleration.

You don't really buy a Porsche for it's 0-60 time. You buy it for the driver input, the control the driver has over the car. With each new Generation a little bit of that is dying away, It's the same in other cars too. Take the BMW M3, it has so much nanny stuff that actually driving the car is way less fun. It looks like Porsche is following suit. The GT-R is all electronics, no real driver input, the new M5 actually puts engine noise over the stereo so that you actually feel like your in a beast. If you took all this crap out, the drive would be more enjoyable, and it wouldn't cost 100k for a decent ride. I will admit, I wouldn't buy the new Carrera, I would instead buy a (used) GT3 and actually enjoy what I'm in. Porsche as well as all other German car makers need to wake up, It's not about getting from point A to point B the fastest, it's how much fun did you have getting there.

@compressor

"Test drive cars. Buy the one you like. Who cares what the numbers say.
And does anyone really care that one car is 0.2 or 0.3 seconds faster to 60 than another.

IL comment section is getting really really boring - like I am looking into the mind of a 16 year old."

This.

@bodyblue

"The spec warriors are very passionate about cars they can never afford."

And this.

I'm always amused when I read comments like 4.6 0-60 is slow. The vast majority of buyers will never, ever see even that 4.6 with a manual transmission. The vast majority will never take their care out on a race course to use the vast potential these cars have. The vast majority will spend 99% of their time in the car using les than 70% of it's potential.

I suspect some highly skilled drivers will get 4.3-4.4 out of this manual. PDK will probably yield 4.0-4.1, but is that really the reason most people would decide between those two options? It's fantasy that sell cars of this caliper. We all enjoy it, but a couple tenths here or their really isn't a decision-maker for most semi-rational people.

All you porsche idiots can rant and rave and come with excuses for this car all you want but the bottom line is that his 400hp $90,000 "sports car" designed and built for performance is no faster than a 335i or 135i. For the record a 550i will run to 60 in 5.0 seconds a heavy family sedan this thing is a joke bottom line. All of sudden to you 0-60 isnt important when it comes to your favorite brand but others cars it is? get outta her with that THERE IS NO EXCUSE as to why 400hp sports car needs 5.0 seconds to get to 60 mpg that is slow in this class by far a 335i has 100 less horses and is no more than entry level luxury coupe and will blow the doors off this thing pity and so sad...