Toyota FT-86 Specs Leaked. 200 horsepower, 2,667 pounds.

That's kind of a low torque figure at high RPM. The horsepower peak is achieved pretty high too. Hopefully it's at least fairly free-revving, has a high redline (8000 pretty please), and sounds good getting up there.

weak. sauce.

Don't get me wrong I know power isn't everything but the torque is low and at a high rpm. Doesn't sound like a fun car unless you add F/I

The more that leaks, the more disappointed I get.

Agreed, the more leaks, the more MEH it becomes.

It looks like the specs of the old Civic Si. Big deal.

And if the weight specs are true, one of his biggest fans/troll, blackdynamite is already wrong, LOL
Oh, the fun is just starting.

+1 sideswiper. I was seriously considering picking one of these up (may still since the mod market is likely to be large and it'll be good for business). But 200 hp in a 2700 lbs package is so, so. That's only slightly better power/weight than a new Civic Si. Now, if the price is under $25k, cool. I'd take a RWD coupe over a FWD car any day even with a couple thousand dollar price premium. But if the price comes in closer to the $28k number that's being bandied about, it's simply too much money. You can stretch and get a Z, or if you want serious bang for the buck, a Mustang.

I'm hoping that Subaru offers a 280-300 hp turbo version for around $30k.

151 lb-ft of torque at 6600 rpm? Please tell me that's a typo, because that's worse than any DI engine that's come out of GM in the last couple of years.

This car is becoming increasingly meh. Sort of covers up the the sadness that was the Ve-slow-ster.

Here is one of the advantages of a turbo in a small displacement engine: The Cruze(1.4 liter) gets 148 lb ft of torgue at about 1800 rpm.

This is similar to the previous Civic SI (and Hondas in general).

I think most of us would be less grumpy if the weight was at the 2500 mark. On the other hand, it is 350-400 pounds lighter than the Cruze, which hits 0-60 in 8 seconds or a bit more.

The horsepower and weight are just about right for a fun little rwd coupe. The torque is very disappointing unless the curve is almost flat.
As long as I can pick one up for ≤ $22,000, It will still be a consideration.

All I can say is "Interesting." I'll keep track of this vehicle... This car might prove that you pay a premium for either High HP or Low Weight.

But regardless, it's automatically a competitor due to it's low weight. The transmission and suspension may not be able to handle high HP mods because of it. But a significant number of ppl will try... regardless.

It's going to need god like handling to over come it's relatively disappointing power numbers. Remember the next mustang's getting independent rear suspension. And that car with solid axel is already stupid fast on the track, be it drag strip or a real track.

Where the heck did you guys read that torque is 151 lb-ft of torque at 6600 rpm?

Obviously the HP is 200 @ 7000 RPM and torque is 205 @ 6600 RPM...

Also, regarding this comment: "That's only slightly better power/weight than a new Civic Si."

So a RWD coupe gets slightly better power/weight ratio than a FWD Civic Si is no big deal. Got it. Well, if that's the case, find me a RWD coupe less than 2700 lbs curb weight currently sold on the market. Based on the spec, the FR-S delivered the most import spec: WEIGHT, it is less than 2700 lbs as advertised. Now we have to wait and see if the price will be at $25k for at least the low-spec model.

For those who care:

Genesis Coupe 2.0T: 15.7 lbs/hp (3294 lbs)
Genesis Coupe 3.8: 11.1 lbs/hp (3389 lbs)
Civic Si: 14.3 lbs/hp (2877 lbs)
FR-S Low-Spec: 13.3 lbs/hp (2667 lbs)
FR-S High-Spec: 13.56 lbs/hp (2712 lbs)

Oh and by the way, neither Toyota nor Subaru promised more than "around 200 hp". So yeah, they delivered on that spec as well.

Louiswei,

If a motor is creating 200 horsepower at 7000 RPM, it's creating 150 lb-ft of torque*1. Likewise a car creating 205 ft-lb at 6600 RPM is creating 258 horsepower*2.

The 200 in parenthesis is newton meters, the metric unit of torque. Likewise, kilowatts are being used in parenthesis in the row for power.

*1 - (5,252 * (200 / 7,000) = 150.057)
*2 - (205 * 6,600) / 5,252 = 257.616)

Let's break out the archives. Who here in the peanut gallery called it and who was full of ****?

How demanding we have become, and how soon we forget the basics of engine design. When you get to the 100bhp/litre area with a normally aspirated engine 2 litre motor, the low end torque will always look sad compare to the horsepower number. No amount of trick cams can mitigate the lack of displacement. Not ten years ago such an engine would have been seen as the second coming with those numbers. The proliferation of turbo and supercharged engines and their juicy looking torque numbers have coloured the views of many, it seems.

This is a NA 2 litre sports car, and to go fast it will have to be driven. Find a buddy with an S2000 and he will show you how.

Also liked how louiswei left out the v6 mustangs power to weight of 12.4 lol

Actually,

The more I look at this the more confused I get. They show all these vehicles making peak torque after peak horsepower, which is impossible by definition.

I think maybe they have the power and torque RPMs switched?.

@mrb5091 your getting confused by the metric measurements see agentoranges post.

With those numbers, if it still drives like a Toyota I don't see the point. If it drives more like a Miata, then it is competitive. More power (if not more torque) than the Miata isn't enough to overcome the extra weight, but close.

Forget performance for now. Two speakers on the low end model? That's just pretty sad. I'm not an audiophile and am all for simplifying to acheive lightness, but that's a bit low rent even by my standards.

Horsepower
- Manual transmission 167 hp @ 7000 rpm
- Automatic transmission 158 hp @ 6700 rpm

Torque 140 lb-ft @ 5000 rpm

Redline
- Manual transmission 7200 rpm
- Automatic transmission 6700 rpm

Anyone care to guess what these specs belong to? The FT-86 should be a decent car if its suspension is tuned correctly. Genesis coupe anyone? Power isn't everything.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2096

For those who want more info.

mrb5091, thanks for the clarification.

stovt001, we get it, the FR-S is not the MX-5 and you are happy with the Miata. Since this car has the Toyota badge on it must drives like a Camry, regardless what the auto journalists who have driven it already said... And obviously your "standard" can only be met by the MX-5, further more, the low-spec version doesn't come with A/C (only heater), I am sure that's WAY below your standard of course.

looks like it should have a 50/50 wt distribution. hopefully, the boxer engine will allow the front roll center to be low enough that the macpherson strut jacking should not be an issue...coz this car will need to push 0.90+ in stock form.

hopefully, they dont just put too sticky tires and overly stiff sway bars!

also, ideally, it should have a torsen lsd and a slight toe curve despite the double wishbone...wish they had a multi-link instead....

I am sure it will get great MPG. :)

I am sure it will get great MPG. :)

@louis - note I said "if". Yes, the Miata sets the standard for this class, and I believe most automotive journalists would agree. It is like the BMW 3 series - its competitors will be compared to it. My point is like the Miata, the numbers may not matter if it just drives well.

@louiswei

Thanks for the link.

Toyota... WTF YOU SMOKING DAWG. Besides stating the obvious...I am disappoint.

@louis: 200hp and that weight is great. You are on the money.

@Stovt: Journalists rightfully compare the ft-86 to the Miata but a stylish replacement with better power-to-weight ratio will drop the Miata down a peg. Unless you get a Mazdaspeed version the Miata has always lacked the power to really snap and the S2000 is more like it. Im on my second AP1 S2K and I wouldn't trade it (2 speaker setup also) for a Miata...but I am seriously watching the FT-86.

Comparing the ft-86 to a Camry is stupid. Lets compare a 5.0 Mustang to a Focus and forget to mention that the LF-A, and the IS-F are made by the same company as the ft-86.

This thing still needs about 50 more hp to be better and not just a competitor. Well either that or dirt cheap otherwise it wont be around for more than a few years. Oh yeah and they need to call it celica and offer a turbo version (with assorted body and chassis upgrades) called Supra with 100 more hp to duke it out with the z.

"This thing still needs about 50 more hp to be better and not just a competitor."

You're dead wrong. Mazda has been selling the Miata since about 1990 and they are still selling them. They have less power and less power per pound than the ft-86. As of 2011 they sold 900,000 Miatas.

When the Miata was launched it was selling for $25k (in 2011 dollars). The original saw 400,000 copies sold from launch to 1997 and it had 115hp (18lbs per HP).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MX-5

Power to weight:
Mazdaspeed MX-5 2005 -- 14.2lbs/hp
Miata standard -- 14.97/hp
S2000 -- 11.93lbs/hp
Ft-86 -- 13.33lbs/hp

It's really going to come down to price louiswei. I can't help but think back to the Honda S2000 in original 2.0 liter form. 2784 lbs, 240 hp and 153 lbs-ft. Acceleration was pretty good, but being light on torque made the driver work for it. Now, I don't mind working for it (bought two of them for crissakes), but the reward was 20% more power in the case of the S2000 - and the acceleration bar is a great deal higher these days.

People will deal with the high 14/low 15 second quarter mile times that 200 hp and 2700 lbs brings, but they won't do it if they have to spend more than $25k. $25k these days will buy you a lot more useful acceleration whether you buy a GTI, Mazdaspeed3, or a Mustang V6. I'll go further and say that the FT-86 needs to be the best handling car under $35k and be priced under $25k to be really successful. I think it can be done, but if they botch it, it'll hurt sales.

But the Miata is a roadster inlinesix. That adds a ton of appeal beyond just the hardcore enthusiast (adds lots of women to the mix, which you traditionally don't get in a sports car). Plus, you can get a base Miata today with a power/weight ratio of 14.7:1 for $23k. That's why the pricing on the FT-86 is soooo very critical. Almost any car is attractive at the right price. Since the FT-86 isn't going to be lighting any fires on specs, power, etc., it's gotta be priced right.

I hope both Toyota and Subaru don't mess up this part of the equation.

+1000 Church

Cannot compare FT to Miata apples to apples because Miata is a CONVERTIBLE, hello.....

With the FT we are talking about a sport coupe, purpose built, a niche car by definition, zero mass appeal. They need to nail the sporting elements of this car at the right price, or else the niche buyers will look else where.

At $28k this car is ridiculous, are you kidding me? No one will buy. Agree w/ others who say sub $25k is imperative.

-Rod

If they nail the steering and driver feel, it'll probably drive like an RX-8, which would be amazing. Only an RX-8 that gets halfway decent gas mileage, which would be even more amazing.

@inline six

The Miata is not a fair comparison. This car will not appeal to the masses like a cute roadster does. It needs to be either better priced or have more power per pound at a great price. Handling alone and weight mostly matter to enthusiasts (not enough buyers with just us).
The specs put this on par with a camry in a straight line (not good especially in the good ole USA).

nismo210 says:

"The Miata is not a fair comparison. This car will not appeal to the masses like a cute roadster does."

But the Miata does NOT appeal to the masses. They sold 11k units in 2008. That's worse than a sub-par sedan made in 2006 (thinking of the Kia Optima, 38k units) for the US market.

I think it'd be priced similarly to the Miata. It has more power to make up for the hard top, and it'd sell ONLY if its chassis is tuned as well as the Miata's, with a fair marketing budget.

How about the Civic Si, does that car "appeal to the masses"?

Heck, in the "good 'ole USA", if a car is not a crossover, family sedan or compact sedan then it doesn't "appeal to the masses"... So what's the frigging point of arguing that one?

Back to the Civic Si... I know it's FWD but what if the Scion FR-S matches it in acceleration and price but destroys it in handling and feel, then would it be appealing to the masses?

As for the Miata, I've said it from the beginning that comparing it to the FR-S is like comparing apple and orange. However, that doesn't stop people to bring it up everytime in a FT-86/FR-S blog post...

By the way, Toyota and Subaru (especially Toyota on this part) did this car with the purpose NOT to appeal to the masses. If they want to appeal to the masses then they'll use the existing RWD platform available, drop in the 306hp 2GR-FSE and give it a Scion interior. That car will weigh about 3,300 lbs but will be done in around $30k and it will beat the precious Genesis coupe which somehow became the benchmark in the $25k-$35k sports coupe segment.

But we all know what's going to happen if Toyota does that, yeah... auto journalists and the so-called enthusiasts will moan and whine like little bitches because:

1. It's so heavy!
2. Drives like a Camry
3. We want our AE86, MR2 and Supra!
4. So sad, Toyota doesn't build exciting cars anymore for the masses

Instead of having that tragedy unfold, they decided to make a car for the true enthusiasts so we get a different tune of moaning and whining from the so called... Well, you get the idea.

200 hp and 2,667 lbs? I didn’t think that they would be able to squeeze that much power out of the N/A 2.0 OR be able to keep the weight at bay, so I’m actually shocked that they pulled this off. My interest level just shot up from a 3 to maybe an 8 or 9. Are they going to be able to keep it under $25k as well? If so, I might find myself in a Scion dealership in the future when this thing launches…

I’m genuinely surprised by the negativity about the power and torque. This is a sports car, so wringing out a high revving engine for power is exactly the way it should be in my option. To each his own, I guess. I think that this car definitely has the potential to be a whole lot of fun and I think that Toyota is on the right track with this one.

Actually louiswei, the new Civic Si doesn't appeal to much of anyone these days. It's still probably the slowest car in its class. The big killer for enthusiasts is that, despite bumping up torque alot, Honda killed the mod potential of the motor vs. the 8th gen Civic Si. That previous generation Si didn't set the performance community alight because of what it did off the showroom floor. It was pretty midpack in terms of objective numbers. But it had _huge_ mod potential. Intake/Header/Exhaust/Cams and a tune would pick up 50-60 hp for about $2500-$3000. Or a supercharger would get you 100 hp for $4000. Or you could double the hp with a turbokit while keeping internals completely stock. It was also pretty much the cheapest car in its class, which helped take the sting out of the relatively mediocre stock performance.

For most enthusiasts, the FT-86 has a big trump card with RWD, and from what C&D said in a pre-test of the BRZ, it sounds like the platform has some pretty nice handling DNA. But, a 2.0 liter NA flat four without a variable lift/duration camshaft system (I'm assuming this one uses something like Subaru's AVCS system which is cam phasing only) is not going to be nearly as mod friendly as something like Honda's K-series. In fact, prior to this latest gaffe by Honda with the K24 in the Si, I'm not sure there has ever been a small NA engine as mod friendly as the K-series. That means there won't be a lot of power to be gained easily on the FT-86 without going forced induction. Not to mention that flat four modding tends to be more expensive both from a parts and labor standpoint (difficult access, double the number of cams, etc.). In fact, in terms of mod potential, this 2.0 liter reminds me again of the F20C 2.0 liter from S2000. That engine was so highly optimized that it was tough to find more than 20-25 hp with NA mods. But at least you got a pretty high level of power to begin with and the price was right vs. cars like the Boxster and M Roadster.

Which brings me back to my incessant droning on about getting the price right. They've got to nail it first time out or they'll sink the market for this car before getting started.

@ church123,

I've said it all along that weight and price will be the keys to make or break the FT-86 duos. I agree that now the price is the key since they've nailed the weight nicely.

Lets all hope for the best with this one. Another true sporting car is a good thing especially a realisticly priced one. I am a fan of n/a motors so hopefully it sounds sweet in the upper rev range and is eager to go there. Nissan just needs to step up now with a 240sx successor to compete.