We're just about a month away from the Tokyo Auto Show where we're expecting to get the full scoop on both the Toyota FR-S and the Subaru BRZ, but for now, the rumor mill is the best we can hope for. Thankfully the mill is still churning at a decent pace.
The most recent item to pop up is from Autocar. The British mag is reporting that the 2.0-liter boxer engine will be calibrated differently by each manufacturer. While Subaru has done the bulk of the engineering, Toyota has worked on the direct-injection, each company is tuning the ECU differently and producing different power outputs. One of them seems highly optimistic.
Toyota is shooting for somewhere right around 200 horsepower while Subaru is going for "less than 300 horsepower." Both engines are naturally aspirated.
"Less than 300 horsepower" can mean a number of things, but 300 horsepower, or anything even remotely close to 300, is fantasy from a naturally aspirated, 2.0-liter boxer.
Consider the specific output. You'd need to produce 150 horsepower per liter to get 300. The Ferrari 458 Italia makes only 124.8 hp/l from a super high strung V8. The Porsche GT3 RS 4.0 does 125 hp/l from its boxer motor while the Cayman R manages only 97. So if this motor is as built as the 4.0 in the GT3 RS 4.0 (an engine which does not have direct injection) we're looking at 250 horsepower. My money's on 225 - 230. Or a surprise turbo.
peartree1 says:
10:09 AM, 10/26/11
No turbo and no AWD makes this an awful Subaru. So I'm hoping for surprise turbo as well.
louiswei says:
10:13 AM, 10/26/11
This is great news, if it's true...
stovt001 says:
10:30 AM, 10/26/11
The BRZ and FR-S at the Tokyo show will only be concepts. I'm calling it now.
zoomzoomn says:
10:37 AM, 10/26/11
This, to me, is potentially the most exciting car coming out in the next 12 months! An affordable, true sports coupe. Think modern 240sx (are you paying attention, Nissan?).
louiswei says:
10:43 AM, 10/26/11
@ stovt001,
What if you are wrong? What if the Toyota/Scion FR-S at the Tokyo Motor Show is the production model? How about a gentlemen's bet?
lostboyz says:
10:44 AM, 10/26/11
@zoomzoomn, I said the same thing a year and a half ago. Now it's not that exciting and the whole 12 months part is questionable.
windsor5 says:
10:59 AM, 10/26/11
@zoomzoom thats a tough pill to swallow new genesis coupe coming in next 12 months mazda skyactiv ,mustang v6, civic si are cheaper and or faster options you got to remember toyota was projecting 0-60 in aprox. 8.3 sec I just cant get excited even if the subaru is 1.5 seconds faster consider all the aforementioned cars handle well too
stovt001 says:
11:11 AM, 10/26/11
@louiswei - the beauty of my position is that if I'm wrong, I still win because then there is a Toyota out there that is actually interesting and 2 fun sporty coupes with correct wheel drive.
louiswei says:
12:35 PM, 10/26/11
@ stovt001,
Nice save.
greenpony says:
12:39 PM, 10/26/11
I have two cars with "less than 300" hp. Does that mean they're as fast as the Subie will be?
blackdynamite1 says:
12:58 PM, 10/26/11
The only stat I care about on this car is curb weight
It should be right around 2500 lbs, or what the last Celica GT-S left us at
If torque is around 200, expect 0-60 to be well under 6 seconds
BD
v8vader says:
01:39 PM, 10/26/11
surprise turbo!
t10 says:
02:27 PM, 10/26/11
I'll go with suprise turbo. Given that we know there will be a new WRX and STI in 2013/14 I'll bet this will carry the WRX version of the engine good for something like 250-275 from a 2.0 turbo. I can't imagine if you were planning 200 or 220 hp that you would say "less than 300"(which to me means 250 - >high 200's). Otherwise it would be over-promising (or hinting) / under-deliver.
For the experts out there, would the low center of gravity and profile of the BRZ be consistent and compatible with what we expect the new turbo's under engine positioning (would there be enough room). I can only imagine this gets a turbo if they can re-use design from the next WRX (from an economy of scale perspective).
explorerx4 says:
03:52 PM, 10/26/11
That rear IRS adds a lot of weight.
Great job disguising the real shape of the car.
bassrockerx says:
04:13 PM, 10/26/11
wondering if this car will kill off the Scion TC or potentielly make it a smaller cheaper car like a velestar?
blueprint1 says:
09:45 AM, 10/27/11
Above pic: now THAT's what I call a mule! Last real good one I remember was the CX-7 prototype hidden under a "massaged" MPV body.
dougnash2009 says:
08:21 AM, 10/28/11
You know what's going to happen with both of these cars, right? When they FINALLY do get to market, everyone is going to be PISSED OFF when they sticker for over $30K base.
It will be reminiscent of the BMW 1-series. Only a few hundred dollars shy of a 3-series, and only a few hundred pounds lighter, but substantially less usable space.
Wait for it...