IL Track Tested: 2011 Lexus IS F

The greatest weakness of this car is the tires. Bridgestones just aren't big-time performers (in spite of their nifty commercials, which I love!)

.9 g? Come on, man!
A IS350 can pretty much hit that!

Lexus should do what Chevy did when they slapped Sport Cups on their Vettes.
EVERYTHING improved. Braking, handling, acceleration, lap times.
Took them from irrelevant at Nurburgring to cutting-edge performers!

They are simply the best tires on the market
BD

2011 BMW M3 numbers from last year's test:

0-60 mph (sec.) 4.6
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) 12.8 @ 111.2
60-0 mph (ft.) 107
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) 67.7
Slalom, 6 x 100 ft. (mph) ESC ON 65.9
Skid pad, 200-ft. diameter: .86

On a road course, these two would be VERY close!

The Lexus added the LSD after launch, which was a mistake.
In Car and Driver's "Lightning Lap" it did beat the E63, and matched the M3
BD

@black - of course unless one runs out right now, getting an M3 sedan is gonna be tricky as they're not going to be made in 2012. I really think this wasn't a sales thing so much as the fact the 2013 F30 is coming out in 2012 and it makes no sense for BMW to build e90 M3s at the same time they're tooling up for the F30 cars.

@ cjasis,

Agree about the look, The regular IS is a very handsome car and I was confused why Lexus went with the "boy-racer" route when they design the IS F, rather than being understated like the C63 AMG. So much potential, but wasted...

I was also there at the Lexus event in Fontana (Believe it was back in 2008), the IS F is instead a good drive on the track. Since I've never driven the car on regular road I am curious about exactly how harsh the ride is...

Both the IS and 3-series will be redesigned next year which means.........

New ISF and M3 by Spring 2013!

Looks like the M3 is going turbo, and the ISF has 5 liters of V8 to tune. I'm expecting 450HP, with a similar weight

These cars are as small as a Corolla. Why do they have to weigh 3700+ pounds?
BD

Hmm, what is the point when the 2012 ISF gets more tweaks?

Still behind the curve on tires BD. Sport Cups are about the worst of the DOT legal track tires. Even a very old design Toyo RA1 will lap faster (and has excellent wet traction at full tread depth), and the Toyo R888, Nitto NT-01, Kumho V700, Yoko A048, etc. are all quicker. And these aren't even the best DOT race tires, but they are all fully treaded. The Hoosier A6, Bridgestone R1 and their ilk are far quicker still. Compared to those tires, the Sport Cups will last forever.

But you're really just smarting about a Vette being faster than a certain other car, aren't you?

Back on topic, Lexus is to be commended for improving the IS-F. The couple of IS-F owners I know would absolutely love to have a proper Torsen LSD in the car. Surprisingly, straight line traction isn't a big deal with the old e-diff (at least on good pavement), but the old car doesn't like to put down power out of corners very well which is probably why lap times seem to be noticeably better with the update.

I also agree, one of the best sounding engines in this class along with the soon to be defunct MB 6.2. While BMW can make some claims about being higher tech and such and getting more out of a smaller engine, the IS-F engine is more _effective_ in the real world. That extra liter of displacement makes a big difference. Just wish you could get it with a proper manual transmission.

Well, you do have a point

The LFA is the fastest car ever at Nurburgring, and unlike Vettes and GT3, it doesn't need Sport Cups to be fast. Maybe the tires are overrated. It's the car moving the tires that counts.

Point well taken!
BD

Ah another car that goes faster than the regular one that no one will actually drive faster than the regular one. Wake me up when toyota gives performance to the people that actually use it. I know the FR-S or whatever is coming, but not soon enough.

I have to agree with cjasis - the numbers are interesting, but they do nothing to answer the big question as to whether the new IS F is more livable than the old one. Is it?

BTW, here is the video of the LFA's EPIC 7:14.64 at Nurburgring August 30th.
Congratulations, Lexus! It looks like Planet Earth has some catching up to do......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4wVb5QkZiQ&feature=player_embedded
BD

I find it funny (pathetic?) that Lexus is attempting to peddle this car to the public with an asking price the same as a Cadillac CTS-V, which will absolutely obliterate the IS-F in every performance metric, while looking better inside and out (and riding much better) in the process. If Lexus wants to know why sales of the IS-F are slow, they should simply compare it to the CTS-V, and the answer will be right in front of them.

"I find it funny (pathetic?) that Lexus is attempting to peddle this car to the public with an asking price the same as a Cadillac CTS-V, which will absolutely obliterate the IS-F in every performance metric"

The paragraph also makes sense when you swap the IS F for M3 and C63 AMG, so what exactly is your point?

You think the CTS-V is flying out of dealer lots? Unless you have the sales numbers to back up that statement it would just be another "fact" that you pulled out of your ass. I don't know about other people, but here in So Cal I see way more IS F than CTS-V.

Stingray
Somebody needs a supercharger to go fast......
BD

louiswei - I drove one of the original ISF's on the road and found the ride to be very, very harsh... about as harsh as my 997S is with the PASM set in sport. In other words, too harsh for a daily driver. Hence my query about the improved ride.

church123 - A-friggin-men about the lack of a proper manual transmission. The 8 speed in the ISF (like the DCT in the M3, the DSG from Audi/VW and the PDK from Porsche) is pretty damned good and frankly faster than I can shift but I don't care. I want to row the gears myself. I want the challenge of getting a proper heal/toe downshift. I want to drive the car. Magazine racing for the extra .01 second is meaningless to me.

stingray454 - it's too bad certain readers of this forum can't get past their blind brand loyalty or foolish patriotic allegiances to recognize a great car when you see one. The CTS-V is an incredible car and a great value. And thankfully, GM offers it with a proper manual transmission and even in the wagon... very cool. But while I can't quote exact figures off of my head (see my last comment about magazine racing) it feels and I think is, quite a bit bigger than the IS-F. I've driven both and I would compare the CTS-V to the M5 and E63 MB and not the M3, IS-F, or C63. And for what it's worth, and this is purely personal preference, I hated the interior of the CTS-V. I found the Recaro seats very uncomfortable and something about the relationship between the steering wheel, seats, pedals, and center console was just off. Like the driver's interfaces had been designed around the exterior of the car and not the other way around. It just wasn't for me. But as I've said... it's one hell of a car and a screaming bargain. But if it were my money and I had to buy a hot, 4 door sedan I'd probably buy the ISF if the suspension has been sufficiently massaged (as claimed). BMW isn't offering the M3 sedan anymore, I don't care for the MB product and since a driver's interface is about the most important aspect of driving to me... the CTS-V gets tossed out too.

So the LFA time is indeed the truth. All of the fanbois that demanded the proof can now have some class and admit that the LFA produced an awesome lap time.

Louis: You are trying to argue with people that have their self image wrapped up in their car. If you insult their car you insult them.....so there is no chance to have a reasonable discussion with them. These people need serious professional help.

Bodyblue

The most awesome lap time in the history of lap times!
BD

Interesting side show to all of this is the 5.0 V8 comparison.

416 @ 6600, 371 @ 5200 (Lexus IS-F)
412 @ 6500, 390 @ 4250 (Ford Mustang)
429 @ 6500, 376 @ 5000 (Hyundai Genesis)

Close call between the Ford and Hyundai, as the Ford has a higher peak torque at a lower RPM than the Hyundai, but the Hyundai is delivering more power at the same RPM.

I'd probably go Ford because I value the driving experience associated with "low-end torque" as found in NA engines. In turbos, lag negates this effect.

I hope the ISF has gotten a LOT smoother to ride in. I like that it is reliable but its narrow design really makes it hard to compare to an E class or 5 series. You feel far too friendly with your guests. To compare this to a CTS-V just shows how little one knows about the differences. Don't get me wrong, the CTS-V is probably the best effort from Cadillac in a long time, but for those of us fat, old Americans who can actually afford this level of vehicle, it is nothing more than a reskinned Corvette with the same poor seats, loud exhaust, unrefined ride, and lacking MANY of the features found in vehicles made across the pond.

As far as maximium performance summer tires, Tire Rack ranks them in the following order.
Michelin Pilot Super Sport, Bridgestone Potenza S04 Pole Position (Goodyear F1 Assymetricals), Continental Extreme Contact DW, and Pirelli P Zeros. I have owned the Assymetricals and the Extreme Contact DWs and they made a world of difference on my E550. I sure wish Mercedes would offer better tire options. It really makes comparison testing of cars more of an affirmation of tire mismatches than the true potential of these vehicles. I keep asking for insideline to conduct some comparisons using the same tires on all the vehicles but it seems to fall on deaf ears.

"And we weren't the only ones with the same complaint. Lexus is serious about the IS F, though, and took the comments to heart, revising the suspension for 2011."

Wow, really serious. They added LSD 2 years later, and redid the suspension 3 years later. That aside, this car has impressive performance, but unfortunately, boy racer looks aren't appropriate for a $64K car.

@blackdynamite1, the LFA nurburgring (sp?) edition got that time, a regular one did about the same as a 458. There is a key point here.

Is it that bad that a $33K mustang would do basically the same perfomance wise?

Yep, it is. Badly.

Or good if you don`t have the cash. :)

But having the cash, M3 or C63 for me. I am positive that whatever sound this motor has, the 6.2L V8 from Mercedes, will sound more menacing, be more powerful + quicker.

@louiswei

"The paragraph also makes sense when you swap the IS F for M3 and C63 AMG, so what exactly is your point?"

Agreed, which is one of the reasons I own a '10 CTS-V. However, if the CTS-V didn't exist, I would choose M3 > C63 > IS-F. Performance numbers (and favorable reviews) bear out the same relationship. Point clear now?

"You think the CTS-V is flying out of dealer lots?"

Did I say they were? You sound a bit defensive, Lexus boy.

"Unless you have the sales numbers to back up that statement it would just be another "fact" that you pulled out of your ass. "

No need to get punchy Lexus boy. Here are some facts: Neither Cadillac nor Lexus break out sales figures for the -V or -F lines, respectively. They are lumped together with all CTS and IS sales. However, Cadillac's brand manager has publicly stated that -V sales comprise about 6-7% of total CTS sales. Based on YTD CTS sales through June, that puts total CTS-V sales at about 3,500 units per year. Lexus has publicly stated that they will produce about 2,500 2012 IS-F's next year.

"I don't know about other people, but here in So Cal I see way more IS F than CTS-V."

Spoken like a typical So-Californian. You think the rest of the world is just like there. California is practically the Japanese car capital of the world. The only other place in the world where there are more Japanese cars than California is Japan itself. So of course you will see more IS-F's than CTS-V's in So Cal. The majority of So-Californians wouldn't be caught dead in an American car (other than SUV's). I know, I used to live there too. What you're too naive to understand is So Cal doesn't have the same car buying habits of the rest of the country.

Lostboyz
According to Lexus, the Nurburgring Edition is 7 seconds faster than the standard LFA
(When Lexus speaks, I would listen)

And these are on merely adequate Bridgestone Potenzas (Lexus engineers say the LFA can do 7:19)

On Michelin Sport Cups, the Nurburgring can do 7:10. The Standard car can do 7:15
BD

BTW special shout out to Akira Iida, the master pilot in this epic performance
Way to go, AI!
BD

@tonkatoytruck

"To compare this to a CTS-V just shows how little one knows about the differences."

Same price, both performance luxury sedans. One is slower, can't handle or stop as well, has an automatic-only, rides like a brick, and looks like a ricer had too much fun with aftermarket body kits. OK, I get that the CTS-V is slightly larger. Fine. So you mean to tell me you would pick the IS-F over an M3 manual sedan, or a C63 AMG? Really?

"Don't get me wrong, the CTS-V is probably the best effort from Cadillac in a long time, but for those of us fat, old Americans who can actually afford this level of vehicle"

Those would be the exact same fat, old Americans who can afford the IS-F then - they're the same price! Dude, go back to playing with your Tonka trucks in the yard. I mean, really!

"it is nothing more than a reskinned Corvette"

Besides the engine and transmission, I challenge you to list the parts of the CTS-V that are the same as the Corvette. Go ahead, I'm waiting...

"with the same poor seats"

Recaro makes poor seats? Since when?

"loud exhaust"

LMAO - you obviously never even heard a CTS-V run, much less sit in one. One of my few complaints about the CTS-V is it's too quiet!

"unrefined ride"
Funny - EVERY single review of the CTS-V praises its refined ride, most describing it as "amazing" given its handling capabilities and weight. I agree, the MR shocks on the CTS-V are amazing. They are something that would fix the IS-F ride quality problems, but Toyota is too ashamed to buy them from Delphi. Ferrari isn't though: several of their models have them.

" and lacking MANY of the features found in vehicles made across the pond."

WRONG - let's hear some examples...

Good grief... I hope you're not representative of the young generation.

Lovely...

A Caddy fanboy called out a Lexus fanboy...

Yeah, you win.

Saying something bad about stingray's Caddy or Vette is like saying something bad about his gold chains and leisure suit! I mean, if you have two cool cars like that then he must be a cool dude, right?

LFA
LORD OF THE 'RING!
BD

BD I know you are a troll and all, but the official times show an LFA as a 7:38, I really don't care what they say they can do. I am claiming right now that my production car can go around in 5:00 flat. When I talk you better listen.

I would much rather have a radical than an LFA

Lostboyz
You are truly a lost troll

Lexus said the new time was 7:14
You were the first one to say "I need a video before I believe Lexus, blah, blah, blah"

Hopefully you are smart enough to have learned a lesson today
But, considering the subject.......
BD

All these bickering are just pointless,
Knowing that MOST people just cannot live daily in this car.

The moronic-back-breaking IS-F suspension just got to go (or for pete's sake, at least have some kind of 'settings'!)

Otherwise, it does not matter how fast this car can go,
Most people (including I) would not suffer daily on the stupidly harsh ride...

@BD where is the video with the standard LFA getting better than a 7:38?

"The moronic-back-breaking IS-F suspension just got to go (or for pete's sake, at least have some kind of 'settings'!)"

Agree, and Lexus apparently does too, that's why they revised the suspension for the 2011 model. In this article:

"And we weren't the only ones with the same complaint. Lexus is serious about the IS F, though, and took the comments to heart, revising the suspension for 2011. The 2011 Lexus IS F also benefits from retuned electric power steering that, during our test of the '08, we said was "artificially heavy" and "cannot communicate as much information about the contact patches of the front tires as other sport sedans we've driven." These enhancements come on top of the 2010 model, which got a Torsen-type limited-slip rear diff as opposed to the brake-activated simulated limited slip in the '08."

So to be honest, a more interesting test for the 2011 IS F should be the REAL LIFE TEST instead of the TRACK TEST. We all know that this car does good on the track so what's the point of testing it again since most the complaints are about the real life drives?

IL, you dropped the ball here.

All idiotic bickering aside... IL did you notice an improvement in the ride quality of the revised suspension in this car?

Boss FTW

Too bad that LFA of yours had to tangle with a Vette at Laguna, BD. Same driver too (a pro, Randy Pobst). What was that time differential? Lessee, the LFA ran a 1:36 somthing, just edging out the older 3.8 liter GT3 RS by a tenth. Then the Z06 ran a what? Help me out here....oh, yeah, a 1:34.

Your favorite wonder car, whose stain covered poster I'm sure adorns your wall, got absolutely smoked, in the fairest heads-up test possible, by a $100k, plastic and balsa wood, pushrod, manually shifted, naturally aspirated Chevy with a 5 year old chassis design (older really when you consider its just a tweak of the C5 chassis). Sucks to get so emotionally invested in a machine you don't even own and then see it get smoked like that, doesn't it?

For the rest of you, I don't particularly have anything against the LFA. I think its overpriced for what it delivers, but I'm not buying cars of that price range, so who cares. I just despise ignorant fan boys.

If there was ever any doubt, now it's official: blackdynamite1 is officially Lexus/Toyota's answer to ZR1man.

"When Lexus speaks, I would listen"
- Seriously...you really said that? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

While the LFA is an impressive car, the fact that a special edition of an already limited car specifically tuned to go fast around that specific track achieved the "production car" fastest lap time is completely irrelevant to me. I can't go out and buy that car right now if I wanted to and had the funds. It's more impressive when a Corvette or GTR get the fastest times around that track, as those are cars selling at prices that many more people can afford, and are truly "production" cars sold year over year and with continued model cycles. That's just my take, whatever it's worth.

As for this IS F, IL dropped the ball on what to do with it. It seems all the improvements since the original test was done in '08 warrant another full test. And being an enthusiast on an enthusiast's site, I'd happily read another full test on a performance car that has received notable upgrades (as opposed to a hybrid shootout). How am I supposed to appreciate the differences in the suspension tuning from a track test? A full test with street driving would demonstrate that far better. Even the addition of an LSD would be better appreciated from a full test. Unless they've done one and failed to mention that here.

coolb
That was for all the haters out there, who DIDN'T listen when Lexus Europe said the new time is 7:14

Every clown in here was like "Oh, I need a VIDEO! I can't believe anything Lexus says!"
Like Lexus has to lie to you? Please! Get over yourselves!

Now, maybe, some clowns have learned to listen to Lexus......
BD

"IL, you dropped the ball here."

Agreed. Why provide all the build-up if the question is not going to be answered?

Thanks for the video, though. That car carves through the slalom very nicely.

When the IS line was being developed, the IS F wasn't even on the radar as the IS wasnt developed with a performance variant in mind. With that said I commend Lexus on the outcome even though it's not perfect.

This Car is a waste of money it's the size of the corolla with a tight back seat, I'll rather Buy a 2012 SRT Charger or 300 there 10 times bigger only weight about 500 Pound's more better MPG,DP or lower @70mph,Faster and you save about 12,000 dollars looks like a No Brainer...

@ hondacura4,

You are entirely correct, the IS F was basically an extra curricular activity by a group of Lexus engineers and I think they did a good job with it. I personally don't think the IS F is on par with the C63 AMG and M3 for overall refinement on both appearance and handling but it is awfully close, not bad as Lexus' first effort in the luxury performance tuning arena. Hopefully the next generation IS will be designed with the IS F in mind right out of the bat like its European counterparts.

@ Louiswei,

According to my dad who's a Toyota/Lexus product planner the next IS is being developed with an IS F in mind similar to how the new GS. The next IS F WILL BE ON PAR with Germany's best and may have a manual option.

@ hondacura4,

That's great news! Do you know if the next IS will upgrade the powertrain from the current generation? The new GS350 pretty much has the same engine as the current IS350 and there's no guarantee that the F-sport version is going to get a more powerful engine. IMO it will be a let down if the next generation IS is going to get the carry-over engines...

Louis
I fully expect a 450HP V8 from the ISF AND a small weight reduction
Hopefully, they can get under 3700 lbs (currently 3780, 80 pounds heavier than the M3)
BD

Hi everybody,

I'm finally able to address some of your questions/concerns.

Number One: Did the car's ride quality improve? Yes, drastically so. I'd be completely happy driving this car everyday--even on L.A.'s notoriously choppy freeways. It's completely livable now. No complaints whatsoever.

Number Two: Did the previous steering quibbles go away? Yes and no. Yes, it feels more like traditional hydraulic-boosted steering, but no, it still lacks the sort of feel one gets from an actual mechanical link between your hands and the tires on the road. I still think I had to use more steering angle/input than I should have to get it through the slalom. They could fix that with a variable ratio so that it "quickens" as the wheel is turned further off-center--just like every Porsche 911 has done for decades with the teeth on the rack being closer together at the ends.

Number Three: Why didn't this car post better handling numbers with the revised suspension and LSD? Because it was wearing RE050A (instead of PS2s) tires and was tested in the parking lot of Cal Speedway, instead of our distant "undisclosed location" that features a billiard-table flat, SAE-spec surface we sometimes use when the far more convenient parking lot is unavailable.

The take away should have been--and we should have clearer about it, sorry--is that the improvements made to the IS-F are real, tangible, and do make it a far more well-rounded car, just like the M3. The fact that this car, with these tires, on that surface was able to essentially match the previous IS-F's slalom/skidpad performance is remarkable. That it is also a far more civil beast in everyday driving makes it a genuine competitor for those who are considering this or an M3. Had it been wearing PS2s and driven at the same test facility, it would've trounced the previous car's numbers.

I hope this helps and I'm sorry I didn't chime in sooner--been a little busy the past couple days.

Chris Walton

Chris,

Thank you for "picking up the ball"!

So sounds to me the biggest complaint of the IS F has been neutralized by the upgraded suspension and still retained the same performance specs. Given that the current generation IS wasn't even designed with the IS F in mind (unlike the E92 M3 and C63 AMG) but Lexus has able to turn it into a, and I quote, "genuine competitor for those who are considering this or an M3" is a big mission accomplished in my book.

Now I can't wait to see what Lexus will do to the next generation IS and IS F.

Thanks Chris.

Many thanks, Chris. Now I know to refuse a cheap 2010 model no matter what the dealer offers me to take it.

Thanks for keepin' it real, Chris
BD

If for no reason other than i actually read all these comments (and feel somewhat dumber for having done so), I'd like to add the follwing with regard to:

"Besides the engine and transmission, I challenge you to list the parts of the CTS-V that are the same as the Corvette. Go ahead, I'm waiting..."

The engines aren't the same. The block might be, but the Corvette ZR1 uses the LS9 and the CTS-V uses the LSA (which forgoes the titanium pistons/connecting rods/etc. for more traditional forged components).

So, in the argument that caught the majority of my attention with respect to a CTS-V simply being a "reskinned Corvette", there are even fewer shared parts than orignally though.

/troll

*yawn* I'll wait for the 2012 IS-F or better yet, the successor to the Jaguar X-Type.

I'm pretty sure it won't be as fast or as "perfect" as a Lexus or a BMW but then, why would I care? I'm no Fanboy D-bag who likes to brag about 0-60 and nurburgring lap times. (Yes I admit, I'm a Jaguar fan but at least I'm not sticking my nose into some Lexy fanboy's face and strangle him that Jags are better)

Plus Cadillac is also coming up with an entry level BMW M3/3 series competitor as well.

So please everyone bickering about what is fast or what is better, grow the F*ck up.

So did the ride "actually" improved?

stingray454 says:

Same price, both performance luxury sedans. One is slower, can't handle or stop as well, has an automatic-only, rides like a brick, and looks like a ricer had too much fun with aftermarket body kits.
--------------------------------------------
The CTS-V looks pretty ricey to me. White rice. Make that old white rice. Driven at the speed of rice. Sponsored by Viagra.

I'm surprised/disappointed at the 0-60 and .25 mile times. I would think the ISF would be a bit faster than that. Both times are barely faster than a 370Z.

Then again, this is Toyota we're talking about, who, I'm sure, debated in a conference room somewhere about the merits of making the ISF into a hybrid car.

Still slushbox only? Yes? Then I don't care.

still, no manual transmission. boring.