Spy Photos: Scion FR-S Prototype on the 'Ring

Looking forward to this car. It's hard to imagine now, but Toyota actually made some nice sports/GT cars once a upon a time. Supra, Celica GT (the original), Celica all-trac (yes, AWD performance before the EVO and WRX) MR2 turbo etc. Maybe there still are some car guys left at the company.

Too much front overhang for a RWD vehicle.

Travelingman, the overhang isn't substantial nor any worse than many other RWD applications. However you have to remember the new level of required crash/pedestrian safety regulations involved that unfortunately drive many designs today.

I'm disappointed. Holding out hopes for the Subaru version now.

That rear mounted steering rack worries me. I really wanted this to be the car that returned Toyota to maker of cool sporty cars, but if they're going for a setup that compromises steering feel, what other details are they leaving out that could make or break the finer points of the driving experience?

FR-S or not, this car is RWD; I'm almost 100% certain.

See those axle nuts peeking out of in the center hole of the rear wheels? There are none on the front. Glad they left those center caps off.

The front end resembles the Lexus LF-A, which is a good thing. Side profile resembles the iconic Toyota Supra. I'm not so sure a Scion badge is the way to go, but, whatever.

I really want to know what is under the hood.

@stovt001: It isn't a terminal flaw. And I can see it being necessary with a Subaru boxer4 mounted lower than ever before on account of no AWD. The low CG benefit of a really low-mounted flat-4 might be worth it.

Does that look like the exhaust system of a 200HP 4-banger to anyone?
Me neither

Expect the 305HP turbo at some point
BD

It resembles a Celica more than a Supra, imo.

Thanks Dan, for pointing out the axle nuts.

I've owned my TC since October 2004, when I was just a freshman in college. 105k miles later, the car runs great, and I've had ZERO mechanical issues with it besides the current need to replace an O2 sensor. I'm sold on this FR-S, it comes at the perfect time in my life - just finished law school, job starts in August, TC has long been paid off. The only variable for me really is the interior, as Toyota's still hasn't released any interior shots yet.

I've owned my TC since October 2004, when I was just a freshman in college. 105k miles later, the car runs great, and I've had ZERO mechanical issues with it besides the current need to replace an O2 sensor. I'm sold on this FR-S, it comes at the perfect time in my life - just finished law school, job starts in August, TC has long been paid off. The only variable for me really is the interior, as Toyota's still hasn't released any interior shots yet.

@ greenpony,

This is suppose to be the successor for the AE86, which was a Corolla by the way... Toyota has never said that this is a Supra replacement of any sort, I don't remember the word "Supra" was mentioned anywhere alongside the FT86 or FR-S.

@ stovt001

Check out the Infiniti G35/37 (current and last gen.) setup, I don't think that has compromised the G's handling or steering feel at all.

Its running on STi Spec C wheels...

Also, anyone who has looked at the concept of the drivetrain would realize this has no chance of being AWD.

Its running on STi Spec C wheels...

Also, anyone who has looked at the concept of the drivetrain would realize this has no chance of being AWD.

Always hard to tell with camo, especially the modern swirly camo, but this looks like it's really really plain...like it's lost all the interesting detailing around the sides and hood area that made the show car look like something. This looks like a tC.

Those are not STI spec C wheels.

There are Subaru's STI-branded 17" x 7" wheels. The Subaru RWD Coupe has been rocking them for a while.

So did a variant of the USDM MY2008 Subaru Forester 2.5XT.

http://images.usedcheapcars.org/used-subaru/2008-subaru-forester-sports-2-5xt/2008-subaru-forester-front-right-ucc.jpg

Can you say only P215/45R17 wheels all the way around? :(

Certainly closer to Celica but still bit smaller. Too small for me and more like a 'rounded' tC.
Still hope they bring out one day again a true Celica or Supra successor.
Priced around $25K it will be only 5K less than a Z.

my new car is being tested :)

Lucien
$7k less than a Z
BD

My first thought was: Spy photos of the new Audi TT?

As far as back I 2009 every spy pic shows front brake caliper I front

The rear quarter window is cribbed from the old 2000GT. If they could give the rest of the car that sort of character, I might be interested in a Toyota-branded car for the first time since the MR2 departed.

The exhaust has me intrigued. Looks like the 370Z and Audi TT had a baby.

"Lucien
$7k less than a Z
BD"

The Z starts at 31,200 but sure we don't know exact pricing yet so maybe range of 5-7K. But relative speaking it seems bit overpriced. The MX-5 starts at 23K.

subytrojan says:

Can you say only P215/45R17 wheels all the way around?

Isn't that enough tire for such a small, modestly powered car? A good set of Summer tires should give the car more than enough grip.

For a 17" x 7" wheel, it'd be nice if they stuck 225s on them, but I can understand manufacturers not wanting the additional rolling resistance (fuel economy...meh).

For an enthusiast-oriented RWD coupe, one would hope a staggered wheel setup would be utilized with wider rear wheels/tires, no?

I meant "They are" in my original comment. Typing FAIL.

Lucien
The Miata doesn't have 200HP, and look like a bad-ass
It's a chick-mobile!
Bad comparison!

We KNOW this is $25k!
BD

blackdynamite0: It's sad that the MX-5 (not Miata thank you very much) is just a chick-mobile to you.

Many many grassroots racer got their start driving an MX5. An honest and affordable RWD car with good intuitive handling deserves more credit than the usual 'chick car' comment.

Go to an autox, trackday or an amateur race event and count the number of MX5's. I don't see Scion TC's =)

@dorikin_86 - what, you don't see a fat FWD with a Camry 4 banger at track days? Man, how dare you.

Totally agree on your take of the MX-5. Wish Mazda would do another mazdaspeed MX5 though...

The overall shape of the car is quite nice. The 2.0 Boxer will do just fine in a car this size. Let's just hope the price is right

Overall I'm very encouraged by the shape of this car. And I think, if executed properly, it's just what the entry level enthusiast market needs.

For a long time, FWD cars dominated the import enthusiast market in the USA. This happened for various reasons - cost, practicality, insurance and the ability of the manufacturers to put out truly good cars. However much they are maligned now for terminal blandness, Honda really did an awesome job with the Civic and Integra platforms to dominate this market. Even today they are still great chassis to go racing with in virtually any venue or series you choose.

But today, the entry performance bar is higher and Honda seems not to care about the enthusiast any more. The FR-S appears to well positioned to fill a hole in the market between the higher dollar AWD turbo cars (EVO/STI/WRX), the entry level V6 pony cars, and the increasingly powerful, but dynamically compromised turbo FWD entries (MS3, Golf GTI, new Focus ST). To me, the FR-S feels like it falls right in between two historical greats in the RWD,4cyl fun car market. The Miata and the S2000. Powerwise it splits the difference, weight will be on the upper end, and cost will be on the bottom end (hopefully). Yes, it isn't a roadster, but that's better for performance and cost anyways.

Others have suggested that the FR-S is like the reimagining of the Nissan Silvia/240SX, which is another useful comparison. The fact that I, or any other enthusiast is even looking at the FR-S in this light is a good thing. If Toyota and Subaru don't drop the ball (wrong price, hamstring the performance in some way, make a bad styling move late in the game), this could be a really, really hot tuner car that crosses many demographics. Here's to hoping!

COME ON! if this thing's release is postponed even one day i'm going to... well, i'm going to be even more unhappy than i am now. bring it for chrisakes!

What's most important is weight
I've heard 2500 lbs (the same as the last Celica GT-S, which was slightly bigger), to 2775, still 400lbs less than the Genesis Coupe

If they can keep weight down, they won't have to slap a turbo on it to keep it competitive in performance, and EPA can be best-in-class
BD

This car needs to be more practical in order to be a massive seller. Meaning.... it needs a back seat. This thing will push S2000 or Miata numbers if it's good, but it could have V6 Pony car numbers if it had a backseat and at least 275 hp. It already looks extremely light weight. Tack on a backseat Toyota!

Also it needs to perform better than the Genesis coupe's 4 banger and V6 variants... but slightly less than a 350z to have it's own niche. It needs to start at around 24 and be well equipped at 26 grand too.

I recently drove a FWD Juke manual, weighing 2900 lbs. It was quite fast enough, in my opinion-- much, much faster than my 4 cyl. Outback, and a lot faster than the Scion TC I test drove. If the FR-S is hundreds of pounds lighter than the Juke, then 200 hp will be more than adequate, and I wouldn't complain too much about 180 hp.

The styling looks fine, from what I can see. The exhausts are large, so I don't understand someone posting that the car won't have 200 hp because the exhaust pipes are too small.

Welps... This gives me a reason not to sell my supra. The FR-S concept was certainly appealing... This is not.

I remember how everyone moaned about the Nissan 240SX when it came out. "Boring! Heavy! A secretary's car!" they said. No one liked it much at first. Now these are referred to by their JDM name, Silvia, and sought after by wannabe Formula D-types.

Even this thing is Scion Tc-sized, RWD cures a lot of ills. A fully-prepped SEMA-fueled aftermarket can and will do a lot with this, especially if a lot of the existing Subie motor upgrades still work.

Also, I've learned to hold my tongue where prototypes are concerned. Stuff that looks uncomfortable the first time you see it can look great shined up and dressed in production wheels and tires. Still, this shape does seem to lack character lines.

It is disappointing that the FR-S didn't turn out to be a liftback. I don't understand why manufacturers stick to small trunks that do nothing in terms of utility.

I could sit here posting all the cars out there that this car resembles.... but I'll just cut it short. It looks good. And that's WITH the camo on.

180hp would be good for me, 200 would put a big smile on my face. anything over 260 would make my heart stop from excitement. All I want to see is the interior shots now... and frankly, they probably won't matter to me...

I fully expect:

200HP
Weight under 2700 lbs
A Sports Pkg with 19" wheels/tires, Ground effects, spoiler, and rear diffuser
0-60 under 6 sec, 14.3 quarters
Skidpad over .9
$25k price tag

And a big aftermarket for FT-86 decals!
BD

Let's see.

Seeing as how the FR-S is not a roadster, I don't see how it would compete against the MX-5 (or the old S2000, for that matter).

The current MX-5 weighs about 2500lbs, with a base price around $23k. To even stand a chance against the MX-5, the FR-S needs to 1) Weigh in around 2500lbs 2) Start with a base price around $20k 3) Make at least 200hp in NA trim. If it's not ALL of these, why would anyone pick the FR-S over the MX-5?

Then of course, there's the matter of the other competition. In a day of 300hp Mustang V6s and 300hp Hyunda Genesises, if the FR-S isn't packing at least 300hp under the hood, it's going to quite literally fall behind the competition. V6 Mustang starts at $22k, V6 Genesis starts at $26k. If the top model FR-S starts around $25k, but makes nowhere near 300hp, why would anyone choose the FR-S over its competition?

Here's my take on the power and weight:

The FR-S is based on the 2012 Impreza chassis. A 2012 Impreza base 4-door is listed at 2911lbs. Chop off 100-150lbs for rear doors and lop off another 100lbs or so for being RWD instead of AWD. Figure they saved another 50lbs here and there and we're in the 2600lb neighborhood give or take.

The FB20 in the 2012 Impreza is good for 148hp. Switching to direct injection ought to be good for 20-25hp and figure another 5-10hp for intake/exhaust tuning. That'd put it in the 180hp range.

Total it up and it comes out to something in the neighborhood of 14.5lbs/hp which puts it in pretty good company. This is all pure speculation, though.

@lt1boy:

A Mazda MX-5 has 167hp. Why would the FR-S need 200hp to compete?

@7driver

The MX-5 has been the best selling roadster for two decades. If the FR-S wants to stand a chance, it better outperform it. Being just good enough won't do it for a consumer. Just one look at the ill-fated Pontiac Solstice would prove my point.

OMG Scion please don't take away those beautiful flared front fenders!

LT1
NO ONE will compare a Miata to the FR-S!

And the FR-S will have 200HP, plus a turbo option at 305
BD

how certain are you of this turbo variant? i'd expect to pay subaru's pricetag of around 33k.

Why did they take so much time developing? What's the difference between the old Scion TC and this one? Only difference is just shifting from the FF to FR.

A friend of mine has a real AE86 and I would take it over this car in a heartbeat. This reminds me of a Hyundai Tiburon. This is much more of a chick car then a Miata will ever be.

How tall are all of you that actually plan to drive this? I know there is no way in hell that I'd fit behind the wheel.

Hollow
Take a look at the exhaust on this mule! This IS the turbo mule!

When have you ever seen a OEM 200hp engine with that much pipe?
BD

@ BD

http://sportscarforums.com/gallery/data/42/Hyundai-Tiburon_Coupe_2007_1024x768_wallpaper_09.jpg

Its called a Hyundai Tiburon.

Seriously though, do you just worship every Toyota creation or is there a limit? May I ask what you actually drive?

What's even more awesome than actually seeing the toyobaru driving around in almost-but-not-quite production guise is the fact that they have built a neighborhood, including a PLAYGROUND at the Nurburgring. Anyone know what real estate broker is working with those track-side properties?

Are there any spy photos of it actually on the ring, or just shots of it, presumably, "arriving"?

Either way, this has the potential to finally bring back some credibility to Toyota, long lost since the late 90's. For that reason, I am excited about it...a little skeptical, but still excited.

This might be the Subaru version. It has JDM STi Spec C rims on it. Anyway, I really like it.

g0t
Do you just hate any Toyota creation, even lightweight RWD sports cars?
BD

I don't see the point of praising something that hasn't done anything. Do you? Silly question, its a Toyota. Of course you don't.

I'd rather have a WRX instead of the Subi version.
I'd rather have a lot of things instead of the Toyota/Scion one. Miata comes to mind easily.

There was a time when the Lexus LFA and Toyota Supra hadn't "done anything"
Toyota doesn't enter the sports car arena without precedent for class-leading performance
Subaru's association should bolster your confidence

The Miata couldn't dream of going toe-to-toe with this, and the only thing the have in common is RWD
It's a secretary's car, with light power, queer style, and is best topless

This would crush the Miata to dust
But if you like chick cars.....
BD

As I said before, talking performance cars with someone that drives a Yaris is a sad conversation.

Miatas are used for grass roots racing as someone has mentioned before. They have made numerous lists for cheap used cars for tracks days, hobbyists, etc. Edmunds have a supercharges on atm.

I'm guessing the Scion TC and Celica are class leaders too? Supercharged TC that makes 200hp? I mean, its not a Mazda Speed3, or GTI, or Cobalt SS, or Cooper S, or Genesis Coupe, or ... Do I have to continue? IS-F? I remember a recent headline about that car "Still no m3". Class leading again, right?

So let me help you out here. Toyota doesn't enter the sports car arena. You meant to put a period after arena. This isn't the 90s. Toyota makes boring cars and hybrids. Lexus tries but still can't match the m3 so they dumped millions into a loser (LF-A). If you can't beat em, make something exclusive in a different category and claim victory.

You might be referring to Hyundai. They had the Tiberon (which I only mention since you consider silly things "performance cars"), Genesis Coupe, and the upcoming Veloster. Their Sedans have 2.0Ts now. Kia also is moving up the performance tree as of late.

For the average person (this means excluding the overpriced LFA) Hyundai cars outperform Toyota on the street. Now isn't that silly.

As for the Subaru comment. I'm not sure what is going on with that company right now. The STI is behind the current Evo and many reports suggest buying a base WRX over the STI. Having driven the last gen, I am highly disappointed by such. I hope this association with Toyota doesn't leave Subaru with a hybrid instead of the other way around. Furthermore, is Toyota so lost they have to go to another company just to build one RWD coupe?

I hope you consider all of those points before posting something like "Toyota rocks!!!111" or some such other comment.

I am interested in seeing some ring numbers and pricing of the Turbo variety. I wonder if it could match the 1 series.

Hater-ade only fuels your defeat, g0t
Ignore the facts as much as you can.

You like chick cars, so there goes your street cred

No one mentions Miatas as a competitor
Because it is no competition
BD

Guys who drive Miatas better go to some distant track (certainly not a strip)
They don't want to be seen in public driving one

I've never seen it myself, at least in the last 10 years
BD

Way to miss all the points. I take it you concede defeat since you can't rebuke any of them. I wonder if the miatas outperform toyota on gas mileage too.

@BD
"Street cred?" "chick car?" You're embarrassing yourself.

Never seen a man drive a Miata in public
It never happened

I don't know where you guys hang out, but....
BD

It's asinine to bring it into this anyway, since it couldn't have less to do with the FR-S
BD

This is definitely the Subie version, those are STI wheels, and we know the Scion won't be this bland....

Geez blackdynamite, you're like a Toyota loving version of 1487, only you're more friendly and an even bigger fanboy.

I like the FR-S so far. I think it has some serious potential. If executed right it will really be a hit with the enthusiast market.

But you look like a complete tool and poser calling the Miata a chick car. And it's such an ignorant statement. The Miata brought back the small, fun roadster and it didn't do it selling to women alone. The Miata has been an entry level performance icon for decades now. It's won countless autocross and solo2 championships and it has been successful in road racing. In fact, it has several of its own dedicated racing series (Spec Miata, Pro Miata, etc.) because it is so damn popular. It is fun to drive, punches above its weight in terms of performance, and is inexpensive to drive or race.

Any automotive enthusiast should be grateful for what Mazda has wrought with the Miata, even if they don't particularly want to drive one.

Church
The only tool and poseur (!) is the one bringing it into a conversation where it doesn't belong

I've never seen a guy drive one on the street.
That's the gospel.

And I sure as hell am not interested.
Take it to a Mazda blog!

Moving on.....
BD

blackdynamite0 says:
08:55 AM, 05/17/11
Hollow
Take a look at the exhaust on this mule! This IS the turbo mule!

When have you ever seen a OEM 200hp engine with that much pipe?
BD

g0tcuddly says:
09:55 AM, 05/17/11
@ BD

http://sportscarforums.com/gallery/data/42/Hyundai-Tiburon_Coupe_2007_1024x768_wallpaper_09.jpg

Its called a Hyundai Tiburon.

OMGROFLMAO! blackdynamite0 got wtfpwned on that one...I think I just peed my pants a little.

Anyways. For those saying that 200hp will be enough, I can't wait for the FR-S to come out and then only be as good as the new Civic SI terms of performance.

To note the 200 bhp

Honda CR-Z Mugen is at 200bhp and 181lb ft of torque. Honda claims it reaches 60 in a similar time to the Civic Type R (6.6 seconds) but can still manage more than 50mpg in eco mode.