Tired of the literal shootouts and in the mood for us to get back to cars for a few minutes? Good.
After we'd finished track testing the 2012 Lexus LFA and 2011 Porsche 911 GT2, we took out the testing equipment, headed to the prepped side of the dragstrip and hooked up the tree for some head-to-head drag racing.
The Porsche is saddled with a clutch and six-speed manual while the Lexus has paddles and, essentially, launch control. Power and weight favor the Porsche. Repeatability and technology favor the Lexus. Jacquot and Walton are to-the-hundredth equal. Four races. Who ya got?
(*note: Like with the track tested, we didn't know the Porsche was hiding fault codes when we were racing. )
bkapps says:
02:57 PM, 04/13/11
THAT is insane! (understanding that the Porsche is throwing codes)
The 2012 GT-R is next right?!
Still though, its interesting to see the Lexus as it is barreling down the straight, the graceful rise of the rear spoiler is just engineering at its finest. Its a REAL shame that this isn't a part of the LT fleet. A shame I say.
blackdynamite0 says:
03:08 PM, 04/13/11
The LFA really needs it's own HDTV station
BD
2001gs430 says:
03:33 PM, 04/13/11
Is PDK an option in the GT2 RS ? It looks like the manual gears shift neutralized its power advantage.
bestjinjo says:
03:41 PM, 04/13/11
The LFA is proving to be an amazing car. Is it engaging/fun to drive though compared to the F458 or the new Avantador? I smell a road test.
malicious1 says:
03:42 PM, 04/13/11
Wake me up when the car is gone and this site is done being flooded by these posts please.
a1c_scg says:
04:06 PM, 04/13/11
No PDK option the GT2. Or any other GT Porsche offering. But then, that's the way it should be.
sennafan says:
04:36 PM, 04/13/11
Did IL get a chance to retest the GT2RS?
zoomzoom22 says:
04:51 PM, 04/13/11
LOL @ Josh's 'serious face' during the drag race.
1487 says:
05:13 PM, 04/13/11
wow, the 911 sounds terrible.
inlinesix says:
05:13 PM, 04/13/11
zoomzoom,
+1
I think the interior cams were great
sennafan says:
05:14 PM, 04/13/11
Did IL get a chance to retest the GT2RS?
2001gs430 says:
05:15 PM, 04/13/11
Wouldn't the purists go for NA engines as well?
a1c_scg says:
05:23 PM, 04/13/11
Typically, yes, NA is preferred. But so long as the whole package delivers, I don't care how many pistons, and force-fed or non. Many others would agree.
blackdynamite0 says:
05:47 PM, 04/13/11
1487
And that is the best of them!
BD
2001gs430 says:
05:48 PM, 04/13/11
sennafan
IL should also retest the LFA with better performance tires, and make sure to use LC for acceleration runs.
louiswei says:
06:23 PM, 04/13/11
Oh great, now the "whole package" matters...
jguan says:
06:27 PM, 04/13/11
You guys have been doing this so much that it doesn't even put a smile on your face anymore. I think its time to give me a go at it.
compressor says:
06:32 PM, 04/13/11
At least the driver of the 911 can say he used his skill to achieve a good run. And I think that says a lot about the whole manual vs. pdk/dsg/dual... Doing something anyone can do will never be a inspiring as mastering a task to a degree few others can match.
FWIW, I see no point in drag racing stock cars with automated gearboxes - just look up the numbers and say "yeah, mine is faster".
bimmerjay says:
06:40 PM, 04/13/11
That race sure sounded like it cost $625,000!
wrinklebump says:
06:41 PM, 04/13/11
Seems all that money can't buy you pretty
louiswei says:
06:42 PM, 04/13/11
@ compressor,
So are you saying that F1 drivers have less skill than NASCAR drivers? Also, are you saying that anyone can "launch" a F1 car since it doesn't have a 3rd pedal and a manual shifter?
Not trying to put words in your mouth, just following your logic...
cr_driver says:
07:00 PM, 04/13/11
Whatever.
blackdynamite0 says:
07:19 PM, 04/13/11
How about a Top Speed test?
Can these cars reach 200 MPH?
BD
noobnox says:
07:57 PM, 04/13/11
1487-
Call me crazy, but I actually prefer the raspy sound of the Porsche engine to the jet engine whine of the LFA. Neither one compares to a Ferrari V12 imo..
zr1man says:
08:48 PM, 04/13/11
It's nice to know that my 2010 ZR1 will beat both these boys. 0-60 in 3.4 and ΒΌ mile at 11.3. The ZR1 costs a hole lot less and looks better too. Go figure.
Be Proud. Buy American
peakarach1 says:
08:52 PM, 04/13/11
LFA sound soo amazing out of this world, while GT2 sound like piece of shit.
cataztrophe says:
09:00 PM, 04/13/11
But could the LFA beat a Porsche 911 Turbo S since the Porsche has all-wheel drive, PDK, and launch control?
louiswei says:
09:01 PM, 04/13/11
@zr1man,
You do know that your PS3, where your ZR1 resides in, is made in Japan right?
If I were you I will throw that away ASAP, don't want any radiation in your house!
blackdynamite0 says:
09:14 PM, 04/13/11
I like all of these poseurs comparing cars with blowers, pipes, and chargers to a naturally-aspirated masterpiece!
Way to show your lack of breeding!
Rule #1 in building a Supercar:
No chargers, no blowers, no twisters, no Keebler elves under the hood, no tricks!
A supercar doesn't need help being super
It just is!
(Hence the lack of fawning when a GTR or ZR1 is around. WOMEN drool when an LFA rolls up!)
BD
lt1boy says:
09:22 PM, 04/13/11
The LFA is just another supercar for the GT-R to slay.
Even though the LFA is 300 lbs lighter and has more power, the GT-R has both a faster trap speed through the 1/4 mile ( 123.18 mph vs 124.1 mph) and a quicker time (11.6 vs 11.1). Also, the GT-R 's 60-0 and slalom numbers are just a few ticks away from equaling the more costly LFA. Skid-pad is the same, which is amazing, once again considering the GT-R's 300 lb extra weight. And on top of all that, the GT-R costs a mere 1/4th the price of the LFA.
Best of all though, is knowing that the only people who buy LFAs are complete tools who will never use it for its intended purpose.
LFAs are for the Paris Hiltons of the world, don't kid yourself.
louiswei says:
09:33 PM, 04/13/11
This just hit me...
Comparing the NA V10 LFA to turbo'd GT-R and supercharged ZR1 is like comparing a beautiful natural set of racks to a plastically-enhanced set...
All look good but not quiet.
blackdynamite0 says:
10:09 PM, 04/13/11
Lou
Consider who you're using that analogy on......
BD
panerai250 says:
04:15 AM, 04/14/11
@BD I put a set of Keebler elves under my hood,0-60/ 2.7, 1/4 10.8/130. Dont be dissing the elves,they be some bad mofo's.
2001gs430 says:
04:56 AM, 04/14/11
lt1boy
The GT-R is a great car with great AWD computerized magic, but where is the fun if everyone bought an GT-R? Why do people buy a Rolex while a digital Casio can tell time just as well or better?
wikiwiki says:
06:40 AM, 04/14/11
1487, you said the Lexus sounded bad too in the other post. What you are hearing is technology, sophistication, and refinement. Have fun listening to the Detroit gold chain ghetto turds you must love to hear.
kosmo69 says:
07:14 AM, 04/14/11
i agree w/ others in that despite all the CF 3500lb is not light.
lostboyz says:
07:19 AM, 04/14/11
lol at the N/A argument. All that F/I technology is blasphemy, but not the automated manuals, the electronic gizmos, and all the other tech. That single bit is what makes it better, gotcha.
a1c_scg says:
07:22 AM, 04/14/11
blackbynamite-
That's the number one rule for supercars, huh?? Says who?? WHO made that the number one rule??
Because whoever the hell the retard is has obviously never heard of the F40, 959, EB110, XJ220, Veyron, shall I continue?? I dare anyone w/ an ounce of logic in them to say that those aren't supercars because they used forced induction. What a stupid, stupid thing to say.
And you know, a lot of people could argue that it's not a supercar if it's not mid-engined. Or if it weighs over 3,500lb. Or insert your bogus reason here. Dumb.
compressor says:
08:00 AM, 04/14/11
@louiswei - I never said a driver of an automated manual car is less skilled. But, it takes less skill to shift one - I don't think that can be argued.
As for launching an F1 car - they are not made to "launch". If the engine throttling was programmed for it, then yes, anyone could launch one. Driving one is a different story.
I am not saying manuals are better or should be purchased if you like the alternative. All I am saying is that automated manuals takes a skill set out of driving --> this is why they were developed for racing and suit racing well. My personal needs in a street car are much different.
2001gs430 says:
08:17 AM, 04/14/11
a1c_scg
Actually the reason for not having a mid engined layout is due to the added safety provided to the driver when the car's limits is exceeded. Lexus wanted the driver to live another day to enjoy his/her toy is so dumb in my book.
Also, this setup resulted in the additional weight due to the much longer driveshaft and related supporting components.
bodyblue says:
08:44 AM, 04/14/11
"Best of all though, is knowing that the only people who buy LFAs are complete tools who will never use it for its intended purpose.
LFAs are for the Paris Hiltons of the world, don't kid yourself."
I was thinking last night about all of the venom from the GM shills and prostitutes on here and then I realized why they are so upset. Even though the ZR1 is probably faster and handles just as well there is no way anybody would pay 375K for ANY GM car. Even Ford was able to get 130K for a GT when they made them and had no problem selling every single one. When GM roars the world shrugs.
sniperruff says:
10:02 AM, 04/14/11
There is only ONE Porsche that sounds great:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE_WqdKbTvY
The LF-A is a great car in its own way, just like the ZR-1, GT-R, F40's etc.
shriker says:
10:24 AM, 04/14/11
Wow , really cool to see these two magnificent cars racing each other.
I consider myself a purist and love old school stuff as much as the next guy.....butt technology marches on.....for all those that think manual gearboxes are "the way it should be" ....the future is here , now. These new DCT's are the best of all worlds....autobox for casual driving or traffic or when you dont want to shift yourself, and a near perfect shifting manual when you do want to shift....perfect super quick upshifts and perfect rev matched down shifts ......almost NO loss in time. With the launch modes and 6-8 forward gear ratios to perfectly optimize an engine's powerband ......
Only an absolutely perfect launch with perfect shifts from a manual car are going to match a good DCT setup.
iskch says:
11:05 AM, 04/14/11
Porsche 'hiding fault codes" ? I Don't like that. Where is all the technology to alert you of any malfunction?
compressor says:
12:02 PM, 04/14/11
shriker,
DCT's only offer the best of both worlds in terms of performance. In a car I buy for the street I choose a manual transmission for the enjoyment they bring (and yes, I drive in traffic everyday - I live in LA). DCT's can be enjoyable in the way they work, but they will never provide the feel a manual does. Secondly, every DCT I drove is lacking in situations where I may consider an auto - in traffic (and all low speed situations)
I don't think manual gearboxes are "the way it should be". I like the technical achievement of DCT and think they have their place in certain cars. But I think in a car made for driver enjoyment, manuals should be available as an option. And lets not kid ourselves, streets cars (even those that are severely track oriented) are made for driving enjoyment. Race cars are made to go fast - enjoyment is not a consideration if it costs time.
But to each his own. One man's trash is anothers....
desmolicious says:
01:15 PM, 04/14/11
Big deal...
The 'regular' Porsche Turbo S ran 0-60 in 2.6 seconds
1/4 mile in 10.7 @ 128.9mph
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/car/2011-porsche-911-turbo-s-to-the-power-of-12
http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezflow_site/storage_RT_NEW/storage/original/application/dda2f0d6624fac4e9da8da059e7c3413.pdf
mkboyardee says:
03:48 PM, 04/14/11
God, the LFA is hideous.
It is beyond me that they used a GT2 RS, instead of the Turbo S, which costs half as much as the Lexus, and is significantly faster.
Keep trying, Lexus.
compressor says:
05:31 PM, 04/14/11
The Turbo S is not faster than the GT2RS. Its 0-60 and 1/4 mile may be quicker (or easier to perform test after test) but it is not faster. Roll both on at 60mph and then you will see how much more power the GT2 has.
As for the Lexus - I like it and I am glad Toyota produced it. We may not see another like it.
a1c_scg says:
02:17 PM, 04/15/11
2011gs430-
I'm disputing or debating the merits of a front-engined layout or why Lexus chose it. I was just pointing out that dismissing something as a non-supercar because of a random fact is stupid.
bimmerjay says:
07:25 PM, 04/15/11
"Only an absolutely perfect launch with perfect shifts from a manual car are going to match a good DCT setup."
Of course, but a DCT is still way less fun to drive. And even the best ones are still clunky at low speeds. Manual transmissions are all about tactility and driving enjoyment, not pure performance.
"Even though the ZR1 is probably faster and handles just as well there is no way anybody would pay 375K for ANY GM car. Even Ford was able to get 130K for a GT when they made them and had no problem selling every single one."
Actually, the GT sold new for $150K after Ford raised the MSRP and it was common to see markups of well over $30K. Only late in the model run did it essentially sell for sticker. Production ended early though, I think Ford built some 500 fewer than planned.
A well-equipped ZR1 stickers for about $122K, but Edmunds TMV shows it selling for up to $20K LESS than MSRP - which is actually even less than invoice. Add to that $3K in dealer rebates from GM, and it sounds like GM overestimated the price they could sell this for.
zr1man says:
09:15 PM, 04/15/11
louiswei
Look Louise, my ZR1 is the real deal. I don't play games.
Be Proud. Stay Alive. Buy American.
louiswei says:
09:28 PM, 04/15/11
zr1man,
It's past your bed time, go to sleep, the PS3 will be there tomorrow...
zr1man says:
10:03 PM, 04/15/11
BREAKING NEWS
Russia stops 50 radioactive cars from Japan
I posted weeks ago that cars from japan would be radioactive, now you can check it out for yourself on Yahoo News http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110414/wl_asia_afp/russiajapannucleardisasterauto
All I can say is "I told you so".
Be Proud. Stay Alive. Buy American.
mkboyardee says:
08:31 AM, 04/16/11
@zr1man, these cars will hold together way better than the Corvette, and all that speed must not count for much, considering this Porsche beat the ZR1 around the 'Ring by about 6 seconds. And it's still a Corvette.
mkboyardee says:
08:43 AM, 04/16/11
The Turbo S IS faster than the GT2 RS.
Turbo S:
0-60 mph: 2.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 10.8 seconds at 129 mph
GT2 RS:
0-60 mph: 3.4 seconds
1/4 mile: 11.3 seconds at 130.2
Granted, the GT2 has more power, and so has a higher trap speed, but the Turbo S's AWD really helps off the line (Plus, it's about half the price).
bodyblue says:
10:35 AM, 04/17/11
"A well-equipped ZR1 stickers for about $122K, but Edmunds TMV shows it selling for up to $20K LESS than MSRP "
Performance Chevrolet here in Sac is selling them for 12K off the sticker.....
vache1 says:
11:56 PM, 04/18/11
Wake me up when this whole LFA thing ends. As much as I like this supercar, Josh & Chris have been drinking too much of that Toyota (Lexus) kool-aid lately.
Anti-LFA (but loyal Edmunds readers) unite!
dixiecup says:
07:42 PM, 04/20/11
If I were rich enough to pick between one of these pretty machines I'de probably go for the one that offers a true M/T. The car that gives more opportunity to interact with the focus of attention would provide me the most joy. Sure sailboats are more work to operate than a motor boat, but life has thought me that for certain things more work often means more pleasure ;) The LFA looks great in black.
contheon says:
11:35 AM, 04/23/11
They both look slow.
How about some elapse times?