2011 BMW 1 Series M Coupe: 335-Horsepower, $45,000

This is written as if $45K is somehow supposed to be inexpensive. It's not. That's a lot of money for a little car.

In this economy I have to wonder how many 30 year olds there are that can (or should) spend $45K on a car like this.

It is fast and likely drives nice but it's homely and awkward looking on the outside and bland on the inside. Not my choice if I were to spend that much.

I don't know, it looks like an expensive aftermarket body kit, although no more so than the original M3. However, that was the 1980's and I expect more these days.

This car is just ugly. The character line on the side fairly resembles Jonah Hill's back fat.

Again, E46 M3 or E39 M5 for me. If I want a 1er, I'll get a 128i M Sport for around $33K

I dunno. The price doesn't bug me all that much to get this kind of performance. But gawd it's chintzy looking. For those not "in the know" it looks like a $20k car.

Hmmmmm... what are some other options for $45k?

Audi S4

Fully decked out Camaro SS, Mustang GT (Hell, a Boss 302...) or a Challenger SRT8

Might be able to get a good price on a base Corvette or a Shelby GT 500, but they run about $48k

Porsche Boxster

Personally, I'd rather take a Golf R and pocket the extra (approximately) $13k.

@firstwagon,

"In this economy I have to wonder how many 30 year olds there are that can (or should) spend $45K on a car like this."

heh... I'm 30 years old and pulled off a well-loaded S5. Granted, I saved up quite a bit over the past two years and was able to get the payments down to a very comfortable amount. I also have a completely paid-off 2004 A4 3.0 quattro ;)

Car payments are for the birds.

questionlp

But what sort of house do you own?

@firstwagon,

I rent an apartment.

@first, did you have to ask?

That said, my first BMW was in 2003, it had a 44k sticker and I was 29. With a house. :P

The price doesn't seem awful except that the 135i is essentially the same car for 9k less.

Is conducted quickly and probably good, but it is simple and delicate looking at the outside and soft inside. This is not my choice if I had to spend much.
http://www.thetop10guide.net/top-10-american-cars.html

I'm with roadburner. A lightly used E46 M3 is a true enthusiast's car for many thousands less. Plus it's a beautiful car; this thing is fugly.

-Rod

no thanks, not worth the price tag for that ugly beast

look at that interior. Its not even better than a $25k Mustang. Thats all they did to the bland interior for $45k? Considering the hp available in the 370Z, Camaro SS and Mustang GT the power of this car isnt that impressive for the price. When a Mustang GT or Camaro SS offer over 400hp for about $32k this still seems expensive. I'd think the Z28 will start around $45k while offering performance that should make this car seem even more overpriced.

The 135i can already be priced to about 50 grand so I'd expect this to $55k+ with all the bells and whistles.

Everyone seems to be shocked about the price of the car. It is a BMW. When have they ever offered a car that has been in the same price range as a Ford or Chevy pony car? Never. We all want an 1 Series M car that is priced the same as a 128 ($28k). Not going to happen. Have our cake and eat it too?

In comparison for pricing, in 1989, a M3 cost $35k Base MSRP. That translates to $60K + in today's money. A 1989 325 cost $25K Base MSRP or roughtly $42K in today's money. In the history of things, I don't think that a Base MSRP $45k for this car is out of line for BMW.

1487 - Have you even sat in a 1 Series? The quality of the plastics and the seats are better in the 1 series vs the Mustang. Do you expect to be sitting in a 7 series when you are getting in a BMW of any size? This is the entry level for BMW (excluding MINI) and it is not going to be over designed and have 1,000 bells and whistles. I like the minimal design. It doesn't distract you from the job that you are supposed to be doing, driving.

Don't get me wrong, I like the Mustang. Great bang for the buck. But if you want to complain about interiors, with the Mustang, you get the same interior in the $25K V6 version vs. the $50K Shelby GT500.

Comparing the 1 series to the Mustang and the Camaro, the 135 is 230 lbs lighter than the mustang and 500 lbs lighter than the Camaro. That also shows up in the 0-60 times and the slalom speeds. The 135 is faster to 60 than the Mustang and faster in the slalom than both of them. (All of these numbers come from R&T). I am sure that the numbers are going to be different for the 1 Series M coupe.

I love the outside of the Camaro but can't stand the instrument pannel or the outward view. Great engine but I don't think that I could live with it on a day to day basis.

The question is: Is it worth the extra money over the 135i to get the M Coupe? Probably not. But if you wait a few years and find one used, you will have a bargan performer like used E46 M3s are now. Prices are coming down on used E92 M3s. I found some for $40K online with a manual. If you want a performance BMW but aren't willing to pay for a new one, find a used M3 a couple of years old that someone has already paid for the depreciation and have fun.

It is going to come down to personal preference. I love small cars that are powerful and nimble. This car reminds me of the 1989 325is that I used to own. I would love to have that car back. If I could afford this car right now, I would buy it. Otherwise, I am going to takem my own advise and wait until I can find one used.

"Everyone seems to be shocked about the price of the car. It is a BMW. "

unfortunately that doesn't cut it anymore. The margins for reliability and quality are very slim these days, you aren't getting anything all that special anymore. Also, for it being a BMW, the style isn't there and that interior is barren.

"Comparing the 1 series to the Mustang and the Camaro"

I assume you are comparing them to the v6 mustang and camaro, though for the price you should be looking at the v8s. Last time I checked the mustang gt was on par with an m3.

"But if you want to complain about interiors, with the Mustang, you get the same interior in the $25K V6 version vs. the $50K Shelby GT500."

It's a nice interior and they keep across all models, rather than obviously skimping on this 1 series. I have been in both and the 1 series materials are no better or worse than the mustang. You get a lot more features on a premium mustang as well.

yes, I've been in the 1 series- all hard plastic. Nothing luxurious about it. If you think its better inside than the Mustang I can only presume you haven't been in the 2010 model. The current mustang actually has soft touch surfaces on the upper dash. The 1 series has materials that woudlnt be out of place on a Corolla. On top of that the design is beyond forgettable.

The Mustang GT has consistently hit 0-60 in 4.6 to 4.8 secs and that is faster than the 135i, not slower. Furthermore it LOOKS better inside and out and has a great V8 soundtrack while the BMW has nothing notable coming from the exhaust pipes- its a turbo 6 afterall.

BTW, the interiors in the Shelby and base Mustang are not the same. The Mustang has an optional interior packages which gives you premium finishes- in other words the standard car has a basic black cabin with hard plastics and no aluminum trim.

Mustang GT is a lot of big car and big performance for the money - 32k. Compared to a 135i the GT is really a great performance bargain. But for me it's too darn big. I have little interest in a massive coupe like that. Ditto, little interest in a 1 series M with a 45k price tag. At 32k the Mustang GT is more attractive on the pocket book and in terms of raw performance. But, I'd rather a 128 or used 135 in the 20s.

$45K isn't that bad, assuming that there are only those two option packages. A 135i coupe starts at about $36K and once you add (assumed) comparable options, it's only going to be about $5K less than this 1-Series M Coupe. I think that's reasonable for a substantial performance upgrade. I have both an E92 M3 coupe and a 135i M Sport convertible. Yes, the M3 has a nicer interior as it should, but my loaded 1 has pretty much all the same content that comes on a regular 3-Series and it's more fun to drive. Better brakes too.

The Mustang is often compared to the 1-Series. For bang for the buck, the Mustang cannot be beat. If that's what I was looking for, I'd have no problem buying a loaded-up GT with a manual transmission. The performance is great. However, the Mustang certainly doesn't have the refinement, the interior quality, or the feature content of the 1-Series. I felt the ride and handling, transmission, and noise levels and quality were better on the 1. I like a LOT of feature content on my daily drivers, and that was significantly missing for me on the Mustang. Things like a fully automatic top with a hard boot, automatic wipers, adaptive bi-xenon headlights with auto high beams, BMW Assist with Connected Drive, free real-time traffic, a Bluetooth system that actually works well with the top down, advanced auto climate, power folding mirrors, amazing sport seats with adjustable bolsters and thigh extenders, keyless starting and access, better 3D nav system with buildings, lane guidance and smart intersection previews and satellite-image surfacing, Voice Command, included maintenance, etc. Overall my 1'er cost about $8K more than a comparable GT convertible, and the difference was only like $4-5K with European Delivery (not including trip cost).

As for this 1-Series M Coupe, I'm really looking forward to driving one but I'm a little disappointed with the engine spec. Granted the N54 is fun but I was hoping for something more on the horsepower front. The body kit is not really my style (I think the M3 looks better) but maybe it'll grow on me, though I could certainly live with it. I like the interior. Subdued finishes, purposeful, high-quality and functional. It's what ///M interiors have always been and that's perfect for me.

As others have pointed out, the interior of this thing has all the charm of Mordor. The car is just ugh, really, even on the used market, since a used 1-series is still worse than a used anything else. And more expensive. There are an unlimited amount of fun cars available at a similar price point, off the lot or on the side of the road. Just stay away from this thing.

Ummmm...I like the color.

"As others have pointed out, the interior of this thing has all the charm of Mordor"

I laughed out loud at that one. Good God the Cruze has a nicer interior (looking) than this thing. All it needs is for "Ride of the Valkries" to be playing on the stereo and a little guy with a toothbrush mustache driving it.

bimmerjay:

HAve you ever been in a current Mustang? What "interior quality" is there to speak of in the 1 series? None. The CC has a better interior than the 1 series in terms of design and material choices. The 135 had rock hard plastics throughout- I specifically remember checking it out at the NY auto show a few years back when it was new. The dash is hard, up close the interior is about what you would expect on a mass market family sedan. Its not premium, its not nice to look at and its not above average. As I noted, the Mustang actually has soft touch materials on the upper dash and armrests. In fact, I believe every Ford except the Fiesta and Focus has more soft touch material inside than the 1 series. It doesn't seem like they changed much on the 1 M coupe and thus the interior is lackluster for a $45k car.

German car lovers always fall back on the "refinement" issue when trying to put down other cars. Where have you read the Mustang is even remotely unrefined? It has a high tech DOCH V8, decent ride, great brakes and a nice transmission. What is lacking in terms of refinement? Sure the rear suspension is dated but ALL the reviews have said you cannot tell the car is lacking a modern IRS from behind the wheel.

There are features the 1 series has that the Mustang lacks and Vice versa. Obviously the 135 lacks a 412hp V8, 8" nav screen, Sync, on board hard drive, 19" wheels, Brembo brakes, rear view camera, LED tail lights, glass roof option, etc.

"HAve you ever been in a current Mustang? What "interior quality" is there to speak of in the 1 series? None. The CC has a better interior than the 1 series in terms of design and material choices. The 135 had rock hard plastics throughout- I specifically remember checking it out at the NY auto show a few years back when it was new."

I owned an '01 Mustang GT and I cross-shopped a 2010 GT Premium convertible when I got my '10 1-Series. My sister-in-law has a 2009 Mustang V6 MT and I've rented '08-10 V6 convertibles at least 3 or 4 times. My father has owned multiple Mustangs. I'm glad you sat in a 135i for 20 seconds "a few years ago" at an auto show but I've actually owned one for a year now.

"There are features the 1 series has that the Mustang lacks and Vice versa."

Not really, no. The Mustang has next to nothing that actually costs more money than what the 1 has.

"Obviously the 135 lacks a 412hp V8"

- The 135i is almost as fast as the Mustang GT. Yes the V8 is nice, I'll concede excellent engine performance out of the 5.0 but the N54 has been excellent as well. The N54 is not a cheap engine and if anything it actually costs more to make.

"8" nav screen"

- You're right, but the nav screen in my 135i is an 8.8" 16:9 high-def widescreen that supports 1280 pixel resolution. It is a far better screen than the Mustang's.

"Sync, on board hard drive"

- My 135i has a 40 GB HDD with music storage capability. The nav is HDD-based. The new iDrive is easily comparable to SYNC and offers a lot of functionality that SYNC doesn't. I have Connected Drive, can send nav destinations to my car from any internet connection, and with the newest software will support Bluetooth streaming audio, and texts/emails can be synced to your phone by voice. SYNC is not a competitive advantage for the Mustang.

"Brembo brakes"

- The brakes on the 135i are simply not-branded - BMW never does that even on the ///M cars, that doesn't mean the Mustang "offers" something the 1 does not by branding them Brembos. My M Sport's brakes are phenomenal and would stand toe-to-toe with aftermarket Brembo units. Brembo makes OEM products that are not branded, so you're not necessarily getting anything special.

"19" wheels"

- 19" wheels are not offered on the 135i, though my 18" M Sport wheels probably cost more than the Mustang's 19's.

"rear view camera, LED tail lights, glass roof option, etc. "

- The 135i does have parking sensors, LED taillights with auxiliary panic brake lights, and welcome lighting that fades all the exterior lights on and off plus LED license plate lights. A moonroof is standard on the 135i. On the convertibles, the 135i's top is triple-lined, fully automatic, has a powered hard boot, metallic weave in the top to give it a nicer look, offers key-off operation via the remote from outside the car, and can be operated up to 20 mph. The Mustang offered none of that, its top was crude by comparison (manual latches, soft boot, louder on the road, cheaper materials).

When I cross-shopped, there is virtually nothing content-wise the Mustang GT offers that the 1 does not. The ability to change colors of the interior lighting and the more powerful available audio system are pretty much the only unique features that would add cost to the Mustang over the 135i. Ooh and front fog lights, my M Sport doesn't have those.

"German car lovers always fall back on the "refinement" issue when trying to put down other cars. Where have you read the Mustang is even remotely unrefined? "

I didn't say the Mustang was unrefined. But the 135i offers more refinement. Refinement is achieved incrementally and usually at great expense. If you don't understand nor appreciate this than we have nothing to discuss. It's offered for people who want it and that's why BMW exists - very refined performance. A Mustang offers bang for the buck because you get most of the performance at less cost, but you do not get the levels of refinement or content. It is simply a fact of building to a lower price-point.

Yeah, what bimmerjay said! Pfffffffffffft!

Yeah, what bimmerjay said! Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft!

damn, commenting system

"The 135i is almost as fast as the Mustang GT. Yes the V8 is nice, I'll concede excellent engine performance out of the 5.0 but the N54 has been excellent as well. The N54 is not a cheap engine and if anything it actually costs more to make."

Your almost fast seems a bit generous, I assumed you know Motor Trend put the 5.0 vs M3 and the 5.0 is faster. What you are saying is the 135i is pretty much as fast as M3?

The refinement issue is hard to compared, orange and apple. Someone is going to say their Corolla has the best interior. But, the 2011 GT is a bit different than the 2010 model you mentioned, with the rapid spec 401A.

From Road & Track Testing

2011 Ford Mustang
w/Glass roof, Brembo pkg, comfort pkg, HID Lights, security alarm, backup camera.
Price as tested - $39,680
0 - 60 4.6 seconds, 0 - 80 7.5 seconds, Slalom speed 70.6 mph, 1/4 Mile 13.2 seconds, braking distance from 60 mph 116 ft

2008 BMW 135i
w/Premium Package, sport package, premium sound, satellite radio, heated seats, comfort access system, iPod adaptor, HD radio.
$43,670
0 - 60 4.8 seconds, 0 - 80 8.1 seconds, Slalom speed 70.6 mph, 1/4 mile 13.4 seconds, braking distance from 60 mph 114 ft

2008 BMW M3
$70,395
w/EDC, Mdrive, Gas Guzzler tax
0 - 60 4.1 seconds, 0 - 80 6.6 seconds, Slalom speed 71.4 mph, 1/4 mile 12.5 seconds, braking distance from 60 mph 112 ft

We can crunch number all you want. They tell only one part of the equation. Emotions play another part. Some people like Mustangs and some like BMWs. Personal preference. I can't tell you what you should spend your money one and I don't expect you to tell me what I should do either.

I would have never loaded the 135 up with the premium package or the comfort access. I can price it to around $40K for what I want. They are much closer in price now and there isn't much difference in perofrmance. I just happen to like BMWs and how they feel when I drive them.

To each his/her own.

"Your almost fast seems a bit generous, I assumed you know Motor Trend put the 5.0 vs M3 and the 5.0 is faster. What you are saying is the 135i is pretty much as fast as M3?"

I was actually referring only to acceleration since we were comparing engines, but yes I read about that. That was one particular track of course, the time differences would vary depending on what kind of track it is. The Mustang has very powerful acceleration and a lot of grip, whereas the M3 has immense balance and grip but less acceleration. For Car and Driver's lightning lap at VIR, the M3 did it in 3:05 versus the Mustang GT w/Track Pack at 3:13 (the M3 even beat the Cayman S and 911 Carerra S by a hair). Different tracks, different results.

bimmerjay says:

03:12 PM, 12/10/10

"I was actually referring only to acceleration since we were comparing engines, but yes I read about that."

Yes, that's what I meant. I am not talking about the Streets of Willow portion, in fact the 5.0 is slower than M3 about a 10th.

Launching two cars in the same time in the drag strip, that's not comparing apple to orange. It's the drag strip that the 5.0 faster than the M3, although barely even with photo.

There is no track/pack for 2011, only 2010 MY. I am not sure what you are trying to compare. 2010 GT has track pack, if that's why you referred to.

okay so for an extra $15k over a mustang you get a few more toys and a slower car with a much larger depreciation. Oh wait I forgot, you get bmw 'refinement'

Or for twice the cost you get an m3, that on some tracks the mustang can tie, other tracks its a little slower. Again you get this unquantifiable 'refinement' you speak of.

You are buying the badge, depreciation, and unreliability. Is refinement worth that to you?

Will anyone stand up and say the 1 is better looking than the Mustang? If you are looking for a "refined" looking car, the BMW does not fit that bill at all. It looks like a morphed Nike.

"We can crunch number all you want. They tell only one part of the equation. Emotions play another part. Some people like Mustangs and some like BMWs. Personal preference. I can't tell you what you should spend your money one and I don't expect you to tell me what I should do either."

Exactly. I priced a 2010 Mustang optioned to my specs- over $38,000. I wouldn't pay $38,000 for a Mustang GT but likewise I wouldn't pay $43,000 for an ///M badged 1er. The V8 Mustangs are great cars, but they just don't give me a gotta-have-it vibe. The E46 M3 and E39 M5 do, however- but to each his own...

"For Car and Driver's lightning lap at VIR, the M3 did it in 3:05 versus the Mustang GT w/Track Pack at 3:13 (the M3 even beat the Cayman S and 911 Carerra S by a hair). Different tracks, different results."

That was the 315hp 2010 GT. Are you even aware of the changes made to the 2011 car?? Hell the 2010 Camaro SS did it in 3.09.5. Meanwhile the 135i is down at 3:13.7. The Cobalt SS turbo pulled a 3:13, btw....

"I'm glad you sat in a 135i for 20 seconds "a few years ago" at an auto show but I've actually owned one for a year now. "

Are the plastics soft now? Didnt think so. I'm not sure how long I have to sit in an interior to determine if the materials are worthy of a luxury car. I could've sat in there for 6 months straight and the dash still would've been cheap.

"- 19" wheels are not offered on the 135i, though my 18" M Sport wheels probably cost more than the Mustang's 19's."

Um- OK. What was your point there?

"- The 135i is almost as fast as the Mustang GT. Yes the V8 is nice, I'll concede excellent engine performance out of the 5.0 but the N54 has been excellent as well. The N54 is not a cheap engine and if anything it actually costs more to make."

None of that is relevant to my point. I said the Mustang had features not found on the BMW- simple as that. I didnt attempt to estimate how much the features on each car cost to manufacture.

"I didn't say the Mustang was unrefined. But the 135i offers more refinement. Refinement is achieved incrementally and usually at great expense. If you don't understand nor appreciate this than we have nothing to discuss. It's offered for people who want it and that's why BMW exists - very refined performance. A Mustang offers bang for the buck because you get most of the performance at less cost, but you do not get the levels of refinement or content. It is simply a fact of building to a lower price-point."

A lot of typing to prove nothing. Your specialty of course. You provided NO basis for your claims that the BMW is more refined. How about noise levels? Ride quality? Build quality? You cannot list one objective area in which the BMW is more refined because your assertion is based strictly on your personal opinion and your belief that anything BMW offers is automatically superior to what other brands do. If you prefer BMW that is fine, but don't try to speak on the refinement issue as if its factual. You would say a BMW is more refined than anything that's not German. IN 2010, refinement is expected in cheap cars, much less $40k luxury coupes. There is no evidence that you have to pay big money to get refinement these days.

"When I cross-shopped, there is virtually nothing content-wise the Mustang GT offers that the 1 does not. The ability to change colors of the interior lighting and the more powerful available audio system are pretty much the only unique features that would add cost to the Mustang over the 135i. Ooh and front fog lights, my M Sport doesn't have those."

I named several features that the Mustang has that the 135i lacks.

"I would have never loaded the 135 up with the premium package or the comfort access. I can price it to around $40K for what I want. They are much closer in price now and there isn't much difference in perofrmance. I just happen to like BMWs and how they feel when I drive them."

At $39k a Mustang GT is fully loaded At $43k a 135i is hardly loaded. The price gap between comparably equipped cars is probably around $10k. Thats a major savings if you get the Mustang and you arent giving up anything in performance.

"Different tracks, different results."

Different Mustangs too. You should know that. The 2011 Mustang is almost as fast as the M3 on a track. Both cars were balanced according to the driver- he just said the M3 had better front shock control. He also said the Mustang's superior torque made up for any slight handling deficiencies on the track.

kevm:

Exactly, the new Mustang should beat the Camaro at VIR which would put it within a few seconds of the M3. Of course the M3 they tested was over $65k and a well equipped Mustang is about $35k. I'm not sure how you prove anything by bragging about how the M3 beat the 2010 Mustang in Lightning Lap considering the price gap and the fact that the 2010 had 315hp and a 5 speed transmission. The heavy Camaro was only 4 secs slower and it costs about 30 grand less than the M3. I think its safe to say the GT500 and Camaro SS will be capable of catching or passing the M3's lap time.

"- You're right, but the nav screen in my 135i is an 8.8" 16:9 high-def widescreen that supports 1280 pixel resolution. It is a far better screen than the Mustang's."

Whats the resolution on the Mustang's screen? I didnt know the 135 had a 9" screen but I presume that was added in recent years.

Again, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the 135i costs thousands more- even if the two cars offer the same features it still costs at least $8k-$10k more. It should at least have the same features for its price.

"The 135i does have parking sensors, LED taillights with auxiliary panic brake lights, and welcome lighting that fades all the exterior lights on and off plus LED license plate lights. A moonroof is standard on the 135i. On the convertibles, the 135i's top is triple-lined, fully automatic, has a powered hard boot, metallic weave in the top to give it a nicer look, offers key-off operation via the remote from outside the car, and can be operated up to 20 mph."

I wasn't talking about the convertibles, I was talking about the coupes. The Mustang's roof is appropriate for its price- its not a luxury car and the convertible model is MUCH cheaper than the 135i drop top. I haven't seen anything suggesting the 135 has LED tail lights. Does it say this on the BMW website? I thought BMW started using LED tail lights with the new 7 series. I don't even think the X6 has LED tail lights. Perhaps you are right but until I see another one on the street I'm not convinced. I haven't seen it in the specs.

"I wasn't talking about the convertibles, I was talking about the coupes. "

Well I was, equipped as close as I could to my 135i, an '11 Mustang GT Premium convertible MSRP is a few bucks under $45K. My 135i is just under $51K MSRP. So the prices aren't that far off considering my 135i easily has thousands more in equipment, including a way better roof system, adaptive lighting, automatic wipers, car and key memory system, keyless access and starting, BMW Assist telematics/Connected Drive, included maintenance, Voice Command, park assist, more seating adjustments, power folding mirrors, all 3 auto dimming mirrors, dual knee airbags, smart dual-zone auto climate with automatic recirc and heat or ventilate-at-rest, etc.

"I thought BMW started using LED tail lights with the new 7 series. I don't even think the X6 has LED tail lights."

All current BMWs have LED taillights. Many have LED brake lights as well but not all.

"Exactly. I priced a 2010 Mustang optioned to my specs- over $38,000. I wouldn't pay $38,000 for a Mustang GT but likewise I wouldn't pay $43,000 for an ///M badged 1er. The V8 Mustangs are great cars, but they just don't give me a gotta-have-it vibe."

Makes sense, and I think that's what it largely comes down to. For me the Mustang didn't offer what I was ultimately looking for in a daily driver - the refinement/polish (that rear axle still does nasty things in corners on undulating pavement) and higher levels of equipment. For others it's perfect and the money savings is worth it.

Just because you put BMW in front of something its just TCS/ESP, I get maitenance on my mustang, ford has sync, ford has back up camera, "more seating adjustments" lol, cars don't need power folding mirrors, ford has auto dual zone

There you go again 'refinement' explain what that means so I can see how you are putting a dollar amount to it. I have hit a lot of rough pavement and don't know what 'nasty things' you are refering to. If you mean that it stays level and powers through, then yes that is quite nasty.

Wow I just went to price a 135i, you have to pay for 'active steering' $1550, for something that is already built into all cars with electronic steering. You have to pay $150 for your radio to let you connect to your phone, lol $204 for an ipod cable. Basically I just built a car with all the options you are talking about this car having and it comes in at $53k + TTL and delivery. I think I missed the hardtop option, that must be more money. I must not be refined enough to understand why I would want a slow expensive car that has low reliability. Is that what rich people want?

"you have to pay for 'active steering' $1550, for something that is already built into all cars with electronic steering."

Active Steering actually changes the steering ratio; most enthusiasts don't want it. Regardless, I just built a 135i convertible on the BMW NA site with the Cold Weather, Convenience, M Sport, Premium, and Value packages. The only other options were Harman-Kardon audio and satellite radio. The MSRP was $48,050. Note that if you use Edmund's site it will allow you to pay twice for options if you chose one that is included in a package you have already selected.

"I must not be refined enough to understand why I would want a slow expensive car that has low reliability. Is that what rich people want?"

Well, I wouldn't pay $48,000 for a 135i drop top, but as I stated earlier, I wouldn't pay $38,000 for a Mustang GT either. A car has to be extremely special for me to spend over $35,000. As for the 135i convertible being slow, CD coaxed a 4.8 second 0-60 and a 13.6 second quarter out of their test car. Not hyper quick, but far better than my Mazdaspeed, which hits 60 from a standstill in 5.4 seconds and runs the quarter in 14 seconds- now THAT is slow.
You know, I've owned nine(soon to be ten) BMWs yet I've never felt the need to criticize Mustangs- or their drivers. I actually think they are nice cars- I'd be driving a 2008 Bullitt instead of my MS3 were it not for a greedy dealer- but in general they just aren't for me. I wonder why the converse isn't true?

I think BMWs are great cars, but unfortunately times have changed and you can get the same if not better quality and reliability out of 'lower' brands. So all I really have a problem with is the price. Maybe if someone can tell me what this so called refinement is then we can talk about how much it is worth. I have ridden in plenty of bmws over the years and I can't say it was any different then any other car half its price.

I know what active steering is, and actually it is a great feature, comes standard on the mustang.

Also, I built mine on bmw's website. I tried to be as accurate as possible adding all the features bimmerjay was saying the car had.

bimmrerjayL

Arent your prices for ED? If that be the case is disingenuous to compare those prices to standard Mustang prices. You said earlier you didnt factor in travel costs into the ED price. Thats not really fair sense those costs are part of the purchasing experience. That would make the gap larger than the $6k.

Glad all BMWs have LED tail lights. Every new Cadillac has had them since the DTS in 2000. Lincoln has had them on all models (except the TC which doesnt count) for years as well. I'm shocked LEDs arent a $500 option on BMWs.

A loaded 135i is under $50k- but just barely. That's still $9k more than a loaded Mustang hard top. A lot of money for memory seats and power folding mirrors. At least the 1 series is a better deal because I know some of those features BJ mentioned were not on the car a few years ago- and yet it cost just as much as it does now.

"1487 - Have you even sat in a 1 Series? The quality of the plastics and the seats are better in the 1 series vs the Mustang. Do you expect to be sitting in a 7 series when you are getting in a BMW of any size? This is the entry level for BMW (excluding MINI) and it is not going to be over designed and have 1,000 bells and whistles. I like the minimal design. It doesn't distract you from the job that you are supposed to be doing, driving."

LOL, typical BMW fanboy response. A nice interior "distracts" you from driving? If that be the case why do the 5 and 7 and X6 have nice interiors? The idea that a sporty car should have nothing more than a basic black plastic interior because its a "serious driver's car" is nonsense. Don't Porsche and Ferrari models have expertly crafted interiors with expensive materials and detailed stitching? Are they not driver's cars?

For $45k, I'd just get a CPO'ed E92 M3, a E46 M3, a Z4 M, the choices are endless.

Hell, I'd even look for a good 8-Series and mod it.

$45k for a 1-Series is laughable.

"Wow I just went to price a 135i, you have to pay for 'active steering' $1550, for something that is already built into all cars with electronic steering. You have to pay $150 for your radio to let you connect to your phone, lol $204 for an ipod cable. Basically I just built a car with all the options you are talking about this car having and it comes in at $53k + TTL and delivery. I think I missed the hardtop option, that must be more money."

Active steering varies the amount you turn the wheel as speeds change. Very few cars have this and a lot of people don't necessarily like it. I don't have it on my car. The $150 Smartphone integration lets your iPhone or compatible device use the car's built-in cell phone antenna. It also syncs the music collection wirelessly. You do not need this option to link up your address book and use the Bluetooth system. I'm not sure where you get $204 for an "iPod cable", but the USB/iPod adapter is included at no cost. Also, there is no hardtop option.

The exact 2011 MY price for my car including all the features I referred to is $50,150, including delivery, not ~$53,000.

"I must not be refined enough to understand why I would want a slow expensive car that has low reliability. Is that what rich people want?"

4.8-5.0 seconds to 60 is slow? What other cars competitive with this one offer similar performance? As for reliability, no I don't think it's as reliable as a Lexus, but low reliability is a far stretch. In my personal experience owning several different BMWs over the last 6 years, I've had significantly fewer problems than the Fords or Mazdas I've owned over similar time frames.

"Arent your prices for ED? If that be the case is disingenuous to compare those prices to standard Mustang prices. You said earlier you didnt factor in travel costs into the ED price."

No, my $50,150 price is US MSRP. European Delivery MSRP would be about 7% less, so figure between $46-47K.

As I said, active steering is built into fords EPS, and most new EPS systems. Again sync does all that bluetooth stuff for free, it doesn't cost bmw to add that feature to your car, it turns it on.

for the $400 ipod cable, from BMWs site

"The Ipod adaptor offers the ability to simply and easily integrate selected ipod models and other selected MP3 players into the vehicle's audio system. Once connected the MP3 unit is fully contrallable through the audio interface. You can then enjoy your personalized music selections delivered with the full audio capabilites and refinement of the BMW sound system."

I didn't mean slow, I meant slow for a ~$50k car. Also the reliability is low for a premium brand, but you don't hear people complaining because of the service. Which you can say is free, but you just paid for it up front. Anecdotal evidence about your car ownership unfortunately doesn't mean anything.

Also, if there is no hardtop option, I fail to see how it has a better top than a mustang. Personally I don't like convertibles, especially in sporty cars since it adds weight complexity and reduces rigidity. Just another reason I wouldn't get a 135 I guess.

"Personally I don't like convertibles, especially in sporty cars since it adds weight complexity and reduces rigidity."

I hate them. Ditto for sunroofs.

"As I said, active steering is built into fords EPS, and most new EPS systems. Again sync does all that bluetooth stuff for free, it doesn't cost bmw to add that feature to your car, it turns it on. "

I don't think you understand the different the systems. Ford's EPS uses a fixed steering gear with electric assist that varies the steering effort at different speeds. All BMWs have speed-sensitive variable assist as standard, whether EPS or hydraulic steering is fitted. BMW's active steering is a hydraulic system that varies the ratio of the steering gear based on vehicle speed. It has nothing to do with effort. At slow speeds, turning the wheel a quarter turn might respond with the equivalent of turning the wheel an entire turn at higher speeds. It adds high-speed stability and low-speed maneuverability. A lot of people love it but a lot of enthusiasts don't like the unnatural sensation. Ford's EPS system does not have this capability, very few cars do at any price.

SYNC does not allow the phone's handset to use the car's external antenna, because Ford cars don't have integrated cellular antennas that can support both GSM and CDMA systems. SYNC does offer wireless Bluetooth streaming audio, but AFAIK your music stays on the phone. When I used it, it did not transfer to the car's HDD.

"for the $400 ipod cable, from BMWs site"

That's only if your car didn't come with it. The 2011 135i comes with the iPod and USB jacks and cables at no charge - it's listed in the "Packages" section when you 'Build Your Own'.

"I didn't mean slow, I meant slow for a ~$50k car."

So what other highly-optioned $50K cars are faster than 4.8 seconds 0-60 that offer a similar package? 60-0 braking in 108 feet? Sure you can get Mustang GT500's and Corvettes and other fast cars, but they make other compromises along the way. When you compare like-for-like, I don't see what else there is in this price range that is much faster or offers much better overall performance.

"Also the reliability is low for a premium brand, but you don't hear people complaining because of the service. Which you can say is free, but you just paid for it up front."

I didn't say the service was free, I said it was included in the $50K price. If you have included maintenance on your car then you paid extra for it, the $45K price for the Mustang I spec'd did not list it as included.

"Also, if there is no hardtop option, I fail to see how it has a better top than a mustang. Personally I don't like convertibles, especially in sporty cars since it adds weight complexity and reduces rigidity. Just another reason I wouldn't get a 135 I guess. "

I was comparing my own buying experience, you certainly don't have to get a convertible. I got an M3 coupe instead of a convertible for that very reason - reduced weight and increased rigidity. But the 1-Series' top is much better than the Mustang's. It has an extra material layer to it and a more premium headliner. The outer layer of the top has a metallic thread that adds a sheen - the Mustang's is just a conventional flat fabric. The BMW top has fully automatic latches that engage and disengage themselves from the windshield header, so you literally just hit the top button and 100% of the operation is automatic. It has a powered hard boot lid as well. The Mustang requires you to undue manual header latches, power the top down, then get out to install a soft boot cover if you don't want to see the folded top. The 1 also has operation from the remote fob so you can put the windows and up or down from outside car. It's great to have on really hot days.

"Just because you put BMW in front of something its just TCS/ESP, I get maitenance on my mustang, ford has sync, ford has back up camera, "more seating adjustments" lol, cars don't need power folding mirrors, ford has auto dual zone"

Power folding mirrors are great when getting into tight spots. You can scoff at features you don't want, that's fine. A lot of that stuff is optional, don't get it then. Ford has dual zone climate control, but it doesn't offer automatic air recirculation, automatic defrosting based on humidity and windshield sensors, intensity control (5 settings), multiple sun sensors for top up and down operation (I believe Mustang has one), key-off heat-at-rest or parked car ventilation operation (can be programmed to come on at any time), discreet air-temperature regulation among the different vent levels, and auto mirror heating. That's what I meant by advanced ATC versus just a typical system.

You guys want to hear why the car costs more beyond the badge, well that stuff is why. You might not care about any of that crap but there's actually substance behind much of the cost. Not everything of course, as there definitely is a premium for the BMW brand name.

One other thing I forgot when comparing the convertibles - BMW has an active pop-up rollover protection system hidden in the rear head restraints, Mustang has nothing.

bimmerjay,

I had a 645Ci press loaner equipped with Active Steering. I was playing WRC driver on my gravel driveway with it and if you kicked the tail out too far the car would actually countersteer on it's own- without moving the steering wheel one bit. I suppose it's a nice feature for a 5er or 7er driver, but there's no way I'd order it on a BMW- even if it was free...

So for all that extra money you get a bunch of sensor to make things automatic, versus pressing a button.

I don't see how changing the gearing is better than just stiffening the response. They both do the same thing, but one is intuitive one isn't. Also hydraulic steering? Not very cutting edge there.

I've never had a problem getting a cell signal inside my car as compared to outside it, adding an antenna is a gimmick. And yes the music stays on the phone, but seeing as I always have my phone while I drive its a moot point. I keep all my music on a 32gb thumb drive in the center console anyway.

In the first 4 years of owning my car (in 1 so far) I can't see maintenance costing that much money, especially with fords reliability being some of the highest in the business. Since I don't know how the next 3 years are going to pan out, I can't judge on that. Regardless paying for maintenance on your vehicle in the cost of the vehicle seems dumb, its like buying an extra insurance policy.

I'm not going to argue the convertible points because I don't like any convertible. 135 can have the win if you are looking for a convertible, not having the choice for a coupe is dumb though.

I've been in plenty of tight spots in a lot of vehicles, the only thing I needed to fold in was on a truck, because it was a HD truck and the mirrors are huge. Maybe you can describe a real world scenario where this would come in handy I might understand.

To update where we stand, with our two car comparison. The mustang has 90% of the features the 1 series has, though some of them you have to push a button instead of it being automatic. The ford is cheaper, faster, and has a simple drivetrain with cheap parts. So if you want that extra 10%, automatic toys, a slower car, a sparse interior, and want to spend more money for a 'premium' brand, get the BMW.

"Glad all BMWs have LED tail lights. Every new Cadillac has had them since the DTS in 2000. Lincoln has had them on all models (except the TC which doesnt count) for years as well. I'm shocked LEDs arent a $500 option on BMWs. "

Actually you're wrong. The Cadillac Escalade was all-new for 2002 but did not receive them until its subsequent redesign in 2007. Also, the all-new 2003 CTS did not have them either, not getting them until its redesign in 2008.

BMW started fitting LED taillights with the 2001 5-Series, and every subsequent redesign has had them with the 'light pipe' design. They started offering xenon headlights in 1991, when did Cadillac? They started offering adaptive bi-xenon headlights and adaptive brake lights in 2002, when did Cadillac?

"To update where we stand, with our two car comparison. The mustang has 90% of the features the 1 series has, though some of them you have to push a button instead of it being automatic. The ford is cheaper, faster, and has a simple drivetrain with cheap parts. So if you want that extra 10%, automatic toys, a slower car, a sparse interior, and want to spend more money for a 'premium' brand, get the BMW. "

I'd say the Mustang offers 75% of the features, automatic or not. The Mustang is a few tenths of a second quicker to 60 (4.7 vert/4.6 coupe according to C/D) with a better lead in the 1/4 while returning much poorer fuel economy (17/20/26 vs. 20/23/28). The BMW has better dealers, service and warranty coverage. The BMW has better resale retention according to BMWFS vs. Ford Credit projected residuals. The 135i has 3 more cubes of space while weighing 300 lbs less. In my personal experience and prior research, the Mustang costs more to insure (insurance.com) and has a much higher death and injury rate (HLDI). The BMW has much more safety gear - battery safety terminal, collision notification, auto door unlock/hazards/interior lights, active rollover protection system, dual knee airbags, panic brake lights, double-locking system, active headrests). The BMW rides better, has way better steering feel (hydraulic vs. EPS FTW), better braking feel, is quieter, and has a better driving position - overall being an easier car to live with daily. The interior quality IS better and uses more premium materials - better leather that has a special treatment so it never gets hot - even in black with the top down in direct sun - and it covers more surfaces, plus real wood and metal trims you can choose from.

You know I'd still own a Mustang again, that's why I cross-shopped one last year... and I still think it offers a lot for the money, my only major complaint being the stupid axle out back. And I'm not a big fan of the styling, though it's way better than the Camaro in my eyes. But I see so many preconceived notions about BMW on here that quite frankly are highly outdated, plain inaccurate, or reflect "reverse snobbery". I think the 135i is worth the premium price it commands, but reasonably it's not for everyone.