#SEMA -- You won't find a "hybrid delete" option on these Honda CR-Zs, but you will find a turbo kit. Or, rather you would, had the Honda Performance Development (HPD) engineers been ready to open the hood today at the SEMA show. The turbocharger (it's evidently located right near the firewall) and its associated plumbing are not yet ready for our eyes, we were told.
So what's the deal with these cars? Well, the HPD engineers like to go racing, and they built up the white car (the CR-Z Racer) to race at the 25 Hours of Thunderhill in Willows, California, next month. A Borg Warner dual-ball-bearing turbocharger and an all-new nickel-cobalt-magnesium battery pack help the racecar to 200 hp and 175 pound-feet of torque -- up from 122 hp and 128 lb-ft on the stock CR-Z. The red car (the Hybrid R Concept) has the same setup but is done up more like a traditional SEMA showcar, with a hood scoop and graphite-finish wheels.
So where's all this going?
That is of course a question Honda is not ready to answer in definite terms, but we're told a drivable version of the CR-Z Hybrid R will surface sometime in February or March, and Honda plans to let members of the media drive it. Certainly, we would hope this is leading up to a CR-Z Si or Type R.
HPD engineers tell us the NCM battery pack was selected for its greater energy content; it provides 25 hp -- about double what the CR-Z's stock NiMH batteries contribute. Evidently, this type of battery is also better able to support quick charge and discharge -- as you would get on a racetrack where there are rapid and frequent transitions between full throttle and full braking. Honda also swapped in a different inverter. Additional cooling was a must with the shift in focus from fuel economy to track use, so the battery pack and inverter are liquid-cooled, as opposed to air-cooled as on the stock CR-Z.
Another key change is the "on-demand" nature of the electric assist. Instead of it kicking in automatically as in normal production hybrids, the driver controls it by pressing a button on the steering wheel. It's hard to conceive of a driver ever being given that much control in a production version, but hey, it's like a sport button, no? The stock six-speed manual transmission carries over to these cars, but gets a performance clutch.
A limited-slip differential from HPD's Civic parts bin has been fitted up front, as has every bit of suspension and brake hardware. We couldn't wrest a 0-60 claim/estimate/boast, but we're told the Racer (white car) will pull 1.4g (it has 225/45R17 BF Goodrich g-force RI Track & Competition tires) and that it's 10 seconds quicker around the Willow Springs racetrack in Rosamond, California... which is pretty believable when you consider that Big Willow is a fast track that favors big-horsepower cars and punishes the puny.
moreau says:
01:18 PM, 11/ 2/10
Honestly, if Honda actually goes through with a 200 hp, 175 ft-lb CR-Z it will suddenly reappear on car enthusiast radar. A 200 hp, 2600 lb 2 seater for $25K out the door sounds pretty nice, really. If it can still get good gas mileage people could rationalize it. It would still be a second car, but you could commute in it to save money AND have more fun, not a bad combination (a commuter sports car is what they should bill it as). While still not a knockout, take-over-the-world sort of car, it would be much more desirable than its current inferior-to-a-Fit version.
And PLEASE set the precedent along with Porsche for fun hybrids. There is no reason a hybrid cannot be as fun, if not more (manual control over the motors sounds really fun) than a normal car, but with the Prius as the only role model everyone is trying to make kitchen appliances instead of cars. Oh no, a hundred pounds of battery and motor, better starting torque, and better fuel mileage in town. Kill me now before hybrids take over the world.
autoboy16 says:
01:41 PM, 11/ 2/10
If the CR-Z was available with just a gas engine, I would actually take a look at one.
lt1boy says:
02:17 PM, 11/ 2/10
200 hp is pretty fast... for 1990.
The Eclipse GS-T came out with a turbo-charged 200 hp engine almost 20 years ago. Get with the times, Honda.
sportyaccordy says:
04:08 PM, 11/ 2/10
Dump the batteries + IMA
Throw the K20Z1 in, maybe destroked
Give it the Civic's IRS
You have a 2300-2400# modern CRX SI-R
inlinesix says:
05:52 PM, 11/ 2/10
"200 hp is pretty fast... for 1990."
This is an amazing comment. Its a hybrid.
zeniff says:
05:59 PM, 11/ 2/10
I agree that they should have made the CR-Z gas only. The added weight, minimal HP gains, and the added cost of IMA make any mods on this car a very questionable choice. If it was gas only, 200hp would be easily attainable, and you wouldn't have to pay a couple thousand more for IMA stuff that bloats the curb weight. But since Honda has decided to pander to the masses and has forgotten that their best fans liked them because they did things different from everyone else......
erik25 says:
06:03 PM, 11/ 2/10
Instead of that old ima system with dito batteries,give it a 1.6 turbo motor with 240 hp,drops the weight to,instead of that old civic Si motor.....
This would give a good competion to the upcoming Ford Fiesta RS and Hyundai Veloster and Toyota/subaru sportscar.
Honda could be in the game agian!
hybris says:
08:55 PM, 11/ 2/10
Looks great at least now I wonder if I can fit somehow the new 4v 5.0L V8 from the Mustang in this thing.
tmanz says:
10:43 PM, 11/ 2/10
I read elsewhere that they weren't going to produce the turbo ones, they were just for show.
But they are going to offer an overpriced Mugen appearance kit for them. That should make up for lack luster mpg and poor performance.
What world is Honda living in anymore?
It is like they had a meeting and decided it would be much easier if they took a break from building cars people want.
lt1boy says:
11:16 PM, 11/ 2/10
"This is an amazing comment. Its a hybrid."
This is also a hybrid.
http://www.insideline.com/porsche/porsche-918-spyder-hybrid-900-potential-buyers-found-100-more-needed.html
And it makes more than 200 hp.
Also, check out these Ford Fiestas.
http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/sema/2010/1011_ford_fiestas/index.html
Ford took a nice little commuter car and turned it into a 350 hp beast. Why can't Honda do the same? Like I said earlier, 200 hp is pretty fast... for 1990.
supra4 says:
03:57 AM, 11/ 3/10
I like the revised front bumper of the red one. It looks Audi-esque, probably why I like it.
captobvious says:
04:36 AM, 11/ 3/10
CRZ+ Si motor= winnnnnn
I love the look of the CRZ... but not the hybrid part.
carlos20 says:
05:32 AM, 11/ 3/10
CR-Z problems are not Horsepower, or Handling or design. His biggest problem is that CR-Z
is a Honda.
Until Hyundai and Kia reach his sales goals , Toyota and Honda will never built a car that satisfy the press and the media.
Call me stupid , but the CR-Z is a terrific car. Problem is , this is Hyundai era.
eldaino2 says:
05:38 AM, 11/ 3/10
lt1boy: dude don't be so lame. And misinformed. Most fwd sport compacts are in the 200-300 hp
Range so don't act like honda is behind the times. Not to mention most those cars weigh near or over
3000 lbs. And that fiesta is not an everymans car, u won't be able to buy it at a dealerand if you
Could, at what price? Ford wants to charge 30k for a 168 hp fiesta, granted it comes with a slew of upgrades
But that is steep nonetheless. Maybe they are stuck in the 90's?
Be realistic man. You want 350 bhp u need to mod or pay for it. What do u expect from honda man?
Posts like yours put the dic in ridiculous
eldaino2 says:
05:50 AM, 11/ 3/10
Lol and that porsche link? Really? Yeah its epic and fast and you could buy 15 cr-z's and still have change for lunch
gordancin says:
05:55 AM, 11/ 3/10
I never thought I would say it but I actually LIKE the way the red turbo concept looks. I always thought the CR-Z was awkward quite clumsy looking (compared to the original 2nd generation CRX) but this new front end looks really good.
Too bad there's no profile shots. I've got the feeling lowering it, (and making the right colour choice# will help to reduce the appearance of all that front end overhang.
Now... imagine if they gave this CR-Z a 6.5 #or even 6 seconds) to 60 performance...
eldaino2 says:
05:57 AM, 11/ 3/10
Lol and that porsche link? Really? Yeah its epic and fast and you could buy 15 cr-z's and still have change for lunch
inlinesix says:
09:15 AM, 11/ 3/10
"Like I said earlier, 200 hp is pretty fast... for 1990."
Where do you people come from? Lets compare a Porsche and a hybrid Honda? Honestly I'd rather have a lightweight 200hp non-hybrid car that gets decent mileage. Lets just ignore the S2000 completely because it had ONLY 240hp.
Go ahead and tell GM that they need to get with the times too, MT recorded the Volt's wheel horsepower in gas/electric mode at less than 140.
This is 2010, manufacturers have fuel-economy mandates and drivers are in a huge recession. Get with the times Lt1boy.
plaguedone says:
02:17 PM, 11/ 3/10
"Like I said earlier, 200 hp is pretty fast... for 1990."
200hp is still good there are alot of out there that have 267 and im talking about cars excluding overpriced luxury sedans and sports cars. And most of those cars need it to lug around alot of weight, for the size 200hp will get you a lot of speed. I swear alot of car snobbs out there, and thats why the us market gets screwed.
xorbe says:
04:39 PM, 11/ 3/10
The red one with a small turbo engine and no battery-pack/ima would probably sell like hotcakes!
supra4 says:
07:43 PM, 11/ 3/10
I am amazed by those who think 200 horse power is acceptable in a "Sports car." With the Exige being the only exception, (not including track cars) I would never buy a sports car with under 300hp. Honestly would you?
inlinesix says:
08:19 PM, 11/ 3/10
Supra4:
200hp is acceptable in a car like the CR-Z--and the S2000 is a blast with 240hp. The Miata is another one. I'd drive a lot of small cars with 200hp or less. Ive had a G35 coupe and a turbo Lexus too though...its all about the car.
mmmmtocino says:
09:03 PM, 11/ 3/10
cant we car enthusiasts just all get along for once and love the car for what it is.... a car.
mmmmtocino says:
09:04 PM, 11/ 3/10
cant we car enthusiasts just all get along for once and love the car for what it is.... a car.
cdyer says:
09:26 AM, 11/ 4/10
Pretty neat. But why not just stick the Civic Si motor sans hybriddy bits, and be much lighter? Oh, then it wouldn't be a hybrid, I get it.
If this concept would let the driver toggle between the efficiency of my current '06 Civic Hybrid, say click "sport", then get an instant track toy, I'd be into that. But it would have to be way more eco friendly in gas-saving mode, and way fun to drive in sport mode. Like way. Way x3.
lt1boy says:
11:06 AM, 11/ 4/10
When mainstream family sedans these days are making 250-300 hp, a "sports car" with only 200 hp is inexcusable. Seriously, my mom's V6 Camry would blow this CRZ away at the lights. Go ahead and talk all the smack you want about how the CRZ would be "faster at the track". The fact is, you'll only hit the tracks maybe once a month (if you have a life elsewhere), but you'll drive on public roads everyday. And useable, everyday performance is what matters.
A MazdaSpeed 3 is a turbo FWD car with 260 hp.
Cobalt SS had 260 hp.
Ford Focus RS has 305 hp.
Heck, even the new Hyundai Sonata with its BASE ENGINE makes 200 hp, and in turbo trim it makes 274 hp.
iutodd32 says:
11:13 PM, 11/ 5/10
It1boy - you talk about usable, everyday performance, and then mention three of the most overpowered frontwheel drive cars on the market. And the electronic nannies don't even let you use all that power because if you did you'd never get anywhere, the tires would just spin and torque steer would jerk the wheel from your hands. Usable everyday performance is a concept that not many people understand it seems. People need to be able to accelerate up an entrance ramp onto an interstate. OK, so worst case is the cloverleaf exchange - cars need to go from 25 to 60 as quickly as they ever need to. What car sold today is incapable of doing that? I drive a Honda Fit and never have any problems getting up to speed safely in pretty much any situation I find myself in. The Fit has...what? 117 hp?
Good article though - I think Honda is showing where they want to compete in the market of "sports cars" with this. I think the next Civic Si will have a 5.5-6.0 second 0-60 time and whatever the hot version of the CRZ is will have a 6.0-6.5 second 0-60 time. Honda isn't trying to compete with the Sti, Speed3, SS, RS...etc. We know they can build a great sports car (S2000) but, for whatever lamentable reason, they are not building that car. Just get over it already. This is where they are going and you're either on-board or not - maybe wait until you drive it before dismissing it.
lzks says:
07:24 AM, 11/ 7/10
All these comments are uselss. If you're an enthusiast and bought yourself a FWD, you failed. Nuff said.