Updated Volkswagen Phaeton May Debut in Beijing; Still No Decision on U.S. Sales

I actually prefer the look of the Phaeton over an A8, Lexus LS, BMW 7 series and Mercedes if I'm in the market of a luxury full sized sedan. But then that's just my own personal opinion. I like the conservative design of the Phaeton. But after seeing the Equus in person, I just think the Equus is a better choice.

I likes it, too bad it depreciates like a Quattroporte! to start off at 120 minimum and end up selling for 36, with only 35-40K miles on it.....simply unbelievable.....i'm wondering if its only meant to last for 40-50 thousand miles. At any rate; id say the best way to get bang for your buck on a car like this is wait to get it 2nd hand!

VW seems intent on competing against themselves. Did they learn nothing from GM? Audi is your affordable luxury car arm, why compete against the A8 with the Pheaton?

If they can make this priced in the lower-mid 50s-range, this would be ideal competition for the new Hyundai Equus, as well as other large Luxury Sedans

@cruiserhead1

umm actually vw owns audi so they cant really compete with themselves...

The only thing I've always hated about this car, they kept, the c-pillar.

The Phaeton is one of my favorite cars of all (modern-era) time. Don't ask why/how, since I'm not a VW, luxo-boat, or conservative guy. It may be the gimmicky over-engineering of the thing (especially after watching the Top Gear episode about it). When the rare moment of seeing one on the road comes along, I can't help but stare. I have a sweet spot for great engineering, and the Phaeton has always filled it quite nicely.

cruiserhead1 - you are obviously more concerned about badge than the substance beneath the hood & in the cabin. Sadly, that's true of most luxury car buyers, else no one would say that a brand new Bentley at $85k is not somehow a helluva bargain compared to any Equus or Genesis.

Also, your contention that : "VW's pretensions to be a premium luxury brand is wasting their true strengths in making great cars in the meat of the market for the masses" - seems to show that you are not aware of the massive cost issues facing German automakers. They have to compete on premium positioning because they simply cannot compete on price.

rlyon - this is only a refresh, not an all new platform/model, hence the same structure. What we can agree on is that Gen2 will have to be much more than a Golf-style evolution, as proven by Jaguar's previous XJ debacle.

typycal vw boring design.my opinion!!some people like it others dont.

umm, I know VW owns Audi. That's why it's stupid for VW to always want to create competing models!
Of course they can compete with themselves. They do, and that's why it's stupid.
VAG needs to clearly define their markets.

VW can't compete on price? I guess that's why they make the Polo, Golf, Jetta, Tiguan, GTI & Passat????
There are plenty of opportunities for profit in areas that are NOT touched by Audi. It's stupid marketing to constantly compete with Audi.

The real loser are VW fans. They loose out on all the potentially great cars if VW had it's head in the game instead of an inferiority complex.

Volkswagen should wait and see what happens with the Equus and really decide to bring it back based on that success, or they could bring it back to compete with the Hyundai Genisis.

I love the Phaeton, it is the ultimate assassin looks of a luxury car. It just basically lack badge appeal, shoddy dealerships and crap marketing, and for people who presume its related to the A8 it isn't, It shares the same platform with the Bentley Contenetal and Flying Spur codename VW611 which is steal rather than aluminium hence its a heavy car. The only thing which relates to the A8 is the engine and transmission. I'm not suprised about the so-called "what the point" arguments. I can think of unique reason of loving the Phaeton over the top competitors like the A8, it's a Bentley Q-Car meaning.......it's a bentley but for half the price plus with a diesel option and without the attention, its a stealth wealth of a car.

I'm not suprised VW USA are not bringing the Phaeton to the US just yet eventually they'll bring it and it will be a success but it will take generations rather than years for the phaeton to be a success look at lexus and even audi they had to start from somewhere and yes it took generations. What people have to bear in mind is the Germans are long term thinkers in other words they take a extreme long term view with industry, yes sure they may not get their day-to-day strategies right but one way or the other they achieve it. That's the reason why the germans are top of their game setting successful mass records of production year-on year unlike the big three americans (Ford, GM and Chrysler) who are short term thinkers where they are already flush down the toilet thanks to their imcompetant CEOs. OK I admit I'll let ford out of this one since they are the best of the bad bunch.

So before you people stick your two-fingers at the phaeton don't forget after WW2, the reprensentitives from U.S & Britain took a look at a car that in a VW Plant that was offered for free but was turned down but it eventually became the best selling car in the world and that was the Beetle.

Hoo boy, VW keeps wanting to have its high end car despite the fact the Audi division already covers that base.

Most VW dealerships appear pathetically mismatched to the concept or support of a luxury high end VW. What will VW will do about that?

Perhaps it makes more sense for VW to gets its R products over here. Past sales results for AWD performance VW's have been good.

KurtMaxx has the right idea - enough of the Phateon it is a useless car - VW focus on your core by upgrading all of them to AWD at an affordable price and the mass's will come - I mean seriously how many people are going to by an overpriced wannabe, just look at the forgettable Touareg.

Everything I've read about the car shows it's an excellent machine. The only problem is people don't associate VW with high end products.

I've never understood the image crowd who will pay big money to drive a *insert the name of any overpriced image brand here*. If it's a great car why do you care whether it says VW or Audi or Porsche on the fender? I don't.

It's looks like VW is trying out the Chinese market to see if they are more open minded.

I have an 04 Phaeton that I picked up CPO about 3 years ago for a song. It is hands down the best highway car I have ever owned, and I have owned a bunch, including a w124 Benz. It's quiet, fast, comfortable and tracks like a train - at 100 mph it's just coming into it's stride. Pretty much everything about the car is more than it needs to be, from the climate control to the fuse box. A good example is the temp gauge, early on I noticed that once the car is warmed up, the needle settles at 200 degrees and never moves, ever, no matter what the conditions are. As it turns out, it is (supposedly) electronically damped, why? I have no idea, but it is indicative of the attention to detail. The car is not the problem, VW management is the problem - the just don't "get it" at every level. The dealership experience is at best spotty and at it's worst, it's unforgiveable. The dealerships are frequently shabby and run down and most lack any semblance of customer service attitude. It's not just the dealers who don't understand what it takes to compete at the Phaeton's level, VW of America is clueless as well. Case in point, the one unexpected issue I did have with the car was when two of the lower protective door covers came loose because of corrosion. In a nutshell, the metal retaining strip that attached the trim to the lower outside door rusted away. This is a manufacturing error that is common to all 04's in snow country, and was corrected in 05, forward. I naively assumed this would be covered under the corrosion warranty or the CPO warranty. Long story short, the dealer told me it wouldn't be covered as the item is considered "trim", despite the fact the it is integral to the door. At this point I am getting pretty cheesed (the repair bill to fix all four doors was around 1 grand). So I look up VW's COO in the US and e-mail him (politely) an explanation of the issue and why I didn't think things should fall off a 60k luxury car. To his credit, someone from his office called back and offered to pay for the parts but not the labor and would not budge on the issue. Do you think this would ever occur at a Lexus dealer?

Nice duct tape! I had no clue it was the Phaeton!!! (just kidding, of course)

"Why does VW keep trying to compete w/ Audi?"

Amen! VW should be the German alternative to the likes of Ford/Chevy/Dodge and Honda/Toyota/Nissan. They keep moving their cars upscale crowding Audi and then complain about a lack of sales volume that would make them truly profitable in the U.S.. It's not a matter of marketing ploys, it's a matter of having competitive models that hit the price points that sell!!!

I think most people don't realise that this is actually a Bentley! I don't know how many times I have had to tell people that this is NOT AN A8. Always wanted a Bentley, but only have 40k? Buy this.

If they could load this car up with the technology - and engineering - that a 7 series / A8 / E-class has - and offer it at $40k I'd be ALL OVER IT.

Make it hit the price points that Hyundai is at! German engineering *should* be able to win THAT battle. But no amount of marketing is going to get me to spend my $60k on a VW instead of the Audi/MB/BMW/Lexus/Acura/Infiniti.

Am I in the minority here??