IL Track Tested: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro V6 vs. 2011 Ford Mustang V6

Can I say... Mustang for the win! the numbers are better then the genesis coupe.

Notabigdeal beat me to it.

These cars make you not give a crap about the Genesis Coupe. Wasn't that a big deal briefly?

They better be faster than the Genesis. The Genesis 2.0T R-Spec is around $23K and the 306 HP Genesis 3.8 is $25K.

Very impressive numbers from the V6 Mustang and Camaro, but the V8's are still within a few grand that I would forever have the "could've had a V8" feeling.
Mustang- the 5.0 is the no-brainer choice.
Camaro- the SS is the no-brainer choice.

I can see where the V6's hit a different market though and now there's no shame in owning one.

Anyone else find it odd their numbers and impressions of the V6 Camaro are significantly worse than they were when it was first track tested 1 year ago? It performed much, much closer to the 2011 Mustang's numbers. Was this one not broken in, or broken?

Can we please have the comparison numbers be placed in a table next to each other instead of one on top of the other? It would make visual inspection about 100000000000000000 times easier.

Despite 1+ years it took Ford to come up with the properly updated Mustang v6, the difference in performance between these two cars isn't really as dramatic as it might seem from Ed's comments.

I've driven the SS and one thing I took from it is if you truly enjoy fun cars aka cars that are opposite of 99% of what Japan produces you should enjoy the Camaro despite its weight and I'm not surprised that so many people are buying them.

The Genesis and Mustang have the better styling. That braking is outstanding in the 'stang.

These comments about the numbers pointing to the 'Maro and 'Stang being better than the Genesis Coupe are rather ignorant.

I am a huge fan of both the Camaro and Mustang but there are simply waaaay too many factors beside straight line performance that determines if a car is worth someone's hard earned cash.

alex38: I am a big fan of the Genesis but the 3.8 Track model tested by IL in one comparison put it at 68.2 mph through the cones, the same as this Camaro and slower than the new Mustang.

I drove the 2010 Mustang GT a few months ago and I didn't like its balance or visibility. These cars do more than straight line performance now though.

"No sign of [brake] fade"......in a Ford product??? IMPRESSED.

Dangerous Mustang break you neck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjiK3MMU8iU
(Note: Video 0:21)

Dangerous Mustang break you neck.

youtube.com/watch?v=wjiK3MMU8iU

(Note: Video 0:21)

By the way, with my earlier comments on the Camaro's reduced performance from a year ago, I don't mean to imply it would have changed the outcome. The 2011 Camaro is at the very least on paper a better car. I hope GM responds with the 2011 Camaro.

"Nothing that will strike fear into anything with a V8, but certainly good enough to hold their own against a 370Z or Hyundai Genesis Coupe. "

I beg to differ... these cars are muscle cars, not sports cars. They hold their own against a genesis coupe for sure, but the v6's are no match for the 370z. Given, you pay more and lose a back seat, so it isn't apples to apples, but still. The Z regularly does the quarter mile @ 13.5ish@107...nevermind it's handling prowess or 300+lb weight advantage. Heck, it outgunned last years GT in the straight, and that car was under 5.0 to 60.

I will say though, that the new Mustang impresses the hell out of me in both v6 and 5.0 guise, and it's the first Stang since the 67 that I wouldn't kick out of the garage.

As far as most owners would be concerned these cars are close enough to the Z and both probably ride better and offer more quiet on the highway. There is a reason why both outsell the Z by a huge margin. The Z is a niche vehicle that only appeals to hardcore enthusiasts who want a cheaper alternative to a Porsche. Its a nice concept but the appeal is very limited.

There really is no comparison between the Z and a V6 'Stang or 'Maro. The Z easily can get into the mid $30K range for a base model with the sport pkg. (to get the limited slip diff). That puts it in the same price point as a Mustang GT or Cam SS. Whole diffent game then. Still rather have the GT 5.0 with its V8 rumble than the wird sounding Nissan V6.

Good point, 1487.

Great looking wheels on the Mustang IMO - especially for the V6 model.

Drive both cars on bumpier roads and the straight rear axle mustang will suffer.

This comment is from edmunds.com review of the 2010 370z

In performance testing, a 370Z coupe with the Sport package went from zero to 60 mph in an impressively quick 5.1 seconds

Now I like both the Camaro V6 and the Mustang V6 and even though I like the looks of the Camaro better in this comparison it lost to the Mustang V6 so can someone tell me how the V6 version of any of these cars can hold their own against a 370z.

I get that Edmunds may not be partial to Nissan but for people to make comments about the Camaro and Mustang V6's holding their own against the 370z is laughable. Give credit where credit is do.

BTW I'd buy the 2011 Ford Mustang GT if I was buying a muscle car

ronyaricarta,

The 370Z is priced as high or higher than a Mustang GT, which pulls to 60 in 4.8 seconds (Edmunds math, 4.5 in other math).

The 370Z is a pretty neat car, but these vehicles have a hell of a lot to offer too.

Now if Ford would drop that 3.7L in the Fusion Sport, I'd have my next car.

1) price is very close to the v8 and the performance of these cars is hopeless( cough cough camaro cough)
2) None of these hold a chance against the 370Z
3) these cars are for people who could care less about a driving pleasure.
4) The mustang is far more improved than the 4.0 junk it had before , but no real enthusiast would wanna buy a V6.
5) Keep the cars at 22-24k range and people will bite.
6) By looking at the tests of the 5.0 , I am impressed and I was in the market for 2008-09 GT500 but I am just going to wait.

Wow. Good work for both cars. I really want to drive the new Mustang, both V6 and V8 versions.

+1 1487. I'm hoping IL gets a 2011 Mustang (either engine) so we can read how they view it versus the Camaro, Challenger and that lousy 370Z.

1. Few people care about the Z regardless of how great it performs. The car is pricey, gets mediocre mileage and is still lacking refinement
2. People buy sports cars and coupes for numerous reasons. The fact that these cars cant beat the Z on a track or on paper doesn't mean they arent desirable. Check the sales figures.
3. Anyone who thinks a decently equipped 305hp coupe should cost about $24k is on crack. The 135 starts at $30k with a 230hp engine standard. The 300hp 135i starts at over $36k. The Genesis coupe V6 starts at $25k but the version tested by all the magazines was over $30k.

I have to agree with most comments on... this is myopic and almost ludicrous.

"Nothing that will strike fear into anything with a V8, but certainly good enough to hold their own against a 370Z or Hyundai Genesis Coupe. "

I test drove the current offerings and yes, even the current Camaro and Mustang GT compete...in a straight line. However when it comes to handling performance and driving tracks or curvy beautiful roads, the 370z and Genesis Coupe V6 both beat them easily. Only the Corvette competes in overall power and handling surprisingly. The Camaro and Mustang are no where near the all around performance car as the imports are because the current suspension system and performance of American Muscle is leagues behind its competitors. C'mon now, change to independent rear suspension and build in handling design from the beginning guys.

The author also doesn't mention the closest car to the 370z is the BMW 135i.

I just bought a Nissan Z series after test driving the 2009 370z, 2009 Mustang GT, 2009 Camaro, 2009 Genesis Coupe V6. All have a V6, they all nearly sound and act like a V8, until you drive a real V8.

I should mention, the Camaro handles nicely! The Mustang felt like I it was a carriage around the turns. Must respect to Ed Hellwig, I'm always reading his stuff and he writes about car love. :)

I havent driven the new mustang or the Camaro v6, I did however test drive the camaro SS and an 08 mustang GT a while back. I would hold my judgment till I drive the 5.0 and how Ford has improved the handling. The old GT felt like the steering wasnt connected to the front wheels and you aim for the corner and hope it will take. The camaro is better but not far. It is very heavy and gives no driver confidence for precise driving.

To me these cars are good in straight line , decent to look at but thats about it. They are in the segment where the buyers would compare them to a Base 370Z, Genesis 3.8 etc so they have to be competitive. the looks arent going to cut it

TO 1487's comment, are you seriously comparing the 135i to a V6 camaro. Please test drive a 135i and then comment, Bmw charges w premium because the car communicates to the drive and more engaging.

I found the 370Z a little harsh and stiff (350z sounded better). Its faster for sure. Lacks the top end but show it some corners and it will deliver. To me driving characteristics are important when I am paying 30k.

Mustang, FTW!
Quite easily!
Just as expected!
Amazing braking distance numbers......wow
Lots of grip as well..

Seems the 11' camaro will have some changes, wonder if they will change this outcome?

don_83:
"2) None of these hold a chance against the 370Z
4) [text removed], but no real enthusiast would wanna buy a V6. "

These two statements seem contradictory.

From my experience and brief test drives, I'd exclude the 370Z (really a different animal) and I'd rank:

1. Genny Coupe
2. 'Stang (very close to the Genny, however, esp since I haven't driven the new V6)
3. Camaro (a distant 3rd - too BIG feeling, no real road feel, horrible driving position for 6' or taller)

jmess: maybe if the Camaro had a properly sorted IRS, but per IL's previous test of the v6 Camaro: "...if the pavement is cracked anywhere near an apex, this Camaro goes jittery even with its independent rear suspension..."

Stovt001: what about the Camaro makes it a better car on paper? The IRS? On paper I would say that the cars are pretty much equal.

Apologies, what I really meant was , no real enthusiast wants a v6 "camaro", Oh did I say that out loud. The V6 in the 370 has plenty of grunt.

@bankerdanny: You caught a typo. I meant to say the 2011 Mustang is better on paper. If you compare the Mustang's numbers here with the V6 Camaro's numbers from a year ago, the gap is smaller but the Mustang still wins. I hope GM feels the pressure to compete and upgrades the Camaro for 2011 to leapfrog the Mustang again. The consumers can only benefit from this.

Those are some serious times. Who would have thought a stock V-6 Mustang can run in the 13s.

"don_83 says:Apologies, what I really meant was , no real enthusiast wants a v6 "camaro", Oh did I say that out loud. The V6 in the 370 has plenty of grunt. "

By grunt you mean a little less torque and a little more hp than the V6 Mustang. I really not much of a fan of the VQ after spending a week in a competent but highly boring G 35. It made me long for my EVO back home.

I'm a bit surprised here in the negative-ism towards the v6 Mustang and to some degree the Camaro as well. It has same skidpad as an STI, stops as good or better than a 370 or EVO, and is faster than the Gen coupe 6 cyl. What do people expect really on a car that starts at < 25K and still has a back seat.

Also, why is the muscle car definition limited to cars with V8. Should we call the M3 and S5 a "muscle car" and the Mustang V6 a "GT" or even better "sports car".

What's nice about the Mustang engine is that its peak torque doesn't come at a lofty 5,200 rpm; it's more useable at 4,250 rpm.

What's embarrassing about either of these V6's is that they both could take my not-all-that-old Mustang GT. *frown*

greenpony, don't feel bad. My first new car was a 1986 Mustang GT with a "tremendous" 200hp and fuel injection. This V-6 mustang would smoke my old car on any track on the planet, while doubling the gas mileage!

Who cares about performance?!?!? crapmaro has a fugly ass interior!! crapstang looks old already!! They both are heavy ass cows!! They both drive like crap!! Build something new already stop doing this "retro" crap!!

"The Camaro and Mustang are no where near the all around performance car as the imports are because the current suspension system and performance of American Muscle is leagues behind its competitors. C'mon now, change to independent rear suspension and build in handling design from the beginning guys."

Camaro has IRS. You obviously don't know much about suspension design.

"To me these cars are good in straight line , decent to look at but thats about it."

BAsed on this and other comments you made I doubt you are objective. You sound like a Euro car fanboy and its obvious you havent read squat about the camaro or Mustang. The Camaro is on a modifed version of the G8's chassis and in Austraila Holden's RWD cars are directly compared to BMW models. In fact, the G8 was often compared to the the 5 series in terms of poise. I think you forgot its 2010 and not 1970- big difference in muscle cars over 40 years.

"Who cares about performance?!?!? crapmaro has a fugly ass interior!! crapstang looks old already!! They both are heavy ass cows!! They both drive like crap!! Build something new already stop doing this "retro" crap!!"

The Mustang is about the same weight as the 3 series coupe- maybe slightly lighter. It's lighter than the E350 and similar in weight to the A5. Are those cars too heavy as well?

"TO 1487's comment, are you seriously comparing the 135i to a V6 camaro. Please test drive a 135i and then comment, Bmw charges w premium because the car communicates to the drive and more engaging. "

No, BMW charges more because it can do so based on brand image and it has to because its vehicles are imported from Germany (except SUVs) and BMW is not known as a low cost producer. It has to charge a lot to stand a chance at profitability. Making an engaging car doesn't have to cost more than making one that is dull to drive. You've been watching too many BMW ads.

"...stop doing this "retro" crap!!"

+1

2011 Mustang V6: 3453

2010 328i Coupe: 3351
2010 328i Sedan: 3362
2010 335i Coupe: 3571

2010 Camaro V6: 3750

I thought the '10 Mustang GT drove "heavy" and feels about 300 lbs heavier than it is. I got out of the test drive with the Mustang and into a G35 Coupe and it was a huge difference.

Throwback, I had an '87 LX 5.0 5-speed myself. The 2011 V6 is certainly faster, but double the mileage, I don't think so. I routinely got 24-25 on the highway (2k RPM @ 70 will do that for you). I don't recall what the city mileage was, I was in my 20's then and enjoyed the available acceleration so it probably wasn't great, but still it was not half of what I might get in a 2011.

"I got out of the test drive with the Mustang and into a G35 Coupe and it was a huge difference. "

The G37 isnt even that light. Its heavier than the Mustang. Honestly, I dont expect any person who is a fan of European or Japanese cars to give the Mustang/Camaro credit for squat. You can predict which people are going to criticize the cars for weight, lack of sophistication, lack of handling, etc. People who keep harping on the weight of the camaro need to research the curb weights on other V8 powered coupes like the E550, S5 and 650. Even the E350 comes in at around 3700lbs.

"1487 :BAsed on this and other comments you made I doubt you are objective. You sound like a Euro car fanboy and its obvious you havent read squat about the camaro or Mustang. The Camaro is on a modifed version of the G8's chassis and in Austraila Holden's RWD cars are directly compared to BMW models. In fact, the G8 was often compared to the the 5 series in terms of poise. I think you forgot its 2010 and not 1970- big difference in muscle cars over 40 years. "

I am not a euro car fanboy and I do appreciate any car that drives properly regardless of the brand. Let me tell you, just because it is imported from Ausy land , it doesnt make it special. I owned a 2006 GTO and did enormous amounts of upgrades from Australia and Pedders to the suspension ,but I got tired of it after a couple of years and the other cars in the market were just better. Also have driven the G8 Gxp which is slightly better but not up to par.
What I dont get is that why they are not improving the suspension and road feel of these cars. GM certainly could do it. The V handles great and so does the corvette. Just need to shave some weight and add better steering.

With 30k I can get me a 3,232lbs Nissan 370Z.

Enough said.

don_83: "Apologies, what I really meant was , no real enthusiast wants a v6 "camaro", Oh did I say that out loud. The V6 in the 370 has plenty of grunt. "

I think I understand what you're saying. Regardless of numbers, a car like the Camaro begs for a V8.

the mustang continues to impress me. i'm never a fan of muscle car but this new mustang especially with the new 5.0 really has me diggin.. at first the camaro looked cool but new its starting to look weird to me...

"The V handles great and so does the corvette. Just need to shave some weight and add better steering."

The CTS with a V6 is heavier than the Camaro SS and the CTS-V is about 4200lbs. Not sure how you would expect GM to shave weight off zeta platform. When you design a new platform with world class rigidity and build a big coupe off that platform its going to weigh more than the Mustang. This is why the E coupe and S5 weigh more than the Mustang. The Mustang is based on much older underpinnings and its weight reflects that.

"With 30k I can get me a 3,232lbs Nissan 370Z."

You can also get a punishing freeway ride, more cabin noise, a need for premium fuel and less practicality. enough said.

Would be great to include all the entry level v6 sports like the genesis and perhaps even the v6 accord+ altima coupe (i know they are front drivers but the comparo would be interesting). The great entry level v6 suedo-sport battle!

1487, nice comeback to jazzor. LOL

Yay for competition! American cars can spar with imports at last! Bye bye decrepit days of 210 hp iron-block V6s! Helloo sexy Mustang!

This'll make the Genesis coupe designers have to update their powertrain *hopefully* and come out with a DI V6 hehehe. By the way does the Mustang use premium or regular fuel?

Meh. At the same time I would still take a Genesis coupe over the Mustang just because of the pony's "retro" interior. They needa update this shiz to the new age, man.

I will agree the retro thing is old, but retro sure does apply to performance, that's for sure. And I do have to agree with 1487. While these cars may be heavy compared to older performance cars, their weight is right on par with the rest of the sporty coupe and grand touring segment. Of course a pure sports car like a 370Z is going to be lighter, just like a compact car will be lighter than a midsize sedan. Different tools for different jobs. Almost everyone is guilty of weight creep, not just GM and Ford.

"People who keep harping on the weight of the camaro need to research the curb weights on other V8 powered coupes like the E550, S5 and 650. Even the E350 comes in at around 3700lbs."

Here are more numbers

2011 Mustang V6: 3453 lbs.
2010 IS250/350: 3400-3500
G35 6MT: 3512
Genesis Coupe: 3549
335i: 3571

*EDIT*
Camaro V6: 3750

"You can also get a punishing freeway ride, more cabin noise, a need for premium fuel and less practicality. enough said."

If that stuff mattered to everyone you'd have a point.

It's funny how much cars weigh these days. I know that having 96 airbags makes impacts less dangerous, and I love my nav system and 4-zone HVAC as much as the next guy. But my first car was an old and well-used 1986 CRX SI, and I am pretty sure that thing weighed less than a ton (and was the most fun car I ever had, especially considering it had less horsepower than some lawnmowers). My current car is a "sports" sedan that might weigh less than 4000 pounds if the fuel tank is empty and I let some air out of the tires. And it drives like a tank, too.

" inlinesix says:

03:04 PM, 04/ 7/10

"You can also get a punishing freeway ride, more cabin noise, a need for premium fuel and less practicality. enough said."

If that stuff mattered to everyone you'd have a point. "

Thank you Inlinesix!

I thought we were discussing which is the better performer for 30k of either American muscle cars, but thanks to 1487 I now know we should not care about a 30k car's performance but instead focus on freeway ride, cabin noise and practicality. Answer me something 1487, you're a die-hard Mustang fan right? Cause I can repeat it again, there's no reason to get a V6 Mustang for the same price you could get a much better built, better performer and more up-class Nissan 370Z... not to mention you won't find 370Z at Avis Rent A Car...

But no, instead I'ma buy me that V6 'Stang cause it has less in-cabin noise... Amusing.

jazzor, of course there is, and 1487 listed them.

I'ma going to buy me a 'Stang because I'm a divorced dad with a couple kids who needs a back seat but wants a quick, good handling car. I'ma going to buy me a 'Stang because I need a car that will comfortably take me and a significant other and our luggage on a long driving trip while still affording me some twisty road fun when I want it.

The Z is a terrific car, but it requires certain compromises that some people can't or won't make. Someday when you're an adult with a bad back and kids and don't have the luxury of owning a limited purpose sports car, maybe you'll see the appeal of cars like the Mustang and the Genesis Coupe.

bryan__t I had an original CRX too! Great car, cheap, light, fun, nice looking, and got better fuel economy than most modern hybrids. Cars are getting bigger and not only due to safety. Automakers say people demand it. I guess it might coincide with Americans exploding waistlines. My 95 tacoma 2wd feels like it is half the size of a new one.

"jazzor, of course there is, and 1487 listed them.

I'ma going to buy me a 'Stang because I'm a divorced dad with a couple kids who needs a back seat but wants a quick, good handling car. I'ma going to buy me a 'Stang because I need a car that will comfortably take me and a significant other and our luggage on a long driving trip while still affording me some twisty road fun when I want it."

Ah whatever... you're just an old man who lost his sporty spirit =) just kid, just kid hehe.

I see your point, maybe I'm just thinking everyday performance with a lack of comfort cause I haven't even reached 30's yet and one young car-enthusiast American male barely cares about a vehicle's comfort over it's attitude and performance nowadays, but I get your point.

To each his own, right?

Damn, the Mustang is as fast as my SLK!

For all the non-believers: a live-axle done right is no bad thing.

Seriously, i dont know why people get so upset about there still being a log sitting under the trunk of this awesome machine. I mean if they call this suspension setup better than that of a modern IRS, then i see no reason for a change, at least not yet.

You can actually feel whats happening at the wheels. Cmon, thats a win in my book. Good thing it is for IL too.

Woohoo! Go FORD!

"If that stuff mattered to everyone you'd have a point. "

my point is that the Z's formula doesn't appeal to many which is why the sell less than 2000 units a month. Last month chevy sold almost 9000 camaros. That's my point. As with many virtual race car drivers you don't even know what the market wants. The market is not looking for more 2 seater sports cars with harsh rides. One thing the Camaro was been universally praised for thus far is ride quality- even with 20" rims. Infiniti can't even get the ride quality right on a $60k luxury sedan with 20s.

"Answer me something 1487, you're a die-hard Mustang fan right? Cause I can repeat it again, there's no reason to get a V6 Mustang for the same price you could get a much better built, better performer and more up-class Nissan 370Z... not to mention you won't find 370Z at Avis Rent A Car..."

I cant rationalize with Japanese car fanboys. The fact that you said the Z is "better built" than the Mustang shows you are out of touch with reality. You are still living in the glory days of Japanese car dominance and need to join me in 2010. Did you read about the issues IL had with their LT 370z? Nissan's cars are no better built than anything sold by Ford or Hyundai or anyone else. No rental car agency would buy a Z because few people want to rent a pricey two seater that needs premium fuel. The Mustang offers more value and a small backseat and thus makes more sense as a rental. Don't hit me with the rental car excuse because in Germany Audis and MBs are used as taxis, rentals, police cars and everything else in between. Does that makes those bad cars?

1487: "my point is that the Z's formula doesn't appeal to many which is why the sell less than 2000 units a month. Last month chevy sold almost 9000 camaros."

1487 is right. I don't want to take away from the 370Z. I think it'd be an incredibly fun second car. That's not what I'm looking for. I'd much rather have a daily driver that performs nicely. For me, that's the V6 Mustang. I'm not a track guy. Not even close.

As much as I like the 370Z, I'd never buy it. The Mustang would be under serious consideration (I'd look at the Camaro, but I've a feeling Ford would get me on this one). Also, price is a factor.

So that stuff does matter. Not to everyone, but I suspect to a heck of a lot of people.

jazzor: "Answer me something 1487, you're a die-hard Mustang fan right?"

That's funny. You've clearly not read enough from 1487.

1487: "Nissan's cars are no better built than anything sold by Ford or Hyundai or anyone else."

You've giving Nissan too much credit. I've spent a lot time in the back of Nissan and Infiniti shops. Their stuff is more along the lines of VW. I'm amazed it hasn't bitten Nissan (or VW) in the ass yet. For now, people seem willing to overlook it.

Hyundai is another story. Spent some time in the back of Kia shops and I'm just confused there.

"That's my point. As with many virtual race car drivers you don't even know what the market wants."

Saying some people dont want a Camaro...is misunderstanding the value of it in a market standpoint?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

I don't expect the few IL contributing domestic fanboys to understand. If 8,900 people buy the Camaro and 3,000 buy the Nissan/Infiniti than obviously they appeal to different buyers. If you want the ride quality, get the Camaro.

Jazzor, I was assuming you were under 30. I get your perspective, in 1988 when I was 23 I bought a 1 year old '87 Mustang LX 5.0 5-speed. It had only 2 options, a cassette deck and air conditioning.

To say it rode like a truck is to insult the ride quality of many trucks. But it was a blast to drive, and like you I would have sneered at buyers who chose automatics and/or the lesser 4 and 6 cylinder versions (plus any Camaro/Firebird owner on general principals).

In those days the Mustang V8 buyer didn't have many other options, you had the Camaro/Firebird of course, but Dodge was all about Turbo 4's then, the Omni and Charger GLH's (which were actually pretty mean little cars) and Daytona Turbos. The 300zx was an expensive piece of techno crap and the Supra was more expensive and more of a GT. Maybe you would look at a Mitsubishi Starion Turbo.

Today's buyers have an empbarassment of riches when it comes to choices between $25-$30k. A variety of V6's, V8's and Turbo 4's that have power levels that were limited to Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo in the mid to late 80's. There is a car for every taste these days and personally I couldn't be happier.

Woah. I didn't know V6 Camaro weighs that much. 3700+lbs!?!?!? What is in that thing? No wonder it's slower than I expected. V6 mustang's much better from before, but with "realistic" mpg rating at 14/24? Might as well get V8... just as before. And what's with the difference? 19/31 to 14/24?? Wow, now I'm NEVER trusting EPA.

Banker: we are about the same age and you are so right about what was available back then...In 1986 I bought a 84 Capri RS Turbo with the port injected 2.3...My brother had a 5.0 so I wanted to be different....with a lot less lbs under the hood and the TRX pack (220 55 VR390) it really cornered for those days. It had the 4.08 rear and and I could stay with the 5.0 through second gear but then it was all over. The freaking GLHs were a holy terror with just a few tweaks so I just left them alone. :)

"I don't expect the few IL contributing domestic fanboys to understand. If 8,900 people buy the Camaro and 3,000 buy the Nissan/Infiniti than obviously they appeal to different buyers. If you want the ride quality, get the Camaro. "

This is a business. When you sit here and say the 370Z is clearly superior to the Mustang/Camaro that is only based on your view of what a coupe should be. The MARKET doesn't agree with you. Nissan may or may not be happy selling 1500 Zs a month but I suspect if they could sell more they would be happy to do so. They designed a car to thrill magazine writers and it has done that but its not selling. I see more M3s than 370z's in Philly. This 2011 Mustang is a marked improvement over the 2010 and it offers a combination of performance and efficiency and price that will propel it to far more success than the Z will ever see. That's just a fact. You deride ride quality but people who pay $35k+ for a car don't want to be beat up over the highway, especially when BMW and others have shown that you can design a taut suspension and still have a tolerable ride. Nissan didnt get the memo apparently because they have numerous models which are criticized for poor ride quality.

Yeah...but the Camaro V6 now sports 312-hp.

"When you sit here and say the 370Z is clearly superior to the Mustang/Camaro that is only based on your view of what a coupe should be."

I'd personally buy a Mustang 5.0 over the 370Z. You need to read what I wrote. I also said the Camaro is heavy. Both are true.

I read these posts and I swear some of the people posting here live in the mysterio galaxy, on planet number six. All this b*tching about horsepower, torque, weight, etc… GET REAL…. The vast majority of these cars will be used as daily driven commuters. NONE of that crap will matter to the masses that buy them. They want a cool looking car that is capable of providing them with an occasional spirited drive, period! Both of these cars are more than capable of providing that experience AS IS from the factory!

These cars are marketed for the masses. The masses WANT the creature comforts; they don’t care about un-sprung weight, dyno numbers, or any of this other garbage that doesn’t apply to daily driving because these people live in the real world. They don’t have delusional minds that think every highway in their town is an autocross track or drag strip!

The only people who truly care about performance are considered “enthusiast�. A true driving enthusiast will modify their car to their liking because they periodically drive their car, HARD, on a RACE TRACK, where weight and performance actually matter. What percentage of people purchasing these cars will actually track them? VERY FEW would be my guess. Even the majority of V8 buyers will never track their car or push it to it's limits!

Internet bench racers are the largest group of toolboxes in existence. You are the definition of retarded. You are oxygen thieves, quit stealing my air….

"Both cars MSRP are at or near 30K wow...., Hell at this point just go for the real deal & get a V8..."

HUSH. V8's cost $40k now compared to where they were a few years ago, also FYI in 2005 $30k got you 13's (low 13's if the car good for it) and 300 hp, in 2010 $30k STILL gets you 13's (relatively) and 300 hp- nothing's changed. Oh, except for that other base-model-availible-for-$22k-now thing.