Was This Prius Really "Out of Control?"

I smell fish. If he'd stood on the brake for 20 minutes with the engine at full throttle, shouldn't the brakes be smoking by now?

Prius is easy to put in neutral:

http://l.yimg.com/dv/izp/toyota_prius_base_2009_interior_gearshift.jpg

This unintended acceleration thing is so Audi-like but now we have a bored 24 hour media to feast on paranoia and ignorance.

I think he wanted to test his prius's top speed. It's strange how the media (not inside line of course) jumps on this issue of a runaway toyota when the prius uses a completely different throttle design than the vehicles affected by the recall.

Hysteria and people trying to get in on class-action lawsuits. It's a free for all with media trumping up the hype and, disappointingly, even edmunds.com is jumping in feeding it with a "gas pedal contest".

andrew20: "shouldn't the brakes be smoking by now?"

The story suggests they were. It didn't suggest he was braking the whole 20 minutes either.

Ed: "How out of control could the car have been if he was driving on a busy highway for nearly half an hour? "

What's the speed limiter on a Prius?

Ed: "The official CHP report says the officer's car never came in contact with the Prius until the two cars were stopped "

Can you publish this report? The police officer says that it was clear James was trying to brake. As you indicate, the reporter contradicts what you (a reporter?) says the police report says. I'd like to see the actual police report.

I don't doubt that we're going to get tons of people faking stories to get attention. James may be one of them. Right now, I'm not going to put my money either way.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-toyota-chp9-2010mar09,0,3699926.story?track=rss

"Once the Prius' speed dropped to about 50 mph, Sikes turned off the engine and was able to coast to a stop, the officer said.

Landeros didn't know why the driver waited until his speed had dropped to turn off the engine, but the officer speculated that Sikes feared losing the car's power steering.

The officer drove in front of Sikes' Prius to block the car if necessary. But the two cars never touched, Landeros said"

Something is totally wrong here.

The physics simply don't support these claims. Even the tiny brakes on a Gen II Prius are more than adequate to stop that powerhouse hybrid drivetrain. And if the owner really "smelled" the brakes then the were clearly engaged.

I heard the CHP officer this morning in San Diego do an interview and he mentioned the gentleman was clearly trying to stop the car with both the brakes and emergency brakes. FYI, the accelerator pedal can "jump" to it's fully engaged position...try it one time with a Toyota and resume the cruise control...the car should accelerate at WOT until speed is reached...thus the pedal "jumping" away from your foot...

how much did Sikes get paid from Saylor's lawyer?? I'm telling you, these stupid people need to learn how to come up with better lies and stories for it to work. Good actors though, but they definitely need better screen writing.

Sad to say; there are some dubious Prius owners and ambulance-chaser law firms out there looking at this and will see potential $$$$.

Wow, the media is pushing so hard to destroy Toyota. It'll be interesting to see if they really crumble like Audi did...

Thanks f1mom. The more I read, the more the story is making sense.

I'm still not willing to bet money on this being a hoax.

I'm just fed up with this whole Toyota deal; and I no longer care if some driver here or there has a scare unless I know him personally. This guy was clearly in enough control of the car to be able to call help and have help arrive. Anybody who's ever had his car truly gone out of control knows you have maybe a few seconds to do something about it IF YOU'RE LUCKY!, usually you'll have a few fractions of a second to correct. Things happen very fast, and the fact that the guy called, someone came to help and everyone got into reporting it makes this reek BS; if the car truly would have been out of control he would have crashed quickly.

I'm sure I'm not the only one around enthusiast sites who is fed up with all this "he said she said" crap, please guys...stop giving so much importance to these stories.

Braking only tends to work if you brake hard and long the first time. If you braking lightly before you realize what’s going on, you’re apt to raise their temperature and cause them to fade, after which they can’t stop you until you let them cool. I don’t know how the Prius’s regenerative system plays into all this, but I know its wheel design trades cooling ability for lower drag.

I would be very scared to turn a car off – you don’t just lose power steering, but power brakes too. And sadly, I would barely know that Neutral exists if I didn’t drive stick.

But why a Prius? Its pedals weren’t part of the recall, were they?

carlisimo says:

09:22 AM, 03/ 9/10

Braking only tends to work if you brake hard and long the first time. If you braking lightly before you realize what’s going on, you’re apt to raise their temperature and cause them to fade, after which they can’t stop you until you let them cool. I don’t know how the Prius’s regenerative system plays into all this, but I know its wheel design trades cooling ability for lower drag.

I would be very scared to turn a car off – you don’t just lose power steering, but power brakes too. And sadly, I would barely know that Neutral exists if I didn’t drive stick.

But why a Prius? Its pedals weren’t part of the recall, were they?

-----------------------------------------

what? you would barely know that Neutral exists?? how did you pass your driver lic exam? the car or cars that you have owned only has P-R-D?

First off at highway speed your steering will be fine. In fact I drive my 1976 280Z with no power steering and guess what...it's not scary. Power brakes are also not a big deal. Sure you'll have to stand on them but if you're really "Scared" you'll put the pedal through the floor.

How hard is it to put it in neutral..drop it to 1st or just shut the car off...really. If you are out of control for 20 minutes going 90 in heavy traffic I want that car to be mine. I seem to be able to only hit 20 in traffic.

Seems like this guy need to use the toll road and didn't have the EZ pass...lol. I know Toyota has some issues as all cars do but we are feeding the lawyers coal fired souls right now with catering to people like this.

How ofter do people really "punch it"...or are they just hitting cruise.

To be safe, I think all drivers who are registered drivers of a late model Toyota should be given provisional licenses until they complete a defensive driving class. Maybe it can help stop this group-think mass hysteria. And, it may encourage other drivers to cultivate good driving habits, when they see the results of properly trained and engaged motorists.

I wonder what kind of warning sticker on the dash this will legislate. There's so many stupid stickers already.

Maybe the time has finally come for the movie: Christine 2 - Attack of the Killer Toyotas!

Why do a lot of these incidents seem to happen in and around the San Diego area, anyway?

Everyone driving a Toyota wants in on the class action law suit! Thanks to the media which keeps fanning the flame. There's not much publicity in Asia or Europe as it is in the US about all these so called Toyota defects. If this incident is legitimate, thank goodness nobody got hurt.

The fact that the CHP officer could smell the guy's brakes gives this some credebility.

Total scam. I'm sure this person's Tiger Woods moment will be exposed soon. No fan of brokota, but come on, anyone can smell this dead fish from across the continent.

"This unintended acceleration thing is so Audi-like but now we have a bored 24 hour media to feast on paranoia and ignorance."

Instead of blaming the media why dont we blame Toyota owners? dont blame the media for covering a story that ORIGINATED from Toyota owners. If the owners stop "lying" then the media will stop talking about this issue. Period. Basically, Toytoa and all their defenders are calling Toyota owners a bunch of idiots who don't even know the basics of car operation. I'm sure that will do wonders for Toyota's owner loyalty ratings.

Keep in mind the REAL conclusion of yesterday's dog and pony show was that Toyota has determined that anyone who speaks of SUA is lying because its not possible in a Toyota product.

Enjoy your 15 minutes, old man.

Something stinks about this whole story, and it's not the Prius' gas pedal.

Another loser out for a Toyota-funded payday.

Just a side note... I don't think a Prius can reach 94 mph. And this James guy fellow, he's no really good with his actings.

I'd say out of control would mean operating outside of the parameters specified by the driver. Continuing to accelerate despite the driver letting off the gas and braking meets the definition of out of control. It just so happens that the Prius' speed capabilities are modest enough to handle for 20 minutes. So we're saying unintended acceleration is ok because even if your Prius keeps accelerating when you let off the gas and try to brake, you can still drive it without crashing? The lengths we'll go to to whitewash Toyota and forgive their malfeasance is sickening. If this were happening to a manufacturer from Detroit they'd be run out of business and murdered at the first sign of trouble.

anyone notice that all the unintended accleration complains are coming from kinda old people.....

@stovt001 - yes, Toyota has a problem, but then all the gold diggers show up -- like this guy. Obviously he knew how to stop the vehicle, and yet he didn't for TWENTY MINUTES. Can you say "intentional drama show"? A Prius should not be a vehicle that can over-power the brakes, though someone should be able to test and confirm this. And then we'll all know for sure this guy is lying.

The more that Toyota continues to deny that it's NOT their electronic throttle, the more I tend to believe it is. And I think when all the facts come out, there will be a larger recall of electronic throttles than the current list of vehicles that Toyota has scapegoated as the problem.

Most Prius' top out via electronic limiter at 109-118 mph. A Prius is perfectly capable of doing over 100mph on the freeway. I won't say what state but I know from personal experience.

I congratulate the driver in that video. Half the time I have to put my Prius into reverse to get it to go into neutral. How many takes did they do that for that Prius to just go into neutral so smoothly?

Yeah, I kinda thought this guy did this intentionally, but who knows for sure? When I saw him on the news giving his account, he seemed more excited about his interview than scared shittless that he almost lost his life.

I also found it strange he was able to steer an out of control car for 20 minutes going what, 90 + miles an hour without incident, even on a highway. Maybe if it was late in the night when traffic is minimal, but come on, this is a San Diego highway during the middle of the day for crying out loud.

Whatever the case, I know officials will do an investigation. If it comes out this dude faked it, then I say throw the book at em!! Better yet, make him drive a 2007 Lexus ES 350, so maybe he'll get the real deal. However, if it comes out his Prius roller coaster ride was legit, then it only means more trouble for Toyota. R.I.P.

IMO Toyota has contributed to this hysteria by appealing to the "dumb" drivers among us who see cars as appliances and not machines that need to be treated with respect. Take away the respect and you got a bunch of yahoos driving around lethal weapons. Expecting your car to just "work" without any knowledge of how a car actually works breeds ignorant hysteria. I could go into a diatribe about how US driving tests are a JOKE, but it would only depress me. :-(

Maybe this whole unintended acceleration issue is a very good excuse for us drivers to legally test our cars top speed. That is if we have a toyota to boot.

I haven't seen good evidence that makes me believe either way about this issue yet.

I think its interesting how some people jump on Toyota before the issue has been really proven. You got bandwagon full of old people who cant seem to shift into neutral or do something else to avoid a problem that hasn't been replicated. Anyone able to cause the issues after the accidents yet?

Here C/D did a full speed (70-0 and 100-0) braking test--with throttle--in a Roush, a Camry and a G37. The surprise result, it doesn't take 20 minutes to stop any of the cars. So in the Prius this guy had compromised brakes AND gremlins in the throttle?! At the same time?

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/06/c-d-does-its-own-toyota-unintended-acceleration-tests-compares/

What's w/all the Toyota fan boys? I think there's gonna be a bunch of people here w/egg on their face when Toyota issues additional recalls. I'm sure Steve Wozniak wants the money from the class action suit & that's why he's been complaining about the same issue on his Prius (since he's only a multi-millionaire that loves his Prius). The CHP officer (who has nothing to gain & I'm sure always believes excuses for lousy driving) backed up the majority of his story (burned brakes, brakes unable to over ride engine). We definitely know there's no way Toyota could have some more issues & they always tells the truth (except for the multiple cover ups they've engaged in on the various issues so far). There's multiple complaints about fixed cars still having issues. Toyota initially denied there was any problem (it was just bad drivers), then it was floor mats, then they blamed the american made gas pedals (until they realized the foreign made ones did it also), then it was worn electronic pedals. I think people here are forgetting that the Prius has regen braking & this could be part of the issue. This guy could have just shoved it in neutral (unless the other poster is right that there is feature that keeps the car from going into neutral with the engine revved up), so it would seem that he's not the brightest. But there does appear to have been an issue. Does anyone else find it amusing how many car domestic haters seem to give Toyota a free pass on most of this? I find it hard to believe that if GM had done all of this (come on.... the fixes have been cutting the gas pedal up w/a grinder to shorten it & sticking a piece of sheet metal in the pedal) they'd be wacking away at the drivers.

Industrial machine all have kill switches. I say if you have a fancy ignition (keyless or electronic) your car should have a kill switch to cut power to the fuel pump. It is a completely independent safety from the car's computer.

IF there are computer problems, programming the computer to reduce throttle when the brakes are applied won't work if the software is hosed to begin with.

With that said, I think this Prius incident is, at best a a driver that needs to RTFM and, at worst, a balloon boy style hoax.

Yes, I believe we are in living in a time of mass psychosis. The human ego is clearly out of control - more so than a Toyota car. I pray that we all wake up and shift our priorities before LIFE decides to do it for us. Just what will it take for us to wake up and see through the veils of fear and drama? These are the trappings of the mind. The media and our society simply being an extension of the mass human psychosis.

Hey Ed and the other Toyota apologists out there

1. I've been in a number of cars of modest acceleration capabilities similar to a Prius that can generate a surging or jumping feeling as they accelerate under cruise control. It usually doesn't mean anything at all like fast acceleration, just a surging of the engine that is fine as long as it settles back once cruising speed is achieved.

2. The CHP officer stated he smelled brakes as he approached, indicating the driver used the brakes, possibly keeping the car under enough control to drive for 20 minutes. Of course, I'm sure the CHP officer is just part of the grand conspiracy to ruin the auto industry golden boy.

3. So the car was eventually able to stop on its own, so unintended acceleration couldn't have happened? That's like saying if someone recovers from an illness they were never sick in the first place.

The mocking, haughty tone of this entry is shameful. So I gather there is a small select list of manufacturers that must be mercilessly slammed for any flaw, and another list of manufacturers that must be defended at all costs.

Riding the brakes will also make them smell, and unintended acceleration would have nothing to do with it. If you're gonna fake it, you should make it believable. I find the very fact that this car did stop, after being "out of control" for 20 minutes, suspicious because riding the brakes for that period of time at freeway speeds or above would kill the brakes of the vast majority of vehicles until they faded too badly to be effective and the Prius has marginal brakes to begin with.

I have always been under the impression that, generally, an average sedan does not produce enough torque or power to overpower the brakes. Isn't that how people drag race automatic cars? They use the brakes to hold the car while they rev the engine up to a certain rpm. Even if the the car has enough power, enough braking force can be applied to slow the vehicle down to a safe speed or until something breaks.

If anything it might actually be the cruise control trying to resume it's set speed?

Okay, guys, check this out:

1.) Just because the guy didn't have the sense to put the car in neutral *** DOES NOT MEAN THAT THERE WASN'T A PROBLEM WITH THE PRIUS IN THE FIRST PLACE. ***

2.) Please read point #1 a second time.

3.) I'm not saying it isn't possible that the guy is faking it for publicity's sake, but please keep in mind that self-important sneering in your blog post isn't actually evidence of anything.

That is all.

The smell of doo doo Is In the air, BS

Maybe this nice lady, who is so happily demonstrating how her Prius NORMALLY acts will have the happy experience of demonstrating how easy it is to take her car out of gear when the gas pedal is fully depressed WITHOUT her doing anything to keep it down. I like it how people who haven't HAD the experience know all about it. Isn't she smart to be able to drive a normally functioning car normally? Good job! and big WOW.

Wow, some of these comments on here are pretty funny. I love how people immediately blame the driver of committing fraud and setting this whole thing up. I guess the runaway Lexus that killed 4 people was also a staged event to get on TV. People here are acting like this was the first case that has ever happened before and after the fake recalls. This is not the only case of a runaway Toyota after the recalls. Of course the people that are flaming this guy probably believe that a floor mat and a pedal were to blame for the thousands of reports and 30+ deaths too.

The fact is Toyota knows it has a more serious issue at hand but have to continue to deny the problem because of their current lawsuits. What they fail to realize is that even if they save some money in these current lawsuits and in dummy recalls, they are going to lose more money after these runaway Toyota stories continue to surface and they have to recall every car to replace their ETC.

Old punk, you shouldn't even be driving...

Unintended acceleration my @$$!

Look on the bright side; if Toyotas keep killing stupid drivers the median IQ of the American driving public can only increase.
The law of natural selection is a wonderful thing.

I'm thinking...NO! Seems too fishy. Anyone could easily hold one foot on the accelerator and the other on the brake. With all of Toyota's woes they are an easy mark for fraud right now. It's not impossible that the car messed up, but I don't think so.

You guys are right, people that get into car wrecks are just crooks. Or just want attention. Some are just bored and don't get cable. Thank you so much for those insightful comments.

Doesn't the Prius have regenerative braking? If the guy was pressing the brakes, even lightly, the brake lights would function without the car slowing down. The real question is, after 20 min, were the batteries fully charged?

Its interesting that a person could drive a car at 90 mph in CA without hitting another car or losing any control, make a phone call and eventually come to a complete stop without wrecking the car. This guy was a professional and should be a stunt car driver.

"...after 20 min, were the batteries fully charged?"

That's funny...and I had thought of the regenerative braking as well.

I am not really a fan of Toyota, but I think this is getting to the point where media hype, hysteria, and group think have overshadowed any real risk, or resemblance of reality. It's like a witch trial: "OH god, that Toyota is accelerating unintentionally..AAAHHH" "Where?-Oh I see it, I see it" "I see it too" "Unintended acceleration is everywhere-----AAAHHHHHHHHHHH."

Good grief.

Would you people give the "media hype" thing a rest? TOYOTA OWNERS are generating the stories and the media is covering them because Toyota has been in the news a lot lately. Toyota has a problem with its owners if they are randomly lying to get attention. If that be the case I guess we should question the intelligence, competence and honesty of Toyota owners if they are willing to lie to gain noteriety.

I have seen a lot of comments about this guy looking for a pay day. How the hell is he going to win money in court when there wasn't even an accident? Use common sense. You cant win damages when no one was hurt and no crash occured. Sharing his story with the news doesn't entitle him to get paid in court.

From researching the web, the top speed of a Prius are around 100mph+. Did this guy press the brakes when the car hit 90 and to avoid damaging the brakes, "chose" not to apply full pressure to slow the car even further? Even if he was "stomping" on the brakes, the car would have continued to increase in speed until it hit max speed vs stop at 90.

This guy was calm, and in control but forgots to use neutral to slow the car down. He says he didn't want to turn off the car and risk losing power steering. He does everything else except forgets to use neutral. For a person who didn't panic, and knew something about hybrid cars, he forgets the obvious. It would be interesting to hear the 911 call.

The biggest thing is Toyota lied and their fix didn't fix anything. People are still having the acceleration issues. The fact that their sales are up 50% through March 8th says how little people care about OTHER peoples safety on the road. They should be forced to drive these things in the desert where no one else is. Big deal if THEY die. I don't want my family put in danger though. Can't even believe that some will defend Toyota. They are not the same Toyota you knew 10 or fifteen years ago.

I think once all this is over, some new design will be applied, new regulation will be enforced, cars may be a tiny bit safer, but also weight more and cost more. And weather Toyota is at fault or not, it will lose huge money which mostly goes to lawyers and recalls that may never be proven useful or not.
But after all, no machine is perfect and all manmade broke at some point. Everyone has to understand this and learn a trick or two for emergency stopping, no matter what type of car people drive. This may apply to other things in live as well; always have a plan for fire or earthquake…etc, no matter how sound your property looks like.

niss, still no proof these isn't driver caused. The case in NYC sounds like an old person running into a wall. Just like with Audi in the 80s.

1487, he'll still sue. He was scared and embarrassed nationally. He'll make the effort that Toyota owes him. A guy sued lambo 10 years ago for emotional distress. What distress? His doors wouldn't open and he would have to ask others to open the door for him.

"he'll still sue"

Exactly- it's called "infliction of emotional distress". The media feeding frenzy is bringing the opportunists and ambulance chasers out from under every rock- with visions of multi-million dollar punitive damage awards and 40% contingency fees dancing in their heads.
NEVER underestimate the American legal system's jackpot theory of justice...

So the possibility of fraud means there is zero probability of this being a real incident. We got ourselves some real statistics whizzes here.

Shame on you Ed go to Hellwig. Who are you to say this guy is full of BS? Toyota is building junk. Plain and simple. They wanted to be as big as GM and compromised safety and quality to do it. This is 2010. This issue can't be compared to anything that happened in the 80's. The technology is far more advanced than in the 80's. Everyone commenting on this article would do the exact same thing. Easy to say what you would do having never been in the situation. This was just the Prius. Other cars people have tried to put the car in nuetral and haven't been able to. Right now if you want to buy a Toyota, only drive it in the desert. Kill yourself. Don't put my family in danger.

It just doesn't add up. I hope this isn't another ballon-boy story. Is it really that easy to smell burned brake pads/rotors at over 90 mph. I can understand once he stopped, but while it was moving...come on. If they were to the point of failure and started smoking, applying the hand-brake would be useless.

A few other questions:
How quickly did the CHP get there? and where was CHP located when he made the phone call?

Why did it top out at 90 or 94 mph? If the throtle was stuck at wide open, which it would have needed to in order to reach that speed, then why wasn't it higher. He certainly had enough time and roadway. Also, not shutting the engine off because he was afraid he wouldn't have power steering...what BS. This guy has to be around 70 and he's never driven a car without power steering. Heck, some exotic sports car still don't have power steering and they work fine.

I could care less what happens to Toyota. Something about this guy bothers me. It seems like any fool in Toyota has an excuse to speed now. This guy was doing 90 mph and didn't get a ticket, not even a warning. I wonder how many people will use this in traffic court to get out of a ticket.

niss2,
If toyota is building junk, then what is VW-Audi building. Maybe you should check the stats on UA first huh?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124235858

VW-Audi has a higher rate of UA (complaints filed wtih NHTSA per 100,000 vehicles) than Toyota, yet you here nothing about them. Seems like every auto manufacturer have UA. I guess everyone is building junk too.

titancrew-

VW-Audi is not killing people and then calling their own customers liars. People are still buying Toyota's knowing that they have this problem, only because they think they got a good deal saving twenty or thirty bucks a month. My family and I are worth more than a few bucks a month. I hope you feel the same way about yours.

Niss, do you lock your family inside when it's raining? Accidents go up dramatically...wouldn't want to risk your family on the off chance they could be involved.

Get real. The total number of cases per car on the road is so slim. And again, there's no real proof that these cars are speeding of their own accord.

It's called muckraking. This is journalism in 2010.

blueguydotcom

Would you let a little kid play with a loaded gun in public? How about that same gun unloaded in public? I do agree journalism is no good these days, but some guy one day didn't just decide to say his Toyota sped out of control. Then everybody else followed suit. There is a REAL issue with Toyota, even though other brands have some minor acceleration issues too. The main reason everyone is mad is because Toyota is calling it's own customers liars. Toyota can't prove that they ARE driver related issues either.

@Niss,

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Millions of toyota vehicles on the road and as of now we've got one solid case of a person getting into a fatal crash based on a floormat getting wedged.

You stand an infinitely better chance of getting into a wreck with a driver under the influence of alcohol or prescription drugs. The problem of a Toyota car isn't really something to worry about. Most of the concern should be with the drivers in ALL cars. The odds of a Toyota suddenly accelerating and crashing into you are so much smaller than dying from all other forms of a crash.

And Toyota is taking the stance that is prudent...sorry but the customer is almost always wrong.

blueguydotcom:

Who do you work for? Toyota maybe? I realize the probablity is very low that it will be your car, but why take the chance. There are many cars out there better than Toyota anyway. If you own one before this issue came to light fine, but to now go out and buy one because you can get a so called "better deal" is just dumb. If Toyota's were so good, they would be able to get more than the invoice price or less for them. That goes in another direction about the car business as a whole though. Sell all new cars at invoice and close your doors. Sell them at least $1000 over on average and the indusrty as a whole will be better. Customers will be happier too. The most upset customers are the ones who completely confuse themselves looking at every car and price on the internet. Edmunds should stick to reviewing autos and stay out of buying.

niss2,

According to you, less the dealer discount the car, the better the car. So less incentives/rebates = better car. That mean Toyota vehicles are the second best vehicle behind Honda vehicles since they have had the second lowest incentive cost in Jan 2010. The domestic makers are the worst, with Ford making the worst vehicle.

http://www.autoobserver.com/2010/02/despite-toyota-fighting-promotions-january-incentives-dip-edmundscom-reports.html

By the way, you are taking a chance everytime you drive any car. According to NHTSA, 95% of vehicle accidents are due to driver error and only 2% are due to vehicle.

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/congress-considers-nhtsas-future-in-light-of-recalls.html

Full disclosure: I own a 2008 Toyota Camry SE V6 (wife's daily driver). We had the metal shim installed as part of the recall, but we have not had any issues with this car at all. BTW, we bought the Camry because it was the best car in its class after driving most of the competition (Aura, Accord, Altima, and Fusion).

niss2,
Toyota builds boring cars, not junk cars.
I personally don't buy Toyota because it doesn't suit my driving style. But I have no problem if my wife wants one.
All manmade fail eventually and people die in all kinds of car. The chance that a Toyota fails, according to statics, is still lower than many other brands. And, statics are more dependable than some nonsense stories.

@Blue

@ Blue Actually, according to the news articles, the total number of related deaths (per the NHTSA) attributed to the Toyota issues now stands at 39.

I'm not saying this guy is right, but odds are he is & it's not some grand conspiracy between him, the CHP, press, NHTSA, & the MANY other people that this has happened to. I'm not saying people aren't bad drivers, but it's becoming pretty apparent Toyota cut some serious corners to become #1. Documents are starting to leak from Toyota that they tried to bury complaints, blamed suppliers & customers, hid known issues that their engineers & attorneys pointed out. I'm sure they'll adjust their business practices, but the corporate arrogance they've apologized for reminds me off the big three in the 70's & 80's. Toyota decided against a brake/accelerator lock out. They cut cost corners. There'll be some additional things to come to light as more documents/emails come out. They're a good car company tho' & they'll recover once they refocus (as they've admitted they need to do).

titancrew:

Your Camry is not even in the top five in it's class. I have an 2008 Altima 3.5SE. The only way the Camry is better is the ride is a little softer or what I like to call older. The majority of it's buyers are baby boomers. Toyota knows that is the wrong class to go after for their #1 selling car. If you want to see some decent quality without cutting cost just open the front doors on your Camry and then an Altima. Unfinished bulk head in the A pillar with visible insulation on the Camry and the hinges aren't very strong. The Altima is completely sealed up and the hinges are very strong. I live in MN and they use a lot of salt on the roads. You should see some of the Camry's. The salt has eaten the insulation away and gets on the inside of the front fenders and starts to rust them out. Not even possible on the Altima. If you don't think that Toyota built a Car just to get by, then you really didn't check out the competition.

This guy is a complete fraud:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589090,00.html