2011 Infiniti G25 Update: Car Is for Sure, But No Turbo

I forgive you. You guys always do the right thing so mistakes happen. Thank you for the juicy tidbit as I have not seen this info on any other Automotive website I have been on. Not unusual around here as you are on of my favorite places for up to the minute info on the web or anywhere for that matter. Keep up the good work IL.

This is disappointing... very... was really hoping for the VQ25DET.

This is sad and borderline laughable. A base CTS has 270hp from a 3L DI engine. Don't tell me Nissan couldn't get adequate mileage from a 3L VQ with the 7 spd automatic.

@chavis10

It's all about packaging- they still produce a 2.5L V6 while the 3.0L VQ has been out of production for some time now. If they tried to re-start production on the 3.0L, I'm not sure the price would still be competitive, especially compared to the 3.7L

are they serious? Why would you do this?

While this would be almost competitive with the 328 that car will be replaced within 2 years and likely will get a power boost. TL comes with 280hp standard, CTS comes with 270hp and even the 2011 Regal offers 220hp. Why not just offer a 3.5L tuned for more efficiency? The G is a light sedan but its not light enough to make this engine worthwhile. The IS250s engine is a joke so I see no reason why they would benchmark that car for hp.

It's all about sales so if the IS250 sells strong others will follow... At this level of relatively low powered cars the name of the game is price, looks and interior quality (I guess). Don't forget that gas prices are creeping up again.

the reviews of the IS250 are disappointing. however, i see those little crappers all over the Boston area (AWD availability helps), so Lexus is doing something right!

Infiniti is smart to try to tap into that population. there are plenty of people who are perfectly happy driving around in a Corolla-like powertrain, as long as it has a luxury brand name, some decent leather, gadgets, etc.

@banhugh: I think the IS250 sells well because it's the only IS available with AWD. 99% of IS' is see here in NY are IS250 AWD models.

Also, I'm disappointed that it's not a Turbo 4.

1487, I think that answer to your last question in found in the words "...strong-selling Lexus IS250."

Ok, now we all know that the G25 will be NA. There may still be hope.
Dear Nissan/Infiniti, if you're listening try this:
Bump up the CR to 11:1 or more, implement DI and get the VQ25HR to put out 250+HP. Is that too much to ask?

Will it also be cheaper?

This makes sense. It would be hard to sell a turbo for much less than a non-turbo, even if the latter is a larger engine.

I don't think that many people care about power as long as it's "good enough," so this should work out well for Infiniti.

"1487, I think that answer to your last question in found in the words "...strong-selling Lexus IS250."

And yet no one has provided any figures to back that up. I believe the IS sells 3k-4k units a month and I have no idea what % are 250 models but I suspect the 250 sells because it is the only model with AWD. That doesn't mean people love the 2.5L engine. In addition, the IS is smaller and possibly lighter than the G. Plus the IS250 has been on the market since 2005. What was acceptable in 2005 is not in 2010. Infiniti is trying to solve a problem on the cheap- what they need is a DI 3L V6 making about 260hp. I can guarantee you that this car will net no more than 2mpg more than the big V6. Check the IS for reference.

205hp is "good enough" for a luxury sports sedan costing over 30 grand? It seems to me they want to create a stripper model that can have a low base price knowing it wont really sell that much.

It's a smart move. The 250, while only modestly cheaper, will move a lot more units than the 370 alone can.

Here's my .02.

Its not all about power. Yes..HP sells cars. Its helped Nissan and Infiniti a ton over the last decade. But its not the end all to be all.

Believe it or not...some people DONT' floor their cars and DON'T drive faster than 75mph. And in real work driving, most cars are just fine. Do 4cyl altimas and cobalts etc...really care? No. Press the gas and in a few seconds you're going 30mph.

I give them props for this. Plus..they have to raise their CAFE number. This will help them.

BTW: I'm sure they are not getting out of the horsepower race. The 3.7L is tuned up to 350HP in the Nismo Z. These VQ's don't even have DI (not sure why they are waiting)...but I'm sure they can get even more power out of it.

Mike S.

Thanks for the update Scott.

DISASTER
First off this will not dent 328i sales. Its a joke to imply the IS250 & G25 will pose any sort of threat to the 328i. As someone said, IS250 sales are disappointing, so if Infiniti is trying to split the 3k/mnth sales with Lexus then so be it. I agree with the statement that Infiniti is trying to solve the problem on the cheap. Since this is sold in outside the US, I guess this is a nice first step with a major overhaul in the coming years when the G line is revamped.

seriously, you guys need to get a hold on reality... not everyone wants power. they want a luxury car they can afford.

This isn't too horrible of an idea. Maybe they're learning there's more to a car than having the most HP. Perhaps they learned this from watching the 328i and IS250 outsell their more powerful siblings. Someone at nissan must've thought, 'hey, if we add a cheaper, less powerful version too, maybe we will draw in more buyers'.

Also, the smaller engine could possibly help in three other ways; better handling, less NVH, and improved MPG.

The car is destined to be a "wife's car" for the trophy wife.

And besides, it's not like Infiniti has to "reinvent the wheel" or start from scratch. They already HAVE been selling the G25 aka Skyline 250GT in Japan. They just need to import it to North America.

I think this is a very smart move on Infiniti's part. The IS250 is one of Lexus' stronger selling models and most IS cars that I see on the road are 250s. It is refreshing to see a car that is actually offering less horsepower, as I think the horsepower race is getting a little out of control.

The IS's sales are not disappointing, as many have pointed out. The car is simply getting a little long-in-tooth and is due for a redesign. Lexus sold nearly 35,000 IS models in 2008, and sales last year were closer to 25,000 as new models like the CTS were introduced. Sales of the IS peaked in 2006 at nearly 60,000 units and over 3/4 of this was from the IS250. The CTS barely managed 40k units in its introductory year - likely due to the bad economy, because the car is definitely competitive.

Another thing to look at is the TSX. Back in 2005, Honda was at its peak and had reached record global sales - http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1090/releases/3357. The TSX (remember the good-looking one?) was only available with a 200 hp 4 cylinder and its sales peaked during this time at 34,000 units. So, for Lexus to sell nearly 1,000 more IS's in economically-depressed 2008 shows that sales of the IS are strong and very important for Lexus.

Having said that, people are all about fuel efficiency these days, and Lexus, BMW, and Acura have proven that you don't need a big V6 with a lot of HP to produce a strong seller. 1487, why do you think the Regal only has 220 hp? After all, isn't a car in the luxury class "supposed" to have almost 300? The difference between the 205 hp in the IS250, the 210 hp in the G25, and the 220 hp in the Regal is negligible. The point is that people these days want a cheaper, more fuel efficient option - hence the reintroduction of the Regal in the first place. I think it would be smart for Cadillac to introduce a CTS with the Regal's engine. Truthfully, who really needs 300-ish horsepower? Nobody.

Smart move, Infiniti. With this, a redesigned 250 in the works, and the introduction of the Regal, BMW should be worried about the 328i.

Firstly, Infiniti isn't losing much and I bet this will MSRP for less than $30K. Its already made so theres no R&D needed.

As for the CTS having more standard HP, it costs around $36K whereas the G37 starts around $34K. The basic CTS' driving mechanics are more aimed at Benz and Lexus. Plus the G has 330/328hp. The G37 is priced lower, drives better, and is faster than the CTS. Stop praising it without considering the context.

I don't think its a mileage thing really, Nissan has never aimed for mileage (DATSUN did back in the day), rather performance. This is aimed to get people who want a Maxima or fully loaded Altima, but would want a luxury marque and the other goodies that come with it, since for the same price, they could buy a used G35/37 for the same price as their new Maxima/Altima 3.5SR

Edmunds quoted the VQ25DE, which is no longer used in the luxury cars...
The VQ25HR makes 220-225 hp...
http://www2.nissan.co.jp/SKYLINE/

The current VQ37HR gets 21 mpg average (Japan 9.7 km/l), and the VQ25HR should get 26 mpg average (Japan 12.2 km/l).
That's a significant mpg advantage.

Damn...can't edmunds get anything right. The current Skyline 250GT uses the VQ25HR!

As billt9 said...its around 220 HP

thq VQ25HR makes better mpg than the 4GR-FSE, which only gets 24 mpg (Japan 11.8 km/l).
The BMW328i 230 hp gets 22 mpg, the Cadillac CTS 3.0L 270 hp gets 22 mpg.

In Europe the Audi A4 makes 120 hp, the C-class makes 136 hp, the 318i makes 143 hp, and the 316d makes 115 hp.
Less is better!

Scott Oldham,

They just released G25 in China and it has 235 hp / 187 lb.ft. It uses the VQ25HR. Not the VQ25DE which are the HP numbers you are quoting. Your article is still incorrect.

The Skyline 250GT with the VQ25HR is capable of very high real world mileage. (38 MPG to be exact).

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/03/nissan_v6_skyli.html

lexus gets away with selling the is250 w/ a pathetic engine because its a lexus and it attracts lexus buyers. infiniti, on the other hand, wont be doing itself favors with putting this weak engine in what was the fastest car for the money. look at 0-60 times, not hp ratings. the bmw 328i accelerates to 60 easily under 7 seconds while the IS has a hard time breaking 8. i suspect that the infiniti engine will be on the lexus side of things. infiniti is losing its focus

This article is still WRONG! Come on Scott, you can do better than this. The "HR" engine used in the Skyline has 222hp, not 210. It also has 194lb.ft. of torque. You are quoting numbers from the older "DE" engine.

I wish they would just spend a bit more and chop the platform shorter. Put it right between the 1 and 3 series, lighten it up a bit.

I'm note sure I get V6 engines with 200 lb ft of torque. ???

It's a waste of 2 cylinders.

This is why people love cars like the A4. 2.0T turbo with 258lb ft of torque that dusts all it's competitors base V6's engines. 30 plus MPG on the Hwy.

Most of the internet Geeks need to realize that not everybody wants 300 horsepower.

We're way too spolied with HP here in the US and most parts of the world have to live with far less than we do. And when gas is $5 a gallon again, the whole thing will come to pass once again.

it is disappointing but it makes more sense for infiniti. an engine with close to 280hp will steal sales from the G37. but make the NA V6 more powerful to be more competitive wont hurt either.. maybe somewhere close to what the 328i is making. 230-240hp.

"ddark13 says: infiniti is losing its focus"

Huh? Are you sure about that? Is that why the new M56 has a huge 420hp/417lb.ft 5.6 liter DI V8? They are not losing focus, they are just wanting to attract a wider audience and new sales. No car company wants more sales right? I think I read one time that the the IS250 has like a 8:1 sales ratio vs. the IS350.

Having a two-engine option is just plain old good business, period.

So a company known for big bore V6s and V8s makes one smart business move and that's "losing its focus"? Gimme a break.

As bmwm1 says, the new M56 has a massive V8, and I've heard rumors that future versions of the G37 will have around 350 hp. The FX also has a ridiculously large and powerful engine. They are definitely not losing focus, just trying to even out their lineup with other luxury automakers. Ya, the IS250 may be slow for its class but the V6 is smooth and quiet and provides adequate power....exactly what people want in a luxury car. Infiniti obviously gets this.....what they're doing here is good business and will boost sales.

That's something the general public understands but for some reason these 'enthusiasts' on sites like this one have a hard time wrapping their heads around such a concept.

"This is why people love cars like the A4. 2.0T turbo with 258lb ft of torque that dusts all it's competitors base V6's engines. 30 plus MPG on the Hwy."

Im not sure who 'people' are, but there are far better choices to love than the a4's rough idling, nasty sounding turbo four; the TSX, for one.

And the a4 hardly 'dusts' any base V6, coming in dead last 0-60, 5-60, and 1/4 mile, when compared to the TL, 328i, and G37 in C&D. And the mileage isnt great either; crossovers do better.

I dont know how ANYone could pay the ridiculous asking price for a car with such an underwhelming engine. Guess there really is one born every minute.

210hp is totally fine as long as it priced right. People who has $$ and wants more power can always buy a G37 or even a M56. But the reality is a lot of people out there don't street race and they follow the hoghway speed limits. I'd say 150hp is plenty for daily use. In fact I lived in Asia sometime ago and my car was only 75hp, it did just fine; and I had a small motorcycle that can run 80mph with only 20ps.

"I have no idea what % are 250 models but I suspect the 250 sells because it is the only model with AWD. That doesn't mean people love the 2.5L engine."

1487, I couldn't find a breakout of sales either, but clearly the relatively low power of the IS250 (especially when combined with power sapping AWD) hasn't been a problem for buyers.

I'm generally a more power guy (insert Tim Allen style grunts here), but for some people, just enough is plenty. If the price is right, Infiniti might get a nice boost in sales from this vehicle.

At more than 3500 pounds the RWD G sedan is no lightweight. If Infiniti were to develop a smaller RWD entry-level sedan, keep the weight under 3000 pounds, and maintain decent luxury and handling standards, then an engine with 200-250 bhp would make more sense from an enthusiast’s standpoint. If the price could be kept under $30,000 with a slick six-speed manual and modest options, it would end up on my short list. I had high hopes for BMW’s 128 coupe, but it is too heavy, expensive, and (to my eye) unattractive. Of all the Japanese brands, Infiniti could probably best execute the kind of car I have in mind. I’d even throw in a couple of thousand dollars extra for AWD if they could keep that version’s weight under 3200 pounds.

How can the G25 sedan be competitive with the smaller, nimbler and more powerful BMW 328i? The car won't win any awards in that fight except for being less expensive than the BMW. Besides, that is what the G35 and G37 are for anyway.

If you look at 3-series sales, broken down by trim level
About half would be the base model, with another 15% being base + AWD

Lexus sells about 4k IS a month
About 80% are 250
Probably half of those (about 1600) are AWD

This may prelude Infiniti moving the G37 upmarket to stay with the 335i
The G25 will be $31k
G37 about $37k

250HP is a perfect mix of power and reasonable economy
And NO ONE OFFERS 250HP!

I still think the 328 is the ideal
230HP (HGH-laden)
AWD with stick or auto
Rusty

For you, bankerdanny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAhVmjptZMI

There is a good reason why this car exists. Ever wondered why the most popular version of most models is the cheapest? Well because most consumers don't have the financial depth to field the highest model. Furthermore, some that do are wise in their decision and are confident enough in their self image to be content with a "standard" or "base" model of a given car. And let's all be honest with ourselves, how often are we, no matter how inclined we are towards "sporty driving" going to be able to fully exploit the capabilities of the machines we buy? In the end, sensibility will reign, and this car will do well in the marketplace.

Can't say that I'm overly impressed with the engine stats. 210 HP from a 2.5 liter V6 is very respectable, but only 195 lb-ft of torque? They should bump it up to the 200s, I'm not really a fan of having to push the engine to its absolute limit just to get some good speed when passing or accelerating.

Other than that.....I'd buy one.

Lemiet is spot on...

Smart move by Infiniti. They are creating cars for people in the REAL world who live within their means (less than 10% of their monthly budget for a car and necessary expenses for operating) but want quality and style.

The majority of people who say this is laughable are no where near being in the market for this car. Want a car with gobs of power and you have unlimited imaginary money? That's what Gran Turismo is for.

And I hope the person who said that the power is "Corolla-like" is not make a direct comparison between 210 hp and the power of a Corolla because that would be completely moronic.

I'm always amused about the arguments on power, as if that is a measure of your testosterone levels or something.

I like *drivers cars*. To me, *driving* is the acceleration, the handling, the precision of the steering, the braking. To think that acceleration -alone- is the measure of a driver's car is a bit like using chest size as the only measure of a fit girlfriend. :)

I bought a V6 Audi A4 in 1998 and even then it was over $30K. It also had only 190hp. Yet it was such a pleasure to drive - the handling, the shift linkage, the steering, the road feel - the power was very adequate.

The G25 looks potentially like a great car. I may check it out, even with that puny engine. :)

If you want power there are always Corvettes, Camaros, and Mustangs. Noise and acceleration!

Still a great idea. The 328, to me, is more enjoyable to drive than the 335i (people can argue but I've owned a 335i and 2 330is and the lighter cars were more engaging). I think a lightened G is wonderful and a big bump in mpgs matched to probably a 4-5k lower price tag will = big sales. 30-31k for the G25 sounds good. That'll make it around 28k with more on than a comparable 3 or IS.

Nothing but excuses. The G is supposed to be a sports sedan and unlike the 3 series its a midsize car. This amount is of power is pathetic and benchmarking a 5 year old Lexus as justification is absurd. A few months ago IL put up performance numbers for a Lacrosse with the base 3L engine and numerous people chimed in about how that level of performance and that engine weren't appropriate for a luxury brand. Now we hear of a G with far less power and torque and everyone is supportive of the idea. This car will NOT get much better mileage than the G37. Smaller engines generate better mileage when powering light vehicles. Look at GM's vehicles with the 3L V6- they dont even get better mileage than they would with the 3.6L V6. I already pointed out the IS250 barely gets better mileage than the IS350 in spite of having over 100 less hp. It will be the same with the G and this is simply a cheap bandaid solution. Infiniti needs to start using DI and catch up to Cadillac, Lexus and the Europeans.

bdc:

What evidence is out there that an anemic engine in a 3500lb car will produce a big bump in mileage. Furthermore, the base G already comes without a lot of kit so don't hold your breath for a $5k price drop. I would expect a couple thousand at the most. As for weight loss- how much do you really expect? weight will probably drop less than 100lbs- again compare the IS250 and 350 for reference.

"This is sad and borderline laughable. A base CTS has 270hp from a 3L DI engine."

The base CTS also weighs 300lbs more than a G37. Meaning, that difference will probably be closer to 400lbs with the G25. Coupled with the closer-ratio 7-spd, I would bet the G25 out performs the Caddy in all respects.

Is it safe to say if these cars (G35 and G25) had been introduced in reverse order there would probably be 0 backlash like there has been in the last 2 days since word of this vehicle's existance came out? G25 first, then a "more powerful, less fuel efficient" 330 hp G35/7. Since it is the other way around people can't wrap their minds around it. I find it kind of funny. Every other company has an entry level engine and then a performance engine as well in their small/midsize sedan. Why does Infiniti get roasted for doing so? Must be the order of introduction. With that said - a 4cyl turbo makes more sense to me but whatever you know.

And a second comment if I may... What did people do with all of their opinions before the internet and chat rooms came about?????

"What evidence is out there that an anemic engine in a 3500lb car will produce a big bump in mileage. "

Er, government rated comparison evidence?
This car has been in production and on sale for years, it's an old car since 2007.
It's just coming to America now since America's now more open to what the rest of the planet Earth buys. And the engine is old too.

It's already rated at:
G37: 9.7 km/L
G25: 12.2 km/L

Which translates to EPA 25-26 mpg. That's a big bump from 21 mpg.
We're not speculating mpg, it's an old car, old engine, and it's been government rated.

Correction, the G25 with the VQ25HR went on sale in late 2006.

"Which translates to EPA 25-26 mpg. That's a big bump from 21 mpg.
We're not speculating mpg, it's an old car, old engine, and it's been government rated."

Please give me US ratings. Euro and Japanese mileage ratings do not directly transfer to EPA ratings. No V6 powered car averages 26mpg, not even the IS250. The Equinox is rated at 22/32 and its combined EPA number is about 26. Do you really expect a G25 to average 26mpg with a V6? The IS gets nowhere near that. I believe the 328 is rated at 18/28.

"The base CTS also weighs 300lbs more than a G37. Meaning, that difference will probably be closer to 400lbs with the G25. Coupled with the closer-ratio 7-spd, I would bet the G25 out performs the Caddy in all respects."

The C300, TL, 328i and various other cars still offer more power and similar curb weights.

1487 you just don't understand...

Maybe you need to drive a Lotus one day to get the best explanation as to why HP doesn't matter as much on the track. In fact why HP doesn't mean "Sport", otherwise all of these big brash flagship cars would be Sports cars.

Lexuses are not meant to be sporty. They never are (Well besides the F obviously). They cater to softer crowds.

Infiniti has always geared their handling to the sporty side (Hence why the original Q45 was THE best flagship of its time. Besting the Bemer, Benz, Lexus, Jag, etc). This car will drive sportier than a Lexus is250, HP is not the name of the game here for sport.

Furthermore, you don't know the G heritage. The G20 was made to be a lighweight competitor to the BMW 3 series at the time. It only boasted a 4 cylinder engine from a sentra. While it handled sportily, the power was terribly lacking. "Born in Japan. Educated in Europe. Now Available in America." It didn't need gobs of power, it needed just enough. The problem was that wasn't enough and the engineers messed up on that part. The G25 seems to be an ode to the old G20, except this time, it will have adequate power for the full sport experience.

A G37 starts for LESS than a CTS, weighs LESS than a CTS, and is FASTER than a CTS.

Besides, theres already a turbo setup on some guy's G37 getting 500hp, maybe looking into one of those is up your alley.

The IS250 sells well for two reasons- it's one the most affordable Lexus models and it's the only IS available with AWD. The power is a joke considering what you can get in other vehicles so this purchase is all about getting into the Lexus brand. I would wager that greater than 90% of all the IS250s I see in my area (philadelphia) are AWD models (same goes for the GS350). I bet it is a challenege to even find a RWD IS250 in this region.

I simply don't see the point of purchasing an underpowered entry level luxury vehicle. If I can't afford the uplevel model new, I'll just get it pre-owned. If I'm driving a RWD "performance" Infiniti or Lexus, I won't feel too good about being smoked by a FWD Mazda6, Altima, Malibu or Camry V6 family hauler.

Not sure why people are opposed to a 200 HP RWD sport sedan. Yeah a 2.0 Turbo might deliver more power (say like Audi's meatier one with 240-250 hp) but having owned a 2.0T for 3 years I'm not really convinced I'd want that as my personal driver. Having owned several 6s in my life, I can say that the top end HP doesn't mean as much to me as the smooth revs, the easy flow at 70-80-90-100 mph and the smoothness with the AC running. I've yet to ride in a turbo 4 car that doesn't feel bogged down with the AC going full tilt. They never feel smooth to me either. Ever. If I drive an A3/A4 with the 2.0T and then slide into an older E46 2.5 inline 6... I'll take the 6. The 3.0 inline 6 and the old 3.0 VQ were delicious to drive too. the bigger bore sixes aren't winning me over yet as the engine's feel positively truck-like. Toyota, Ford and Nissan's current big bore 6s lack the smooth flow (much like boosted 4s and large bore 4s feel).

Again, just perception. I still think a 3,0 VQ would be the bee's knees in the G30.

As for pricing, Infiniti should decontent the car a bit. Right now the G37 competes against the 335i on price. The 328i is about the same scratch and Infiniti has nice sales. Drop in a G25 for 4-5k less and you get the dynamic of "why choose a 328 when you can save 4 grand on this car). It also allows Infiniti to cast a net for the CC's buyers, the Accord V6, the Camry V6, etc. 28-30k for an Accord or that much for an Infiniti.

thammer62 says:
"And a second comment if I may... What did people do with all of their opinions before the internet and chat rooms came about?????"

We shared them amongst our local friends at the bar or some other social gathering where "like minds" associate. ;-) The only difference is that the internet has made it FAR easier for like minds anywhere and everywhere to congregate.

chavis10 says:
"I simply don't see the point of purchasing an underpowered entry level luxury vehicle. If I can't afford the uplevel model new, I'll just get it pre-owned. If I'm driving a RWD "performance" Infiniti or Lexus, I won't feel too good about being smoked by a FWD Mazda6, Altima, Malibu or Camry V6 family hauler"

To Chavis10 and all others that constantly harp on the supposed "lack of power" (although we don't have official specs yet), please realize that not everyone who buys a Lex, BMW, MB, Infiniti, Audi or some other upscale brand are concerned with 0-60 or stoplight races. How often will you taking your car to the track or auto-crossing? Heck, if performance is that important, why even consider a sedan in the first place? There are people out there that want to own a nice upscale car to feel good about themselves or to impress others. And if a person in a family sedan wants to "race" you in a G25, let him/her do so. They'll get the ticket for reckless driving while you cruise by and wave to him/her.

Bottom line: some people (women, mature people) just want a nice comfy upscale cruiser and Infiniti is just trying to get a piece of that pie.

chavis10, do you actually live in the real world where people drive somewhat sensibly? On my drive to work I didn't see every car at the red light launch themselves off to a drag race when the light turned green.

I live in CA where there are plenty of RWD IS250s. Its one of the most common cars I see (I also happen to live in the OC), so I can vouch for the success of a lower-powered luxury sedan.

Not everyone needs to have 300hp under the hood. I drive a 340whp Evo so to me the more power the better. My parents are a different story, and I'm sure they are a better representation of your average driver. 200hp is adaquate for daily driving, and if Infiniti can knock off about 4k from using a smaller engine (price difference between IS250 and IS350), that will really undercut their competitors. Just because its not your cup of tea (its certainly not mine) doesn't mean it won't have mass appeal.

Another obvious reason they're releasing this model is because Infiniti is trying to enter the European market. If any of you have ever ventured out of the States, you'll know that 1) gas price is much higher there 2) you don't get to drive very fast 3) CO2 emissions gets taxed. I imagine that the G25 will more popular than the G37 even among people who can afford the most up-scale model.

I don't see a problem with offering a lower powered offering of this car especially since it's already produced and offered in other markets. What's the problem again?

I think it was actually a wise move for Inifiniti as just about all of it's competition offers a lower powered base model. Certainly nothing wrong with expanding the drivetrain lineup but I really hope this 2.5L is as or is more refined than the slick as butter VQ30.

Another thing, I saw someone mentioned direct injection, what is it with people and direct injection? A few people here act like it's from heaven and offers SUBSTANTIAL gains in fuel efficiency vs a non Di engine. It's certainly justifiable on a turbo/supercharged engine as it's good for knock reduction and fuel efficiency but I really don't see the reason for its implementation on a normally aspirated engine as the cost vs gain ratio is WAAAAAAAY off.

Ford's reason for no DI on N/A 5.0L V8 and 3.7L V6 engines:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1041590_why-new-ford-v-6-and-v-8-engines-dont-have-direct-injection

I agree w/everyone who says that the lesser-powered cars make less sense (V-6 family cars usually are quicker), but at the same time, Infiniti's losing out on a LOT of sales & profit by not having a smaller engine option.

EVERYBODY has a smaller engine: M-B C300, BMW 328i, Lexus IS250, Audi A4 2.0T, Acura TSX, Saab 9-3, Volvo S40/S60, Cadillac CTS. 1487, the fact that the Caddy makes more power than all of its competitors really is moot from a business standpoint: the top-level models are the ones marketed most heavily, and the CTS is the largest & heaviest of this group, so the others' performance isn't substantially worse.

The little engines not only give a lower entry price point, but they also allow manufacturers to differentiate the upper-level models with additional standard equipment and higher pricepoints. Therefore, the G25 gives Infiniti an effective bottom-feeder competitor, lowers the entry point into the Infiniti brand (nevermind the G range) and allows for a higher MSRP for the G37 - a double win thanks to additional incremental sales from the new model and additional per-unit profit from the high-end model. With effective pricing (don't underestimate how important this is), Infiniti makes more money.

It's a smart business move. Period.

Sales for the IS250 is brisk due to the fact that:
1. Most IS250 buyers & drivers are female and they don't give a hoot on what's under the hood. Even if there are male buyers of IS250s, they are most likely effeminate.

2. It's a Lexus--it has equal, if not more, luxury brand recognition with, say MB, BMW than Infiniti. Infiniti is not mentioned under the same breath as MB, BMW & Lexus.

icecube:

"Maybe you need to drive a Lotus one day to get the best explanation as to why HP doesn't matter as much on the track. In fact why HP doesn't mean "Sport", otherwise all of these big brash flagship cars would be Sports cars."

Power to weight ratios do matter. A G25 has nothing in common with a Lotus. The G20 was a failure so I have no idea why you would bring that up as an example of what Infiniti stands for. That car was NEVER a legit competitor for the 3 series or any other RWD car from Europe. Give me a break.

bdc:

Do you understand that Infiniti largely competes because it offers more content and power for your dollar? A weak engined G25 erodes that equation and makes little sense. The G37 sells because it offers 330hp and good handling and more space than a comparably priced 328. I dont know who told you the G37 is priced to compete with the 335i but that isnt the case. The 335 starts at $41k which is thousands more than a base G37. Why would anyone chose to by a 205hp G37 over a 230hp 328i which is only slightly more money?

"Bottom line: some people (women, mature people) just want a nice comfy upscale cruiser and Infiniti is just trying to get a piece of that pie. "

this is an Infiniti, not a Cadillac DTS or Lexus or Lacrosse. Infiniti is supposedly a performance oriented luxury brand. I agree that this anemic engine would be adequate for daily driving in a Camry or Accord. Not in this type of car. It's not even about drag racing, its about having ample passing power. I dont see the point in a severely decontented luxury car that will be far slower than a fully loaded Altima or Maxima that can be had for similar cash. If Infiniti decontents the G and gives it a weak engine basically it becomes a RWD Nissan. You are right that folks who buy for the badge will buy ANYTHING as long as it has the right logo on the grille. If you are a luxury poser who would rather have an "infiniti" with vinyl manually operated seats and a 6 speaker stereo than a fully optioned out "lesser" car this is for you.

wonkc:

This car may make sense in Europe. Doesn't mean it makes sense here. I don't get out of the country as much as you do but I do know that European cars tend to have less hp and diesels are far more popular. It makes sense because gas is $6/gal there- its not here which is one reason why you dont see many 204hp V6s on the market. I do like how folks are acting as if the IS is the ONLY other car out there. Yes the IS has a weak V6 but its the EXCEPTION, not the rule. For $35k the TL offers 280hp and the CTS offers 270hp.

roar2:

CTS ads really dont get into hp much so I dont think they are marketing one engine vs the other. In addition, I never said that the CTS was faster because it has more hp. We are all aware that the car is heavier than most in this class. That said, the base car will certainly be faster than a G25 with 205hp. I'm also unsure where this evidence exists that proves the G is losing sales due to lack of a lower engine. Before 2010 the base engine in the CTS was 3.6L and the mileage was WORSE than that of the DI engine. Even now, the 3l matches the 3.6L in mileage. The TL offers 2 engines but the base engine makes 280hp. The 3 and C offer multiple engines and they do outsell the G but the 3 series is available in so many formats that its bound to outsell everyone. The IS is NOT a sales leader in this class. The 3, C and CTS routinely outsell that car- at least when Lexus isnt offering cut rate leases.

I do agree that this will allow them to jack up the price of the G37 with no justification but they do that at their peril. The TL has not done well with its new pricing structure which has made it closer to the Germans in value. 5 years ago a TL with Nav was $35k and now its in the $38k-$39k range and a loaded TL is over $43k.

You know what, I change my opinion. I've been reading up on the upcoming 2011 Hyundai Sonata which is supposedly going to only be fitted with their new 2.4L 4-cylinder Theta engine, slated to make 200 hp and 186 pound-feet of torque. That's right, a Hyundai car would have performance rivaling an 'entry-level' Infiniti G Series sedan. Infiniti, scrap the G25!!!!! Don't water down your image to cater to people who nothing about driving dynamics!!!!!

The less than 200 hp 325 (e90 and e46) sold well in spite of the fact they're not barnstormers. The A4 and IS250 sell in droves with a 2.0T and 2.5 V6. There's no logical reason the G25 with a price around 30k-31k will have trouble selling.

Right now people opt for the 328i about 10 to 1 v. the 335i. Obviously HP does not drive the buying decision with the 3 series. If infiniti gets 50-70k sales a year at about the same price as the 328 but with 300+HP then it seems likely an Infiniti with 4-5k savings will only increase sales probably stealing more from BMW, Audi, MB and even Acura's TL/TSX.

tenta, you are referring to yourself, correct? If you think a front-nosed weigfht biased Hyundai is better because it has the same power you know very little about driving. The straightline performance might rival the G25 but in the corners the G25 will disappear. Any tool can press a gas pedal down. It takes some driving skill to transition weight and hit the line for correct cornering. The Hyundai will not be able to do what a G or 3 series can do in a series of corners.

um...blueguydotcom?

2010 is not the time for American-bound, V6-engined sedans that can't even produce 200 lb-fts of torque. That was the mid 1990s. No if's, and's, or but's about it. The G25 is a waste. The G Series legacy was significantly resurrected in 2003 with the V35 chassis and it's VQ35DE engine. That engine had been well known for its performance. Infiniti is taking a major step backward by shoehorning a tiny, screamer 2.5-liter V6 into it's best-selling chassis.

And if you say that it takes 'driving skill' to transition weight and all that jazz, what's to stop a determined driver in a 2011 Sonata from smoking some joker in his G25?

1487

"The G20 was a failure so I have no idea why you would bring that up as an example of what Infiniti stands for. That car was NEVER a legit competitor for the 3 series or any other RWD car from Europe. Give me a break."

You obviously have never driven an older G20 in comparison to a 318i of its time. The reason why Infinti was failing was due to terrible marketing. Everyone knows the Q45 was the best flagship of its time yet it failed. They were peppy and handled nicely with the SR20DE engine. The 2nd generation gained weight and didn't upgrade the power adequately, hence the death of it. Not to mention, the G20 has bulletproof reliability.

Either way, the G is supposed to be "educated in Europe" meaning it didn't need intense power to be sporty. Lotuses do not need intense power to be sporty. The G25 will not need intense power to be sporty.

And you still don't realize that a G37 is cheaper and performs much better than a regular CTS.

As for the is250 arguments, I see MANY of them here in Texas, not AWD since it only snows once every few years. Women just buy cars for their names. If you know Persians/Arabs, you'll find that out extremely soon that they're all terribly educated when it comes to cars just thinking that a BMW can smoke anything. My Xterra outpaces them with ease.

Again as I said, this is for on the fence buyers of fully loaded Accords, Altimas, Maximas, Avalons, Camries, etc. They can pay the same amount for an Infiniti Luxury Marque, they don't care about track performance so long as it has leather, wood, and a luxury analog clock.

As for driving skills, a determined G25 driver vs a determined Sonata driver would result in the G driver's win.

Mercedes sold C250 (C230) and C250(C230) 4-matic in Canada since 2008 and it's equipped 2.5L V6 with 201 hp and 180lb-ft of torque. and guess what, the msrp is lower than IS250 AWD. and i see way more C230/C250 than the IS250/IS250 AWD... infiniti is definitely lagging behind...

For those who need turbo, just add it in the aftermarket. Since there are many G35 and 37 having turbo already, developing the turbo kit for 25 is a very easy task

icecubefosho says:

"As for driving skills, a determined G25 driver vs a determined Sonata driver would result in the G driver's win."

Assuming that both drivers would want to street race in the first place; which hopefully they'll have enough sense not to.

Quick work parking lot poll:
IS250 = 3
IS350 = 0
G35/37 = 1

Buyers of IS250s? 2 mid-20's females, 1 mid-30s female
G37 = mid-30s male.

A G25 makes perfect sense; already made, cheaper entry point into a luxury vehicle that people can buy soon out of college, improved MPG.

I don't have a single female friend that gives a rats ass about HP. What's the point in having 300+ hp if you only use 100?

The G25 will come in significantly cheaper, have better gas mileage, and still give the targeted buyer exactly what they want, an entry level sport-luxury car.

@mrryte - some of us do track our cars. The buyer of a Sonata is not interested in handling, road holding, driving a line, etc.

The G25 buyer, like a 328i buyer MAY be a person who cares little for HP or wants a brand or the buyer may be a person who values handling with a 4 door sedan.

After owning a 335i I'd take a 328i over it in a heartbeat. The 335i only has weight on the 328i but otherwise it's handling isn't any better and for my tastes on a tight bit of roadway the 328i's lighter weigh makes it feel sublime. I won't even consider a G37 as it's simply not a fun car to drive.

As an owner of a G8 GT, I was obviously looking to purchase a car with the most HP and performance I can afford. I drove off the lot paying $31,500. The G25 does make a lot of sense because the price point will definitely undercut a 328i by about 3-4k and most buyers could careless about HP, torque, sport tuned suspensions, etc. And besides the G sedan is a much better looking car than the 3 series. But I would prefer a 328i over a G25, IS250, Caddy, Acura anyday. It would have been very interesting if Infiniti would have used the turbo to exceed the 328i numbers!

If it gets 15-20% better overall fuel economy and costs $4,000 less, it may work out well for Infiniti, especially if gas prices rise and the economy stays weak. If interest rates rise then saving even a few thousand on a new car will matter a lot more to payment buyers.

1487,

I don't think Infiniti is necessarily benchmarking the IS250. There is simply a huge market gain to be had by offering a car with two different engines. Sure, the argument could be made that 210 hp isn't enough for the segment. That's why there's a 330hp G37. It's quite simple, really....those who want power and are willing to pay extra for it will pony up the extra cash for a G37. For the majority of individuals looking to enter into the luxury sedan class, money is definitely a concern. The G handles well, is built well, and looks good, so for most buyers, a smaller V6 won't be a concern. They'll be thankful for a lower cost option.

This is why GM smartly offered a V6 Camaro. The V6 Mustang outsold its GT counterpart by a ratio of 2 to 1 despite a very old, crude, outdated and unerpowered engine that didn't get much better mileage than the 4.6 in the GT (I believe its output was equal to the 210 hp in the G25 here). Why? BECAUSE IT'S STILL A MUSTANG. If you want the data on this (since I know you'll ask), I'll be happy to deliver it to you.

Most cars sold in America are 4cylinder models. You see a ton more base or middle of the road model, 4cylinder powered cars on the road than you do their more expensive, bigger-engined counterparts. I've only seen a few V8 Buick Lucerne's on the road, but I see base model, underpowered V6 Lucernes and LaCrosses all over the place. Same goes for pretty much any car.

These are not excuses, my friend. Studying the market and knowing how to put together a car that sell well and broaden the appeal of the growing G lineup is a smart move. Infiniti doesn't need excuses.

^should be "will" sell well

"Again as I said, this is for on the fence buyers of fully loaded Accords, Altimas, Maximas, Avalons, Camries, etc. They can pay the same amount for an Infiniti Luxury Marque, they don't care about track performance so long as it has leather, wood, and a luxury analog clock."

My thoughts exactly. As long as they can tell their friends and family that they just bought an Infiniti, they won't give a rat's a** what's under the hood. And neither will anyone else as long as it is luxurious.

The 2.5 will be fine. I have a 2.5 straight six in my E46 325i, and believe me, I do not lack for power. Who are all you people who have to have a car that makes at least 280-300 hp? The G25 will be a fine car, and I suspect that although it will sell well to the ladies, if it is offered with a manual and a "sport" package, it will be a very engaging drive.
Jeez, some people really make me wonder with their assertions about this car's "competition," as if a new-generation Sonata will keep up with a G25. Different cars, different missions. My sport-package Bimmer is, as blueguydotcom described the 328i, "sublime" on a backroad. I am going go out on a limb and assume that most Sonata buyers do not have the training I have, and I will go further out on that limb and say no new Sonata can keep up with my "old" 325i on a twisty road. It would be much the same case for the Sonata versus the G25.
This is a good move by Infiniti.

I think the idea of a 220hp G25 is a great idea for Infiniti. Many people like the G37 looks, quality, interior luxury/refinement and warranty but don't need or want over 300hp. I have an Infiniti QX4 and have owned it for over 7 years without once needing an unscheduled repair or maint which is pretty amazing to me as it is the first car of over 35 I've owned to be like that. Color me lucky maybe but that is some record in my book. I love what I mentioned above but I do wish it got better mpg. So I think being able to get into a luxury car like the G25 with decent hp/torgue for everyday driving and get decent mpg would be great. If they can put in the 2.5L and tweak it just a little bit to come in at about 4k less than the 3.7L it would interest me greatly. Similar to the TSX 4cyl vs. the TSX 6cyl or the IS250 vs. IS350 pricing. I see a lot of Acura TSX 4cyl on the road and IMO this G25 would blow it away valuewise if you could get say 21city/29hwy with it at about the same price as a TSX.

This does make a lot more sense than the turbo rumor. I have a 2008 G35xS and previously owned a 2004 TSX, so I see the value of a 200-210hp G...The weight balance will be near 50/50 and it'll still have the vault like G chassis. The positioning will definitelty work against everything from V6 Accord (as mentioned above) to the 328, IS and even the C300 from MB. If Infiniti can get this in the $28K base to $33K loaded range, they'll have a winner for sure...they'll even grab some Hyundai Genesis (both sedan and loaded coupe) business...I love small, silky smooth V6s...I had a 2.5L V6 Mazda Millenia (circa 1996) and that engine, while certainly no powerhouse, was sewing machine smooth.

1487
"If Infiniti decontents the G and gives it a weak engine basically it becomes a RWD Nissan. You are right that folks who buy for the badge will buy ANYTHING as long as it has the right logo on the grille. If you are a luxury poser who would rather have an "infiniti" with vinyl manually operated seats and a 6 speaker stereo than a fully optioned out "lesser" car this is for you."

I follow your logic, but I seem to draw the opposite conclusion as you do. A low priced, de-contented version of a G-sedan would seem like a pretty good buy in my book for people who are entering the luxury-segment, but don't necessarily have the means or desire to get the better model. I don't think its "poser" to buy the low-end model, and I certainly don't think that a G25 will be a stripped out G37. If it can be priced competitively with a 4-cylinder TSX, offering similar features with sportier handling and a bit more torque, I don't see why this wouldn't make sense in NA market.

Your whole argument seems to center around perserving a brand image for Infiniti, which is to offer high-performance luxury for less than its competitors. The idea for the G25 is to expand its appeal beyond what the existing models have done. That might dilute the brand a bit and nobody knows whether it will be better or worse in the long-run, but I'm guessing that someone at Infiniti has the market research data to support the release of the model. The only real major downside I see is that it will probably cannibalize Maxima sales, but that's not a particularly great car anyway.

1487
Who even said they had to decontent the G37 to come up with the G25? If Acura would have came out with the 6cyl TSX first and then added the 4cyl would we be hearing the same argument. The two are pretty much the same car except for the engine size. Don't see why Infiniti can't do the same. Is the IS250 a decontented IS350 except for the engine size??? Are people that buy the BMW328 posers???

I for one am willing to put my money where my mouth is. I've driven a G37X (automatic & AWD) and besides being blown away by the power was extremely impressed with the way the G handled. It felt like it was pivoting on an axis. My personal G would be equipped with a 6 speed manual transmission & the Sport Suspension.

If they come out with a G25S w/ 6-speed stick, I'll seriously consider trading in our 2010 Acura TSX which I love and had planned to keep for 10 years.

"If Infiniti decontents the G and gives it a weak engine basically it becomes a RWD Nissan. You are right that folks who buy for the badge will buy ANYTHING as long as it has the right logo on the grille. If you are a luxury poser who would rather have an "infiniti" with vinyl manually operated seats and a 6 speaker stereo than a fully optioned out "lesser" car this is for you."

Personally I'd rather have vinyl manually operated seats (our '07 X3 has BMW's leatherette - read: vinyl). Just give me a dymanic chassis, RWD, & a 6-speed manual transmission. The rest is gravy.

I drove a G37X (AWD w/ Automatic) & was so impressed with the abundance of power, but even more I was simply blown away by the way the car seemed to rotate on a axis when turning. And this wasn't even a RWD S model with the sports suspension.

I'd seriously consider buying a G25S w/ RWD & 6 speed stick to replace my 2010 Acura TSX which I love if it comes in at the same price point with similar fuel economy #s.

Clearly readers of this post have forgotten about 2008's $5 per gallon gasoline and that CAFE's 2012 requirement for combined passenger car fuel economy is rising to 32 mpg from the current 27.
That translates to a 17% fuel economy increase fleetwise for all passenger cars in 1 more model year.

For cars to be ready for sale for the 2012 model year designs have to be in now.

While the 2012 replacement for the E90 3 series is not likely to get get a lighter chassis and body
BMW has emphasized it will be re-introducing smaller displacement inline 6 s and 4 cylinder back into the US lineup by 2015. These engines already see service in the rest of the world.

Lower engine displacement is the only way to dramatically improve fuel economy on the cheap in gasoline powered IC engines.

BMW's N52 series 2.5 inline-6 marketed in Canada under the 323 moniker offers 200 bhp and 180 lb ft (the latter at a lofty 4000 rpm). That tips the power scale in favor of the Nissan 2.5 V6 ratings.

For those who cannot trust Japanese or UK fuel economy ratings can you at least trust the government of our neighbors to the north? The Canadian EPA rate the BMW 323 at 23/ 34 city/hwy. That kind of fuel economy in an Infiniti with a 6 cylinder engine would be a 35% improvement over current G37 fuel economy. It would be a huge improvement with minimal investment to Nissan.

BMW has proven time and time again the insignificance of high HP engines as compared to driving dynamics, balance, and a synergistic (sum greater than parts) approach. Of course BMW's M series puts our serious HP but that is not what keeps them successful. As further proof, look how many high HP American cars have faltered (Impala SS, G-8, GTO, Past Camaros).
What I miss is cars that you need to drive hard, row the gears to extract maximum performance, well balanced and light weight, cars that are more fun in the curves than having straight line bragging rights, cars that are basically fun to drive. You see this in motorcycles where riders choose large displacement engines that lumber in anything but straight line performance (a good rider on a 600cc will dust anyone through the twisties). I have a smaller displacement bike that is untouchable on a 12 mile mountain pass-with a 35mph speed limit that I commonly triple; and the most important thing is that I have a smile on my face the entire ride. Large engines can shift the balance of a car making them feel lumbering as well.
I think that this engine gives enough power, hits a sweeter price point, and will give better fuel efficiency for CAFE standards. Why a V-6 over a 2.0T? Firstly, Audi proves that you don't need a big displacement engine for good performance but, for all of the 2.0T's strengths it does have 1 inherent weakness in its rough idle and not-so great sounding engine; this 2.5L V-6 would offer a smoother power delivery than the 2.0T. I am looking forward to at least testing this vehicle. Does anyone know if this will be offered in AWD?

The name of the game is fuel efficiency. The days when all that mattered are HP & acceleration are gone. You can already see that Infiniti has reacted to this changed market. Seven speed automatics have increased EPA highway fuel efficiency by lowering RPM. The object is higher fuel efficiency while preserving the sporty nature of these cars. I think the relatively poor fuel efficiency of Infinitis has been hurting sales. Another round of $4-$5/gallon gasoline would do a lot more damage to sales. So, it is just plain smart to introduce the G25. Those who complain about image, etc., will be nowhere to be found as far as sales are concerned when gas prices run up again.

I think this is a great move by Infiniti, the present G37 is horrible when it comes to gas usuage, I am looking to buy a new car in November and was thinking that I did not want to invest in the present Infiniti G37 because of its' poor MPG usuage. Now with this news, I have the option of choosing between the G25 and the restyled Lexus IS that is rumoured to be in production.
To comment on the reason why the Lexus IS sells relatively well, I think it is because it is a sharp looking car and it is good on gas, its' AWD is better on gas than the Infiniti G37 without the AWD. The only real issue with the Lexus is its' lack of backseat room, which I hope Lexus corrects with the remodelled version.