While everyone knows that the powertrain and chassis of the Toyota FT-86 show car was built by Subaru, there's been no official word about who did what during the collaboration And other than various rumors, there hasn't been much about what Subaru has planned for this cool setup.
We poked around some more and here's the latest. For starters, there will be a Subaru variant of this car coming sometime in 2011. It will share the Toyota version's naturally aspirated 2.0-liter flat-4, but we hear that output will be raised to about 250 horsepower.
The reason for the Subie's extra power? To make up for the extra weight of its all-wheel drive system of course. Both cars will have a 6-speed manual gearbox.
Subaru's car will be slightly larger than the Toyota thanks to a stretched platform. Because of its larger size, extra power and all wheel drive, expect the Subaru to come in around $30,000, about $5000 more than the Toyota. This keeps the two coupes from directly competing with each other, not to mention keeping the Subaru coupe off its Impreza WRX brothers.
While the performance numbers may overlap, the fact that the Impreza WRX is a 4- and 5-door, and that it's powered by a turbocharged engine, should prevent any cannibalization in the marketplace. At least that's what Subaru is hoping.
-- Mak Tokuyama, reporting from Japan
dwhamman says:
03:06 PM, 11/17/09
250hp out of a non-turbo 2.0 liter seems like a bit much. I would have thought it would come with either a 2.0 turbo or a NA 2.5 liter.
jederino says:
04:24 PM, 11/17/09
^^Agree. It would have to be a larger motor, or Subaru has just designed the biggest breakthrough NA 4-cylinder of our generation.
acbayard says:
04:43 PM, 11/17/09
It is simply not possible to produce 250hp from 2.0 liters without forced induction.
efinils2 says:
05:54 PM, 11/17/09
"It is simply not possible to produce 250hp from 2.0 liters without forced induction."
Not necessarily impossible, the F20C 2 liter 4-banger in the Japan-spec S2000 was rated at 247bhp; however, the compromise being the lack of torque.
Also, there is NO WAY Subaru can make a face that good looking, you know they are going to mess it up somehow!
rsholland says:
06:20 PM, 11/17/09
Also, the 2.0L S2000, with mega hp, debuted 10 years ago—and without direct injection. So it's certainly possible to do a 2.0L non-turbo using state-of-the-art technology.
rsholland says:
06:26 PM, 11/17/09
Oops...
"So it's certainly possible to do a 250 hp, 2.0L non-turbo using state-of-the-art technology."
Dang! Please bring back the "edit" feature!
acbayard says:
07:16 PM, 11/17/09
But we're talking about the 2.0 boxer? Honestly I still think the 2.0 L engine cannot produce 250hp without forced induction.
The S2000's engine during the later years, when complying with modern emission requirements, put out what? 235hp in the United States? If Honda's high revving engines couldn't produce 250, I really don't see how Subaru's 2.0 boxer is going to do it.
It is just not possible.
greenpony says:
08:08 PM, 11/17/09
"It is just not possible."
Not probable, maybe. But I'll call bullshit on not possible. A 2.0L engine puts out, what, 150 ft-lb? That baby would have to wail at least to 9000 rpm to produce that sort of power. Doable, yes, but with some serious engine mods. But not possible? Whatever.
acbayard says:
08:32 PM, 11/17/09
Well... the current 2.5 EJ255 puts out 261hp tops, despite being turbocharged. Considering that even top motorcycle boxer engines only rev up to ~8500rpm; please let me know when it becomes possible.
inlinesix says:
12:22 AM, 11/18/09
If they don't boost it, they could probably coax some more out of the boxer motor. An S2000 with some simple bolt-ons (header, exhaust, AEM V2) gets to 210hp to the wheels.
For a car as small as the Ft86 even 240hp is going to be fun.
I vote Subaru could get 240-245 out of a small boxer, but it seems unlike Subaru to work with a 2.0L. Why not just go for a slightly larger displacement than Toyota's 2.0 to bump up power and differentiate their car from Toyota's?
efinils2 says:
02:15 AM, 11/18/09
inlinesix,
Subaru has plenty of experience working with the 2.0L, since that's what they use for their Impreza and STI lineup here in Japan.
I agree with you in that 250HP is very much doable in a 4-cylinder, the 3S-GE in my decade-old Altezza RS200 pushes 210 HP, and that engine has been around for a while! I'm sure if they use DI, Subaru can pull it off.
e90_m3 says:
05:39 AM, 11/18/09
The car looks like it will weigh in at about 3200-3500lbs.
With only 250bhp, no thank you. I'll take a WRX or STI any day of the week.
jederino says:
09:41 AM, 11/18/09
Efinils,
The RS200 sounds like an entertaining car. Where did you pick it up?
inlinesix says:
12:19 PM, 11/18/09
Efinils,
I'd love an RS200. I had a 3.0L IS300 with a turbo but would have enjoyed driving the 2.0 just as much. When I lived in Japan I saw some very well executed cars that I wish we had in the U.S. What I was saying about Subaru stateside, is that they seem to lean more towards the 2.5. Maybe its based on crash standards and added weight or something else?
I'm still betting this car will be good. I'll go for RWD though. The 08 WRX should weigh in at a bit more than this one, and it was 3100-3200 lbs.
smrtypants44 says:
02:51 PM, 11/18/09
I thought that the subaru version was going to be JDM only?
efinils2 says:
03:18 PM, 11/18/09
jederino,
The RS200 is quite entertaining, specially since it only weighs around 2900! I picked it up at a local dealership...I live in Okinawa, so you can snatch one for around $5K with less than 60K miles! There is a website that can give you an idea of what's available, http://www.goo-net.com/english/ ...just take 2 zeroes off and that about the equivalent in dollars.
inlinesix,
Ironically, they have a lower rated I-6 in the Altezza as well, but the I-4 is the higher spec one! And you are right, some of the cars here baffle me as to why they didn't take them to the States, especially the Toyota Chasers and Marks.
I believe I read somewhere that Subaru opts for the 2.5 in the States because of the Torque, whereas the Japanese are more keen to high-revs. All in all, this car would be a Turbo away from being a WRX coupe you know?
inlinesix says:
12:23 AM, 11/19/09
Efinils2:
WRX coupe is right.
There were a lot of Chasers up around Yokosuka that looked good. I'd jump on a S15 Silvia if they were brought over.
orbit09 says:
01:37 PM, 12/22/09
I had to chime in here about just what 2.0 ltr 4cyl engines are capable of. I own a 2006 Civic Si with a K20Z3 engine making over 200WHP and there are many other people in the "tuner" community putting well over 240 to the wheel in the same car with simple add-ons like intake, exhaust, cams and tuning. Torque is low and the rev limit high but there's still a lot of innovation taking place. I have no doubt that if a bunch of performance minded independant companies can do it then a major manufacturer can as well.