IL Track Tested: 2010 Lincoln MKS EcoBoost

Seems like a pointless exercise in excess. Too much weight, too many electronic nannies, too many drive axles, too much complexity, and too much money for what you get, that even 355 horsepower can't overcome. Even if the car had too much horsepower, it still couldn't mask the inherent drawbacks to excess weight. How about getting back to basics and reducing the poundage?

This vehicle is a truly hideous exercise in badge engineering. I think the Ecoboost Flex is more interesting offering BUT even it is overpriced.

That's CTS-V money.

"How about getting back to basics and reducing the poundage?"

Because it's a luxury car.

Decently quick car but the atrocious brakes are unacceptable... all this for $56K?? Holy crap that's expensive for a Lincoln. Plus those tires suck and the 4500 lb weight is *whoa*. WTF Ford?

I don't know why anyone would want one of these

Lincoln in broken. Ford should scrap it and start from the drawing board.

All things considered, the performance and braking of the MKS is more than adequate for street use. Four consecutive maximum effort stops from high speed just isn't realistic. The people buying Lincolns are not going to be taking them to any open track days or autocross events. But with that said, Ford seems to have marketed this as something of a performance luxury sedan, and in that respect its disappointing that it doesn't measure up to its similarly priced competition.

The weight isn't so much an issue for me, its a luxury sedan afterall and all those luxury items aren't light, but it is possible to mask that weight with a more aggressively designed suspension and at least some brakes that will hold up to an auto rag's track day beatdowns. That just didn't seem to be too high of a priority for the Lincoln engineers.

Why is the MKS's performance envelope so limited?
For less money, the Audi A6 3.0T AWD has better performance, even with less hp.
The Audi S6 would blow the Lincoln away, even as the S6 weighs 4500 lb.

When did Lincoln hold itself in such high regard, to price itself higher than a competing Audi A6 with superior performance...

Lincoln MKS EcoBoost AWD ...4??? lb
Lincoln MKS 3.7 AWD ........4276 lb
Cadillac STS 4.6 AWD .......4221 lb
Audi A6 4.2 AWD ............4211 lb
Infiniti M45x AWD ..........4176 lb
MB E550 AWD ................4145 lb
Acura TL SH-AWD ............3975 lb
Lexus GS350 AWD ............3969 lb
BMW 535i xDrive ............3946 lb

The competitor's weights aren't that far off...
But how can one resist the Audi...

billt9, it also has to do with content and luxury features; its not exclusively about performance. Now, I'm not too terribly familiar with how the MKS stacks up in that regard, so I can't say if its better or worse than the competition, but its something to consider nevertheless. I'm just too lazy right now to look up the specs.

Not everybody out there is looking for a corner-carving performance machine either. There's a lot of old fogies, looking to spend their children's inheritance, who don't give a rip about 0-60 times, skidpag numbers, or slalom speeds. That seems to be the demographic that Lincoln is best suited for. Their snazzy commercials seem to show that Lincoln thinks otherwise, but so far they have yet to back up any real performance claims, although I don't think a 5.7 sec 0-60 is necessarily slow.

If you think that lincoln is about performance than some of you people really are confused. Believe it or not, people do buy "luxury sedans" without sport stuck in between the two words!

"If you think that lincoln is about performance than some of you people really are confused. Believe it or not, people do buy "luxury sedans" without sport stuck in between the two words!"

"Sport" and "competence" are two different things. Those brakes are unacceptable on a modern car and are deserving of a 'poor' rating.

Ford's platforms work wonders when priced correctly but they can't be asked to underpin $56,000 cars, particularly ones that probably could use some help anyway...Lincoln needs to be much more bespoke in its engineering to justify these prices.

"This vehicle is a truly hideous exercise in badge engineering. I think the Ecoboost Flex is more interesting offering BUT even it is overpriced."

Apparently you haven't the slightest clue as to what badge engineering is. Also how is a Flex overpriced?

Anyhow I have no clue why Edmunds would take a car such as this one to the track. An everyday driving exercise would have more than served its purpose. No one, I mean no one is going to take a large vehicle such as this one to the track regardless of brand.

It seems to me that Ford needs to ditch the EPS rack, re-sort the suspension tuning and fit it with more aggressive brakes (in fact the SHO Track Package should be standard fare here). For the price premium that this commands over the Taurus, there should have been usage of weight saving materials (i.e. aluminum) to cut down on mass.

"That's CTS-V money."

Umm what CTS-V do you know of that costs under 60K. The starting price on that vehicle is somewhere around 63K.

Even if the CTS was priced around 56K, so are the following vehicle:

Acura RL
Audi A6 3.0T
BMW 335i
BMW 535i
M-B 350
Infiniti M45

And let's be honest, if overall performance is your interest you aren't going to pick any of the above cars listed over a CTS-V ..... so that argument is moot.

Wow, this car's combination of price and performance is further proof of how Lincoln's irrelevancy in the automotive market, sort of like Acura and Buick -at home, not China-. I would take the CTS DI any day of the week over this overpriced, overweight excuse of a luxury car.

"Anyhow I have no clue why Edmunds would take a car such as this one to the track."

Absolutely fair to do so, since Lincoln's marketing has tried very hard to paint their new lineup as sporty, check their site and you will see.

Sounds like a smart handling car for a Lincoln...not to be mistaken for a BMW wannabe. Lucky for Lincoln, not everybody wants to drive something so sporting. Sounds like this car would be good for those looking for a bit more comfort over sport. Now, FIX THOSE DAMN BRAKES!

"Total damage? $56,625. That easily puts it in the price territory of the Mercedes-Benz E550 and Jaguar XF. "

Someone tell these guys that you cannot get an E550 comparably equipped for anywhere near $56k. The car costs a lot because it has 355hp and lots of features. Name one German sedan that is withint $5k of this with similar levels of equipment. The A6 3.0T starts at $51k or so and costs more than this fully loaded. That car is considerably smaller as well.

R&T got 0-60 in 5 secs flat which seems about right. Most tests of the SHO have shown 0-60 in 5.2 secs so I don't know how this car could be 5.8 secs.

"I would take the CTS DI any day of the week over this overpriced, overweight excuse of a luxury car. "

Overpriced compared to what? Did you watch the 6vs8 video? This isn't a sports sedan but its got respectable performance and class appropriate features.

Perhaps folks should do 5 minutes of research before commenting on the MKS. As a luxury car its certainly on par with others in the $50k range.

"Sport" and "competence" are two different things. Those brakes are unacceptable on a modern car and are deserving of a 'poor' rating."

Are they worse than the brakes on the E550 coupe? C&D tested one and said the brakes gave distances that were so long that they assumed there was a malfunction. It hasn't stopped in less than 130ft in any test I've seen.

"That's CTS-V money."

The E550, 550, A6 4.2, XF 5.0, etc. all represent "CTS-V money". There are a number of cars with far less hp than the V that cost around $60k.

"Ford's platforms work wonders when priced correctly but they can't be asked to underpin $56,000 cars, particularly ones that probably could use some help anyway...Lincoln needs to be much more bespoke in its engineering to justify these prices."

This platform also supports the S80- in fact that is where it originaed. the S80 is hardly a cheap car- in fact it tops out near $60k.

Am I the only one that thinks this is an extremely attractive vehicle inside and out?
I havent felt the interior plastics, but overall I think it looks really good.
As for paying 56k, thats something that im not sure id be willing to do on this lincoln, no matter how good it looks.

Ford made the mistake of producing a market video where they put this car up against performance sedans (actually a magazine produced it, but Ford must have been involved). It gives people the justification they need to evaluate it as a performance sedan.

Lincoln, even the LS, has never truly targeted the performance sedan market. Most of their customers would HATE the ride and feel of a performance sedan. They want a living room on wheels.

I'm withholding judgment until I get a better look at one. I saw the MKS on a turntable at an autoshow a couple years back, but that doesn't really count. I'd like to actually drive one.

My dad has an S80 its like a tank. A huge wad of steel that give you the confidence that you'
ll live nomatter what happens to the car (its my dad's 2nd S80, first one slipped and rolled down a mountain). MKS is supposed to be more of a for highway overtaking. I think all old (>65) people should be driving tanklike machines with hardcore nanny's, and aren't that fast. My only beef with the MKS is the brakes. The MKS does deserve better brakes though (same for the E coupe). At least something that doesn't fade as easily, Old gramps have problems stopping with good brakes.

Also, Lincoln should think about adding an option that warns the driver that they are on the wrong side of the road.

konocar400h says:
"Am I the only one that thinks this is an extremely attractive vehicle inside and out?
I havent felt the interior plastics, but overall I think it looks really good."
Not at all. I think that this the nicest looking Lincoln ever made (please don't read too much into that). The styling inside and out is top-notch and I'd have no issue driving one. Don't need the EcoBoost or AWD. The 275 NA V6 and FWD will be more than enough for a comfy, long distance cruiser.

But there's just one thing-
"As for paying 56k, thats something that im not sure id be willing to do on this lincoln, no matter how good it looks." BINGO.
Given the aforementioned competition, Lincoln may have set up the MKS for failure. It won't be long before we see the MKS being offered with big rebates and discounts to improve sales.....

Honda and MB put subpar brakes any just about every model they produce (AMG models not included).

I am embarrased of this car. I want the American car companies to all be competitive but this thing is JUNK. ANY $56,000.00 luxury car should have EXCELLENT BRAKES.. Any of the German 3 (5 series, A6, E-class) as well as XF and even the $40k CTS have far better brakes that wont fade that that. Regardless if most people wont ever flog their Lincoln's like this, for the LUXURY price of $56,000.00 shoppers demand high quality components, including brakes. This is why people don't spend $56k on Lincoln's. ECOboost is great, and I love the Flex with it, but what consumer will choose this over a 535i, A6 3.0T, or E350/550??? NOONE !!!!!

So...it's putting down numbers that the Chrysler 300C was putting down back in 2004? And gets the same fuel mileage as a 2010 300C? With less power? And less torque? For $20,000 more?

And we're all supposed to be impressed?

I just went to the Lincoln website to look at prices. A non-ecoboost FWD starts at 40,000 and one with the Ultimate Package goes for about $46,000. Just like the Flex ecoboost, I dont see much use for the MKS ecoboost. Lincoln is not targeting BMW etc so why offer it? The MKS is what it is.....a handsome, well built, comfortable luxury sedan with (according to most car mags) the finest nav-function interface on the road.......(sync is the standard in car electronics) It needs better brakes for sure. So at $46,000 with almost every option you can get it is a good buy for what it is. At $56,000 it is competing in a market that it really cant compete in. EXCEPT it is probably better built and more reliable than the euro competition (CR strikes again)

"Are they worse than the brakes on the E550 coupe? C&D tested one and said the brakes gave distances that were so long that they assumed there was a malfunction. It hasn't stopped in less than 130ft in any test I've seen."

Yes, they are. MUCH worse. Here are Edmunds' comments on the E550's brakes:

"Medium to firm pedal effort with virtually no hum or vibration from ABS. Car stays very level -- no dive, especially in Sport mode. Very good fade resistance."

And here are Edmunds' comments on the MKS's brakes:

"Consistently "good" stopping distances up to four stops when the pedal began to go soft. Extreme fade set in after just 3 quarter-mile runs when the pedal went all the way to the floor and brakes began to vibrate and hum. I stopped running accel runs, because it felt unsafe to continue."

Notice a difference? I've been reading Edmunds.com for probably a good 6 years now and I've rarely seen them test a car with brakes that poor, much less on one that costs $56K. Stopping distance is but one factor in the braking system's performance. Heat tolerance is a huge factor as well.

Here's how Edmunds tests brakes (from their 'How We Test Cars and Trucks' article):

"Stops are performed about two minutes apart until we reach the point where the stopping distance begins to trend irrevocably longer. Some performance cars can make a dozen such stops with no degradation, while others show signs of stress after just three or four. To determine the point at which serious brake fade begins, we factor in the number of stops and the magnitude of any performance fall-off, and then take into account sensory cues like changing pedal feel and even the smell of the brakes. The stopping distance we publish comes from looking at the 60-0 and 30-0 slices of the data and selecting the shortest runs."

Has anyone thought of the Hyundai Genesis V8 as a competitor to the Lincoln MK...uh...whatever this is.

Price:
Lincoln--$56k
Hyundai-$41k

0-60:
Lincoln--5.7
Hyundai-5.9

Fuel Econ:
Lincoln--17-25
Hyundai-17-25

Not to mention the Hyundai is a physically smaller (by several inches) and lighter car (by 400lbs), yet has bigger dimensions on the inside compared to the Lincoln. Personally, this Lincoln doesn't persuade me to throw $15,000 its way to buy it over a Genesis. Sorry!

Altimadude, you're better off comparing the Taurus SHO to the Genesis. I'd go home with the Ford (for less money).

bimmerjay,
Once more I'm reminded of the time back in the mid-eighties when I heard a European automotive engineer say:

"The difference between European drivers and American drivers is that European drivers don't care if the brakes squeal, just as long as they stop the car. American drivers don't care if the brakes stop the car, just as long as they don't squeal."

That was certainly true at the time. My 1984 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe was good for exactly ONE(1) hard stop from 80 mph. On the second try the brakes would bleed off about 35 mph before the pedal dropped to the floor. Sad to say, I think that today's typical US driver is more than happy to trade off stopping ability in exchange for little to no brake dusting...

I'd just like to point out to everyone that this "slow" MKS ecoboost is faster than the new MazdaSpeed3 in both 0-60 and 1/4 mile times despite the fact that it weighs 1200 pounds more. Now sure, it may be a completely different class of vehicle, but I thought I'd put up something that showed it was quicker than what many consider to be a "fast" car.

Keep in mind that Lincoln was never trying to make a car that would beat a CTS-V. They DID make a car that beats the pants off a DTS.

Furthermore, to those that say $56,000 is outrageous for a Lincoln, they've been selling $60-65k Navigators for several years now and doing pretty well with it. Factor in rebates, incentives etc and you're probably getting close to $50k for one of these, even WITH the ecoboost.

That said, I work at a dealer that carries BMW, Mercedes, AND Lincoln. An E550 will cost you well over $60k, same for a 535i. If you want to compare a BMW or Mercedes with a comparably equipped Lincoln, you pay a LOT less for the navigation, heated and cooled seats (standard on all lincolns), rear view camera, leather seats (also standard on all lincolns), sunroof, etc. BMW and Mercedes make their money by charging a ton of money if you want leather, nav, etc. Lincoln is substandard (if the germans are the standard) in terms of performance, but for someone who wants a vehicle that will cater to them, the MKS is just about perfect. I don't sell them, but the features it offers for the money will be well worth it to anyone who doesn't just care about a badge or sports performance.

Yes, it would be a more straight-forward comparison with the Taurus SHO. But then I don't see the Taurus as a luxury car (however, others might). To me, it's a tricked out family sedan.

There are many aforementioned cars the Lincoln could be compared to; 300C, VW Passat CC, CTS, G8,

My point still stands. Lincoln hasn't persuaded me to buy this car over a [fill in the blank V6 or V8 luxury car].

So little for so much...

Good rubber, too. Pathetic.

chavis10:

Subpar brakes on non-AMG Mercedes... You must not own a Mercedes or read reviews.

Here are just a few numbers on the MKS and the 535i:

BMW 535i Automatic:
3,703 lbs
twin-turbo 3.0L
17 to 26 mpg
Starts @ $51,000
60-0 in 113ft

Lincoln MKS EcoBoost
17 to 25 mpg
twin turbo 3.5L
4,305 lbs (Genesis Sedan with 4.6L V8 weighs 4,006)
Starts @ $47,760
60-0 in 127

If I were looking for a $50k sedan I'd pass over the MKS. No bias concerning car brand. Even without reaching the "sport sedan" demographic I don't see this car "boosting" Lincoln's brand--sales or image.

brn:

SHO base price $37,170
Genesis 4.6L base price $37,250

Thats a lot of savings. Depending on added features I wouldn't say the cost is a selling point for the SHO compared to the Genesis sedan but thats just me.

Why the comparisons to the CTS-V? The CTS-V is much smaller than the MKS inside and out and is therefore in a different class. It's much closer to the MKZ in size.

"Not to mention the Hyundai is a physically smaller (by several inches) and lighter car (by 400lbs), yet has bigger dimensions on the inside compared to the Lincoln. Personally, this Lincoln doesn't persuade me to throw $15,000 its way to buy it over a Genesis. Sorry!"

Well why bother with the Genesis, when the SHO is cheaper and out performs it?

As I mentioned earlier this test was silly and unnecessary. Next Edmunds should start track testing full size pickups and subsequently complain that they don't go through the slalom like a sports car. Seriously, the tester should have revisited the original test and provided appropriate feedback.

"Personally, this Lincoln doesn't persuade me to throw $15,000 its way to buy it over a Genesis. Sorry!"

Yes, yes, and yes.

Give me a Genesis sedan over a SHO or this Lincoln.

Considering price, AWD, and perfomance,prestige, the easy choice is of course the Audi A6 3.0T.
Same price, more perfomance, more prestige, plenty of luxury n safety,thanks lincoln, I`ll pass.

@roadburner-

"Sad to say, I think that today's typical US driver is more than happy to trade off stopping ability in exchange for little to no brake dusting..."

Exactly. My 335i dusts its wheels like crazy but it can haul down hard from 130+ mph speeds multiple times without breaking a sweat. Ask me how I know.

@fadetoblackii-

"Keep in mind that Lincoln was never trying to make a car that would beat a CTS-V. They DID make a car that beats the pants off a DTS."

I don't think Lincoln was benchmarking the DTS, but if they did that's setting the bar pretty damn low. A lawnmower could out handle a DTS.

This is really too bad. The EcoBoost engine has a lot of potential, but since Ford won't put it into the new Focus, it'll still be under utilized. For once I actually like the styling of a Lincoln, but seriously, $56K for a Lincoln?? I don't care if your trying to compete with the Europeans, that's still way too much.

Quality and fit and finish look to be improving, but you've got to price the cars right to get the buyers. Sure, you'll get some showroom traffic, but as soon as someone looks at the window sticker, they'll be using their iPhone to find the closest BMW dealership and get a used 5 Series.

Regarding that "stunt" they did with Motor Trend, of course your TURBOCHARGED car is going to do well against normally aspirated V8's; turbo's produce more horsepower at higher elevation, while normally aspirated engines loose a significant amount. Try this again at Road Atlanta, and see what it "really" can do.

I'm not an "American Car" hater, but until Ford and GM get it through their heads that it's not just about mileage, or 60 day guarantees; but building cars who's bumpers don't flap from the wind going down the interstate and still charge what BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus and Toyota wan't.....you can't compete with them when you price yourself out of the market.

"So...it's putting down numbers that the Chrysler 300C was putting down back in 2004? And gets the same fuel mileage as a 2010 300C? With less power? And less torque? For $20,000 more?

And we're all supposed to be impressed?"

This car is in a higher bracket than the 300, They may be the same size, but thats where the similarities end. Sit in the MKS and the 300 and the difference will be clear.

"This is really too bad. The EcoBoost engine has a lot of potential, but since Ford won't put it into the new Focus, it'll still be under utilized. For once I actually like the styling of a Lincoln, but seriously, $56K for a Lincoln?? I don't care if your trying to compete with the Europeans, that's still way too much. "

The Navigator has costs more than $56k for many, many years. It probably was over that figure in the late 90s or early 2000s. Who told you Lincolns were cheap? They aren't and never have been. Before it was cancelled the LS was hitting close to $50k and it had way less power than this car plus it was RWD.

"Subpar brakes on non-AMG Mercedes... You must not own a Mercedes or read reviews.

Here are just a few numbers on the MKS and the 535i: "

Do you read? The 535i is NOT a Mercedes product. Numerous reviews of the E550 coupe have noted subpar braking and braking distances have been poor. Read C&Ds road test for reference. They wouldnt even print the braking distance because it seemed too long to be accurate. Quick to attack, but you can't take the time to get a handle on the facts.

"Give me a Genesis sedan over a SHO or this Lincoln. "

It cracks me up when people get mad at Lincoln for charging more than Ford for a similar product. Ever heard of the Acura MDX, Lexus ES350, Lexus RX350, Acura TL, etc? All are luxury versions of lower end vehicles sold by lower brands. A loaded ES350 costs $13k more than a loaded Camry but they are the same car underneath. Why is this OK for Lexus but bad for Lincoln? Its the way the car business works.

"Considering price, AWD, and perfomance,prestige, the easy choice is of course the Audi A6 3.0T.
Same price, more perfomance, more prestige, plenty of luxury n safety,thanks lincoln, I`ll pass."

This car lacks luxury and safety? Its at least as nice as the A6 3.0T.

"Why the comparisons to the CTS-V? The CTS-V is much smaller than the MKS inside and out and is therefore in a different class. It's much closer to the MKZ in size."

Ask these same people why they fail to mention that the E550, XF 5.0 and 550i cost the same as the CTS-V yet cant touch its performance. Some folks are incapable of actually comparing the value of domestic cars to foreign cars. When they see the MKS' pricetag they think "hey this costs as much as the superior CTS-V" without noting the same could be said about numerous overpriced European V8 saloons.

"Not to mention the Hyundai is a physically smaller (by several inches) and lighter car (by 400lbs), yet has bigger dimensions on the inside compared to the Lincoln. Personally, this Lincoln doesn't persuade me to throw $15,000 its way to buy it over a Genesis. Sorry!"

1. This is a loaded MKS, the Ecoboost model starts at $50k
2. The Lincoln has AWD, the Hyundai does not
3. The Lincoln has more features.
4. Hyundai isn't a luxury brand
5. The Lincoln is larger

"I'm not an "American Car" hater, but until Ford and GM get it through their heads that it's not just about mileage, or 60 day guarantees; but building cars who's bumpers don't flap from the wind going down the interstate and still charge what BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus and Toyota wan't.....you can't compete with them when you price yourself out of the market."

ALL of the Euro cars get beat in quality by Lincoln and the Far East cars......Cadillac and Mercedes are some of the worst in that respect...BMW and Audi not much better. So who's bumpers are flapping now?

"Regarding that "stunt" they did with Motor Trend, of course your TURBOCHARGED car is going to do well against normally aspirated V8's; turbo's produce more horsepower at higher elevation, while normally aspirated engines loose a significant amount. Try this again at Road Atlanta, and see what it "really" can do."

All of that was stated in the video. For the record, the MKS is faster than the XF at sea level. Other magazines have recorded 0-60 times that are consistent with the 550i and slightly slower than the E550. Let's not act like this car is slow when not at 10000ft.

1487--Your counter points and my answers.

1. This is a loaded MKS, the Ecoboost model starts at $50k.--Yes, and the Genesis V8 starts at $39k. Even if you step down to the V6 models of both, the Genesis still spanks it and it's still $10k less.

2. The Lincoln has AWD, the Hyundai does not.--The AWD of the Lincoln is for traction only, and it provides little help (0.3sec in 0-60 accelleration) in comparison to the "inferior" RWD of the Genesis.

3. The Lincoln has more features.--Ok, decontent the Lincoln down to the equipment of the Genesis (take away the self-parking gimmick, the laser snooze control, and the stupid dubs), and the Hyundai is still $10k less.

4. Hyundai isn't a luxury brand.--Ok, I concede that. But is Lincoln really a luxury brand anyway? How does it compare to the likes of Cadillac, Audi, Lexus, MB, BMW? I kind of think of it as Mid-luxury...like Acura and Infiniti. I mean, the MKS is just a Taurus SHO with a few bells and whistles on it.

5. The Lincoln is larger.--Yeah, I already said that. The Lincoln is larger on the outside and smaller on the inside than the Genesis.

Ok then. Scrap the Genesis comparison. Tell me why I should get this Lincoln over a VW Passat CC w/4motion or Ford Taurus SHO? They both are borderline luxury cars, both have AWD, both are a lot cheaper. By the way, you don't have to answer...it is a rhetorical question. Or rather, a question Lincoln dealers have to answer for their potential shoppers.

I just don't see many people dropping that much coin for a Lincoln MKS. I will bet that many/most people that are shopping for premium/luxury cars in the $50-60k bracket won't be cross shopping this car. Even if a similarly equipped MB, BMW, or Audi (among others) costs $5k more, people who shell out this amount of money for a sedan won't see that as a problem. These people many times are concerned more with brand image, dealer experience, etc. Many of them would'nt be caught dead in a Lincoln. Sales of these cars will be very very low.

1487:

Listen clown. If you dont understand people's comments just move on through. My 2 mercedes (SLK and C-class) have outstanding brakes. Check out the 60-0 on them and then comment. Saying many non AMG mercedes have subpar brakes would come from a lack of knowledge. The fact that you would continue to think they do is your choice. Quoting a single mercedes review from C&D does not back you up.

Do-you-get-it-now?

On to the next thing. The BMW 535i numbers were thrown in there for your enjoyment. Its a separate idea.

You are so slow.

audisport is dead-on.

One more point.

I'd still buy a Genesis over a Lincoln MKS. Hyundai may not be a luxury brand but the Genesis sedan fits the competition for this Lincoln.

In response to wrinklebump, i think it's Ford that's broken not just the Lincoln division...

Altimadude, I know this was for 1487, but I'll take a crack at it:

"1. This is a loaded MKS, the Ecoboost model starts at $50k.--Yes, and the Genesis V8 starts at $39k. Even if you step down to the V6 models of both, the Genesis still spanks it and it's still $10k less."

As far as luxury and features go, I don't think the Genesis is in the same class as the MKS. I really think it's in the same class as a (properly equipped) Taurus. The SHO gives you more than the Genesis for similar money. The MKS is another class of luxury.

"2. The Lincoln has AWD, the Hyundai does not.--The AWD of the Lincoln is for traction only, and it provides little help (0.3sec in 0-60 accelleration) in comparison to the "inferior" RWD of the Genesis."

Since when is traction a bad thing? When grandpa is looking for a car to drive in Midwest winters, he's going to want AWD.

"3. The Lincoln has more features.--Ok, decontent the Lincoln down to the equipment of the Genesis (take away the self-parking gimmick, the laser snooze control, and the stupid dubs), and the Hyundai is still $10k less."

See #1.

"4. Hyundai isn't a luxury brand.--Ok, I concede that. But is Lincoln really a luxury brand anyway? How does it compare to the likes of Cadillac, Audi, Lexus, MB, BMW? I kind of think of it as Mid-luxury...like Acura and Infiniti. I mean, the MKS is just a Taurus SHO with a few bells and whistles on it."

I think of Lincoln as more of a traditional luxury sedan. The other luxury brands seemed to have abandoned that (now smaller) market. It's not bad marketing to fill the gap.

"Ok then. Scrap the Genesis comparison."

Whew!

"Tell me why I should get this Lincoln over a VW Passat CC w/4motion or Ford Taurus SHO?"

You shouldn't. I wouldn't either. Grandpa is another story. Different strokes for different folks.

Lincoln biggest competitor is the Taurus SHO. Lincoln really is not at the point where their name and logo is at the level of BMW and MB. Cadillac spent many years marketing themselves and building cars on the level of the big Germans. Caddy doesn't even see Lincoln as a competitor anymore and don't even mention them in advertising with the exception of the Navigator. Lincoln's biggest mistake was abandoning the LS. Imagine a "LS-V" with the same supercharged V8 used in the Mustang KR. Even the Town Car with it's rear drive platform could be reengineered and redesigned to compete with the 7 series and S class if the LS was marketed well and engineerd well.

This is what Caddy is doing. The CTS is considerd to be on the same level as BMW and MB and a direct competitor for less money. Caddy has said that the STS and DTS will be combined and sold as the DTS. You can bet that it will be RWD and performance oriented like the 7 Series and be a close competitor probably offering the GM 6.2 V8 as an option. Ford's decision to drop their rear drive car platform was the nail in the coffin if they ever wanted to compete in the luxury performance car class. The MKS is doomed to take over from where the Town Car is today. A very nice roomy car with a big trunk to ride in to and from the airport.

Ford has made great strides in improving their quality and introducing new technologies but they should have invested more money in their engines across the board. The Mustang GT is only offering a few more ponies than the base Camaro. ECOboost is great but way to expensive for the market that shops Ford products. Really who is going to pay 40,000 for Taurus. The top engine for the F-150 is the 5.4 which is outgunned by all of the competition. GM on the other hand has great engines but needs to work on their quality. The 3.6 DI is tops in the industry and that 6.2 V8 is great no matter what vehicle the General drops it in. Who needs ECOboost when you have a big honking V8 that is such a smooth operator. In the Vette it gets 26 mpg on the highway. Not bad for a car with a top speed of 190 mph.

"I'd still buy a Genesis over a Lincoln MKS. Hyundai may not be a luxury brand but the Genesis sedan fits the competition for this Lincoln."

Me too; if only because the Genesis isn't built by the UAW.

As much as I think the MKS is a good car, I do too will pick the Genesis V8 over it, and as far as luxury level is concerned, in my opinion, the Genesis is far greater than the MKS.
And those brakes... Ford has yet to find a solution to improve the braking performance for this platform. Ford knew stopping for a problem ever since the introduction of the 500, and still couldn't do much about it. It's ironic to label these as the best in class in safety yet they come with poor brakes.

You know what amazes me the most about this car?
"Slalom (mph): 61.0 (stability control undefeatable)" !!!

That's truck territory! Many have said it though, this is a car fit to replace the Town Car, the quintessential couch on wheels, and that's pretty much it.

ALLTHINGSHONDA: I think you have the best approach of all. Beyong agreeing or disagreeing.
I do feel like FORD has very good initial and long term quality on all of their recent year vehicles but I do feel like most of their applied technologies is out dated.
I drive a 2009 Audi A4 and I do not feel like the initial quality of this vehicle is better than Ford's but the technology throughout the vehicle just surpasses Ford.