Four-Cylinder BMW Diesels are Coming -- And They'll Be as Good as 6-Cylinder Turbos

Those sound like lofty goals on BMWs part, but they have some very intelligent people working in their engine development (and marketing) department.

Let me get this straight, a tiny 2L 4cyl diesel is supposed to be competitive with a 300hp/300lbs-ft turbo gasoline inline 6? Give me a break. Much like the 335d, the initial acceleration will feel impressive due to the torque the but the lack of horsepower cannot be disguised and raw numbers simply won't lie. Horsepower is horsepower. This is nothing but marketing bologna.

I'm pretty skeptical that a 4-pot diesel could match the N54. Even coming from an engine company like BMW. I've never met a 4-cylinder engine I actually liked.

With less cynicism I have to agree that the lack of horsepower will make it impossible to match the performance of the I-6. I think the 320d does 7.7 sec 0-60 and the I-6 does it in 5-something seconds. Unless they added a lot more boost or something...

However I think a 50 mpg car from BMW with "good" performance credentials is a good idea.

- Given the 335d is already pricey why cant the 4cyl diesel be targeted at a lower end of the segment?

- Lofty performance goals are great but I really can't see people buying a diesel powered car for performance reasons.

- Given that just about everyone has tightened their wallets, wouldn't it make more sense for BMW to offer a 200ish HP diesel with a nice dose of low end torque at a lower price vs the 335d?

- 335d = 335i / 320d = 328i That just seems much more logical to me.

I don't want 300 hp. The 320d EfficientDynamics is fine as-is. 109 g/km CO2 and 0-60 in under 8 seconds in a great-handling, refined, six-speed manual sports sedan.

THe point is that people like me never do the 0-60 thing. Its mostly a 0-30, 0-45, or 45-70. The low end torque of diesel takes care of mose day to day activities and makes for good highway cruising and passing. It sure beats a hybrid when it comes to performance and it offers good fuel economy. I"ll take my 4 cyl in the X3 (need to fit at least 2 eletric basses, effects, an ampeg classic head and a 4x2 speaker cab). I do love the HP and revvs of a petrol engine but my 6 years of driving suggests that in 99% of driving i don't rev past 3000rpm 75% under 2000 rpm.

@hondacura4:

I totally agree with you - Honda seems to have their collective heads buried pretty deep...in the sand as of late, and thinks everyone out there now wants a hybrid-powered car of some sort.

I'm getting really tired of all these auto companies deciding for me and/or their prospective future customers, what's best for them, and what THEY think we all want.

Generally speaking, businesses should produce what customers want, not the other way around. It'll be great when automobile dealer's lots are chock-full of alternatively powered vehicles, and not enough customers to go around.

Maybe Al Gore could purchase up all the future hybrids, because in case you haven't heard, he's now a billionaire, thanks to all his global warming crusading - way to go Al!

So the next stop is a turbo-diesel V8 M-car right? Do you think that will be the next M6?

Alas, not a word on weight reduction. Cars need to get back under 3000lbs. Every 100 lbs effectively gives 10hp while improving dynamics, emissions, fuel economy, and fun factor. This needs to be a priority and in the forefront. BMW should lead.

Joseph
San Diego

I don't know bimmerjay, I like the M10 in my 2002, and the M42 in my Club Sport is a lot of fun to thrash as well. You REALLY need to try an E30 M3. As for diesel fours, I wouldn't mind one in a M Sport 1er hatch.

If they can get it to rev higher and produce torque at those revs, 300 hp might be feasible.

I'll be first in line for a 120d or 320d if they can keep them priced comparably to the 128i/328i. If not, I'll pass.

@chavis10 - where does it say it is aimed at the 335 (300 hp...300lb ft) Sounds like the 328 to me.

I like a great car as much as the next person, but lets get real - what percent of the limit do most people tap on the average day around town?

Great handling, fine torque, enough power to get out of its own way - all with great gass mileage and lower co2 emissions. Setting ego aside, it sounds like a practicle solution to balance the automotive soul and the ecological conscience.

Hmmm..... interesting. They'd have to get it up to 150hp/L, and the diesels just got to 100hp/L. It's certainly possible, the diesel truck guys are modified well pass 150hp/L, but that's in a highly modified state. And they don't really care about emissions or durability.

Diesels are inherently limited in revs, to it's just going to take a LOT of boost. The current compound setups for diesel cars is typically a GT12ish size small turbo paired with a GT17ish big turbo for ~200hp. To get to 300, they'll need a ~GT25 size big turbo.

Bring it on BMW!
There are buyers in the U.S. market that are waiting for this. Currently, the only 4 pot diesels are in Volkswagens and Audis and if you don't care for any of their smaller models (or for FWD), you're out of luck. Or if you're a BMW fan (or a RWD sporty car enthusiast), and want more fuel economy than today's models offer, then this gives you a new option.
My only hope is that BMW offers it with a manual instead of an auto like their current 6 cylinder diesels or instead of an automated manual. For the enthusiast driver who still likes to use their driving skill to get the best balance between fuel economy and performance, nothing still beats a traditional manual. More fun too.

Do we know if BMW will allow a 6 speed manual on the 4 cylinder diesel?

@ jmaroun (& anybody else interested): Just had a chance to play back my notes, and Baloga did indeed note in passing that getting a four-cylinder diesel car to accelerate on par with a N54-engine BMW would require an overall reduction in weight. -- Erin Riches

"I've never met a 4-cylinder engine I actually liked." - bimmerjay

You've never been on a motorcycle...

Just went to the UK BMW site and it says the 320d has 177hp and between 52-58.9mpg. Not bad for everyday driving. I'd buy one.

"You've never been on a motorcycle..."

And a three is even better than a four!
;)

Most of you guys are completely clueless about diesel and their performance. Diesel engines for one are incredible engines. They outlast gas engines and are extremely reliable. One of the reasons the diesels are so damn reliable is the fact that they make huge torque numbers from very few revs. Not to mention, a diesel engine is designed to rev low anyway.

The hotter a diesel engine is, the more power it makes. Since diesel engines burn fuel with compression heat instead of a spark plug like in a gas engine, the hotter the compression, the better the ignition. No spark plugs, no spark plug wires, no ignition coils, no more gapping spark plugs or cross threading them either (if thats ever happened). What does that mean? Less money on maintenance costs.

So what if it can't accelerate as fast as the N55 I-6? How many times do you see bimmers shoot down the freeway on ramps to beat traffic? Every one of them i come close to rear ending because they enter the freeway at half the posted speed and gently accelerate. I say, the diesel engines will help improve the reliability image of BMW, bring the diesels as is.

In summary, its more important to have BMW's beautiful handing vehicles with exceptional engine performance (under 8 second 0-60 is good enough, a lot of SUVs sold today do worse) with very low fuel consumption and high reliability. Most of the posters on here complaining about the performance are in their teens anyway. Thats the last thing this country needs; inexperienced teenagers driving high performance vehicles.

My $0.02

As the owner of a 335i I'd gladly dump it for a 320d. 0-60 is irrelevant. Overall the handling of the 3 makes the car.

Ideally the 2.0D will also be a much lighter car than the 335i. Heck, step into a 328i and the car feels far more spritely instantly. Really, a 2.0 diesel with the 328i's power would be a phenomenal car anyway.

Someone mentioned reliability of the turbo in the 335i - amen. The 335i has a 120k mile warranty on the fuel pump. Why? Because they go out. Often. My 335i has had it replaced once already and it doesn't even have 40k miles.

@ cacressida:

Thanks for the formal dissertation ;) Judging by some of the posts I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people posting a) know that diesel engines don't have spark plugs/coils/wires; b) that diesel engines make alot of torque and c) aren't teenagers crying for more power. Usually when you start a post of with, "Most of you guys are completely clueless about diesel and their performance" you spend the rest of the post educating people. Instead, we got a bunch of stuff we already knew and a lame story about the driving habits of 3-series owners...

I'll take a 250 HP/450 ft-lbs I-4 diesel 3 over the 335i anyday of the week. It will fit in the garage nicely with my new VW Touareg V10 TDI :D

Sure - we'll get a 4 cylinder Diesel from BMW - maybe in 2015!

Spoke too soon... today driving home I got an engine malfunction light. This will make my 4th trip to the dealer in less than a month. 15 days in the shop since October 11. How many more will this trip add?

I am a coucil advisor for BMW in France. But I know the US! How lucky you are. I sell only 316d, 318d, 320d, 325d and 330d ans some 335d here.... No 328i advailable here but only 325i, 330 i and 335i. No 535i too! Because the demand is very different. Think about one thing..how lucky you are to drive only 6 gasoline engines everytime. Here it's very very different and rare. Even the 6 coupe ans convertible can be dilivered with the twin turbo disesel (635d)!!!
How lucky you are guys one more time!!!
Sébastien (France)

@roadburner,

"I don't know bimmerjay, I like the M10 in my 2002, and the M42 in my Club Sport is a lot of fun to thrash as well. You REALLY need to try an E30 M3. As for diesel fours, I wouldn't mind one in a M Sport 1er hatch."

Admittedly I've spent a lot of time with fantastic 6 and 8 cylinder engines, but not much with truly world-class 4-cylinders. I have only driven an E30 325i from that generation, I would love to try an M3. I like being proven wrong when I get in a car and it blows away my expectations. But outside of some truly unique engines, 4 pots have never sounded or felt satisfying to me. I am left lukewarm and wanting more - refinement, power, sound.

I drove a 123d Coupe M Sport with the 6MT in Germany a couple weeks ago. Impressive engine (my American friend did not believe me when I told him it was a d), but the -35i is just leagues more fun. Kind of amazing what we're missing here in the States though.

@yellowmiata

"You've never been on a motorcycle..."

I have... but very very rarely. The death rates on motorcycles are just obscene.

Sebastien,

We're lucky to have so few choices? The 3 series line-up in the US is horrid. We have one diesel and it's the wrong one. We should have the 330d, which is far better than the 335d - and much cheaper. Additionally, we don't have a single 4 in any 3 here. It's a shame as a lightweight 4 would make the 3 chassis far more enjoyable than the ultra-heavy 3.0 TT and even the slightly heavy 3.0.

"The 3 series line-up in the US is horrid."

It may be "horrid" but we also pay less for BMWs than Europe does. That $50K 335i is $65K in Europe. Plus it's expensive for BMW to certify multiple different powertrains in the U.S. that won't sell anyway. Decades of market experience have shown that Americans buy what BMW is offering here- the top 2 engines. Blueguy, you're weird and have tastes in line with maybe 5% or less of BMW's US customer base. In Europe however, you'd fit right in.

Sebastien, the US 328i = EU 325i. They are essentially the same thing, BMW North America just renamed it to the 328i for marketing reasons.

About time, according to times, no surprise. Its a go!

Goodmorning everybody!

I am very pleased to read your reactions about EU and US Market from someone like me who sell "318d berlines" etc.
Just one thing: 328i and 325i don't share the same engine!!!! In Europe the 325i delivers 218ch/hp thanks to its 3.0 liters 6 in line with HPI injection!!!! In the US I think you have the classic "VANOS" system because of the gasoline less refined in the US ;-)
(like in the 23i ans 30i Z4 ROADSTERS)...

Very interesting to notice the differences beetween the local production an the versions for export: lights system, upholsory, colors, wheels...
Sébastien

There are a lot of surprising comments here about 4 cylinder engines. For those who have never liked any 4 cylinders that they have driven, then I strongly suggest driving the Mitsubishi EVOLUTION. Its 2.0 litre twin turbos produce 291 horsepower and does 0-60 in just under 5 seconds. (Some tests I have seen say its good for 0-60 in 4.6 seconds while others say 5.0), I guess it depends on temperature, altitude, the type of surface, etc. I am not really a Subaru fan, but the WRX STI comes to mind also.

I have always liked BMWs but I think they are too expensive, especially since they are NOT very reliable. They are routinely rated as AVERAGE or below on the consumer reports reliability ratings. Also, I will never buy a rear wheel drive car as long as I live anywhere where it snows. It has to be front wheel or ALL wheel drive for me.

I would seriously consider an Audi. But they are a bit pricey now too and not much better in reliability but do offer all wheel drive on several models.

Additionally, the Mitsubishi EVOLUTION is all-wheel drive.

Bring it on. With gas getting more expensive, we could all use more fuel efficient cars. If they're still fun to drive, that's even better! Why argue about it? If BMW says they can do it, just let them do it. See what they can do. If they can pull it off, we all win in the end, don't we? We car enthusiasts will be especially happy. Take out some of the fuel expenses, but still deliver on the fun? Can't do much better than that.

Mitsubishi Evolution is not twin turbo. It's a great car, but it's a terrible example to vouch for four cylinders. It makes the same HP has an average V8 but also gets just as bad gas mileage, city and highway.

The good thing about diesel engines is that they almost always get great fuel economy on the highway. BMW is trying to balance power and efficiency. Unfortunately, they don't seem to at least try and make them affordable. It that case, they might as well not make them since most BMW buyers will probably take the gasoline version.

The 320d I drove on a tour of northern NZ played a huge part in my purchasing a 335i for my wife when I came home. If BMWNA had offered the 320d here, we would have bought one. That car, while definitely underpowered in comparison to the 335i, had plenty of power to make it enjoyable in the twisties and on the long drives. I think it also averaged the equivalent of 40ish MPG. It is a FANTASTIC car. I truly hope they bring them here. If I were BMW, i would lose the x28 entirely and replace it with the x20d.