CTS-V Challenge: Jaguar Bails, Lutz Talks Smack

Damnit Jaguar. I wanted to see the results with the XFR.

The Jag looks good and I'd like to see it perform here.

Did he honestly say "may the best car win" at the end? That slogan is so annoying. Its not even that I don't agree, just the arrogance of those commercials, especially after the bailout, etc, is brutal. Lutz is a real piece of work.

Exactly, coming from a company that just went bankrupt this guy needs to take it down a notch. THere is no such thing as the best car. Just has to to with customer preferance and budget. There is a thing called the fastist car and if Caddy wants that title sure it can have it.

Qoute from Lutz
"I think it means that the European high-performance sedans are excellent, even superb cars, but quite possibly not ready for racing laps right out of the show-room. The CTS-V is not only quicker, but will, in totally untweaked, stock form, run hot laps at any race track until it runs out of fuel. Transmission oil and diff oil temps are stable, engine oil temp doesn't go up, brakes get a bit more pedal travel, but don't fade. The street tires get a tad greasy, but handling and control remain excellent."

The M5 and E63 AMG isn't track ready from the showroom? :-?

"The M5 and E63 AMG isn't track ready from the showroom? :-?"

MAybe, maybe not. Aside from M cars I'm not sure that any of the V's competitors are truly ready for track abuse. Even non M BMWs aren't really suited for a track as evidenced by the 135's performance in Lightning Lap.

What happened to the M3?

"Even non M BMWs aren't really suited for a track as evidenced by the 135's performance in Lightning Lap."

Let's look at Apples-to-Apples, here. Non-M BMW's may not be track ready, but neither are non-V Caddy's.

"Exactly, coming from a company that just went bankrupt this guy needs to take it down a notch."

You said it. Those "They say the imports..." commercials really get under my skin. The American people just gave you a new lease on life. Stop calling them stupid.

I realize the GM has money issues, but can they really not afford to just go buy an XFR for the test? Hell, if GM can't afford it Lutz certainly can.

It's similar to everytime I'd laugh at the dummy who would drive up to a Porsche or a BMW in a Honda Civic Si wanting to race on the freeway and get totally ignored.
It might have been that Jaq did not see any benefit to race with the loser.

Nice BS excuse Jaguar! I was looking forward to the overrated XFR getting it's ass handed to it (by both BMW and Caddy). Pussies. ;)

"Let's look at Apples-to-Apples, here. Non-M BMW's may not be track ready, but neither are non-V Caddy's. "

Incorrect as usual. The CTS and STS have performance packages that include sport steering gear, sport suspensions and high performance brakes. Typically cars that can't handle track duty come up short in the braking department. You can get race ready brakes without getting the V. BTW, I'm not so sure the E63 is really ready for the track, at least not the last gen model.

"You said it. Those "They say the imports..." commercials really get under my skin. The American people just gave you a new lease on life. Stop calling them stupid."

I think the commercials are saying if you are uninformed you shouldn't try to pass off your opinions as if you're an authority. If you go around making statements like "Toyota's are the most efficient cars" without doing any research you could be considered stupid. I don't take any offense to the commercials because I'm aware of the difference between "import" marketing campaigns and reality. The fact that the commercials annoy people who don't want to face the facts is probably a good sign.

"Did he honestly say "may the best car win" at the end? That slogan is so annoying. Its not even that I don't agree, just the arrogance of those commercials, especially after the bailout, etc, is brutal. Lutz is a real piece of work."

Confidence is now arrogance? Did the Genesis commercials annoy you too? I do like your idea of how GM should market though- every commercial should reference bankruptcy and beg for foregiveness instead of talking about cars. Now THAT is a winning strategy that will encourage Toyota drivers to take a look at GM. Just for your information, the chairman (appointed by US government) is the one who said that GM had to get aggressive in terms of changing perceptions. HE spearheaded the notion and Lutz was appointed to head up marketing and get the job done. The "arrogance" you speak of was encouraged by the government chosen head of the board.

"What happened to the M3?"

I think an owner is bringing one.

"Exactly, coming from a company that just went bankrupt this guy needs to take it down a notch. THere is no such thing as the best car. Just has to to with customer preferance and budget."

Did Honda and Toyota ad agencies get the memo about "no best cars"? I don't think they did. Every commercial I see from them claims they are the most reliable, the best values, the most apt to hold value, the most efficient, the most trustworthy, the most awarded, etc. You call that modesty?

If the goal is to increase sales and go public and pay back loans why would you "take it down a notch"? Please explain. You don't sell more cars by "taking it down a notch". Have you not noticed Hyundai sales have risen as their ads and incentives have increased?

Toyota is those things. Proven by years of market research, Toyota does not need to be modest about its reliablity. Caddy can legitly claim that it has the "fastest 4 door sedan" (or use to as to the introduction of the Panamera) and should take pride in that but not the "best" car.

I merely suggests "Take it down a notch" as in, perhaps less weird marketing gimmicks. This challange thing doesn't really prove much other then Lutz is a loud man. I mean cars do have 0-60 times, lap times for various popular tracks and such for a reason.

To directly compair commercials Genesis emphisized size of a 7, performance of a 5, price of a 3. Caddy commercial, if i remember, was a desert where a CTS shoots out into the desert, turns into a CTS wagen, into a SRX. When I see Genesis commercials I'm usually like thats cool. When I saw the caddy commercial I was really confused cause I know both the caddy wagen and srx is comparitively slow.

I was just suggesting Caddy take some of the "Flash" out of the marketing.

Speaking of GM's overly aggressive marketing campaign: http://adage.com/article?article_id=139821

BTW, the author of this article, Mike Jackson, is a former VP-advertising/marketing for GM North America. He is currently a partner at digital creative agency SarkissianMason, New York. That said, I'm 100% positive he knows much more about GM's marketing strategies than 1487.

British pussies LOL

"Caddy can legitly claim that it has the "fastest 4 door sedan" (or use to as to the introduction of the Panamera) and should take pride in that but not the "best" car. "

I fully understand you arent capable of being objective but why dont you try and think about what you are arguing. Based on what people consider in a mass market car or crossover its very easy to see why GM is saying "may the best car win". In terms of build quality, design, mileage, pricing, safety scores and warranty protection the models GM is touting in the ads are equal to or better than comparable Toyotas. If you disagree you ought to explain why. Just saying "GM's cars arent better because they aren't from a Japanese manufacturer" isn't an adequate response.

"Toyota is those things. Proven by years of market research, Toyota does not need to be modest about its reliablity. "

Toyota is reliability and what else? If I presume that all cars today are reliable what reasons do I have to buy a Toyota? Styling? No. Value? Interior quality? Heck no. Please advise. Toyota is a superb marketing machine that happens to be in the business of making decent cars. Nothing they make seems to be designed to be best in class from the start except the Prius.

"Incorrect as usual."

Ad hominem much?

"The CTS and STS have performance packages that include sport steering gear, sport suspensions and high performance brakes. Typically cars that can't handle track duty come up short in the braking department. You can get race ready brakes without getting the V. BTW, I'm not so sure the E63 is really ready for the track, at least not the last gen model."

BMW also offers sport packs on the 3 and 5 series. I'm sure you brought up the 135i because it has been criticized for its under-steer, however it is not a competitor to the CTS or CTS-V. Your initial statement claimed that non-M BMW's were not track ready, but that was never the question. The question was, why does Lutz consider the CTS-V track-ready and the M5 and E63 not track-ready? Speaking of the E63, its track performance was good enough to land it in first place against the M5 and S6 in a C/D comparison.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/07q1/2007_audi_s6_vs._bmw_m5_m-b_e63_amg-comparison_tests

"If you go around making statements like "Toyota's are the most efficient cars" without doing any research you could be considered stupid."

It's funny that you would mention Toyota and efficiency. I took the "may the best car win" quiz, and it asked, "Who makes the most efficiency CAR?" not "cars." There is a difference. Toyota makes the Prius: the most efficient single car, but not the most efficient lineup. The point of the whole "may the best car win" campaign is to challenge the "perception gap," but to do that, you need to first prove that there is one in the first place. The wording of that quiz was done in such a way folks who take the quiz choose the answers that enforce the whole "perception gap" theory.

I'm thinking of making my next car a Jaguar, BMW, or C63, over the CTS-V to contribute to making people like Lutz go away

I think Lutz makes $6.9 million this year (wikipedia) in his new marketing position so yeah, BUY A COMPETITOR car, douche.

" I do like your idea of how GM should market though- every commercial should reference bankruptcy and beg for foregiveness instead of talking about cars. "

Yes because thats exactly what I suggested. You are really rolling today eh, 1487? Slow day at the office I guess.

"The "arrogance" you speak of was encouraged by the government chosen head of the board."

I didn't ever say I agree with your government's decision - in fact, I don't.

"The question was, why does Lutz consider the CTS-V track-ready and the M5 and E63 not track-ready? Speaking of the E63, its track performance was good enough to land it in first place against the M5 and S6 in a C/D comparison."

Lutz didn't saw the M5 wasnt track ready. The competition was open to all comers. Only Jaguar decided to enter- until they withdrew. He said they are "quite possibly" not track ready from the door.

"BMW also offers sport packs on the 3 and 5 series. I'm sure you brought up the 135i because it has been criticized for its under-steer, however it is not a competitor to the CTS or CTS-V."

BMW sport packages involve suspension tweeks, larger wheels and tires and seats. Not performance braking systems. The 135i that was tested at the track had the "sport package". As did the G37 which was totally unprepared to perform under track conditions.

"I didn't ever say I agree with your government's decision - in fact, I don't. "

Thats a personal problem- although not shocking since you pop up in every thread with GM bashing comments. My point was that the marketing team is doing what the board has asked them to do to increase sales and profits. BAsed on what Edmunds is projecting for October results it seems its working. If you hate everything GM and Lutz does I fail to see why your view of their ads would be relevant. Of course you hate their ads. You probably hate their logo and the architecture of their headquarters building as well. The question is are the ads effective- we will know soon enough.

"Yes because thats exactly what I suggested. You are really rolling today eh, 1487? Slow day at the office I guess."

Indeed.

Why dont you propose your ideal marketing plan for the New GM. You are long on gripes, short on solutions. What kind of "respectful" campaign would meet your high standards? I mean obviously you feel talking about the virtues of the product is "arrogant" (unless Hyundai or Toyota is doing it) so I would like to know what you feel would be appropriate and classy.

"I'm thinking of making my next car a Jaguar, BMW, or C63, over the CTS-V to contribute to making people like Lutz go away"

What can I buy to make comments such as that go away?

Doug and all the other Lutz haters will be happy to know a $103k E63 beat the CTS-V in C&D by 2 points. REJOICE!!! The Benz is better for "only" $35k more.

"Thats a personal problem- although not shocking since you pop up in every thread with GM bashing comments. My point was that the marketing team is doing what the board has asked them to do to increase sales and profits. BAsed on what Edmunds is projecting for October results it seems its working. If you hate everything GM and Lutz does I fail to see why your view of their ads would be relevant. Of course you hate their ads. You probably hate their logo and the architecture of their headquarters building as well."

Yah I'm not going to get baited into another war of words with you. I could fill my day responding to the fabrications and lies you spread - especially those fabrications regarding my opinion on GM.

Your last 2 comments are some of the most shockingly ignorant I've seen you make in quite some time. I'm guessing its because so few people respond to your flames these days. I suppose that's what happens when you have no credibility.

What's up with all the whiners complaining about Cadillac's marketing stunt? They made a freaking rocket sled and are offering it at bargain prices. It's good to see a little attitude that's well deserved. Seriously, what do you people want? Sure as heck doesn't sound like you want your tax money back.

I am not a GM apologist, but so many seem to just love to hate Lutz and GM, no matter what they do, and can be so biased that they're not even aware of it. Thus, they instinctively won't allow conflicting information to penetrate their cocoon.

"What can I buy to make comments such as that go away?"

1487: You can't.

"...so many seem to just love to hate Lutz and GM, no matter what they do..."

I have a friend with a CTS-V and I think its a great car for some people. After reading some contributors comments on this site I have checked out more of the Ford and Chevy cars. I've been surprised at some of the advances from Ford and the new Buicks are looking great. But, I still think Lutz makes really stupid comments no matter what company he works for.

"I am not a GM apologist, but so many seem to just love to hate Lutz and GM, no matter what they do, and can be so biased that they're not even aware of it. Thus, they instinctively won't allow conflicting information to penetrate their cocoon. "

Exactly. Its like a die hard partisan- everything the other party does is wrong 100% of the time no matter what. You can reason with people like that.

"But, I still think Lutz makes really stupid comments no matter what company he works for. "

And why is that relevant in terms of liking or disliking cars? The media loves Lutz and that is why he is over covered on the internet. I assure you the average American has no idea who Lutz is and could care less about what he says or doesn't say. I think people like to vilify him to divert attention away from the credible products GM has now.

Hey Ed - What Lutz said is absolutely correct. How is that talking smack??

Talking smack is saying something that you can't back up. That's not the case here. Lutz is proving what he says, and he will prove it once again today.

good point. I guess the Ed has a problem with Lutz showing confident in an excellent product.