Cadillac CTS-V Challenge: Who Would You Put Your Money On?

Based on the data I pulled from wikipedia, it seem slike the M3 should have the best chance. When we talk about times at the 'Ring, we're not talking huge margins here. Everyone likes to talk as if there are huge margins in track times, but in reality (all from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_times )

CTS-V: 7:59
BMW M3 E92: 8:05
BMW M5 E60: 8:13
Lexus IS-F: 8:18

"Why two of the journalists using the same car? Kind of defeats the purpose, no? How about something from Japan. Maybe an Infiniti M45 or Lexus GS460."

Jaguar gave them a car. Its that simple. The other brands weren't interested. I don't think the Japanese are even considered a target by Cadillac. No M45 has a chance. Only the IS-F would come close but even its a step below the CTS-V and M models.

doug:

The M5 and IS-F are way behind the CTS-V. Even on a long circuit that is a significant difference. I don't think anyone who knows much about Ring times has ever said there is a "huge margin" between these similarly priced cars. IN racing seconds do count and considering how much power those cars have 6-19 seconds is as much of a gap as you are ever going to see between closely priced and powered cars.

I say the M3 and M5 have the best chance. BTW; will it be LUTZ himself behind the wheel of the CTS-V?

I wouldn't count out the XFR; that car would be on my short list for a moderately fast sports sedan.

I'm just putting the competitors in perspective, thats all. Its helpful to consider the facts, especially given the amount of propoganda surrounding this event. As you know, 6-13 seconds on an 8 minute run can boil down to quite a small difference on a shorter track. For example, C/D Lighting Lap noted that the M3 was 1.6 seconds behind the CTS-V (this was on the M3's best lap). So, if there are people out there expecting a massive margin of victory, they may be surprised to see how close it is. However, as 1487 was quick to point out, seconds do count and a win by 0.1 is still a win.

This being the case, I'm sure the Caddy will be shown as a clear victor both in price and performance - and therefore value as well.

I don't care for how this event is being put together, but I'm glad to hear more about the CTS-V. I really think it would be an interesting long term vehicle.

I really don't see a point here. CTS-V is fast and a good car. I don't think its the performance of the car thats a problem. I think people know the CTS-V is a good performance machine. Its just a problem with the brand. GM needs to chill and spend less money on weird marketing gimmicks and more on their cars.

For all i know "Chris" could be Mike Schumacher in disguise and Tom is just a wall street d-bag.

Two XFR's, yet no E63/C63? And I'm assuming the Evo isn't here because it would upstage Lutz's (and every other entrant's) raison-d'etra...

Hunh. No Panamera or Evora, either?

Plus, I wouldn't go off the Nurburgring times when comparing cars for this contest. The 'Ring is just way more curvy and has far more elevation changes than the Monticello track. A better comparison would be the Top Gear test track. The CTS-V did a 1:33 in very wet conditions, which means it would probably have done 1:27-1:28 in the dry. That puts it around the E39 M5, the CLS55 AMG and the XFR, but well over the Evora, the M3 E90, or the RS4.

Hey, Ed: How much you want to bet that Lutz bows out at the last minute due to important corporate business and is replaced by John Heinricy?

The new CTS-V has been around the Top Gear track? I thought they had only taken the old model around.

pontneuf2503 says:

07:46 AM, 10/26/09

Two XFR's, yet no E63/C63? And I'm assuming the Evo isn't here because it would upstage Lutz's (and every other entrant's) raison-d'etra...

Personally I assume the Evo isn't there because, raw numbers aside, it's not competition for the CTS-V. It's a performance compact car, not mid-sized super sedan. As much as I appreciate the level of performace the Evo brings to the table, they are not competitors on any way.

LMAO! This is so funny to me. This looks like a short handed list of competitors. There's no E63, no C63, no Panamera? Come on guys! You're lacking some pretty fine competition. It makes me wonder did you leave them out on purpose because of the extra competition they would give you. Besides, isn't BMW about to drop a new M5? To me that would make this contest against the M5 null and void. It will be interesting to see what configuration of the track they use. On that note, I think it needs to be said that the Cadillac club/owners have a special track configuration at Monticello (2 miles of the 4 mile course). Coincident? I think not.

P.S.@ pontneuf2503- yes I think an Evo could get in on the technicality that it is a sedan. But we all no that would never happen because of the massive upset it would cause.

honestly, i could care less. drove behind a CTS the other day and was wondering what ugly cadillac was in front of me... when i finally looked at the badge. i honestly thought it was an old cadillac...

this competition is a set-up... so if the CTS-V doesn't win, i'll laugh. if it wins, then who cares...

Yeah I'd like to see some AMG models represented as they seem to be closer in design philosophy to the CTS-V.

"Personally I assume the Evo isn't there because, raw numbers aside, it's not competition for the CTS-V. It's a performance compact car, not mid-sized super sedan. As much as I appreciate the level of performace the Evo brings to the table, they are not competitors on any way."

Agreed. No one considering a V or M car is looking at an EVO. Besides, its not like BMW would ever ask someone to compare the M3 to an EVO on a track. They wouldn't even dignify Mitsubishi with such a comparison.

"Yeah I'd like to see some AMG models represented as they seem to be closer in design philosophy to the CTS-V."

No one is offering AMG cars for comparison at the track. The new E63 isn't even for sale yet so its not like an owner can bring one to compete.

Lutx specifically said that he was challenging performance cars around the price point of the CTS-V. While the cars mentioned have the performance to run with the CTS, only a few are cheap enough.
(Prices from Edmunds.)
S4--$46,000
M3--$55,000
C63--$57,000
IS-F--$58,000
CTS-V--$60,000
S6--$76,000
XFR--$79,000
M5--$85,000
E63--$87,000
Panamera--$90,000

As for the winner, I really don't care. However, I would be smiling all the way to the bank if I bought an S4. $14,000 can buy a lot of tires and speeding tickets. I wonder what the depreciation is on these cars?

I thought Jalopnik was bringing a C63. Did they back out?

You also have to consider that different track layouts cater to certain types of performance cars. Some cars do better on short tracks with tight turns others do better on longer tracks with long sweepers.

@altimadude, I think the Audi is actually reported to be the more expensive RS4 (and I would also be content with the S4 with the lower price). I think this is a great event, and I think Cadillac is served well by being bold and brash. Being faster around a track is not the the end-all measure of a road car, but it sure is fun. I respect any automotive company that puts itself out there and genarates fun with cars. Welcome back, Cadillac.

@337: Top Gear tested the 1st-gen CTS-V, but I doubt the new one would prove much faster. The handling and suspension tweaks between the generations are substantial for everyday driving, but less so on the track. The only major change, in terms of track racing, between the 1st and 2nd gen CTS-Vs has been a power boost, and the Top Gear track, like Monticello, doesn't dramatically reward power: the Ariel Atom is only a half second down on the Enzo.

If they would let a journalist drive an M3 it would be no contest.

"If they would let a journalist drive an M3 it would be no contest."

In what way? We've seen nothing that would suggest the M3 can keep up with the V in spite of its weight advantage.

But 1487, the journalists' pro-BMW/anti-GM bias is easily worth ten seconds a lap on a good race course, right?