Commentary: Fiat's Shallow Understanding of Chrysler

^^ I agree very much. Its going to take a hell of a marketing scheme to make Chrysler considered in the same breath as a Cadillac. Then again, Hyundai has managed to do it so I'll believe anything these days.

The problem with Chrysler, is that everything it sales is available across the street with a Dodge badge. There is nothing premium about Chrysler vehicles except maybe the 300. Maybe. Lest we forget that the 300 (don't even get me started on the PT) is over 5 years old.

it can certainly be done but it will take time, and courage. drop and forget everything single car on the current chrysler line up because every single car has a cheaper than the cheap interior and inferior motor (maybe except the 300, but then, still, that cheap material used on the interior...) and rebadge, yes, I said rebadge, the top dogs from Alfa, such as an Alfa 169, there they might have a chance.

Clearly if you're only looking at their current lineup, then no, they are not a luxury brand. However, that didn't stop Hyundai, and they're well on their way there now. Fiat can conceivably do the same with Chrysler, and while Tier 1 luxury may be a stretch goal, matching Hyundai, Volvo, Acura, and Buick may not be too difficult.

"Perhaps a reason being is I grew up seeing Chrysler New Yorkers based on Dodge Spirits"

Remember in thoses days Cadillac was also selling cars baded on the Cavalier and the Caprice and Hyundai was selling total junk like the Pony and the Stellar.

I agree that it will take a huge effort and some original thinking on luxury car design to leap frog to a high end car maker but it is certainly possible.

They simply need an original luxury car to sell... not a rebadge.

altimadude is spot on. My co-worker and I converse occasionally about the status of Chrysler and we both feel the same way.

I would have to slightly disagree with dougtheeng on Hyundai's rise to luxury status. I don't think they're quite there yet. The advent of the Genesis was only the beginning (no pun intended) and I still feel they need to prove themselves through refinement and increased luxury offerings. But I have always commended Hyundai for their eagerness and success so far. They've come a long way.

Chrysler COULD obtain luxury status again. But, like dougtheeng said, it'll take a marketing miracle to do so.

Because nothing says "Luxury" like a PT Cruiser...

Redliner, technically the 300 is 14 years old. The Mercedes W210 chasis it is based on was introduced in 1995 for the 1996 model year.

Why does everyone try to go upmarket? It's the lazy way to try and quickly make money back. High markups that try to sell the sizzle and not the beef. The problem is, Chrysler has no beef. WIth the exception of one or two limited market models (Challenger, Ram), they are in a world of hurt.

It's easy to try and compare to Hyundai but look at Hyundai's numbers compared to Chrysler. They actually sell cars that Americans want... what a novel concept!

And as picky as customers are with luxury brands, I don't see Chrysler doing anywhere as good a job as Hyundai. Like Fiat is the Lexus of Europe? Pump the brakes and give that one a reality check. The fact is neither company has shown the know-how to go toe-to-toe in the premium markets.

I agree with the commentary in the articles, Fiat has a shallow understanding of Chrysler and all the baggage.

Chrysler has gotten killed for the M-B E-series suspension when, in fact, the LX was under development before and during the sale. Daimler decided to create synergy by allowing Chrysler to use its suspension design (and even then, Chrysler did tweak it).

In fact, Chrysler had considered making the LH a flex platform capable of FWD, RWD, or AWD before shelving the concept due to cost.

If so, Chrysler will be the first and maybe the only luxury brand to sell a minivan. A $50,000 minivan anyone?

Have they driven a Chrysler. . . lately?

Chrysler simply does not have the image or the technology in it's pipeline to come anywhere close to attaining this goal. Fiat doesn't have a prayer with this type of approach. Besides, Lincoln can't even consistently maintain it's image and Cadillac's luster, while better just manages to get by. Daimler actually had a viable plan in creating niche vehicles for Chrysler that were a notch south of Lincoln and Caddy thereby offering some guarantee of sales volume. It worked until they simply let the lineup gather dust with nary a refresh let alone any redesigns to follow.

Personally, I like this idea. I think Chrysler's brands are all very mixed and not well separated. Dodge really needs to be competing more directly with Ford and Chevy and Chrysler needs to compete directly with Lincoln and Cadillac. Quality, styling, and everything needs to be reworked and updated in Chrysler's line-up. Jeep is okay where it is, but it has too many vehicles; it doesn't need that many, especially since some of their models are redundant. I know a lot of people would disagree with me, but that is my two cents.

I say go for it.
Alfa Romeo is proof that Fiat can design and sell premium.
Dodge is the bread and butter.
Jeep is off-road credibility with on-road capability.
Chrysler is premium to compete with Lincoln, Cadillac and some Acura, Lexus, BMW, Mercedes.

Given the choice of fixing Buick or fixing Chrysler I'd take Chrysler. Buick, in an attempt to lower the average age (65 years old) of it's buyer's is targeting Lexus, which has median age of 56 and Lexus is concerned that they are not appealing to youthful buyers.
So GM decides to kill Pontiac, which had the most appeal to younger buyers, and keeps Buick. Pontiac contributed 60% of the volume at Pontiac-Buick-GMC dealers for the first 6 months of this year.
GM has better product for survival. I have more respect for the ability of Marchionne to re-invent an automobile manufacturer.

If you've been in the corporate world long enough, you should know that what CEOs say in public is done for a reason. Sure, Fong is going to say that Chrysler is above Lincoln and Cadillac. What is he supposed to say? That it's not as good enough as Lincoln or Cadillac?
The proof is going to be in the pricing. I doubt that the Chrysler branded vehicles are going to be priced above Cadillac. Maybe par with Lincoln.
The intent of the Fong statement is probably to send the signal that the new company is going to strive for more differentiation between the Chrysler brand and the Dodge brand. That's what almost every analyst has been asking from all the Detroit 3: more effective differentiation between its brands.
Regarding Visnic's comment, it's pure marketing segmentation. Fiat owns Ferrari, and everyone knows it. You can't ask for a more premium brand than that. It does not detract from either Fiat or Ferrari. So positioning Chrysler as a luxury brand is no different than having Dodge sell the lower price Fiat sourced platforms while Chrysler perhaps sells the Alfa Romeo, etc. sourced platforms.

4g63, doesn't Mercedes already sell a $50,000 minivan? The R-class may not have sliding rear doors, but come on... that giant loaf of bread is as much a minivan as the Town & Country ever was. They don't even sell the R500 anymore, at least the engine in that was enough to garner some respect if you're a male and had the misfortune of driving one.

mj, it might look like one but its not considered one. not even a crossover. actually its under the category "wagon" in edmunds.com. still most people are just not sure what it is because its just hideous. but anyway good luck chrysler and fiat.

Of course Fiat can build premium cars. But will Americans ever regard a car with the Chrysler name on it as a premium car?

At this point the Chrysler name might as well say "bubonic plague."

I think the point of most of the comments is "you can't move a brand upmarket simply through advertising." Repositioning a brand, takes product. So the new Chrysler-Fiat has to introduce products commensurate with its ambitions. Fiat is a big enough company that it has platforms for all the segments so Chrysler's choices in terms of future products are broad as well.

Fiat isn't known for its product development skills. It would have been reluctant for them to somehow, all-of-a-sudden, find a way to make various exciting products. Sure Fiat's boss has been impressive, however I think Chrysler needs product development specialist, not expert turnaround executives who know how to save money by implementing efficient manufacturing and management structure. Fiat is worst in reliabilty in the U.K. J.D. Power & Associates ratings recently, which is one of the big reasons why Chrysler continues to fail in the U.S.

It's so many things to say about these two companies together, and how it was done.

What it all comes down to is that penny-pinching, efficient manufacturing skills don't sell cars...

To me, Chrysler has zero cachet in terms of refinement, much less luxury.

On the other hand, look how far Maserati and Hyundai have come. Even Ford has turned things around, something I never would have guessed just a year ago.

You cannot step inside any of Chrysler's cars without noticing that every single part of the interior is boarded up with hard plastics that don't even look luxurious from a mile away. While at least GM and Ford are trying to add more refinement (and are making good headway), Chrysler hasn't changed a bit (in a bad way). Heck, I would consider an Accord a step up in luxury compared to any of Chrysler's products.

Death to Chrysler. It's time for one of the Big Three to take a trip to the guillotine.

I recently talked to a chrysler sales manager who said they are currently taking the existing car blueprints (chryslers) and re-doing the interiors to start the change of how people perceive the company. I think they need to start developing new cars if they want a reach an upscale market and that will still be hard.

Sure, given enough time and money it can be done. But honestly, Chrysler doesn't have money or much time and Fiat's not showing any sign of being willing to hand over the kind of cash for the period this is going to take.

Everyone says look at Hyundai, but Hyundai never got itself into real trouble. It was a matter of someone in the company (the founder's son) finally getting in a position of control and saying we can't go on this way. Chrysler has gotten itself into trouble, very publicly, many times. Hyundai's story is more compelling because it's one of self-awakening and change. Chrysler's is a rerun of constantly doing the same stupid stuff and ending up back in the same bad place and trying yet again to get out. Not good for the old image.

Hyundai also has the luxury of good timing. They started while things were good and still have the advantage of a weak Won. So they can gain share in this down period which will help when things are up. Ford, while not having the luxury of an advantageous exchange rate, at least has a good head start due to good planning.

Chrysler has shown since the time of the Airflow that it's willing to decontent and not upgrade a good design in order to keep pace. To this day, it simply lets its replacement schedule lag the industry. That's not the mark of a true luxury maker yet it'll still be Chrysler's rep for years to come until proven otherwise.

Chrysler (and Dodge) means junk to me more than any other of the "(not so) Big Three," with Chrysler being more luxurious than Dodge. Both have a history of performance models and the invention of the modern minivan concept and this is their salvation. Dodge also makes the worst trucks from Detroit with the best engine available (Cummins diesel).

Wow, that's dumb.

I think Chrysler's best bet is to target VW (the old, premium & premium priced VW), and consider Acura, Saab, and Volvo secondary competitors. They'd be aiming for that weird, chic, small market niche between Honda/Toyota/Ford and the genuine luxury brands.

"Everyone says look at Hyundai, but Hyundai never got itself into real trouble"

Are you kidding? Maybe not so much in the States because they didn't sell much but in Canada saying you bought a Hyundai was the same as saying you bought a Yugo or a Lada. For almost 20 years they sold cars that fell apart in 5 years or less. Each new generation was supposed to be better but it wasn't.

Remember the Pony, Steller, Excel, Scoup, Sonota and even early versions of current cars?

Terrible durability.

Most people I know would still never consider one.

Yet now they are selling a car like the Genesis which everyone praises.

No matter how bad your name is, if you have a good product people will come back.