Fighting the Tickets for Revenue Scam

firstwagon,

One could argue that it's a huge waste of taxpayer money to be buying laser, lidar, and radar devices for the CHP and other police officers.

I propose removing the monetary incentive from the system - make the fees paid not go into state or municipal coffers, but instead into a charity fund for those injured in auto accidents, or something of that nature. Then, I'd imagine you'd see officers pulling people over to improve safety and not only to improve their department's bottom line.

Any system in which a judge's decision impacts the court's revenue is inherently corrupt.

When you're driving Rt 65 into louisville Ky and the speed limit goes from 65 to 50 in about 1/4 of a mile for no apparent reason and there are 6 cop cars, 3 on each side, giving tickets, then you know it's 'revenue enhancement', plain and simple.

A few years ago, Austin implemented a law stating you must slow to 20mph below the posted speed limit when passing an emergency vehicle. Of course, nobody was told about the law.
The very next day, a string of police cars lined up on the shoulder of MOPAC (a main artery in Austin). The first cop pulled someone over, turning on his lights (a police vehicle becomes an emergency vehicle when its lights are on). The cops behind him then proceeded to pull everyone over that passed him because they were "speeding." This continued to do this throughout the day.

You want to talk about a speed trap...

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Mike, thank you so much for finding this. I'm a strong advocate of personal rights and I find ticket abuse absolutely scandalous.

There is something unsavory about the idea of people who scour the city looking to punish citizens. The CHP, for instance, rarely assists any motorist with a flat tire or broken car. But they sure spend a lot of time cruising the minnows, looking to take a bite out of someone.

There aren't many professions worse or more unprincipled than a job with the CHP.

"There aren't many professions worse or more unprincipled than a job with the CHP. "

So true, but at least you sign up as a police officer to serve a real purpose (ideally). Meter Maids on the other hand... I'm not sure how they live with themselves.

The only way to fight these overzealous do-gooders is to vote not guilty when these clowns testify on a jury you are serving on. Waste their time like they're wasting yours.

Florida has a move over law, where you must (on a multilane road) move to the other lane when an officer has a car pulled over. And just like estreka said, the first day was a shitshow on the highway. They were pulling over EVERYBODY. The law was repealed a few months later because it was causing too many accidents when people were sideswiping people etc...(ROFL). The cops still enforce it however, and I'm not sure how..

@compliance,

Actually, people end up in the CHP because they can't get a job with the PD (very difficult in San Diego) or less well respected Sheriff's office (easier). It's the last ditch stop for someone who wants into law enforcement around here but lacks the education or mental/social skills to do real police work.

@firstwagon - I suppose we should all be good boys and do as we're told eh?

--> "The basic speed law in California does NOT say you are guilty just because you were over the limit as long as your speed was safe and prudent for the conditions."

--> "On the other hand, in California if the officer used radar and the **prosecution cannot JUSTIFY THE POSTED LIMIT**, the officer violated the law by using an illegal speed trap,"

Wow, who knew CA speed laws had a kind of self-regulating system? I certainly didn't before.

I wonder if the CHP even knows..

I can't say much for how Ohio runs things, other than there's a reason why the industry leaders in radar detectors are HQ'd here, the home of the world's first speeding ticket - since 1904.

Hah...I wasn't aware of those two bits of trivia.

Around here I think if the speed limit drops by more than ten miles per hour, a warning sign needs to be posted prior to the drop in limit. I see them all the time and sometimes, especially in construction zones, there are several. Although there's no excuse when you're warned, I've seen people get off before because there was no warning sign posted.

Speeding tickets and running stop signs or red lights aren't a big deal though. What's really frustrating is when the officer on a power trip decides to pile on extra citations, like reckless driving or the vague "improper lane use" and "road rage". The cop can easily take away your license on the spot, at least in Illinois. Unfortunately in a lot of cases in traffic court the burden of proof is on you the defendent, not on the prosecution as it should be, and it is difficult to fight these without a skilled lawyer.

In Kentucky a lot of the police work what's called "Federal Overtime"- where the Feds pay for additional hours. However, every cop on FOT has to write four "contacts"-AKA violations-per hour(but DON'T call it a Quota!). The screwy thing is that all four "contacts" can be written on the same driver, so instead of just a speeding ticket the guy also gets charged with having a license plate lamp out, an expired registration, etc. In the district court I worked in most all of the charges were dismissed at the initial appearance.

I have to wonder about the whole "fund raising" aspect of this. I can tell you that where I live, it's simply not true.

If there's an area where speeding is a problem, they put a speed camera (the kind that shows you your speed) up for a week or two. After that, the tickets come out. If it's something other than speed, they'll spend a few days hitting hard with warnings. After that, the tickets come out.

In other words, they give tons of warning that a crack down is about to occur. Heck, our highway patrol posts signs above the road, warning when there's enhanced enforcement.

Hardly "revenue enhancement". Maybe I just live in the right part of the country.

jimveta

I could use a new car. OK if I drop by tonight and take yours?

Yeah it's against the rules but you don't care about that so why should I?

Seriouly though, as for all the claims of unfair speed traps, You live in a free democratic country where the government is supposed to be responsible to the people. If the majority doesn't like something, have it changed.

We had photo radar but people didn't like it and the government couldn't show it lowered average speeds so it was cancelled.

We used to have lots of speed traps on open roads where speeds are faster but risks are low. There was no proof it improved safety so they were scaled way back so the police could be assigned to more serious crimes.

It's the great thing about a free country, you can get things changed if you can show they are wrong.

@bluedot.

"Actually, people end up in the CHP because they can't get a job with the PD (very difficult in San Diego) or less well respected Sheriff's office (easier). It's the last ditch stop for someone who wants into law enforcement around here but lacks the education or mental/social skills to do real police work. "

"There aren't many professions worse or more unprincipled than a job with the CHP. "

Are you stupid or bitter or both? Or do you drive a BMW unsafely on I-5 in California? Since many members of my family are in the CHP I bet one or more of them have nailed your ass to the wall many times for driving like the idiot you are. Lets hope that some "unprincipled" CHP officer pulls you ass from a flaming wreck if you ever need it. It does take a lot of guts to make such ignorant statements in public.

often times people would just elect to ignore warnings
around where I live, CHP usually would announce where about there will be DUI check points and speed traps, and from what I saw, people just ignore them warnings.

@firstwagon: Did I say breaking the law? Note that I said "doing as you're told" as in an authority figure telling you you're guilty of speeding. But guess what? The law doesn't say so.

In fact, nearly everyone including judges from what I've seen in court simply assumes that going over the posted limit automatically means you're guilty and therefore requires you to pay the fine (or get a refund since you've already paid by "posting bail") and accept the penalty points on your driver's license.

Surprisingly, the CA speeding law was rationally designed not to be black and white but to actually require *judgement*. I would bet that in most cases, if you were to actually apply the law most people would not be found guilty.

Of course, the politicians would wise up and probably revise the law, unless it was established via a proposition. But getting laws changed is not anywhere as simple as you make it to be. It requires overwhelming pressure, coupled with a demonstrably obvious injustice that takes place on a large or concentrated scale.

^ sorry about the confusing statement about a refund. I had meant that since you already paid the bail amount in order to show up to court to defend your ticket, if you're found not guilty you should be refunded that amount.

Of course with the ignorance and even perhaps incredulity regarding such a law, the chances of not being charged is slim to none.

"I can't say much for how Ohio runs things, other than there's a reason why the industry leaders in radar detectors are HQ'd here, the home of the world's first speeding ticket - since 1904."

Tell me about it; my wife was working in Cincinnati when we were dating. Welcome to the People's Republic of Ohio.

"Actually, people end up in the CHP because they can't get a job with the PD (very difficult in San Diego)"

I'm calling b.s. on that. I saw many sorry excuses for officers over this last weekend at Street Scene. Our PD is so under-staffed, I think they'd take anyone - even me!

@cz75 & roadburner:

Total agree with both of you. On a fairly recent trip, we saw 5 police cars from Louisville, KY to the Cincinnati, OH bridge, which is about 95-100 miles or so. We saw 42 police cars on the 230 miles to the south side of Cleveland, OH. That just ridiculous IMO.

In the Seattle area, I see Sheriff deputies hiding out in darkened side streets where they can cherry pick speeders - frequently on the downside of a hill.

Posted speeds also change frequently on any a given road up here. At least in California, you can take a 20-minute traffic course to clear your record. Not so in WA - you must waste your time and appear in court.

^^ by the way, they haven't caught me in this situation, but I'm still irritated by it! I never had a speeding ticket in CA either, in 16-years of driving.

One ticket I got was for going 87 *set the cruise control to 85 but eh* in a 70 but this was like middle of the night on I-5 with no visible traffic in either directions. a CHP officer literally came out of nowhere. So im guessing in Kern county, there are CHP officers who stay up all night in the dark with all their lights off to get speeders? idk

Oh I forgot speeding is ok when nobody is around. Let me thumb through the Constitution to the part where it says driving is a right...hmmmmm guess what...ITS NOT THERE....if you want to speed then be prepared for a ticket. Speed traps are sleazy and wrong, period. But some on here like blueguy think it is their God-given right to drive his BMW as fast as he wants with no regard for others, then whine about how "unprincipled" the CHP is. People like him make me puke. Any wonder why some BMW drivers are despised........

Well, I understand what you mean but citing the constitution is fairly useless as it only defines what the federal government can and can't do.

And when it comes to driving, it fundamentally boils down to property rights IMO. And since we, the taxpayers all completely fund the roads we drive on, I think driving is actually a right.

Of course that doesn't mean we can endanger others. How we use the roads is up to discussion though. But the problem is that most laws are implemented in the first place without any real discussion amongst the people. And they only get changed when there are enough people pissed off.

Limit = 65 mph

Going 80 mph in rush hour -> obviously speeding
Going 80 mph at night -> perfectly fine

Setting up a long 3-5 lane highway with no intersections, no lights to have a 40 mph limit when average speed is a very safe 60 mph -> unjustified; obviously used as a speed trap

Ironically as I pointed out, CA laws already address these circumstances.

@felonious, ask around. The SDPD is pretty selective. El Cajon PD less so. Sheriff's even less than that. CHP = pulse.

@Bodyblue, I'm trying to figure out when I sneezed in your Cheerios.

@dot

Say something stupid and offensive and you will get nailed every single time...your ignorance is astounding.

@body, oh, I see, you just like to attack people. Carry on.