Is the Pontiac G8 Really Worth Saving?

Alot of vehicle sales come from base and mid level configurations. Too bad the V6 isn't really worth buying. At 256hp and almost 3900 lbs, it's not fast or fuel efficient so what exactly is the point in buying it over other sedan. The fact that it is RWD is the only thing that comes to mind.

Hey Ed, your link is wrong.

Bad link.... Its taking me to a "Valvoline Offering 300,000 miles guarantee" page.

I think the G8 is an excellent car, and that it should be kept.... but with some tweaks.

1) As much as we know it as the budget performance car, I think it should still have a lower starting price tag. I think $24k Starting would be much better as thats right there with its main competitors, The Charger and 300 AND just plain embarrasses BMW.

2) I was going to add maybe GM should exchange the v6 for a Turbo 4.... but not sure how that would work in a muscle car.

Its a great car and I will hate to see it go. This is one car I think could become a classic car 30 years from now. I think this car brought a lot of people to pontiac that probably would never have even considered a pontiac. Unfortunately, the rest of the pontiac models are too nondescript.

Dream Idea:
Maybe GM should sale this platform to Ford so they can have a great RWD platform!

A relatively inferior base model certainly did not help, but giving it to Pontiac, with fewer dealers, a narrower brand following, a poor brand stigma, and sparse marketing dollars is likely a factor too. I suspect sales would be higher as a Chevy, and higher still if they put the 3.6L DI that is the Camaro's base engine in the base model.

"if they put the 3.6L DI that is the Camaro's base engine in the base model."

Now THAT right there is a darn good idea.

The 'domestics' can't keep charging Japanese/European prices and then resort to incentives. To everyone else, the base price appears too high on internet searches so no one heads to the dealership, or if they hear about these incentives they think 'hmm must not be a good car, it isnt selling.'

GM, Chrysler, Ford brands should be priced like Korean cars to get people back in showrooms.

@jayparry:

The G8 GT is priced very well, but it's audience is very limited. Mainstream buyers are comparing this car to Camry's. They don't car about V8 performance or which wheels drive the car. The want the ultimate practicality. The V6 G8 isn't going to cut it for them.

stovt001 also has a good point about Pontiac as a brand being a problem.

"GM, Chrysler, Ford brands should be priced like Korean cars to get people back in showrooms."

Then their workers should be paid like Koreans.

autoboy16, the Hyundai Genesis coupe has a turbo 4 as the starting engine. It's a fairly good chassis...you might have heard about the whole Pikes Peek thing. :)

"I think $24k Starting would be much better as thats right there with its main competitors, The Charger and 300 AND just plain embarrasses BMW."

Any owner of a BMW 550 who reads this will laugh. It takes a LOT more than what you describe to embarrass a BMW. I doesn't matter how low you price the G8 and how fast you make it. It simply does not compete with any BMW product. Period.

oops, meant PeAk, not Peek. :)

Maybe they would have sold better if you didn't have to enter uber expensive halo trim level to get an engine that is from a vette rather than a pick-up, and a clutch.

I posted this on another G8 blog:

I like the look of the G8. First GM car that I would go test-drive. Not a smart car to produce now though. If I was an exec at the New GM I would keep the G8 and lighten it up, maybe reduce dimensions and put in a smaller more fuel efficient motor. I'd source a 2.0L turbo or use the existing DOHC 3.0L GM motor (255horse/217tq). The G8 curb weight with the V8 is around 4,000lbs. For a comparison, the BMW 328i sedan with 3.0L 230 horses has to pull around only 3,400 pounds.

My point to GM: make a dependable, stylish compact 4-door with good gas mileage and I will buy, buy, buy.

everything gm makes is overpriced,ugly and breaks too easily. its hilarious how they compare this junk to the m3. im glad they canned it

Hey ctpax, that must be why every tester of the G8 GT or G8 GXP compares them to the BMW 5-series, right? Because it just doesn't compete at all.

eurosfirst, that is easily the most useless post I've seen on here in ages. Good work.

Disclaimer:

I drive a 2009 G8 GT.

That said, I will observe that the G8’s reported off \ on \ off status seems to have generated more press response and more [ Edmunds & other ] board postings than any other automotive related topic in recent memory. With the possible exception of the GM bankruptcy.

Inlinesix – Comparing the G8 V8 \ GT to a BMW 328 is really not fair. While a reasonably well equipped 328 may list for something close to a loaded G8 GT [ or even more ], the G8 is much, MUCH larger – and much, MUCH quicker in acceleration. The BMW 5-Series [ substantially more expensive ] is a closer match, size-wise. And a 335i [ again, considerably more expensive ] is a much better match acceleration-wise.

While none of this is meant to suggest that the G8 GT is [ or is not ] “worth saving”, after 10,000+ miles, I still believe that the performance & dynamics of the G8 GT provide an exceptional bargain – if those are your priorities.

If not, a CamCord is likely a far better choice.

YMMV.
- Ray
No buyers remorse here . . .

inlinesix wrote:

"My point to GM: make a dependable, stylish compact 4-door with good gas mileage and I will buy, buy, buy."

I believe GM's answer is the Chevy Malibu & Cadillac CTS. Unfortunately, the Malibu doesn't sell as well as the Impala and doesn't come close to the sales figures of Camry and Accords. However, the CTS is a great seller in the Luxury segment.

Um, he wrote "Stylish compact". Neither the CTS nor the Malibu can be called compact.

fuhteng,

they may compare those two cars' different characteristics until the world ends but they still will never compete against each other. Name one person who's ever cross shopped a 30K G8 and a 60K 550i.

rayainsw: I wasn't relating the two cars. I was saying if I were in charge I would keep the styling of the G8 and reduce the size in order to compete with compact 4-door cars. IMO the G8 has the styling but GM got the engine/weight wrong to sell to the masses. If I have my facts right, the smaller motor available for the G8 was the 3.6L. Thats about as small as you want with a 4,000lb car.

You drop a lot of pounds from a fat-ass car you can use a smaller motor and save gas while keeping the car fun to drive.

I cross shopped a 30k G8 GT, 40k G37 and a 45k 335. Does that count? (I went with the G8 GT, because it was cheaper and I liked the larger size.)

I know full well (and still as guilty of it as anyone) that marque means a great deal when it comes to cars (or any luxury toy like mp3 players, TVs etc). That is why I sneer at other Pontiacs. Most of them are awful.

However, that doesn't change that Holden created an good/great/excellent (depending on who you talk to) car, that does most of what a BMW 5-series will do, for a FRACTION of the price. Check out the Top Gear episode with the Vauxhaull VXR8 (aka G8 GXP) versus a bunch of comparable Germans. The Germans (in this case a 5-series) are not twice the car in any kind of dynamic or substantive comparison. But they pull off being twice as much because of everything else that goes with them, like the better marque, the luxury items, the history etc.

inlinesix - amen. But how do you intend to drop the 500 or 800 lbs? I can't think of a car on the road today that doesn't weigh more than it probably should, no matter the cost.

fuhteng,

with all due respect I don't think it counts. Besides, a G37 and a 335i are not 'embarrassed' by the G8.

I don't have any objections to anything from your description of the VXR8 as compared to the Germans in the Top Gear episode.

Its worth to save. But here is the thing. Is Gm going to thing this is vehicle to compete with MBenz, BMW and Audi's or this is a car that will be a mainstream vehicle such as a Milabu, Impala, or somethings tat is between the higher end Camry or Avalon. Look small engine works on these vehicles. If GM rally wants to compete among the Mbenz and BMW and Audi's, They all fit small engines into their cars.

Look, the big V8 is fun to drive. The small engine with reasonable power will sale. The BMW sell more 328 and 335 than a M3. If the G8 V8 is a M3 than G8 with small engine will the 328 and 335.

You have to cut down on the size. I understand for big people, a car like the CTS and G8 is better. But with looming fuel economy standards and people in the U.S. remembering $5.00/gallon gas, a company will sell more cars, like a revised Pontiac G8, if they get away from the bigger-is-better mentality.

If Chevy dropped a 255 horse DOHC 3.0L in a 175" long 3,200lb completely redone G8 they'd have a bad-ass compact sports car that would compete as long as quality wasn't an issue.

"Any owner of a BMW 550 who reads this will laugh. It takes a LOT more than what you describe to embarrass a BMW. I doesn't matter how low you price the G8 and how fast you make it. It simply does not compete with any BMW product. Period."

Well, the current 5 series is hardly the car that the E39 (prev 5 series) was. I think the joke's on the 550 buyer...70k for that? I at least want a sexy car for that much. BMW, aside from the 3, has really lost it's luster IMO.

blueguy, For some reason, the words "Muscle Car" and "Turbo Four" don't seem right. Especially at the area the G8 was aimed. However, a Strong 6 or Supercharged 6 fit the ideal better.

Its ok on the Genesis Coupe, but the G8 and Genesis Coupe are aimed at two completely buyers. IMO, the Genesis Coupe is more for the driver that wants a Sports Coupe like a G37 or 335i, but at a budget price. I doubt anyone looking for a 335i coupe is going to be looking at Dodge Challengers or Chevy Camaros.

AJT123 - IL doesn't think too highly of their 7-series either.

autoboy16: the current Dodge Challengers and Camaros will be gone soon. The G8 with a 6.2L wasn't "aimed" very well at any decent-size market.

I test drove a 335i sedan, the G8, Genesis Coupe, and ended a G35 Coupe. I would have bought a G8 because it looks great but among a couple other things the car is heavy and bulky.

The fuel economy that will be required in the U.S. will kill the "muscle car." If Chevy decides to reduce the size of cars it will do better. Period.

"AJT123 - IL doesn't think too highly of their 7-series either."

Not sure if that's a sarcastic comment or not, but all I have to say is S550. The 7 is invisible next to it.

Question: Is the Pontiac G8 worth saving?

Answer: Hell yeah.

To me, I think GM should've just sticked with the idea of the G8 being the American Caprice. For god's sake, they got a bunch of Holden Statesman, and rebadge those as the Caprice in the Middle East and South Africa. So why not rebadge the G8 as the American Caprice? If GM could rebadge a Holden Statesman as a Caprice in foreign countries, why not rebadge the G8 as a Caprice? And, FYI, the G8 is also a Holden in actuality.

You know, the G8 is one of two GM cars worth saving. The other is the Malibu. I think Ford though is becoming the best of the domestics. No one else has laser ignition! Pretty sweet! Check it out-
http://www.cargurus.com/blog/2009/07/21/ford-cars-to-run-on-laser-beams/

AJT123 - no, not sarcastic. There are at least two editors who prefer their Genesis to the 7 as a luxury car. The 7 is more fun, but the Genesis does the same thing for a whole lot less (gee, that sounds just like the G8 and the 5-series).

inlinesix - my question still stands. Not a single person is going to dispute that car weights (EVERY car) need to come down, but how do you intend to do that without massively increasing the cost? Cars weigh too much (it seems) because of safety and luxury items that have become standard.

fuhteng. You must have missed my last post: to reduce weight...

"You have to cut down on the size. I understand for big people, a car like the CTS and G8 is better. But with looming fuel economy standards and people in the U.S. remembering $5.00/gallon gas, a company will sell more cars, like a revised Pontiac G8, if they get away from the bigger-is-better mentality.

If Chevy dropped a 255 horse DOHC 3.0L in a 175" long 3,200lb completely redone G8 they'd have a bad-ass compact sports car that would compete as long as quality wasn't an issue."

IMO cars like the IS300 that weight 3,200 pounds is not overweight. Yet it has a 3.0L, 4-doors and ample rear seat room. If the 4,000 pound G8 was sized to weigh in at 3,200lbs with the GM DOHC motor it would have better performance than the IS300. With the right suspension thats a good car. Put in the 3.6L and you have a competitor against Infiniti and BMW.

Just read the new edmunds comparison posted yesterday about the Taurus and the Accord. Read to the end.

The current 5 Series is simply out-dated in the current environment, looks like "Dame Edna" on steroids and lost the visceral formula that had made the E39 model such a world-wide success. For an indication of this one need only observe the transaction prices of the E39 M5 for example, which holds steady in price and in some cases even -appreciates-. This contrasts sharply with ALL of the E60s (M5 included) which continue their precipitous drop in price. Mercedes' phenomenal price-break and plethora of new technology on the 2010 E Class will do nothing to help that trend (although hopefully the upcoming and much more conservatively styled E60 replacement will set things straight again).

The E60 M5 honestly went too far the OPPOSITE direction technology-wise and turned the entire driving experience into the realistic equivalent of a Gran Turismo racing game. Being that most BMW enthusiasts are diametrically opposed to computers interfering with the driving experience they've come to know and love, those are NOT winning qualities. Keep in mind, this is all coming from a BMW fanatic.

So given all this, I can easily see how there could be a niche of BMW enthusiasts who -aren't- card-carrying members of the more money than brains club, that would start out looking to lease or purchase a 5 Series and up at least test-driving a G8 GXP. In this sense a comparison between the two cars is not all that far-fetched.

The IS300 has ample rear seat room? For who? It is smaller than the 3-series or the Gs.

Fine, make the car smaller. But then it cuts into the midsize category. The G8 was always supposed to be full-size, while the G6 is the midsize. Sure, you make a RWD G6 with a wicked V6, and you have a hot car, but it is still midsize, not fullsize.

Cars are getting bigger thus heavier all the time. That is why both the new Taurus and the Accord could eat their namesakes from the early 90s for lunch and still have room for a Miata for dessert.

I like the trend of-bigger-is-better as much as you do, but instead of whining about a fullsize car that weighs 3600 or 4000 lbs (but also has the engine to move that kind of mass with rapidity), I accept what I have for options, and I went with what I liked the best.

I would love to see a 3200 lb RWD 4-door Caddy with that D6 V6. However, it (just like the 3, G, IS) would have been a little too small for what I was looking for.

Is the G8 worth saving?

Yes and no. Let me start this off with a disclaimer: I own a G8 GXP.

YES
For competition for the Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300C, there's little else out there. The G8 was/is a relatively attractive sedan that hides its size well, rides very comfortably, and was priced well. The more I drive my car, the more pleased I am with how it handles bumps and corners. On the whole, it's a well-made car.

And the one aspect in which it will embarrass BMW's is the power you get at its price-point. The LS3 engine under the hood of the GXP really is a monster, and you have to drive it to grasp the titanic thrust this engine offers. The wail of the intake as the engine roars toward 6000 RPM is glorious, and the manual transmission is brilliant.

More than any, this is a car you purchase for the driveline.

NO
I entirely agree that it only sold well with incentives piled on. I purchased mine when the 0% for 72 months deal was on for Memorial Day. Without that or a 0% for 60 deal, I wouldn't have gone for it.

Will it embarrass a BMW on anything /besides/ power and size? No. Not at all.

The leather is hard, the plastics rather less firm and still more plasticky than they should be, and my car's already developing a few rattles here and there that greatly worry me and even seem to vary by time of day. I'm hoping the car doesn't deafen me or fall apart at 50,000 miles. In the meantime, I've driven used BMW's with 50,000 miles on the odometer that felt as solid as this car does now.

No, this car will not embarrass BMW's.

--

But overall? A good car from a company known for nothing but mediocrity. It'll go down as Pontiac's best, most powerful performance car ever.

A gas guzzling rear wheel drive non-luxury car sold by a down and out brand is a niche car. However, with a better V6 like the Camaro and sold by a better brand, it might find a decent (although not huge) market. But, being that the car is already designed and you could just swap out some labels to sell the V8 version as a Chevy. I think I would have milked this design a bit more. Most of the costs are already sunk and there has to be excess capacity at the plant.

"I would love to see a 3200 lb RWD 4-door Caddy with that D6 V6. However, it (just like the 3, G, IS) would have been a little too small for what I was looking for."

Its good you got the G8 before it went away completely.

Even though the Taurus and the Accord could "...eat their namesakes from the early 90s for lunch and still have room for a Miata for dessert." My point with those two: with similar interior room, the Accord weighs 450lbs less. Is the extra 450lbs worth a bigger trunk?

top_hat - that was something Lutz mentioned too, that due to some import/export issues with Holden, it would have been wise to continue to draw cars from there to the US. I have no idea how much Adelaide is going to miss the US market, but I would imagine it isn't helping an already poorer part of Oz.

The apparent ease of transition is something that everyone who likes the G8 sees too, but maybe we're missing something.

Make two re-badged-G8s, one with the DI V6, and one with the LS3 and you're set! But I'm done with this discussion of how easy it should/would/could be. It is sad, but no more Commodores in the US.

No that TOP GEAR is the end all be all, but they really like the Holden Version and compare it to be a better bargain than an M5 and hard to beat.