IL Track Tested: 2009 Audi TTS

Color me impressed. Amazing what only 3200 lbs will do for you!

Much better that the previous TT! Styling is awesome and specs are impressive.

The 1/4 mile time seems a bit fast for a car with 3,200 lb...

* and 265hp

Well now, the TTS is starting to sound like a discount porsche - I like it!

^^Wait, just learned no manual is available. Perhaps this is still too much of a posuer sports car, after all...

No manual transmission?
Stupid.

dsg is faster than manual, period... and manual doesn't sell well, so why bother. get a VR6 powered one and you can still get a manual, though. also, with pretty looks, i think the pretty sound is a must...

DSG - live with it for awhile. It's okay but I'd take a manual over one.

The numbers are few better than I would have expected from an Audi product.

Pleasantly surprised.

Ever since Top Gear started showing over here more and more people are reviving the argument that "Flappy Paddle Gearboxes" are for morons and manuals are for "Purists"...give me a freaking break!

Gearbox choice is purely based on driving style and preference. I have yet to see a DSG be out-performed by a manual now which is why the majority of hi-po cars are using them.(Ferarri, Lambo, Nissan GT-R, etc..) To lable cars as "posuer" due to lack of a manual makes the people making the statement SOUND like "posuer" drivers!(next thing you know you'll all be arguing that a Jeremy Clarkson perm is stylish...)

Did I miss something? 4.9 seconds to get from 60 to 75? Unless there's some error there, this thing falls on its face sometime in the middle of 3rd gear. No thanks.

That 0-75 time seems like a goof... no way that jibes with the 1/4 mile time of 13.5 @ 102.8.

Good eye slhtonz. That is weak. Maybe Josh missed a shift.

I purchased a TTS Roadster on Valentines Day, which is appropriate because I love this car. As a long term manual tranny driver, I have to say that I'm very impressed with the Dual Clutch Tranny (DCT) on my TTS. In manual mode, it shifts faster than any stick possibly could. Wanna use the paddle shifters? You got it! Stuck in stop and go traffic and want a full automatic? You got it! Care to rock the stick like your old clutch days? You got it! It's the most flexible transmission ever. And it was delightful spanking not one but TWO Porsche Boxster Roadsters that gave chase after me one day on a NJ highway!

The baseball stitch seats are the most beautiful part of the interior, along with the fact that anything that looks like metal on the dash, actually is metal! Brushed or polished aluminum is used for every panel and every knob. The convertible roof is fully lined and sound/weather insulated inside, so you don't see the bars of the roof mechanism.

The reviewer didn't mention the fact that the TTS gets 21MPG City/29MPG Highway, along with that 265HP! Or that this Audi engine is the recipient of various "Best Engine" awards. And with AWD, the TTS is the least expensive, 2 seat roadster that I can drive year round in Northeast winters.

The only thing I wonder is if the reviwer used Launch Control to obtain the 0-60 times. Audi and most mags get 0-60 done in 4.8 secs for the lighter coupe, and 5.1 secs for the Roadster, when using Launch Control.

@darmok: i agree. right after i posted i noticed that... the 75 time must be a typo. i mean, the civic SI sedan they just tested gets to 75 in 10.1...

@slhtonz: Good catch. 0-75mph time is a far more believable 7.6 seconds, now fixed. And yes, launch control was used, but Josh said it didn't improve the times much.

That color is hideous. I would really love to see a GTI with that engine...

@ virtualscouser - have you ever lived with a DSG longterm? We're at 2.5 years with ours. My wife likes it over my manual. I don't mind her car in traffic. When I want to play the DSG just isn't much fun. It never misses a shift and it's blazingly quick but man is it boring. If I'm driving her car I usually do not use the shift abilities as it's too video-gamey: click and you're in gear with no mechanical feedback. Overall, it gets driven like an automatic 99% of the time and for me that makes for a car I don't look forward to driving.

This isn't about sporting or poseurs - it's about just enjoying driving. I like to be involved with my car while driving as otherwise I grow disinterested. A manual demands I pay attention and choose gears. The DSG, like generic automatics, removes me from the equation to a point where I'm not 100% involved in driving.

Now the AudiTTS put a performance image to the TT models. Good numbers in general. Edmunds needs to conduct a test for the Audi TTS vs. Porsche Cayman 2.9L.

@blueguydotcom - On the contrary, I find the DCT to be very fun. Slip it into manual mode and you still must select the proper gear for the situation that you're in. That's where skill comes in. If I'm cruising in 6th and see someone that needs to be spanked, I know I want 4th gear, maybe even third. Bang Bang! I'm there and someone is disappearing behind me. Hit the highway exit ramp, Bang Bang Bang Bang, and I'm in 2nd gear, chosen precisely to engage just before the apex of the corner, so I have my engine braking to slow me down.

Much fun, and no achy clutch knee!

@powell_jr - I chose Meteor Gray Pearl Effect, along with the Nappa leather brown baseball stitch seats. Very classy look and I get endless compliments.

btrdayz,

I just went on the Audi website and your car must be a stunner! Nice choice. By the way, which trim level did you get?

carfreak8394, Thank you! I went all the way with the Prestige package. I wanted the Nav and booming stereo system. I had an SLK280 before and regretted not getting those options in that car.

2009 TTS = nice

No offense btrdayz, but there is really no skill involved in the decision and ability to click a paddle 2, 3 or 4 times before a corner. In fact, I'll bet you could bang the downshift paddle 8 times and it would still select the lowest appropriate gear (which is what you want anyways).

Said transmission will be faster 99% of the time, but as I've said in other posts, 99% of us don't buy production sports cars seeking the absolute last 10th in lap time. They need to be fast and capable (on road and track), but they need to be involving and fun, and some even prefer challenging.

DCTs are marvelous. Outside of weight and cost, they are without peer IMO. However, they are no fun and require no skill to drive. We're getting closer to the Gran Turismo video game experience in our real world cars each year.

p.s. - I expect to have a DCT type system in one of my new cars in the next 5 years, but it won't be because I prefer it, but because my knees may not take stiff clutches anymore :)

Color me very impressed. And I second Powell Jr. I'd love to see a GTI with that engine so I could actually afford it.

GTI already has that engine, you only need to get it "chipped" or the ecu flashed to be more accurate. Just did mine today and I must say its nice... www.goapr.com

I'm 100% for MT. DSG and F1 style transmissions are amazing, and fast. But they also are expensive and complicated and the most complaints I read about cars are problems associated with AT/DSG style transmissions. I also wonder how much it cost to replace the clutches in those things. A MT is simple and trouble free, although all of them aren't great.

So yes DSG are technically better, but MT is technically better to most for purity, connection, involvement and cost to maintain.

I guess if you lease cars it doesn't matter. And in a F430 I'd love to flip through the gears, or in a GT-R but if I had the option on those...MT.

I dissagree, you don't know how many times a driver is distracted due to trying to find his shift pattern...(Darn! Missed 3rd! Everyone on this forum will possibly claim that they doesn't happen to them...) What good is driving if your shifting the car takes up a majority of your attention? Sure, I miss the sound of the old Ferrari shift gates chinking away but if I can focus 10-20% more on entering and exiting corners and the best way to enter the next bend, then I think I'm enjoying the driving experience a little more.

As far as connection goes, that's dependent A LOT more than your selection of transmission type. I can assure you that if you put a 5 speed in a Buick Lucern it is not going make a world of difference in connectivity besides having to row your boat gently down the stream. Suspension, steering feedback, throttle response, braking are all key to connectivity. As I said before, it boils down to preference but I dissagree with those who say that DSG trannies are for non-purists.(it sounds very elitist to me) Traditionalist maybe, but not purists....

As far as costs go, how much does a clutch cost to replace?(dealer wise) How much are synchros after ramming through the gears? The only A/T units that blow now a days are either because of owner disregard (not checking fluid levels, putting the car in neutral and revving the engine and dropping it in low, etc...) or factory defects. In all the cars I've owned with A/T I have NEVER had any problem with it. "Routine" maintenance on my M/T cars cost wise was sometimes idiotic.

Come now virtualscouser, it is clear we're not talking about non-sporting cars here because torque converter autos are still the best (cheapest, lightest, etc.) for those apps.

So, now that we've eliminated that, let's address the strawmen. First, shifting a MT car does not take up "a majority of" your attention. But the very fact that it does take up attention is part of the challenge and involvement. Will you occasionally miss a shift? Of course, we're human. But if I miss more than one in a couple hours of track time I'm having a bad day (usually a balked shift in a heavily loaded downhill corner). On the street, one a week would be excessive.

Second, more automation and more parts leads to more failures. Its almost immutable as a law of machinery. For automatic transmissions, you could look to Honda's 5AT which had about a 1% failure rate. Or even better, look to GM's 4L60E which, according to some surveys has a 25% problem rate and a failure rate far in excess of 1% (strange that you don't hear about that in the motoring press as much as Honda's probs). Our Tahoe which doesn't see any major loads (and no towing) has lost 2 in 60K miles - call it design flaws, but automatics have lots of issues too.

Regardless of specific and anecdotal examples, automatics and DCTs also have wear parts - far more in fact than a traditional single clutch MT. And while a DCT should be immune to the foibles of the inexperienced pilot, they too must slip the clutch to start from a stop (or god forbid during launch control! :). And when they wear out, you must replace two clutches and recalibrate their operation (see Edmunds GTR for reference to the latter).

Anyways, with the advent of perfect shifting DCTs, active torque apportioning (or even wheelspeed altering) differentials, advanced stability control systems, preloaded brakes (even braking systems that begin to brake for you) performance driving is increasingly becoming a roller coaster ride where you point the wheel in the general direction you want to go, mash the gas and let the car do the rest. Undoubtedly this will result in a quick lap time (even in F1, during the era where TC, auto shifting by track location, etc. worked quite well), but the driver will have less and less to do with that speed. While I love roller coasters, I'd much rather have a good car on a racetrack trying to extract its best using my skills as much as possible. Personal preference I guess.

you cannot find a better deal than chipping the 2.0T engine in the VW/Audis through APR. I have already chipped my previous 2007 GTI, and my current 2008 Passat, and the performance is so much better. In my $23K GTI, I had the ability to completely dust cars that were more than $35-40K. Love the expression on their faces in the rear-view mirror...

Ok but you didn't post the failure rate of manual transmissions. It's easier to link the term "fail" with A/T as they are more than likely computer controlled and the driver has little or no control over the transmission besides selecting what state it needs to be in.(Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive) Manuals on the other hand don't fail, they break and then the driver claims it's "wear". I'm sorry but over the period of ownership I see manuals costing more to maintain than a good A/T that's well maintained.(whether its a DCT or regular slushbox)

Don't get me wrong, I've had my fun with manuals, but I don't see any less involvment or excitement when going to manual mode on a DCT and tearing through a canyon. The only difference is that my right arm and left knee don't ache as much after a 3 hour run.

virtualscouser

I'm not really talking about Automatic Transmission, I'm talking clutchless manual which is really a MT with computer controls. AT's are very good at lasting and working, but by far the more problems I hear are from normal people complaining about odd behavior of AT. Take my 3-series. Aside from driver error, nobody who can drive MT really complains about any odd behavior (save a clutch delay valve, but that's at the extreme) yet there are tons of complaints about jerking and low speed delay that's 100% the AT.

But back to the maintenance cost. Tell me the cost to replace the clutch inside a real clutchess system like a PDK, GTR, DSG or whatever Audi calls it. I'm sure at the time where you wear a clutch out 100-150K...my Acura integra when at 180k. I'm willing to bet the cost to repair a system like that is 2-5 times more expensive.

Also if your legs and arms hurt from shifting you need to hit the gym or walk....The only time my leg has hurt was in an old ford ranger who's clutch seem to require a leg press. My 335 is fine, it would be like complaining that your leg hurt from pressing the gas, or arms hurt from turning a wheel.

So lets not compare what you "see as cost' lets find out how much it costs...my bet it a lot.

So I did some light "google" work and found lots of people complaining about the DSG (Europe and USA) and listing repair bills out of warranty from $2k for a control unit to 5K for repair...seems like the same cost as a clutch ;)

What's going to fail in a manual? The number of gear tooth or main/countershaft or bearing failures in transmissions of any sort is miniscule. What tends to fail are clutch packs, clutch bands, and in the case of GM autos, the input sprag and originally the sun gear housing, which has to handle pretty much all the loads that go through the transmission. Or, sometimes it will be a pressure accumulator or shift solenoid.

In manuals, the failures that you're going to see are largely syncro related, which typically relates to driver error, or clutch problems. I can't count the number of factory manual transmissions, that with the addition of a stronger clutch, can handle 200-300% of their original factory torque loads. Are they overdesigned to deal with poor drivers? Maybe, but they still work.

Look, as I said, DCTs have a place in the range of automotive tranny choices. I even think I'll own one sooner or later. But in 20 years of vehicle ownership I've never had anything but a clutch go out on a manual transmission. And even without a clutch I can still get home - clutchless shifting is a skill that all drivers should learn :). Rebuilt a Honda 5spd manual after 150k miles because 2nd to 3rd was showing a bit of resistance, but it wasn't broken.

I can't say the same about my experiences with the 3 automatic transmissions I've owned in that time though. And judging by the reported costs, as well as reported issues, with DCTs, I'm not optimistic about where they're at either. I'm willing to accept some foibles if there is a benefit (I don't want to tow 15k lbs with 700 lbs-ft of torque using a clutch for example), but seeing as how 3-5 tenths of a second on a race track isn't a tangible benefit for a street car relative to the cost, weight and reliability concerns, a DCT is not a first choice. I feel like we're getting repetitive now so I'll bow out. Cheers.

My only concern with chipping the GTI engine is of course warranty concerns. Having it done "from the factory" would at least alleviate that concern.

Nice car, numbers and all but to charge $45k-$50k for a 4 banger is criminal and to buy one is plain stupid when there are so many other choices at this price point. According to the Audi website, the S5 starts at 51k while the "prestige" model on this tops at about the same? Makes absolutely no sense to me. I love Audi vehicles, but have never understood why the price gouging on on the 4 bangers. Why pay 50k for this when you can have a 135i for $15k less? Want an AWD 4 banger with more power, get an STI.

@ flwind - Because a 135i is ugly as hell. So is the STI. Because the STI and the S5 have closed roofs (I have a TTS Roadster). Because the S5 is a pig on gas, and is no faster than the TTS. And it doesn't have DCT. Because I wanted a 2 seat, awd, roadster. Because fit and finish on an STI is a joke comapred to the TTS. A loaded S5 goes for $60K. TTS loaded was $53K. Did I mention how ugly the 135i is? The 335 is nicer looking, as long as you don't mind owning a car that is even more common on the road than a Civic.

Have you driven a TTS? 4 Banger and all, it's worth every penny. And I've owned fours, sixes and eights.

stovt001: do it! stage 1 (stock car w/ chip) DSG GTI's are running 13.9 in the 1/4 mile and that is spinning through 1st gear with traction control ON. TTS has traction so it does 13.5, but the seat of the pants feel will be much the same. you know how torquey these cars are, so you can imagine how great it feels...

btrdayz-Dont get me wrong, I love the looks of this car and I'm sure it drives great. I just think the price is waaay out of whack considering the competition from a performance standpoint, that's all. If I could afford 60 large for a car, I wouldn't be concerned with gas prices ;) so the S5 would still get my vote over this.

@flwind - I hear you, bro. I looked at a lot of cars before settling on the TTS Roadster. I looked at a Vette, the S5, M3 Coupe, 370Z and Camaro SS. All great cars with much motor! But, speed enforcement is so great here in NJ, that everytime you get the urge to open that motor up, there's a Trooper with a radar gun hiding somewhere. And with all of these cars, it's quite easy to exceed any given speed limit if you are actually enjoying that motor! I chose not to buy a 1 dimensional car. If the biggest thrill is acceleration, and I can't exploit it without risking my license, then I'm just wasting my money. But a Roadster? In stop and go traffic, I can open the roof and enjoy outside. The DCT lets me shift how I want for any given driving condition. And I love the looks the car gets. AND, it's as fast or right behind most of those big motor cars I mentioned when I do get my speed on. Spending $100 bucks a week on gas because you can might be fun for some folks, but I hate wasting money. There's more I want to do in life that costs $$$ besides filling my car's tank, you know? ;-)

Later!