Toyota Announces Larger Q1 Loss Than GM

I really don't see it as a surprise yet did I expect this large of a loss. For some reason some people have the mentality that Toyota is somehow immune to drastic or substantial market changes when in reality the market doesn't discriminate.

Another reason why being the biggest isn't always the best. That type of thinking must die.

That should have said "I really don't see it as a surprise yet I didn't expect this large of a loss."

Unlike GM and Chrysler, Toyota will survive without massive government intervention. If GM and Chrysler hadn't spent so many decades producing junk instead of desirable, high quality cars then they wouldn't be in the world of hurt they are in now.

Downturns should be allow to weed out weak competitors. I don't want to pay for cars as a taxpayer that I wouldn't pay for as a consumer. Nor should anyone else.

hey Yatesjo, you'd be completely right if you weren't completely wrong.

Toyota has already been discussing the potential for governement bailouts in Japan, well before this news made their bad situation even worse.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,504055,00.html

Busted, Yatesjo! Toyota made tons of money on bloated SUV's, too, just like all the big boys, and now they gotta pay, er, BORROW from the piper. You better start being a fan-boy of Hyundai and Subaru. Small is king!

Now, GM does have its warts, don't get me wrong. I'd like to hear the discussion from the UAW how their prominence in American auto industry presided over a serious decline in quality through the 70's, 80's, and into the 90's. If Union quality is worth a premium, let's see it quantified.

Toyota was making lots of money while at the same time GM and Chrysler were bleeding billions in red ink. Now there is a down turn Toyota is taking losses, but GM and Chrysler are taking massively bigger losses.

Lets think about bailouts from Toyota's perspective... if your biggest competitors are being subsidized by their governments doesn't it put you at a competitive disadvantage if you don't get some cash out of your government? Given a level playing field they will come out of this much stronger.

The point is Toyota could survive on it's own in a weak economy because in a strong economy they made money while GM and Chrysler lost billions.

I'm not a "fan-boy" of any particular brand. Next to my Toyota Sienna is a Subaru Legacy and a Mazda Miata. Forlorn and unwanted in the street with an aging For Sale sign is my POS Ford ZX2 that at this point I'll be elated to get $1000 for.

Im going to agree with the fanboy statements...I wont say you are a toyota fanboy, maybe just a japan freak...but wha-eve...

Chrysler was profitable up until recently. GM has been losing money for a longer period of time, partially because they have been taking on restructing costs. GM was making money earlier in the 2000s just like Toyota.

Toyota's biggest competitors are GM, Ford and VW. Chrysler has nothing to do with it so most of Toyota's top competition is not receiving federal money. Its too early to say Toyota can survive without help- it all depends on how long this lasts. Most experts say if this continues until 2010 almost every automaker is in trouble. GM had over $20B in cash last year- look at them now. Still think Toyota has nothing to worry about? Keep burning through billions a quarter and cash goes QUICK. Even Ford has over $20B in cash and liquid assets and they can only guarantee they can make it until next year without government help.

I really like a lot of the euro brands only my wallet isn't big enough for what I want. I like the looks of the Koreans from a distance, but up close they are usually a disappointment but getting better. As Japanese makers go, I do not like Mitsubishi or Suzuki and am ambivalent about Nissan. My Toyota, Subaru and Mazda cars have been very pleasant ownership experiences- and two of them are built in the US. From the Detroit Three I've had bad experiences with the cars I've owned and not impressed with anything I've seen in a showrooms recently. So that's my fan-boy status.

What you guys seem to overlook, in your eagerness to gloat over Toyota's losses, is that almost all the car makers are suffering, but the US makers have seen much steeper declines in sales and revenues and they weren't very healthy to begin with.

Yatesjo,

The issue is that the popular media has been telling us that Detroit makes poor quality cars and doesn't make cars that people want. After having this shoved at us for years (decades), it's not unreasonable to gloat a little bit at something like this.

I don't think Toyota is a bad company or that they make bad cars. I just think they're severely overrated. We could get into long discussions about their quality. We could get into long discussions about how the #1 automaker in the world until recently (GM) wouldn't have held that position for so long if they weren't making cars people wanted. The point is that it's debatable.

You'll find that most domestic fanboys are really trying to point out that there's nothing wrong with domestics, only to get thrashed upon by popular opinion. How can they not relish a little when news like this comes out?

Well I think we've firmly established that being the biggest car firm at all costs is not the best strategy. I agree with Jederino, small is king. I personally really like Mazda. I also agree that GM did cause many of its own problems, but the quality gap myth and other false perceptions created by the media aren't helping either.

By the way, Toyota isn't just getting support from the Japanese government. The U.S. government heavily subsidizes their U.S. operations as well. Ignorant statements like Yatesjo's that claim only the Detroit manufacturers are getting government handouts are not at all true.

Look nobody wants a Toyota. It's all about Mercedes-Benz. You want reliability? Quality? Luxury? You gotta get a Benz.
The all-new E-class. That's the people's new Camry.

Toyota should burn in a fiery pit of hell. Nothing they make anymore is remotely interesting. They killed the Supra, they killed the Celica, they killed the MRS/MR2...

Well, the IS-F, despite its flaws, can still be called interesting. Even the normal IS is fairly exciting. Maybe it isn't the most sporting, but it is something. However, Toyota generally makes nothing more than passionless and soulless appliances.

"I also agree that GM did cause many of its own problems, but the quality gap myth and other false perceptions created by the media aren't helping either."

Stovt, you're correct with this statement as the media has over amplified the whole quality gap subject to the point of nearly brain washing ignorant consumers. On the contrary, Detroits manufacurers havent always been of high quality (advantage Toyota) as even Bob Lutz mentioned that a few years ago. That was just one of his goals, to bring GM's quality standards to a more competitive level. I can personally say its working as its cleary evident and increasing in more and more of their products.

In recent years the quality gap has become seriously close especially comparing Honda, Toyota, GM and Ford, although I think Honda does a bit better with their smaller cars (Civic/Fit)compared to the domestic or Toyota offerings in that segment. Step into a Cobalt/Focus and then a Civic and the material/build quality standards are obviously in favor of the Civic.

The good part about this is, Ford will bring over the Euro Focus/Fiesta soon and GM will have the Cruze available so its not like they didnt acknowledge the quality gap in this segment didnt exist as both brands are doing something about it. I commend both GM and Ford for stepping up to the plate and offering better products as it will make other manufacturers do the same. Good competition makes a better product, its as simple as that.

"However, Toyota generally makes nothing more than passionless and soulless appliances."

For the most part, yes, Toyotas are generally boring to drive and offer little tactile anything. Evidently, (proven by their success) there are a lot of consumers who arent enthusiasts as we (the enthusiasts) unfortunately make up only a small percentage of the buying public. I think Toyota tried too hard to be everything to everyone and went for mass market appeal rather than injecting their products with characterstics everyone can enjoy or could relate to. Of course going mainstream has more potential to gain more market share faster, have substantially higher profits and faster growth. However, there is a bad side to SUPER quick growth as a substantial market change can cause serious profit losses among other things which has been proven by the current market crisis. To look at in from all directions, a negative market change will hamper all maufactures, some worse than others however.

I for one dont care for Toyota products (even though my father is a Toyota/Lexus product planner) as I dont like the way the company was founded as the foundation for the company was to make the Japanese government rich. For the most part, Toyota has always been about high profits and great marketing. I just dont see the passion behind that.

Sure, Toyota products have the "reliability reputation" (and thats been tarnished over the last few years) but in a market where every manufacturer has substantially increased in that area, what makes Toyota products REALLY stand out? Simply relying on one area (reliability) wont make the product superior especially when other manufacturers have and are stepping up their game while also posessing certain characteristics (styling, tactility, driving experience, performance ETC ETC) that give the brand an advantage. I'm not saying Toyota products are bad but I dont believe in putting all your eggs in one basket.

My admiration for Honda stems from the founders (Soichiro Honda) dream(s), his passion, relentless determination and simple yet innovative approach to engineering. To add to that, Honda has a rich and successful motorpsorts heritage (which is somewhat delivered in all of their products although at vastly different levels) which I value. I also admire Honda as they arent driven by just profits alone, there is "life" in (the majority) of their products and I admire the fact they sometimes take a different approach to product execution or think outside the box. Also, you can feel the Honda DNA in all their products, new or old. That family "connection" is important to me and enthusiasts alike.

Sure Honda has to make money to keep the lights on but thats not the only thing that drives them to produce the products they develop. I cant say that about Toyota.

Is it me, or is the automobile becoming an endangered species?

HA4, I really like your attitude and insights. I appreciate that while you're a fan of Honda (for good reason) you can praise other brands, see the good in them, and have no problem with other people liking something else.

"HA4, I really like your attitude and insights. I appreciate that while you're a fan of Honda (for good reason) you can praise other brands, see the good in them, and have no problem with other people liking something else."

Well thanks Stovt, I just wish people could be a bit more open minded and not so blind as to recognizing a good product regardless of country of origin or brand. There are a lot of great cars out there, import and domestic.

Unfortunately, Ive ran into many import fans (Toyota/Honda) who think whatever these 2 brands churn out that its far superior in every respect. That kind of oulook is just ignorant, pointless, biased and unfair. Ive met countless domestic fans (usually the muscle car heads) that bash the imports into shreds because they offer a different kind of product. I get tired of hearing that Hondas are torqueless when compared to large displacement V8's. It goes both ways and ignorance is the foundation unfortunately.

Sure I love Honda's for the reason above and for their corporate structuring, smart business practices, core philosophy and the fact that the engineers pretty much run the show, however, Im not so blinded that I cant see that Honda isnt perfect. My frustration with Honda currently is with their hesitation to implement 6AT's and more useful, proven efficient technologies such as direct injection, and the fact that Acura portfolio is all out of wack.

On another note, I really hope the domestic manufactures can resurface in a more healthy, efficient, lean light as I couldnt imagine the auto segment without them as they've been true pioneers. Id rather see them stay as they certainly proven to be able to give good competition for other brands. We all know good competition makes everything better in the end.