Prius-Driving, Millionaire Actor Says Let the Big Three Die

^ He's got you there.

And even if what he's saying is a bit extreme, he has a legitimate point. Toyota might've made their profits selling SUVs & pickups, but unlike their domestic counterparts, they NEVER abandoned efficient automobiles. Ford & GM are just now getting around to building truly excellent cars, and Chrysler is nowhere near that (which is odd given the number of awards they won for cars in the '90s).

Gee, now the far left has discovered Adam Smith's invisible hand. . .

1. Mr. Baldwin is clearly clueless on this topic.
2. He has the right to advertise his ignorance by voicing his opinion.
3. The author has the right, if not the moral duty, to call out Mr. Baldwin's fallacious and uneducated opinion.

Why is it that some people think that "freedom of speech" is only for those with outrageously stupid opinions?

Never let it be said that money and priviledges equal smarts. It would do all the Detroit hating people to remember that without te manufacturing base provided by the auto industry, there wouldn't be any excess income to waste on movies and star idolization.

Read: Books by Everett E. Rupert at your bookstore now!!

Another point, for the small car Nazies is this: unlike many countries, oil was never at a premium in the U.S, Canada and Australia, and so the populance became used to getting bigger, more powerful cars. If you think for one minute the American buyer is suddenly going to abandon his/her vehicles of choice en masse for for wheeled door stops,well...

Yes, Toyota never abandoned fuel efficiency because the Japanese gov has bankrolled all their R&D for the Pruis, tariffed any foreign competitor out of reach for the avg buyer, provided export subsidies, national healthcare AND national retirement. No wonder they were making record profits...Detroit's made mistakes, obviously, but no other country in the world protects, promotes and subsidizes their auto companies like Japan.

That's a bunch of unsubstantiated crap that Toyota would have gone under with out truck and StupidUselessVehicle sales to keep them going. The Corolla is their best selling vehicle, and the Camry is the best selling sedan in America. The Prius has been a tremendous success for them too. Let's not forget about the initial success of the Scion line. I lost a lot of respect for Toyota jumping on the truck and SUV bandwagon, but they would have been just fine if they hadn't.

Honda has one SUV and one truck in it's portfolio and they're not begging for money. Mazda was mostly a small car/sporty car company until the CX7 and CX9 and they're not looking for handouts. Hyundai has zero pickup trucks and two SUV's in their lineup and you don't see them looking for handouts. Even the Japanese companies who do have a larger portfolio of SUV and trucks (Nissan, and Subaru come to mind) still focused plenty of attention on their small, fuel efficient vehicles. Unlike the American car companies who treated the few small and fuel efficient cars in their portfolio like an afterthought, the Japanese lavished the same amount of attention on them as they did their trucks and SUV's.

No company is too big to fail, but our incredibly inept government thinks otherwise, at the tax payers expense! So much for capitalism, I guess we only like it when it's convenient, but when things go bad, hey, let's embrace socialism to get us out of this mess!

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. I agree let them die.

DGS4, as geemail stated above, the Japanese government has supported their auto industry far more than ours has. It doesn't make any amount right, but it puts this in context and takes a lot of innocence away from the Japanese auto makers. Many anti-bailout commentators hold up the Japanese companies as models of free-market forces, and that is not at all anywhere close to approaching the truth. The Detroit automakers got the least amount of support in this very government dependent industry, and that contributed to many (but not all) of their problems.

The two Chrysler cars I owned were crap. The top cars for dependability are typically Toyota, Honda, sometimes Buick, and Lexus. My friends that drive Chevys take their cars to the mechanic more than someone with a 40-year-old Porsche.

You make crap cars you need to change things STARTING FROM THE TOP.

inlinesix, that is a very outdated view on quality. In case you missed it, Toyota did a dramatic nosedive in dependability in the past few years (bad camshafts, trannies, tailgates, seatbelts, airbags, and TPMS units are the big complaints) with Honda also showing a few holes in the armor. At the same time most domestic cars, excluding most Chrysler products, have increased dramatically in reliability. They haven't exactly swapped places, but the gap just doesn't exist anymore. Most mainstream manufacturers now make cars that have about the same reliability.

I've taken my Chevy in once for a problem that wasn't normal wear, maintenance, or dealer foul-up, and that was fixed in 10 minutes with great service. My grandma, on the other hand, takes her 2 year old Toyota in to get the same exact problem fixed every month.

+1 to carchief.

I totally agree. American auto makers have been so outperformed for so long by their european and japanese counterparts,that just relying on the profits made on SUV s, pick ups and minivans will not be enough to keep them afloat. The lack of vision and technological competitiveness, not to mention inferior quality will not prevent them from their own extinction unless they reinvent themselves in order to be able to survive in the 21 century auto industry...

Ok. American cars may be getting better but the damage has been done. American car manufacturers have made very lackluster cars in my opinion and I have not had really good experiences with any. Now I have not owned a Corvette.

I now have an IS300 and a Mercedes and have owned some other of all brands for the last 15 years I have spent more time/money fixing mediocre boring American cars. Its not an outdated view Stov001, at least in my experience and I love cars. I would buy all American cars but even the Tundra I had was SO MUCH better than a Ford or Dodge.

Last year I rented a Chevy Impala, 2008, with less than 1000 miles. It broke the first day. It had an issue with the RF wheel bearing. I clunked down the road like it had a flat. They car rental company took it back and brought me a Hyundai Sonata (also 2008). The Hyundai was more fun to drive, it had more power in the base model, it felt better constructed and it didn't break on me (dont tell the rental company but I really drove the crap out of that car)

If ford can build a car that can compete in style with a C300 mercedes or Chrysler can build a car with the solid construction of a Honda Accord. I will buy them again.

Can't compete! Die.

I am holding out on what Prince has to say about my 401K and home mortgage rates

"Why can't actors just stuck to acting?"

EXACTLY! Why people lay creedence in what actors think is beyond me. And, by the way. It's more like the big one the medium one and the small one when it comes to our automakers. And the medium one, Ford, is the only one that has been taking care of business to stay viable.

this will not make his union buddies very happy.

"What bars people with opinions from expressing them?"

The opinions are stupid.

The Toyota worshippers are out in force undulging in fanatasies. When did GM or Ford EVER stop producing small cars? Just let me know for the record. Toyota was always better at small cars because THATS WHAT THEY MADE SENSE THE BEGINNING. Japan isnt known for open roads and V8 engines, its known for small cars with good mileage and mediocre performance. This is why Toyota came to the US with much more small car experience than US automakers.

Toyota makes profits from trucks, SUVS and Lexus models. Not from the Corolla or Yaris. The reason why few hybrids and subcompacts are built in the US is because those models would not be profitable with US labor/healthcare costs. It has nothing to do with unions either because Toyota wont even build Scions or the Yaris here with their non union workers.

"Can't compete! Die. "

Can't compile thoughtful sentence! Shut up.

InlineL:

Basing quality perceptions on a beat up rental is beyond stupid. I notice domestic bashers who claim to be experts on domestic quality get 99% of their anecdotal evidence from rental cars. My parents have had an Impala for 14 months and have had zero problems. The car had 9k miles on it when they got it and now has over 20k. I just drove a Scion xB and its as cheap and half assed as any Caliber or Cobalt. Hard plastics, flashing everywhere, cheap switchgear and a pathetic stereo. If automakers should go out of business for making mediocre product Scion should be shut down tomorrow.

"If ford can build a car that can compete in style with a C300 mercedes or Chrysler can build a car with the solid construction of a Honda Accord. I will buy them again. "

Ford has the fusion out now and the Taurus will be out within a month or two. Both look as good as a C300 to my eyes. They are far cheaper as well. The Accord interior and build quality are par for the class, nothing more nothing less. I'm not a huge 300 fan but its certainly built as well as any Accord. I had a rental charger a few years back and found no glaring interior issues.

BTW, the base engine in the Impala makes 211hp vs 172 for the Sonata.

Also, the Tundra is currently the worst pickup on the market save the Titan. All of the domestic entries are better in terms of styling, interior quality, optional equipment and fuel economy. The Tundra's interior is by far the worst of any large pickup. Toyota should be embarassed.

"EXACTLY! Why people lay creedence in what actors think is beyond me. And, by the way. It's more like the big one the medium one and the small one when it comes to our automakers. And the medium one, Ford, is the only one that has been taking care of business to stay viable."

Zoom, you're doing the same thing Baldwin did: posting to a blog. The difference - Edmunds grabbed the online posting and posted it here too. HuffingtonPost is simply a blog - like Engadget.com or Straightline Blog.

mboton:

Who has more hybrids between Ford and Nissan? How about GM and Nissan? How about GM and Honda?

GM has more direct injection engines than Nissan, Honda, Toyota and Hyundai combined.

Ford and GM have a sizable lead over Honda and Hyundai when it comes to 6 speed automatics.

Ford is currently rolling out Ecoboost models with DI and turbos. Where are comparable engines from Honda or Toyota?

GM's new 3L V6 makes more hp/L than any V6 offered by Toyota, Nissan or Honda.

Most efficient small SUV: Ford
Most efficient midsize sedan: Ford
Most efficient large pickup: Ford/GM
Only hybrid pickup: GM
Most efficient large SUV: GM
Most efficient minivanL Chrysler

Yeah, they are way behind in technology. Why don't you provide some specific examples next time.

"Zoom, you're doing the same thing Baldwin did: posting to a blog. The difference - Edmunds grabbed the online posting and posted it here too. HuffingtonPost is simply a blog - like Engadget.com or Straightline Blog."

We assume the people that blog here would know something about cars. The fact is Baldwin knows nothing about cars and apparently is incapable of visiting the EPA's site to compare the mileage ratings of foreign and domestic vehicles. That alone means his opinions about cars are worthless. He might as well blog about nuclear physics next.

While I drive an infiniti, I am very impressed with GM's DI V6, and the inline-4 turbo found in the Cobalt SS. These engines seem superior to the foreign offerings, in terms of performance and economy. I also have high hopes for the Ford Fusion hybrid.

Those in the know would not count the Americans out in terms of technology and competetive ability!

Inline, basing an opinion on quality from a rental car is entirely invalid. For all you know they could have just gotten the other car the day before but had the Impala for two years. You yourself said you drove it harshly. Now imagine everyone doing that and worse for two years...you get the idea.

I actually own an American car. Until recently, my family owned nothing but American cars. My parents just traded their Ford and GMC in for Mazdas, which are very nice too. Anyway, all of our American cars (except for my dad's Explorer, and he abuses the crap out of his cars) have been the epitome of reliability. I've had my Cobalt for 3 years with only two very minor issues. My sister has had her Saturn for 9 years and just recently started having clunky shifts from the transmission. My mom's Ford Escape did start having a number of problems after 8 years, so I guess you can chalk that up as a bit of a reliability miss. My dad had his Envoy for 5 years, no problem, and he put a ton of miles on it and like I said does not drive his cars gently. My grandma owned a Saturn, and it was fine until a motor mount came loose. She decided that was a sign that all American cars were crap, so she bought a Toyota. It goes into the shop every month to have the exact same problem refixed and refixed and refixed, but she is still convinced Toyotas are the epitome of reliability. So no one can tell me American cars aren't at least as good as Japanese cars.

1487. SHUT UP.

Haha

many people have their opinion. Many of us here are attack Baldwin for his comment. It is true actor should stick with what they do best "acting". However, if you really look into the big 3 for past 20 years what have they done to protect their Brands, Loyal Customers like "By 1487", and enviroment. I am asking the big 3 to be the greenest company. But at least compete with others. For example Ford Europe is doing well, and GM China is doing. Let's take look at why it happens that way. One thing and one thing that is most important. They build cars that fit people's needs and budget. The Big 3 in US need to realize consumers had change their taste of cars.

Baldwin's opinion is stupid because he is stating the obvious.

1487 is right. The big 3 make the best cars in the US market.

It is YOUR fault that Chrysler, GM and Ford are bankraupt, going to be, or in big debt.

Shame on you American Consumer!!!

"1487. SHUT UP."

You first.

"1487 is right. The big 3 make the best cars in the US market.

It is YOUR fault that Chrysler, GM and Ford are bankraupt, going to be, or in big debt. "

Never said best cars. Instead of offering any thoughtful rebuttal you try to mock me by exaggerating my points. Someone said they were behind in technology. The facts say otherwise- period. Feel free to attack what I'm saying but if you have some actual facts to dispute my position that would be nice as well. I do agree that Americans who are more willing to buy mediocre product from Japan or Korea than they are top notch product from America (you are likely one) are a big part of this problem. People like you swear you hate domestic cars because you refuse to embrace mediocrity when the reality is you will love any and every mediocre vehicle with a foreign badge. HOw else can you explain the US auto media trying to defend and praise Scion products? If Scions were made by Chevy or Ford they would called out for being nothing but cheap econo boxes with cheap interiors.

"Baldwin's opinion is stupid because he is stating the obvious. "

I would suggest that anyone who buys into his simplistic understanding of the automotive world and shares his inability to spend 10 minutes researching fuel economy ratings is "stupid". What do you think? I find it interesting that we have folks defending his indefensible position even though we could easily clear this up by comparing the mileage of domestic and import models.

stov1:

See the problem with offering your experiences to people like inline6, banhugh or any others is that whatever you say about reliability of American cars will be deemed unacceptable. If you say an Escape was problem free for 8 years they will simply say "thats it? My Hondas were problem free for 12 years". If you say your vehicles last until 80k miles without major issues they will say Hondas last until 180k miles with nothing but oil changes.

I know someone with a 2002 Maxima that just had its catylic converter replaced and numerous other repairs that have totalled nearly $3000. The car doesn't even have 100k miles yet. I'm sure Alec Baldwin has an explanation for that.

The Hunt for Red October was a good movie, let's not forget that.

...oh wait we're talking about cars?

Banhugh is actually kinda right, even though he meant to be sarcastic. As evidenced by the comments on Edmunds and elsewhere, no matter how good they make their products, no matter how reliable they are, no matter how little efforts the imports put out, Americans have made up their minds and won't change them. Part of it is understandable - buying a car is a big investment so you want to go with a safe, known route, but the evidence for class competitive or class leading quality, reliability, and efficiency from Ford and GM is there, and the evidence against Honda's and Toyota's stranglehold on those areas is piling up fast. I wonder if years of bad experiences with imports will eventually add up and people will wake up, but given the state of denial from people like my grandma and people here, I doubt it. People will go on excusing faults from cars just because they were good in the past, and ignoring quality in cars just because they were bad in the past. Illogical, but what can you expect? As a car enthusiast, I think it is a real shame to ignore stellar vehicles just because of an outdated bias against a certain manufacturer. We stand to miss out on so much, and stand to be inundated with uninspired appliances because we'll blindly heap praise on Honda and Toyota no matter what they do.

1487: I bought a 2009 Honda Civic 3 months back. It has 5k miles on it. So far I haven't had any problems with the car and the MPG is excellent (30 mpg combined).
My experience with the Civic is that it is a loud car and not very refined. I wouldn't expect more from a compact but I did expect more from a Honda. The transmission makes a noice when downshifting and the engine has hesitated upon igniting it. It makes the impression of poor combustion and then it magically corrects itself.
Overall what I'm trying to say is that my Honda experience has not been absent of imperfections but I still don't think that ALL IMPORTS are crap or vice versa.

This guy looks like he knows more about mac & cheese than macroeconomics. Why doesn't Mr. Baldwin call his daughter a pig again and keep his nose out of politics.

Stov1 and 1487 and all others that failed to read my previous posts accurately or at all:

I will not BASE my opinion of American cars on a rental. Its just another scenario that makes me think they are not as good. I also said the rental had less than 1,000 miles on it and it broke in hours. The Hyundai was also a no-frills v6 which has 249 horses vs the larger displacement v6 in the Chevy impala with only 211 horses.

I have had several American made cars. They were no total crap but in my opinion they do not have the soul of a Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, or Honda (driven an S2000 lately).

So yes in my humble opinion I have enjoyed driving Asian and European cars much more than American cars. Obviously others share my opinion because the big three have not held their own even in the U.S.

So again it doesn't matter if anyone disagrees, I am one of many buyers that will not buy a mediocre American-made car because it is American.

The few on this blog that think I have lost my damn mind: The Civic is the best selling vehicle in America according to US NEWS.

Honda Civic Now America's Best-Selling Vehicle
Posted: Jun. 04, 2008 12:06 p.m.

1487: You are way off.

My 2005 Merc C230 Sport has had two problems in the two months of ownership. But I can't find a better looking car in that price range that can handle a corner with such charisma--stock.

People such as Stov can offer me their experiences and I like to read others opinions. But there is no denying American cars have lost ground to the majority of buyers for some reason.

And I'll fully admit that they lost ground for darn good reasons. Many of their products from the mid 70s even until the mid 2000s were inferior. There were real gems in there, but they didn't make the best cars. I absolutely grant that. I just think it is a shame that now that they are building truly competitive, really interesting cars no one wants to hear about it.

Close-mindedness annoys me, especially when it comes to cars. It irks me to hear people say "oh, I'd never look at an American car". Well how will they ever know if things have changed if they aren't open to experiencing that change? I really hope Honda builds the CR-Z and proves that hybrids can be fun and sporty for the same reason. Few things feel better than a cynical stereotype proven false.

Inlinesix, I can appreciate your reasons listed in the most recent responses as to why you chose what you do (soul and charisma) but those are very subjective requirements. I find Lexus to have less soul than anything else out there, along with most Toyota appliances. And that is why having the maximum number of brands to choose from is good for consumers and killing off GM brands completely is bad.

"Zoom, you're doing the same thing Baldwin did: posting to a blog."

Hey, blueguy. Um, that's what this link is for. Ditto to you. The fact remains is that Actors somehow feel compelled to think that their input on life somehow surpasses or at least is a beacon for everyone else's. Easy for them to think, what being rich and all. And then, of course, there are people a plenty that feed that monster.

stovt

I fall into the category you speak of in your second paragraph: the many years of bad american cars has tainted my view of them and I don't consider them when looking at cars regardless of current information. There are many americans with this point of view, and also many americans in muscle-car generation who won't buy foreign. Bias exists - and I'll admit mine.

As for finding great cars that are american made - I rent a car every week and about 1/2 the time I get an american made car. They're nice, comfortable and do the job well. For some reason I just don't consider them on my list of dream cars.

I am probably the in the class of american consumer that needs to revisit the big 3's offerings to accurately determine if they can build a 2 seater sports coupe that stirs my soul.

my 2-cents
Kevin

"Close-mindedness annoys me, especially when it comes to cars. It irks me to hear people say "oh, I'd never look at an American car". Well how will they ever know if things have changed if they aren't open to experiencing that change?"

I know right?! I feel the same way about microwaves.

My friend thinks that Swirlypool microwaves suck because a few years ago his blew up and threw chunks of spaghetti across the kitchen. He got scalded by the delicious flying mess and has vowed ever since to never buy Swirlypool. He's fine except for a nasty scar but nowadays he's only interested in that "jap crap".

He thinks that Swirlypool doesn't know how to make microwaves! Can you believe that?! Ridiculous!

So in the intervening years I've been trying to convince him to buy Swirlypool again! I care that much about microwaves!

I've tried EVERYTHING:
I've called him unpatriotic (Why do you hate America so much? etc.);
I've tried to tell him that Swirlypool finally knows how to make microwaves;
I accused his Panaspeed of having no soul (even though I have no idea what that means in the context of a machine lol);
I explained to him that Swirlypool microwaves are an American icon (even though it's actually built in Mexico ~_o);
I told him I think his Panaspeed is ugly.

Nothing will work! He's so closed-minded (about microwaves no less!). What should I do?!

I mean he OWES it to Swirlypool to try their products again right?

Hahahaha!!! I think that it is so funny to watch Hollywood Stars make fun of themselves on a daily basis. Go right ahead and use feedom of speech because I'm sittin here with the popcorn laughin it up....anyone is welcome to join me.

If I stand up and say 'Let the big 2.5 die', a couple of folks might agree, a couple may disagree -big deal, I'm a regular Joe, not a celebrity. If Alec Baldwain says it, he gets an article written about it. Neither Alec Baldwin nor I have any more ability than each other to bring about their demise. You, me, Alec Baldwin and any other celeb with an opinion are all equally entitled to express them.

On the fate of the Chrysler & GM, here's mine:

Successful businesses thrive, weak ones die. It's capitalism. What we have with the government bailouts of GM and Chrysler is very simply a form of corporate welfare. Aren't there about a million better things to do with $40B than keeping alive the companies that brought us the Aztec and the Caliber ?

The government may be able to use taxes collected from you and me to keep these stinking corpses on life support, but they can't force anyone to buy their cars. I for one am now even less likely to do so, and I am far from alone.

Pull the plug, put them out of their misery.

That's funny. GM has been building some of the most fuel efficient vehicles in their respected classes for many years. Ford and Chrysler have been about average in that respect. The problem with the Big 3 has been and somewhat still is QUALITY.

Baldwin should just retire and stay away from the cameras.

my opinion of why Chrysler is dying...they can't make their most stripped down cars comfortable. I rented a PT cruiser, that was pretty bad but at least the seats were comfortable. I also drove a sebring rental, my back was hurting after 20 min of driving it. as a consumer, this doesn't make me want to go to a chrysler dealer. their cars are too stripped down when they make it to rental fleets