General Motors hasn't made the list of 1,124 rejected dealers
public, but the Huffington Post
is keeping track and you can find the working list here
. Meanwhile, someone at the New York Times
went to the trouble of creating an interactive map
for all 789 doomed Chrysler dealers.
In addition, Max Fraad Wolff, a writer for the Huffington Post, has written a dark but compelling column on the GM-Chrysler situation. He refuses to lay the blame solely on the automakers, the union, the large banks, the bondholders (aka "the speculators) or the Obama administration and its automotive taskforce.
Snippet: Chrysler bondholders were offered 29 cents on the dollar with greater offers being made to the UAW employee trust despite its being a lesser creditor in standard Chapter 11 proceedings. Thus, this group had nothing to lose but Obama tongue-lashing if they refused the deal. They did refuse and the tongue-lashing came full of statements about those unwilling to make sacrifice. The political game is to blame another party -- perhaps with good reason -- for the ultimate bankruptcy. Public relations theater has gotten all the attention. We should be looking at the destruction of a region, an industry and the shocking lack of industrial policy.
Snippet: We so completely lack an industrial policy that we are presently working to spend money to maintain our car market while decimating US domestic car producers. Perhaps the goal is to be the first developed country with neither significant American car production nor, public transit?
Whether you agree or not, Wolff's column is well worth the 5 minutes it takes to read.
Huffington Post: Max Fraad Wolff: Car-Nage or Industrial Policy?
estreka says:
06:17 PM, 05/15/09
I don't think you can simply institute an "industrial policy" and call it good. I don't think there's any magical solution that'll fix everything that's wrong with our industrial might. We've been undergoing an industrial waning for decades. It didn't just pop up a few months ago. Yes, we are frightfully inept at production, but the reason we have bigger reasons for our problems:
1. Our labor costs have soared in the past 10-15 years. We're so used to getting our automatic 3-5% raise each year that we've become overpaid.
2. The biggest aspect, however, is health costs. When folks are paying over 20% of their entire net pay toward medical care, employers must pay more, otherwise there isn't much point in working.
3. Another skyrocketing cost is education. Honestly, much of the educated public is overeducated. We don't need bachelor degrees for every management job out there. We certainly don't need MBAs for middle management. For the vast majority of jobs out there, a vocational or technical degree would suffice. But we insist on getting that 4-year degree and employers insist on paying a premium for those graduates. Pay folks for what they're really worth!
4. On the flip side of #3, companies are scared to hire well-qualified professionals (read: PhDs). People are scared to get doctorates because nobody will hire them. The reason the Germans and the Japanese build such exceptional cars is because they hire the best. Sure, R&D expenses are a little higher, but the product is worth it. In America, the only industry that does that is aerospace and defense (both booming industries).
stephen987 says:
06:27 PM, 05/15/09
It would've been more interesting to map the dealerships remaining. Why were there so many in West Virginia in the first place???
One other thing: has it occurred to you, Estreka, that people get college degrees for some reason OTHER THAN to get a job? Perhaps to become more complete individuals, rather than dittoheads who blindly think as they're told?
stephen987 says:
06:27 PM, 05/15/09
It would've been more interesting to map the dealerships remaining. Why were there so many in West Virginia in the first place???
One other thing: has it occurred to you, Estreka, that people get college degrees for some reason OTHER THAN to get a job? Perhaps to become more complete individuals, rather than dittoheads who blindly think as they're told?
stephen987 says:
06:29 PM, 05/15/09
sorry for the duplicate post--site lag!
estreka says:
06:30 PM, 05/15/09
Absolutely, and that's fine. But I don't think you need a college education to develop yourself as a well-rounded person.
stovt001 says:
09:26 PM, 05/15/09
estreka has some truth to his assertion. I just graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Business Economics, but most entry level jobs I've seen are looking for an MBA. True, there are plenty of very educated, very experienced managers out there willing to take any job, even if it is entry level, but that requirement is just insane.
Really, the vast majority of jobs don't need college degrees. Experience and talent count for so much more. College education is fine for technical occupations like engineering, or advanced things like law, medicine, and ministry. For everyone else, a liberal arts education is great for developing the whole person but not necessary for doing a good job.
Also, for point #4, I stated at graduation that I was interested in getting my PhD because I want to teach and write about economics, and everyone told me that would be career suicide. I fear they are right. U.S. economic, health, and education policy and attitudes are screwed up all over. Industrial policy is just one facet of it.
cwc1 says:
11:48 AM, 05/16/09
People have become conditioned that getting a college degree is the minimum they need for earning a good income, and that working for someone else is just what you're supposed to do. It has been drilled into our society for years. But that's not always the case, depending on the occupation one chooses.
But what is rarely addressed is the value of the supposed education one receives in college. Does it really need to cost what it does? There was a time when people who went to college could pay for it themselves, without having to go into tens of thousands of dollars in debt for many years. In the '50s, my dad paid about $25.00 in tuition per semester, and he said that was affordable back then.
Even when adjusted for inflation, college tuition has risen faster than peoples' ability to pay for it. Yet all the political solutions have involved making it easier for students to acquire more and more debt in order to pay the exorbitant cost. Market economics have been taken out of it, and that's the problem.
Why don't we have people clamoring for a reform of our secondary education system, much as we continue to hear about the need for health care reform? Because the institutions involved in education have a vested interest in preserving their perks and bloated systems, and have the favor of politicians who want to sustain it. It is much like the labor unions in the auto industry.
stovt001 says:
03:09 PM, 05/16/09
CWC1, free market forces have had a large role in pushing college education costs up. Parents and students are demanding more and more luxuries as part of the college education experience. The concept of "poor starving college student" is lost on so many people now. My wife works in college admissions. At one point her job was to give tours of the campus to prospective students and families. The university she works at is relatively low cost for a private institution, so they don't have many frivolities. So many parents questioned where the cable hookups in the dorms were. Some were aghast that their child would not be provided maid service. I had a simple college experience. I cleaned my own place (sorta, or it didn't get cleaned at all) did my own laundry, and lived on ramen noodles. Unfortunately, that isn't good enough for today's princes and princesses whose mommies and daddies will buy them anything they want.
charlesb says:
05:05 PM, 05/16/09
Headline: College education debate engulfs car forum.
Clearly the education system is broken, like a lot of systems we have in this country. Unfortunately, I don't think a vetting of the dubious finances and cost-benefit analysis of college is going to get hashed out here.
Ramen noodles and toilet brush duty isn't the solution for the problems faced by the "royalty" haunting the halls of institutions of higher learning.
cwc1 says:
10:37 PM, 05/16/09
"So many parents questioned where the cable hookups in the dorms were. Some were aghast that their child would not be provided maid service."
I'm aghast. Sounds like the parents have seriously been spoiling their kids and leaving them totally unprepared for the world once they leave the shelter of their parents. Or, perhaps the parents were surprised they weren't getting more perks for their huge cash outlay.
zoomzoomn says:
07:01 AM, 05/18/09
This will likely piss some people off. GM deserves to be in the trouble it is in. They have had at least two decades with which to react to a long changing environment.
Ford saw the writing on the wall and around 2003 started planning for it. By 2006 they were in full swing on their (not all too popular) plans that included eliminating many dealers, consolidating operations and combining L/M/F dealers into one location whenever possible. This meant the elimination of jobs on the manufacturer level and job losses on the dealer side.
In addition, they started working on their product line severely aware that it needed an overhaul. GM has simply done too little and much too late. They knew five years ago that they had labor issues that had been piling on them starting in the seventies that were becoming terminal. It's easy to say that hindsight is 20/20, but we've been hearing that, with few exceptions, the domestic auto industry has been floundering for three decades. So, frankly, it is simply a sad state of affairs. Sadly, typical of current coporate America.