Inside Line Technology Review: 2009 Acura TL

A V8 engine and a wizzbang radio? Now all it needs is a serious nose job and we're in business!

Honda is adding cylinders while everyone else is removing them? Is this bizarro world?

Why don't you just add a diesel? That's the direction the TL should be taking.

nf

600 voice commands? You have to wonder how well it can really distinguish those.

Well, even though Honda's adding cylinders, it's going to make sure you can keep most off while not in use to achieve optimal fuel efficiency. I heard Honda's already doing that with the upcoming NSX.

I am not sure about how Edmunds does the stereo review, but i wonder if they test the sound quality at every seating position??

For example, i heard so many good things about the ELS system in Acuras. I went to my local dealer to check out the '09 TSX w/ TECH pkg. I came in with high hopes because i am in the market.

Unfortunately, i was disappointed...really bad! Yeah, from the driver's seat, it was good. I actually found the sound to be better in the TL (2008 model, not the new one) because the TL had tweeters firing upward into the windshield which made imaging and staging better/wider. However, once i jumped to the rear seat, it was painfully evident that ELS is poorly designed.

BTW, when i tested the TSX and TL system, i set everything to "0" (bass, treble, balance, fade).

TSX system has 10 speakers i believe:
3 in front (2 tweets on doors, 1 center channel)
2 woofers in front doors
2 woofers in rear doors
2 small speakers on rear deck
1 subwoofer

If you sit in the rear bench, then you will notice that most (90% of sound) is coming from the BACK of your head! Those woofers on the rear doors BARELY makes any sound. The rear deck speakers dominate the sound. What kind of hi-fi 5.1 system is this?!! I thought that "every seating position is the best seat in the house"??? Essentially, the rear door woofers are there for show only. In addition, the bass from the subwoofer was causing vibration and thumping in the rear seatback...very annoying for rear passengers! Remember, i set my bass to 0 (zero) and it caused this much vibration and pounding! It is clearly not insulated well...or the rear seat is flimsy. So, the rear passengers are getting half-assed sound from the back of their heads along with vibration in their seatback. No sound is coming from the front to balance out.

This rear seat experience is the same in the TL. Again, this was with the 2008 TL, not the new one.

My conclusion...ELS is a poorly designed system that uses the "ELS" name to wow the general public...but does not have much susbstance. It is mainly designed for the front passengers with no regard for the rear. (I have no idea why Acura/ELS even put speakers in the rear doors for if they are not going to use it.)

Recently, i tested the Toyota Avalon JBL system. It is a MUCH BETTER system overall and truly represents "all seats are the best in the house" concept.

I sincerely hope that Edmunds test the car sound system at EVERY seat in the car, not just the front.

Well that's good and all... I don't plan on sitting in the back seat of my own car...

I heard the system in the new '09 TL (I own a 2005)and I was very impressed... the bass registers way lower than I expected it to for a factory system... I'm 41 years old so I'm done with the "loud" systems.. I used to compete back in the day and now I just want a system that replicates the full sound range... I had to add a 12-inch subwoofer and amp to my '05 to get this sound, but the sub-sub bass (the Jurassic Park Bass) sounded great, and the upper bass needed more punch, but I'm sure that it can be adjusted to taste by the owner...

I haven't heard the Avalon system yet, so I won't comment

I have to say that intmed99 hit the nail dead on head with the ELS stereo evaluation. I just bought a new 2008 TL Type-S 6mt in March and I am very dissappointed with the audio quality. The ELS system was one of the major selling points on this car, it ranked right up there with the 6-speed manaual transmission. There are numorous issues with this system. The 1st issue I have is the lack of Bass/ tump. With the volume set all they way to the highest level 40, the Bass is almost non existant. This is my 1st non Nissan product and I am a music junkie so i have no problem checking the option box for the best stereo. In my opinion my Bose Audio systems in my 2002 Maxima and my 2006 Altima SE-R 6mt are much better. The second issue I have is I thought this was suppose to be suuround sound from what I can tell it appears that the two front door woofers are doing all the work nothing comes from the top tweets and the rear shelf speakers are not much better. Lastly there is big difference in sound quality when switching from say a CD to XM radio the quality with XM is horrible. I have taken it to the dealer and they say this is normal but I've been in BMW's with Sirrus and Infiniti's with XM and there is no difference when switching from CD to satelite radio. Over all I give this system a 6 on a 10 point scale.

The ELS system was designed to work best with DVD-A discs which I doubt any of you used. Ive found the ELS systems to be pretty much top notch and everything Ive read from the press pretty much said the same thing. To be honest Ive never heard anything bad about the ELS systems until I read the posts here.

"In my opinion my Bose Audio systems in my 2002 Maxima and my 2006 Altima SE-R 6mt are much better."

Youve got to be kidding! Bose is nothing but a name, thats about it. I for one have never been impressed with any Bose car stereo system (in any car) simply because of the ease of distortion and average sound quality. Bose doesnt even make the speakers (which are paper) or the head units (Pioneer ?). The Bose system in my 2003 Acura CL Type-S 6MT is garbage and has been from day 1.

"With the volume set all they way to the highest level 40, the Bass is almost non existant."

Thats to protect the components. The ELS stereos arent the only ones that do it. Most if not all factory offerings do the same thing and have for years. Who (and why) listens to any stereo at its highest volume level setting?

"The 1st issue I have is the lack of Bass/ thump."

Given the cars target demographic I highly doubt the ELS system was designed with super heavy bass in mind. If you want a heavier thumper there are aftermarket offering available. The ELS was clearly designed with clarity and sound quality in mind which it provides.

"Recently, I tested the Toyota Avalon JBL system. It is a MUCH BETTER system overall and truly represents "all seats are the best in the house" concept."

The Toyota Avalons JBL Synthesis system is a really nice setup. The imaging, clarity and overall sound quality are very good. Ill have to sit in the rear of my step mothers 05 Avalon Limted to sample it from the rear as Ive only listened to it while driving. Better than the ELS(?), Id have to sample them back to back as I havent had a ton of experience with either. I did find both systems very impressive however.

hondacura4

Despite what people say about BOSE it's not all bad, it's mostly just people that are really upset at their success. That said the BOSE in my CX-7 is trash and really any Mazda except the CX-9, and the BOSE in the older RL and in Nissan's it sounds GREAT.

ELS sounds excellent with DVD-A CD's only, anything else and it's nothing special. The magnets are really light/small and so are the baskets.

In response to the Hondacura4 lover it’s ok to have strong brand preferences but, when there is a problem there is a problem no matter your personal preferences for the brand. Since I have owned the all the vehicles I think my review out weights your biased opinions. I was not kidding about the Bose systems in my past Nissans, they are indeed so much better. What is the point in listening to something if you can’t get the live feel? The reason anyone would want to pay the premium for an up-market audio system is to duplicate the live experience. So that means if your listing to say Orchestra music you should be able to hear and pick out all the sounds in set from a cello to the violin. Now I will admit the ELS system does seem to do a little better with music Orchestra/ classical music than the two Bose I compared it to but, it fails miserably with anything that has some rhythm and thump. In the event that I am listening to rock or rap I should be able to feel the bass instruments throughout my body as if I am at a concert and the voices should not come across as faint at the highest volume setting. In this respect the TL Type-S that I own fails on both fronts. Now I personally think you have a personal dislike for Bose systems in general but, there must be a reason that Acura uses one in the TOP OF THE LINE RL and by the way it sounds fabulous. I guess Audi thinks they suck too since they use it in the A8 which, is arguably the finest flagship car in the ultra premium luxury class. Well the big question is if the ELS system is so good then why do most premium manufactures use still use BOSE system in their vehicles. What it looks like to me is that the best audio system was saved for the “flagship" as you described the RL in your 1st blog....and while it may be a flagship for Acura the RL is not a flagship in anyone else’s eyes as evidenced by the 259 units they moved from dealer floors last month. In regards to your inquiry as to why I would have the volume up to 40 well you ought to be able to figure that out from the type of vehicle that this audio system is in. I am young I like the live loud concert feeling. Now I don’t know about the protecting of components claim but, my Nissans produced the loud, rich feel it in your spine bass/thump that this Acura lacks and those systems components as far as I could tell held up just fine so!?! Also just to update you on a fact regarding the RL you surely don’t think that after going through the trouble of giving the RL that extensive face left for 2009 that they are only use it for one model year. No way Honda is going to get at least two more years 2009 & 2010 out of that nip & tuck so maybe a new RL will appear for 2011 and that pushing it considering that the 1st generation RL over stayed its welcome from 96-04. That would be nine years on the market. So I doubt Honda will be giving us a new RL after 5 years.

And Frank908 good point on the nose job it sure needs one but I am not sure if new nose job & a big V8 is going to fix the RL’s lack of class, as the class that it is obtaining in a time of high fuel prices will be considered gluttonous by the time it reaches the market.

I think that some of you are missing the point. Remember, we're talking about a high-end sound system in a luxury car. My wife's Corolla gives decent sound to the driver too! But, that is not what a famous high-end system can only do. Acura claims that the ELS system is ultra-high-end and that every seat in the house is the best seat.

If you look at the highend audio systems from the luxury manufacturers, then you will see that in most of them, the system does cater to ALL the passengers, not just the front. For example, in Mercedes, the HK Logic 7 system uses 7.1 discrete channels so that every listener hears 5.1 surround sound...thus, every seat gets the same quality sound imaging and quality as the driver. Same goes for Lexus Mark Levinson systems.

Hell, my Sienna's JBL 5.1 (not 7.1) system tries to cater to everyone in the minivan...and does a semi-decent job of it. It is still better than the Acura TL and TSX systems in that regard.

The TSX ELS system is apparently a newer version than the '08 TL ELS system. It has more wattage. It has 2 extra speakers in the rear doors. HOWEVER, i found that the 2 extra rear door speakers are fairly UNDER-used by the system. Not much sound comes out of it. Before testing the system, i was sure that the 2 extra rear door speakers were added to give the rear passenger a front stage (aka all passengers hear sound coming from the front). (Remember, when you are at a concert, do you turn your back against the stage and listen?? No.) It turns out that those rear door speakers barely make a peep and are absolutely useless for the rear passengers. Why add those speakers if you're not going to use it??? I don't get it...is it just for wowing customers with more speaker count???

As pointed out above, there must be a reason why the RL does NOT use ELS. My guess is that ELS is a cheap sound system contract for Acura...it is a way for Acura to advertise it but is a fairly cheap system. If you go to the ELS website, then you can see that the speaker "technology" is pretty lame...cheap looking paper woofers and old design tweeters. I am not saying that BOSE speaker quality is any better, but i think that the processing technology of BOSE is better. ELS call to fame is that you can use DVD AUDIO on it. This is great, but how many DVD AUDIO selections are out there?? Can you get what you want on DVD AUDIO?? No. In fact, my local BestBuy and Circuit City do NOT carry any DVD AUDIO (nor SACD). It is a dying technology...just like HD-DVD. IMHO, the DVD Audio capability is useless.

I must also add that i am NOT a big fan of BOSE system either. This is why more and more high luxury makers are going away from BOSE to specific high speaker brands. For example, Mercedes & BMW are now using Harman Kardon (HK)instead of BOSE. Audi is now using Bang & Olufsen (B&O) system in their high-end cars. Jaguar is using B&W system in the new XF (and future models). Lexus uses Mark Levinson, which is a branch of HK. Land Rover uses HK. Infiniti (along with Acura RL) is now a rare luxury brand that still uses BOSE. I was not impress with the BOSE system in a recent testdrive of the '08 Infiniti G35...very average. (But, the staging in the rear seat was a bit better than the TSX/TL ELS system.)

Hi, does anyone know how the Infiniti G35 set up sounds in comparison to the TL? Thanks!

slammie,

From my brief experience in the G35, i found that the TL (2008 model) ELS system was clearer overall. There was more separation in the music notes. The G35 BOSE was OK...the only place where the g35 BOSE was better was when i sat in the rear seat.

Infiniti/BOSE advertised that it has 3 "subwoofers". Well, for BOSE, there is no such things. BOSE "subwoofer" functions more like a midbass woofer. Remember, "no highs no lows, must be BOSE." BOSE compresses the frequencies so that there is a lot of midrange and midbass, but not much from either ends of the spectrum. So, BOSE is a good system if you just want an easy system to listen to and not care about details. The good thing about this is that BOSE systems don't usually cause listening fatigue because it is sort of "monotonal" (if you know what i mean). I don't even think BOSE included real tweeters in the G35...the two small speakers at the top of the doors are midtweets (2-2.5" speakers).

IMHO, the HK systems in Mercedes C-class and Mark Levinson in Lexus IS are better systems than either G or TL. For under $38k, i think that the Toyota Avalon JBL system is superb...maybe best in that price range.

intermed99,

The ELS Surround system uses great speakers, polypro and neo. The front speakers are not woofers, they are mids. These are excerpts from an article on the system.

http://news.infibeam.com/blog/news/2008/08/20/new_2009_acura_tl_luxury_sedan_with_els_surround_system.html

"Newly designed, 4-cm, hard dome Titanium-diaphragm tweeters were selected to reduce distortion, resulting in a clear, transparent sound and stunning vocal realization. The units feature large-diameter voice coils for reduced Inter Modulation distortion and are integrated with the tweeter diaphragms to create an overlapping extension of high-end response down to 1kHz.

In contrast to the conventional speaker designs in the current TL, the 2009 Acura/ELS Surround premium audio system uses new, high-performance, Super Dynamic Range (SDR) specifications for the 17-cm and 8-cm midrange and mid-bass speakers. Capable of high-power operation, the rigid SDR drivers lower extraneous noise, saturation and distortion to reveal new details in mid-bass and midrange reproduction with their extended range and double press polyurethane (8-cm) and honeycomb (17-cm) cone construction.

Two 17-cm SDR drivers are mounted in the front doors, and two in the vehicle rear tray. The two 8-cm drivers have been added to the rear doors, and a single driver is located in the center of the instrument panel. These rear door additions provide improved front imaging for rear seat passengers, as well as enhancing the front seat listening experience, with highly accurate sound quality and no excessive bass.

The front door SDR drivers have extended low frequencies from the current 60Hz down to 40Hz. The 8-cm center and rear door speakers extend their low-frequency response from the current 150Hz down to 90Hz.

A new Super Low Distortion Driver (SLDD) subwoofer has been integrated and tuned with the structure of the rear package shelf to optimize the interaction of the speaker with the vehicle. It allows the system to obtain extended low frequency response -- a deep, powerful bass down to 20Hz -- yet minimizing spurious vibration and rattle.

The unit features a rigid SLDD dual-edge structure, lightweight damping cone, and a long-excursion voice coil that creates a quick response and a clear yet aggressive bass sound."

The 09TL is much better than the 08TL. The back seat listening esperience is much improved. I found the rear door speakers add a 5.1 experience for the rear seat and the bass from the subwoofer is not overpowering at all. For CD or iPod or XM the system sounds better than anything else I have heard. If you want more bass use the tone control.

The B&O sytsem in the A8 is a joke for the $6,000 sticker. The G35 is good, but the ELS Surround system is better for front bass and imaging. The ML sytem in the LS460 is good, not worth the coin and still I would take the ELS System. I agree the DVD-A discs are nearly impossible to find, but the demo disc that comes with the ELS Surround system is awesome.

I think Edmunds and all the other journalists who raved about the ELS system got it right.

Well, i think that my comments are dead accurate! As mentioned in all my comments to date, i tested the 2008 TL and 2009 TSX ELS systems. And it is pretty clear that Acura/ELS does indeed recognize the weakness of the mentioned systems and has thus improved it on the 2009 TL. As you can see, Acura/ELS paid special attention to EXACTLY what i wrote above as weaknesses of the ELS system on the '08 TL and '09 TSX!!

As for the components, i am happy that ELS/Pioneer has improved the quality. I am still a bit hesitant about the big titanium domed tweeters...about 1.6" tweeters. As you may know, a tweeter is optimal at 1". This is the size that is commonly regarded to produce the best high frequency sound. (Check your local high end home theater shop...see how many of the highend tower speakers have tweeters bigger than 1"...you will find that this big tweeter concept is a rarity among highend speakers.)

Manufacturers are going with big tweeters because they are dedicating the "woofers" to more bass (midbass?) production. Therefore, more and more vocals are being pushed/crossed into these oversized tweeters. Big tweeters can be crossed at a lower frequency (thus more vocals go through it)...and this is clearly reflected in the article above about the 2009 TL ELS system. However, big tweeters lose their lightweight spontaneous nature that is important to produce very high frequencies. This is why 1" has been the magic number for most high end tweeter companies.

Thus, personally, i hate the current trend to big tweeters, which is very popular among BOSE and JBL systems. Toyota/Lexus knows this well. For example, on my Sienna JBL system, JBL/Toyota uses 2-2.5" "mid-tweets" to cover high and mid-range frequencies while pushing the bass to their door speakers (6x9). This way, you have all the frequencies covered for the front passengers. Sounds good, right? Except that the "mid-tweets" don't do the job as well as a set of dedicated tweeter and midrange component speakers. I have found that the "mid-tweets" can't go as high as a true tweeter and can't cover the low-end vocals as well as a true midrange speaker. Big tweeter concept represents a compromise in sound. Is it good for most people? Yup. Is it the best design for a reference system? No.

In contrast to JBL in most toyotas, most lexus Mark Levinson systems (except in RX) use a true tweeter and midrange speaker along with a midbass speaker too. This is why in most Lexus vehicles with ML, there is a 3-way component system for the front, a 2-way component for the rear passengers, and a subwoofer. There are also 1 center channel and 2 satellite speakers to cover the 5.1 dispersion.

Or take the Toyota Avalon JBL system. JBL designed the system in the Avalon to be it's flagship system. Guess what? No midtweets...true tweeter/midrange component speakers. This is why there is a BIG difference in sonic quality between my Sienna and the Avalon's JBL system. Both use the same amplifier and from the same company. Granted, one is a minivan while the other is a sedan, but you get my point.

Of course, with big tweeters, manufacturers are going a step forward to save space by using oversized woofers. Since the big tweeters are handling most vocals along high frequencies, manufacturers are now increasing the size of the door woofers to make it play more bass. Again, this comes back to what is ideal for a midrange/midbass speaker. Most audiophiles will tell you that 6-6.5" is optimal. Any bigger and the midrange will sound worst. And smaller and the midbass output will not be enough. (Again, go to your local home theater store and look yourself.) So, car manufacterers are adding big woofers into the doors to provide more bass, which is good but you do sacrifice some delicate midrange frequencies.

Anyway, sorry about the long rant. I am happy to see that the new TL system addresses some of my concerns.

"In response to the Hondacura4 lover it’s ok to have strong brand preferences but, when there is a problem there is a problem no matter your personal preferences for the brand. Since I have owned the all the vehicles I think my review out weights your biased opinions."

Maxman, how was my post biased when I criticized the system in my own car, which is an Acura? My opinions have nothing to do with the Acura brand. I think Ive pretty much proven Im extremely open minded when it comes to other brands, import or domestic. Yes, prefer Honda/Acura products but I dont wear Honda tinted sunglasses like some "Honda enthusiasts".

I gave the JBL Synthesis system in the Avalon Limited high marks as its a very nice system. I dont see that as biased. The Avalon is not an Acura nor does it have the ELS system therefore your claims are invalid.

P.S. Try using paragraphs in your next post as they are much eaier to read.

Hondacura4, thank you for your grammatical advice while it’s obvious that neither of us are audio technology wizards like intmed99 or soundandfury. These two both of whom have done an excellent job of describing the same weaknesses I felt with my 08 TL Type-S system in the proper audio fanatic terms. Nowhere in my posting was there a reference on your 03 CL Type-S Bose system. You are the only one who brought that system up as the blog was about the ELS/pioneer system. In your quote… “You’ve got to be kidding! Bose is nothing but a name, that’s about it. I for one have never been impressed with any Bose car stereo system (in any car) simply because of the ease of distortion and average sound quality. Bose doesn’t even make the speakers (which are paper) or the head units (Pioneer ?). The Bose system in my 2003 Acura CL Type-S 6MT is garbage and has been from day 1.”

Not only did you show your dislike for your Bose system, but you also went even further to question my satisfaction with my previous Bose systems. With this you clearly show your biases towards the ELS system. Like I said before it ok to have brand preferences for the brand- note the singular use of the word BRAND referring to the ELS brand of audio systems not to the vehicle manufactures Honda/Acura. I never said your biases were toward JBL I clearly stated that they were to ELS with a firm disapproval of Bose systems.

Any yes I do know that the Avalon, is not an Acura it is indeed a Toyota. Introduced for model year 1995, it was built on a stretched version of the 3rd generation Camry platform. Using a slightly modified version of the Camry’s 3.0 V6 producing 192hp. Built in Georgetown, KY it became the 1st Toyota passenger car with 6 passenger seating. This 6 passenger accommodation was particularly important allowing the car to compete with the large sedans from the Detroit big three. In doing so this car became Toyota top of the line vehicle ultimately filling in the void in Toyota line up after they retired the Cressida!

I forgot to comment on soundandfury's critic of A8 B&O and LS460 ML systems. I agree that the B&O is more for looks than true sound...but that is pretty much what B&O is all about!

I disagree about the Lexus ML system. It is a fantastic system...by far, the best stock stereo system i have heard, bar none. It simply blows ELS systems away in every category known to man except for price. It truly has deep bass and the imaging and staging are very good for ALL passengers. Unlike the TSX model i tested, the rear seat did not have any vibration from the subwoofer.

I know that the above description of the 2009 TL system sounds great, but i have my doubts after thinking about it. For example, the description is not that much different than the Acura description of the 2009 TSX system...10 speakers, 440 watts, similar locations, etc.. I certainly hope Acura/ELS paid more attention to the rear passengers on the 2009 TL than they did before!

Youre welcome Maxman. =)

"In response to the Hondacura4 lover"

"Like I said before its ok to have brand preferences for the brand- note the singular use of the word BRAND referring to the ELS brand of audio systems not to the vehicle manufactures Honda/Acura."

Maxman, which is it? Am I biased for liking (some) Honda/Acura products or for thinking ELS is better than Bose? In your post you didnt clearly state if I liked the ELS sytem because it was implemented in an Acura product or that I liked the system just because of the ELS brand which lead to me refering the Avalon wasnt a Acura product.

"With this you clearly show your biases towards the ELS system. Like I said before it ok to have brand preferences for the brand- note the singular use of the word BRAND referring to the ELS brand of audio systems not to the vehicle manufactures Honda/Acura. I never said your biases were toward JBL I clearly stated that they were to ELS with a firm disapproval of Bose systems."

I included the Avalons JBL Synthesis system to show that I wasnt biased towards the ELS system and the fact that I thought the JBL system was very impressive in its own right. Both the ELS and JBL systems offered better sound quality and clarity vs the overly thumpy and easily distorted Bose systems Ive heard. I however didnt state the ELS system didnt have it faults as nothing is perfect.

When I consider all around performance I still believe the ELS (and JBL) system(s) are more impressive than the Bose.

"I guess Audi thinks they suck too since they use it in the A8 which, is arguably the finest flagship car in the ultra premium luxury class."

Im pretty sure the Audi A8 uses a B & O as its top of the line option not Bose.

"Well the big question is if the ELS system is so good then why do most premium manufactures use still use BOSE system in their vehicles."

The Bose name alone attracts attention. If youve noticed the past few years other brands have made their presence known so Bose isnt as popular as it used to be. Im surely not saying Bose as a whole is horrid, just that the Bose sytems Ive sampled were average at best.

"What it looks like to me is that the best audio system was saved for the “flagship" as you described the RL in your 1st blog....and while it may be a flagship for Acura the RL is not a flagship in anyone else’s eyes as evidenced by the 259 units they moved from dealer floors last month."

I said nothing about Bose in my first post, or mention the CURRENT RL for that matter. I or Acura never suggested that the CURRENT or any past RL/Legend was a flagship. My first post clearly indicated that the Acura flagship would be the next generation model and have a standard V8. Acura has indicated that the next generation RL (FR based/SH-awd) sedan will clearly be a tier 1 luxury vehicle. The new car will no longer compete with the M, 5, STS, E Class, GS as its moving up a segment to compete with the bog dogs. Hopefully the car will make its presence known, hopefully.

Im not afarid to admit the current RL and the last generation 3.5RL were flops. Clearly a good cars in a sea of greats. On the contrary what happened to Infinitis flagship sedan, the Q? Flop also?

So reading all these posts, I have a few comments myself.

1) Song suggestions: I think that whether you like electronic music or not, a good song with a lot of layers and different types of sounds from low to high that will push a sound system is Pjanoo by Eric Prydz. Use it, it's great! For those traditionalists, try Second Rhapsody for Piano and Orchestra by George Gershwin. Also a great piece.

2) To the guy who is sooooo concerned about the stereo sounding great at all seating positions---How old are you? Let's be realistic here. Unless you're a 20-something year old who's going to be bumping the music at close to full volume with your friends on the way to the club, I'm pretty sure all of your passengers are not going to be listening to the radio at all. I AM a 20-something year old (22), and even my friends don't often pay attention to the radio or what's playing on it. We're usually too busy talking to care. Most people drive with one passenger or by themselves anyway.

3) Have any of you sat and listened to the ELS in the RDX or MDX? Maybe the cabin shape makes a difference. My mom has an RDX, and I drove it today for about an hour and half with the volume turned to about 13 (probably a little above average for most adult listeners), with my iPod plugged in. I have a Chrysler Crossfire, which comes with an Infiniti Modulus sound system, and for a 2 seater, it's pretty damn good, definitely perfect for my music-listening needs. But today in the RDX, I was really surprised at how clear that stereo really is, especially compared with the system in my Crossfire. First of all, in most songs, it thumps the bass very richly, and separates the sounds incredibly well. The sound stage is wide, and the sound engulfs you. When I was listening to Pjanoo, the chimes sounded like they were inside the car with me, and there was even a part where the chimes were barely above whisper quiet, and I could hear it! Truly remarkable. And this is all with the MP3s on my iPod. I couldn't even imagine a DVD-A disc. On some songs, the stereo did carry the bass too "high," like the sound felt like it was coming from the mid speakers more than the woofers, but overall, the system performed very impressively.

4) Part of what makes these stereos better than the run of the mill systems is the programming, not JUST the speaker technology. When evaluating a stereo, think that the way the head unit and amp are putting out the sound is just as important as how the speakers are. It's the same as a home theater system. If you want to improve the sound quality, the first thing you should replace is receiver, not the speakers (unless the speakers are cheap or blown out). I personally think Acura has done well with the ELS tuning, but if you have a problem with it, put a new head unit and amp in the car, that will probably fix your qualms with it.

5) Just a question and thought: the RDX carries tweeter style speakers mounted on its D-pillars that point into the cabin. Would this be a good thing to do in cars too? Put the parcel shelf speakers in the doors, putting one main woofer in the shelf, and putting tweeter style speakers on the c-pillars pointing into the cabin, rather than near the door handles?

coolb944,

I am 34 years old. Here is the thing...did you buy a luxury vehicle with a brand name sound system OR did you buy an Accord with generic sound system?? So, would you not expect that the Acura/ELS system to be better than the Accord's?? Would you not expect better "fuzzy logic" programing?? I do...and you should too because you paid for it. THAT is being realistic! Although most of the time you are along, does that make it right for Acura/ELS to skimp on proper imaging for all passengers???? Remind me, how much are we paying for these Acura vehicles?? Would it be nice to have a system that sounds good at all seating positions?? Other luxury sound systems can do it, why not Acura/ELS????

I have listened to ELS in MDX. The larger cabin does make it more "spacious" and the rear imaging/staging is not as pronounced as in the TSX/TL (2008). As stated above, i actually prefer the 2008 TL ELS over the 2009 TSX because the tweeter is on the front dash pointing upward at the windshield...thus, a wider stage. The '09 TSX ELS has tweeters pointing crisscross at the front passengers. For me, i prefer the tweeter arrangement in the TL.

I would encourage you to listen to Lexus IS350 with Mark Levinson, ES350 with ML, or Toyota Avalon with JBL Synthesis.

For me, it seems like that ONLY calling card for the ELS systems ('09 TSX, '08 TL/MDX) is the DVD Audio capability in an otherwise slightly above average system. And as mentioned above, DVD Audio is a dead technology and is laughable that Acura is so high on this! As you may notice, most Lexus ML systems can play DVD Audio, but Lexus wisely does not rely on this only to attract customers.

If you feel that i am inaccurate in my assessment of the '09 TSX ELS system, then i encourage you to sit in the rear seat and listen. It will truly disappoint you!

As for staging and imaging, it is a combination of "fuzzy logic" technology (headunit +/- amp), speaker locations (important!), and speaker design/materials. Of these, i think that speaker materials are the least important as is evident in most systems (BOSE, ELS, Infiniti, etc.) on the market today.

intmed99

I understand where you're coming from -- for the money, yes, the system should perform. I haven't checked out the 09 TSX system, but I also wouldn't base my whole ELS opinion on just the TSX, which is their cheapest car. After all, 3 other Acura products come with it. As I said, the one in my mom's RDX is awesome, and from every seating position. Really stunning. I tested it out. Check the systems in the TL, RDX, and MDX out before you make a full opinion. Who knows, maybe that was a defective model. Try another TSX.

One last thought. Maybe it's worth looking into. The TSX is for the most part a European Honda Accord, almost completely unaltered. Maybe the speaker technology is the same in both systems, just the stereo programming is different or something. Worth examining, no? Might explain some things. And it could be a defective model, so check another one.