Are American Cars Dead?

What about the Corvette? Could've sworn it was still built in the US. Not worth Having?

If you want it done cheap, build it in Mexico.

If you want it done right, build it in Canada.

If you want tax breaks for building it, build it in the US.

tube_amps_rule,
The Corvette is built in Kentucky.
Them darned Kentuckians have since taken favor with Toyota, building the great abomination "Toyota Camry" and its derivatives.
Kentuckians as such can no longer be considered Americans.
Blasted Kentucky!

unions

Correct me if I'm wrong, I probably am, but aren't most import "factories" in the states just final assembly points? What I mean is, aren't they just finally bolted together here, with the engine preassembled, transmission preassembled, wiring harness mostly sorted out, etc? Or are the cars fully assembled from frame to steering wheel, painted and Q/C'd here?

If thats the case, then Americans are still the only ones truly building cars in America. If I'm wrong, (again, I probably am), courteously correct me, I'm not too sharp on my manufacturing plant info and I wouldn't mind knowing...

I think it is the issue of trade and labor laws, mismanagement, and transfer pricing strategies (and more as things will pile on and on).

First, we all know for fact that GM and Ford bought too many dying automobile companies and they never had the adequate resources to keep everything in line while facing strong competition. Simply, there was no branding solution.

GM took a necessary approach several years back by eliminating deficient brands and bringing qualities to ones that can survive (maybe not enough quality, but they have improved). Since GM is not doing bad at all in oversea markets, they are using foreign designs that have been proven for success. i.e. Holden and Opel designs coming to America with Pontiac and Saturn badges.

Ford, you are looking at a slower transition that can be somewhat closely related to GM decisions. Ford sold some of their luxury brands since they simply could not bring those brands into life. They bought off many labor contracts and tried to salvage what they can.

Now, with trade laws and transfer pricing, you are looking at more foreign automobile companies coming to our soil to put together cars. At same time, GM and Ford are doing something different since they are in much different situation.

GM and Ford are allocating resources from oversea markets, such as South and Central Americas, Europe, and Asia. This is perhaps cheaper and wiser as they are concentrating their capitals toward emerging markets. I think GM and Ford are more versatile in oversea markets than in the States.

For country such as Mexico, NAFTA could be your answer. With the agreement, why should GM and Ford keep their jobs in the states when labor costs are much cheaper in Mexico? Is GM and Ford the problem? Or is it Congress the problem? Maybe none?

If you think about it though, which parts are actually made in the United States? Even foreign cars are only assembled here, not technically made here. In that sense, most or all of the cars are basically made in oversea, only assembled in the States. You can hate the fact that what should be true American cars are being built oversea. However, this is global market and it is almost non sense for an automobile company to keep the ego in front of profit. Only way for GM, Ford, and Chrysler to build cars here in the States is for them to pressure the government to bring in stiffer tariff and quota laws. Do you think that would be a wise choice? Transfer pricing strategy already plays big role as foreign car makers face more profit by assembling here in the states. However, using the U.S. made parts does not come into the factor. If it is at same price, do you think foreigners would want to assemble their cars here? At same price range, do you think the U.S. car makers want to assemble cars at Mexico?

From that understanding, should the U.S. auto makers invest more capital in Asia and Europe to shift entire operation? Certainly, that will allow them to produce high quality products.

I would say stop yapping!! If you want to see more cars made here, then do something about!! What they are doing now is how things should be in given economic situation.

Firstly, someone should point out the many, many white-collar workers that work to organize, develop, and sell any car. If the car is engineered, designed, and marketed here then jobs are created here. Additionally, a company wouldn't make cars if not for profit, and it is in Americas best interests to make sure that profit stays in America.

That being said, I agree with you (for a change) Mr. Mechanic. Personally, I believe that this trend is our faults for not putting enough thought into the long-term impacts of the purchases we make. Personally, when I buy a new car, I'm going to make sure that it's made in the US and preferably engineered here too.

I think people just don't want to agree with you :S.

its ok i agreed on the first post and this one...

no matter what kind of car we build there will always be a opposition party with a better product...

maybe we should steal there engineers?!

whether its built in the US or Mexico, the end result is the same. a poorly built automobile.

I'm so tired of this stupid post floating around the internet. Yes we all know that the Anerican industry has gone global. This is what years of not being able to sell cars in the aformentioned countries did, and not only can we not sell MANY cars in their countries, but when they come here they pay their workers a least 10 dollars less, and don't provide the same health care coverage as the american workers. If we won't to sell cars in their countries we have to build a factory. Umm I don't really remember other automakers doing that till recently because of the horrible american dollar
This is whwat years of unfair treatment, free trade can do to an industry, don't blame them, blame americas freetrade.

"It's the Economy, Stupid!" - Thank you Mr. Carville....

Seriously, though, with the American Dollar having been on the decline for awhile, it's very cheap (relatively) for many foreign countries (Germany, Japan, etc.) to set up shop here and build their product. Whereas for an ostensibly US-Based company like GM, it's tough to compete cost-wise unless they find a cheaper labor rate.

Of course, this discussion about finding cheaper labor rates would not be complete if you didn't mention the 'U' word, yep, I mean Unions. Don't think I didn't notice that the mechanic wasn't brave enough to step in that steaming pile, neither...

It's not the only reason however, as the problem is multi-faceted - you can lump rising healthcare costs and pension payoffs in there to boot. GM (and to a slightly lesser extent, Ford & Chrysler) would be up poo-poo creek if they didn't outsource and make use of cheaper labor rates elsewhere. In fact, you could say that the company's US-based employees should be grateful for this outsourcing, since if GM/Ford/Chrysler didn't do that, any employee they have on American soil would be out of a job due to the company folding.

I hate to puncture your sense of infallability, but not a single Chevy Traverse has ever rolled off the line in Lansing. They're all built in Spring Hill. Sometimes, the devil is in the details.

"whether its built in the US or Mexico, the end result is the same. a poorly built automobile. "

Why do simple minded people continue to post here?

Where a vehicle is assembled is only part of the story. You have to look at where major components are sourced from and where the vehicle is designed. Last time I checked GM and Ford dont employ engineers or designers in Canada or Mexico. Its ridiculous to praise BMW for building the X5 and X6 here because those products are for the US market. Same applies to gas guzzling Japanese SUVs like the Armada and Sequoia. They have to be made here because this is the only market where they are sold.

I don't see how the Vette doesn't count nor do I see how the GMT900s built in Texas dont count. He mentions the Prius will be built here (but still imported from Japan) but fails to mention the Volt will be built here. Not to mention the Cruze. This is more idiotic stuff posted by someone who has nothing worthwhile to say. Fans of import cars (like the mechanic) often say they are going to buy the best vehicle available regardless of where it's made. If that be the case why would anyone care where Big 3 branded cars are made. The falling value of the dollar is going to reduce the number of vehicles imported going forward so we may be at the peak of Mexican/Canadian production.

BTW, VW builds cars in Mexico and Toyota builds vehicles in Canada.

It's interesting that many of the US market only import products he mentions are facing declining sales right now. Its great that so many trucks and pickups are made in US factories but many of those factories are slowing production, switching product lines or offering workers buyouts.

It's a multi step issue.

There's more to a car than assembly. The key is to get the money to flow back into our economy. When Toyota builds a plant in the US, some money does flow here for the assembly jobs (Btw: Toyota only does this to avoid import tariffs). Most of the money (and control) works its way back to Japan.

If Ford assemblies a car in Mexico, most of the money works it's way back to the US. Some stays in Mexico in assembly jobs. I'd rather the money be in Mexico (and Canada) than in Japan. It's closer to home. Seriously, if our neighbors are better off, it's good for us.

Once we reach a point where the money is flowing to our economy (and our control), then we can start looking at other things.

I care about two things. I care about who controls our economy. I'd rather a foreign company not control our economy. I also care about the trade deficit. Honestly, if the trade deficit were balanced, it doesn't bother me at all where the product is assembled. We should trade with other countries, but it needs to be a two way street.

Before you gain any real replies,

why dont you come out and tell us who you are?

Seriously, if you want to make any claims, at least have the stones to put your own name to your writings. Otherwise, your no better then any poster here hiding behind a screen name.

And for the record, if any edmunds editor/write wants to know my 'true' identity, I have no problems sending it to them.

But it just seems like edmunds came up with 'the mechince' so that they can bash domestic cars, without feeling any heat.

The Matrix is built in Canada, and always has been. Whoops.

Perhaps you're thinking of the Vibe, which is built in California at NUMMI.

"The Insiders will tell you that GM, Ford and Chrysler aren't American companies anymore"

For me, this is the key statement in the entire post. I'm all for patriotism (albiet, Canadian patriotism *duck and cover*) but where my vehicle is built does not matter to me. If I am losing sleep over driving an English/German design/built car, then how will I ever deal with the fact that EVERYTHING ELSE I OWN was manufactured in China/Vietnam/Mexico/notinCanadaorUSA.

"Firstly, someone should point out the many, many white-collar workers that work to organize, develop, and sell any car. If the car is engineered, designed, and marketed here then jobs are created here."

Very valid points. If the inevitable result is moving manufacturing to somewhere cheaper, its nice to at least keep some of the intellect local.

"Last time I checked GM and Ford dont employ engineers or designers in Canada or Mexico."

I can't comment on designers, but they certainly hire engineers here in Canada. We have large automotive programs at our post-secondary institutions based around the GM facilities in Oshawa and the Ford facilities in Oakville.

1487 has a point. However, I think that to be considered a US built car, 75% of the parts have to come from American suppliers. I'm pretty sure the main stream American built cars from Honda, Toyota, etc. conform to this.

And as much as I like the idea of keeping US dollars in the US rather than having it sent to a foreign country, that foreign country is also one of the largest holders of US debt (second to China). And keeping a reason to continue acquiring and holding US Debt is a pretty important thing too. Unfortunately, at this time, we DO NOT control our own financial destiny anymore. I'm not sure that balanced trade is a tenable situation anymore - people are addicted to cheap Chinese products and will pay the same or extra for perceived quality.

And the perception of quality that the foreign companies have built up over 40 years is a hard perception to break. I LOVE the Corvette, Flex and CTS, but at best they are niche market vehicles that sell very few vehicles compared to the bulk of American car sales. Cars like the Malibu are nearly as good, and in some cases better than their Japanese counterparts, but "as good or a little better" isn't good enough to overturn the perception that the Japanese companies have built. They have to be a lot better. Is it fair? No. But it is reality. FWIW, I think that Ford and GM are starting to get it by bringing some of their outstanding world cars to market soon.

"It's interesting that many of the US market only import products he mentions are facing declining sales right now. Its great that so many trucks and pickups are made in US factories but many of those factories are slowing production, switching product lines or offering workers buyouts."

Unfortunately, there are extenuating circumstances in that remark. If you look month to month for the year then yes, a lot of the models are facing a decline. If you compare the decline to the entire US automotive market, then the numbers are better. Another issue is that these foreign owned factories can quickly shift to more marketable vehicles whereas their US-owned counterparts would require months or years to redesign their assembly lines.

Can we blame the Unions for this? Sure. But if you were in the position of having to drastically give back your salary, you might be as reluctant, too. I think the Union are starting to get it also. And to the posters that mentioned that Japanese companies pay less per hour, in most cases it is the opposite. Until recently, Japanese factories here actually paid a little more in base salary but gave less benefits (401k instead of pension, etc.), which is what most people get in private industry. They did this too keep the employees satisfied enough to keep the unions out. I don't like some of the heavy handed tactics used to keep the unions out, or the local and state subsidies to bring in the factories, but I don't think the employees are underpaid. Especially if you count how underfunded the pensions of the big three are.

"If you compare the decline to the entire US automotive market, then the numbers are better. Another issue is that these foreign owned factories can quickly shift to more marketable vehicles whereas their US-owned counterparts would require months or years to redesign their assembly lines."

That isnt true of all their plants. Some plants (Nissan has one as does Hyundai and maybe Toyota) produce different vehicles but not all import ownerd plants are like this. Toyota is in the midst of redesigning its plant that was supposed to assemble the Highlander so it can make the Prius. Obviously the plant wasnt originally designed to build anything but the Highlander. You are also wrong about the declines of import branded SUVs/trucks looking good in the context of the overall market. The Tundra, 4Runner, Armada, Avalon and Titan are not doing well at all. Almost every large import SUV and pickup is doing poorly right now and some of them are doing even worse than their Detroit counterparts. The Japanese had to build plants here due to tarriffs and to build US only products. Over time you may see them shift production to Mexico, especially once the new UAW rules take effect in 2010 and the Big 3 are hiring people for $14 an hour.

"They have to be a lot better."

They cant be and I dont understand why people keep asking for such a thing. All automakers design cars to a certain price point. Chevy cannot design and build a car that is 10 times better than the Accord and sell it for $20k. Not going to happen. Honda and Toyota cant even leapfrog the competition (witness the 2008 Accord) and they make billions in profit every year. The industry is very competitive and most vehicles in a particular segment are very similar.

Check the window stickers on a new car to see where it's made. They list the final assembly point (location), percentage of US (might be NAFTA) parts, & where the engine & transmission come from.

And by the way, don't leave China out of the mix as a assembly point. The V6 engine in the Chevy Equinox & Pontiac Torrent is built in China & then shipped to the US for installation into the vehicle. Not too many people know that.

I agree. That's why I found the slogan "An American Revolution" quite funny!

1487, my comments were not meant to be personal. I actually liked your post but wanted to add a differing viewpoint.

In regards to you comment about the truck/SUV plants of the Japanese companies, you are correct. I would like to add that as large and as much money and resources they put into these factories, we are talking about around 5 factories total that are affected compared to the total number factories in the US owned by the same foreign factories. And even for Toyota, which depends on truck/suv sales more than any other foreign manufacturer, it is not a huge percentage of their resources that need to be shut down and reorganized. Yes they didn't see the Truck market collapsing, but they don't depend on it like the big three. And in Toyota's situation, I believe that they will very easily be able to consolidate all of their true truck production in the their TX plant w/o too long a retrofit. The other plants are pretty modular like Honda.

My comments on domestics needing to build a better car is a real world situation. I believe I stated that it is UNFAIR that they had to do this. However, like 80% of the board responders here can attest from their posts, the foreign producers hold a huge lead in Perceived Quality. I think Perceived Quality requires momentum to change. Because the big three have a reputation for lower quality, I feel that they need to hit it out of the park (circa 1985 Ford Taurus). Likewise, I think that Honda would really have to screw up badly their line of cars before it perceived quality(as opposed to real quality) is damaged.

No edit--
"we are talking about around 5 factories total that are affected compared to the total number factories in the US owned by the same foreign factories." I meant same foreign companies... oops.

I also forgot to mention another reason foreign companies want to build here - currency hedges. Take a look at the Honda Canada and Australia sites. In the US, the S2000 is about $35000 list for the base model - pretty much the same price as it has been. In Canada, it's CA$50K and Australia AUS$70K, about the same as it always has been(also check the Accord and Civic prices - it's eye opening.) Which, about 3 years ago, US$35k was ~ CA$50K was ~ AUS$70K. Except now, US$35k ~ CA$35k ~AUS$35k. So Honda must be making beaucoup bucks on all of their products in other countries, right? Unfortunately, without currency hedging(which Honda and not surprisingly, BMW, is very good at), Honda would lose A LOT of money on every Non-US built car. The thing is, currency hedging costs money in the form of interest, so really can only be used for the more specialized and premium Japanese made models. Honda also hedges it Canadian products, but probably at a lower rate. Also NAFT laws and lower shipping and vendor costs help too. Ironically, because of NAFTA, Honda probably makes a larger profit from cars made in the US sold in Canada.

"Chevy cannot design and build a car that is 10 times better than the Accord and sell it for $20k."

Nobody is asking Chevy to build a car ten times better than an Accord. They're asking to build a car that's on par with the Accord.

dougtheeng: "EVERYTHING ELSE I OWN was manufactured in China/Vietnam/Mexico/notinCanadaorUSA."

That's a huge problem. My issue isn't just with the automotive industry, it's with the trade deficit. Everyone needs to start looking at labels when they shop.

My lawn tractor is made in Minnesota. My snow blower is made in Wisconsin. I just purchased some USA made electrical outlets. Even my tennis shoes are made in the USA. My television was tougher and I had to go for Canada (you're welcome) and Mexico. I'm OK with that as they're our neighbors and allies.

You have to put forward some effort, but you can easily make more of your purchases made in your country. It costs a little more, but you're ahead in the long run.

You need to try a little harder.

it doesn't need to be 10x better - 1.5x would be good enough... ;)

mexican built cars are the best

THE MECHANIC IS A JOKE

seriously, edmunds is just messing up with us

my original statement remains true. VW's made in mexico are crap, too. my M-Class Mercedes Benz was built here and it was a lemon. I also had a Dodge Grand Caravan that was a lemon. Toyota and Honda have had more recalls (and/or "buybacks") recently than I could ever remember in the past... on American made cars.

Welcome to the Global Economy.

The only car raced in NASCAR made in the USA?

Ironically, it's the Camry.

PS I never said Japanese made is perfect or German made is perfect... they have their problems too. However, German and Japanese have far better work ethic than Americans or Mexicans. I'd rather have my car assembled by someone who gives a crap about what they're doing.

There is nothing wrong with American workers. We built some of the most reliable cars. Hence Toyota Camry and Honda Accord.
We are technologically advanced and have some of the best innovators. Hence electric cars and the design for hybrid vehicles.
We are hard working and passionate about what we built. There is no question.

However, there is one problem with the culture of American car industry that the focus is no longer about building the best car but how to derive more profit for the management and labor unions.

I agree whole heartedly, and the problem can be solved with reducing the auto unions' influence on pay. How come Toyota plant workers building the Tundra are union but GM workers building the Malibu are??

UAW...enough said. Before the baconators get all self-righteous, the CAW is just as bad and now that the currency is about even, look for Canadian work to go away too. You only have yourselves to blame.

The other thing that needs to be considered...even though a car is made on US soil, profits still go to the "homeland". Sure there are property & payroll taxes, and the wages themselves (but they get spent on chinese TV's) but frankly those are zero-sum gains. Meaning, those jobs have just replaced jobs lost by the domestic companies already.

Remedy: treat the manufacturers of foreign companies the SAME as their countries would treat us, especially on the import/export side. Tax the snot out of them like they do us, then you'll see who really comes out on top. That would include parts. Then you'll see the CamCord cost 2-3k more than a comparable domestic.

cartester-

That will never happen, however. Chinese and Japanese governments are the largest holders of our debt. We can't tas the crap out of them. They'd just convert their US currency holdings to Euros and "punish" us.

I totally agree with all of your articles!!! keep the truth coming!

So what?

Yeah, some American models are built in Mexico or Canada. Hell, Cadillac Allante's were built in Italy, then FLOWN on specially modified Alitalia 747's to the US for the driveline to be installed. Everyone still thought of it as a Cadillac, if not a particularly inspiring one. I have 4 domestic cars, Focus SVT (Mexico), Camaro SS (Canada), Navigator (Michigan) and Excursion (Kentucky). Neighbors and friends all remark on my "all-American fleet of gas guzzlers"! At the end of the day, a company (foreign or domestic) determines where the most cost-effective place to manufacture will be. If they choose Mexico, it just means that more profit dollars will filter back to the US than if they manufactured in the US or elsewhere. The foreign brands so the same thing. BMW obviously researched costs and benefits before building their huge complex in South Carolina. I'm just hoping there will continue to be a US auto industry around that will get to decide where to build a model!

And enough with the domestic vs. foreign workmanship and reliability issues. The newest of my vehicles is a 2004 with 61K. Still on original brakes, tires, etc. Just change the oil and motor on. Even the 10 yr. old Camaro starts every time, is dead-axe reliable and costs me no money. My previous BMW, VW's, Nissan, and Honda could not accomplish that task. The true point is the US builds some pretty dull machines to surround their superstars. However, compare a new Taurus to a new Camry and it's a draw. Both a boring as paint drying, except even the base Taurus has some poke from the V-6. Where the US has real catching up to do is with the small cars. Focus, Cobalt, Caliber are all the pits. The little Saturn (German)is interesting but underpowered and too expensive for the class. At least the Cobalt is better than the horrid Cavalier. Neither the Caliber nor Focus are as entertaining to drive as their previous editions. Stupid decisions like dumping the SRT Neon and Focus SVT that while they didn't sell in volume, couldn't have cost much extra to build is a shame. Hopefully, the upcoming new small cars from Ford and GM will reverse this trend, but I think Chrysler is a goner. Meanwhile, I'm crossing my fingers for a resurgence from what remains of the Big 3.

American cars suck. Japanese are better for the purposes of transportation and German cars are better for athletic driving. American cars suck.

Big American Trucks aren't bad, if you need a big truck, but if you need a small truck? A Ford Ranger or a Nissan Frontier? You tell me. GMC Canyon or a Toyota Tacoma? That one is easy too.

The American Muscle cars are cool, that's without a doubt, and there isn't a good European substitute for a Mustang or Challenger either. But if I was spending 35-40k on a coupe (which is what a good Muscle Car costs), I'd take the G37 or the 135i in a second.

American Cars suck. And I'm a good Ol' Boy from Alabama too. Roll Tide. American Cars still suck.

Mechanic, are you a bafoon? Wether an Escalade is built in Mexico or in the US, the majority of the car is built by a machine. Your title infers that american cars are no longer american. That is absurd. These cars were designed, tested, and developed by americans!

-And one more thing. The X3 is built in Austria, not America.

If I remember correctly, the 2002 Nissan Altima was designed in Nissan's design studio in southern California. It is assembled in Tennessee (I think the engines come from Japan though). Even if I did buy the car to support the "Buy American" campaign, without looking at the window sticker, I wouldn't know where it comes from. The average person looks at the badge on the front and determines where it's been built, correctly or not.

I did not buy my Nissan thinking about it's origin. It just was the best choice for me to make given my choices.

I guess I don't have an American Flag tattooed over my heart.

As someone above already mentioned, it's faintly ridiculous how worked up people will get about the origin of their vehicle as a moralistic or patriotic statement.

What is it about cars that makes their country of manufacture seem so salient? Do the people who get red-faced about "fake American" Camrys care that virtually every piece of electronics in their house--including the computer their rants are written on--are made overseas? Are they willing to pay extra for American-made clothes? Furniture? Fixtures? Do they forego foreign produce and only buy what's growing in the country's backyard? Do they avoid fast-food beef raised in South America?

In most cases, I'm guessing not. More people like the idea of "buying American" than the reality's inconvenience and price premium.

Oh man! You actually made me laugh out loud with the turd comment. Thanks for the laugh.

Sure are a lot of whiney replies...

With the burden of unions, it's hard to compete. Results not surprising at all...

I have a 2006 Mitsubishi Lancer (100% made in Japan) and a 2004 Mitsubishi Galant (engine/trans made in Japan the rest of the car built in Normal IL USA), i've NEVER had a single problem with neither of the vehicles. I personally think American cars are good. I do notice that my Lancer has better build quality that my Galant. But NOT to the point to say that one is crap and the other is great. Both serve reliably to my family. I also belive on how well you mantain you're vehicle. I service both my cars at my Mitsubishi dealer. With that said i support american made/build cars.

As for why we should care where our car is made:

For most Americans, the car is the third most expensive thing we have (after any children or houses we may have invested in). This is a sizable amount of money to be spending overseas.

Secondly, for most Americans, the car is one of the most complex machines we own with electronic, mechanical, and aesthetic components which are supplied by many various (preferably local) industries.

Finally, we should care where our stereos and sofas and computers are made. We should never have let our manufacturing industries become as decrepit as it has and should bother to check the "Made in" label on our products.

Money talks, and right now we are saying "please outsource my job to ."

There are so many strikes against Detroit that it is not even funny. Lets just look at Toyota and GM (number 1 and 2), but the same applies if you were comparing Ford and Honda or GM and Nissan.

GM: 8 confusing brands - Cadillac, Chevy, Buick, Saturn, GMC, Saab, Pontiac, Hummr.

Toyota: 3 clear brands - Toyotta (full-line main stream), Lexus (Luxury), Scion (urban-youth).

Dealership experience. GM has 4 times as many dealers as Toyota. As a result, the average Toyota dealer sells four times as many cars and is healthier financially. That leads to better looking, cleaner, better staffed (attract top sales people) dealerships.

Perceived Quality - GM screwed the consumers for too long. True it is coming out with a very competitive product line up, but when they are presented as confusing brands and sold through bad dealerships, the perceived quality will take a long time to erase. Hyunday did it by providing the best warranty in the business - period. GM can't point to any such bod guarantees that will provetheir cars are built better.

Profitability - With the unions, the retirees, the paid-to-stay-home workers, the uneeded plants, the uneeded brands, the unneeded dealerships, Detroit will never be as profitable as the competition. Therefore, long term, the products will always lag behind.

Competitiveness - Detroit's "big-three" US built cars are not exported in any significant quantities to advanced markets like Europe and Japan. CTSs as good as they are can't compete in Europe with BMWs and MBs and Audis. Corvettes are still laughable in Europe. Een the ZR1 won't be competitive with Porsche et al. That make the american products seem parochial, second-rate, backwards. That impacts profits, impacts the ability of Detroit to shift produts to hot markets during domestic slow downs.

Yes, Detroit, particularly GM, is building better cars, but the bagage in trail is just too heavy.

drive571 writes: "Do the people who get red-faced about "fake American" Camrys care that virtually every piece of electronics in their house--including the computer their rants are written on--are made overseas? Are they willing to pay extra for American-made clothes? Furniture? Fixtures? Do they forego foreign produce and only buy what's growing in the country's backyard? Do they avoid fast-food beef raised in South America?"

Scroll back and read my previous post where I list my recent purchases. I do my best to buy domestically. I often pay a premium for it, but it's typically better quality.

If you give up and just send your money overseas, then you can kiss your retirement goodbye. I believe the trade deficit is this country's biggest problem.

ZR1 won't be able to compete with Porsche's? Uh, I think the Z06 already gets thrown in the mix with them. The ZR1 will do fine.

Really? How many Porsches do you think will be exported to the US for every Corvette that is exported to the US (a much larger market)?

It will be way over 10 to 1. And Porsche is minting so much money that they just bought control of VW one of the largest automakers in the world. Meanwhile, doe GM make money on the Corvette?

Think - who is more competitive?

one point many people seem to forget is the negative effect the uaw has had on the american auto industry. one reason why it is cheaper to manufacture outside the united states is because the uaw has nearly priced its workers out of competition. we here a lot about greed today. the greed of business leaders is popular in the media. but far too few dare to mention the greed of the workers, specifically uaw workers.

last year i toured a gm plant as part of a possible internship, and saw an inordinate amount of workers simply relaxing and sitting on their butts when they should have been…working. it must be nice to get paid an extravagant wage (comparatively speaking) for four hours of work per day. why go to college when you can help to destroy a proud industry?

Did I say I was referring to the sales of Porsches vs. the Corvette? I meant performance wise. And since when do Corvettes need to be exported from Kentucky to the U.S.?

Eh. I almost agree with him. But when it's all said and done, I'd rather have a hecho en Mexico Camaro than no Camaro at all.

Was a typo...

How many Porsches do you think will be exported to the US for every Corvette that is exported to the EU (a much larger market)?

You said the ZR1 would do fine competing with Porsche.

Can I ask you a question. The ZR1 is the pinnacle of detroit performance and technology right? What engine does it have? Is it a 2 valve/cyl pushrod engine? I thought so. Extremely modern right? And lets take the cheapest 2010 porsche - Boxter/Cayman. What engine do they have? Is it by any chance a 4 valve/cyl direct injected engine? I thought so.

Need I say more?

What is with people and associating pushrods with antiquated? Yes, pushrods have been around a long time, but cams have been around at least since the 70s (I have an 85 motorcycle with dual-overhead cams for crying out loud). Why should it matter how the engine goes about its business? What really makes a good modern engine is the efficiency of the thing at converting heat into mechanical energy, since that is what all the technology is supposed to be used for. Look at the efficiency:

Cayman, 245hp 201ftlb 20/29mpg
Corvette, 430hp 424ftlb 16/26mpg

It's not even fair comparing those two engines: one offers Ferrari f430 power with bmw fuel economy, while the other doesn't even offer cobalt ss power with cobalt ss fuel economy (note: both base engines). The point is, it isn't how an engine does its job that matters, it's how well it does its function.

All these comments and what?
Don't you American people have a little self-esteem and national pride?? shameful.

I laguh at you people. You find any reason not to support American Brands. It's always the unions fault. Reality is Japanese massemblers are making more money per hour with bonuses than the Big Three workers are. To the intern who toured a GM facility and everyone was sitting around. It was your first day. How do you know why they were sitiing. Was everyone on lunch break? Or is that against what you stand for too. Because I know you, as a smart educated college student, don't take study breaks or eat lunch. All of those Thusday happy hours you go to are school related. Right? I have had Import and Domestic brands. My Honda Odyssey had its trans rebuilt twice in 18k miles. That along with rotors replaced, sliding door falling off its tracks, rattles and oil leaks. My Toyota Camry fared much better. It blew it engine due to the Famous Toyota Engine Sludge cover up. Six weeks without a car while Toyota sat on it to try and find out who was going to pay for the fix. My Dodge Ram? Almost 300k miles and still going strong with only normal maintenance. My Ford Focus? My son drives it now to school. About to hit the 200k mark. Now try and convince me who builds better vehicles. Not the Japanese. as far as I'm concerned;
THE JAPANESE BUILD JUNK!