I wouldn't put any money on the images you see here, as Japanese car magazines are famous for guesstimating as to what new vehicles will look like.
A test mule has been spotted on Toyota's test track, but with the front drive shafts removed...
Hmmm, might they be planning a RWD vehicle instead?
The question that sticks in my mind is why? Why is this being sold as a Toyota, and not a Subaru? Or better still, why not at least offer an AWD Subaru-badged model along with the assumed to be RWD Toyota version?
Full story here,
The question that sticks in my mind is why? Why is this being sold as a Toyota, and not a Subaru? Or better still, why not at least offer an AWD Subaru-badged model along with the assumed to be RWD Toyota version?
Full story here,
vvk says:
06:01 AM, 09/27/07
I think anyone who drives both AWD and RWD will be able to answer "why not AWD". A proper sports car MUST have RWD. Dynamically there is just no comparison. I enjoy AWD tremendously but compared to RWD it just feels... "close but no cigar."
Hopefully Subaru will relocate the engine behind the front axle on the RWD car. I see neither Legacy, nor Impreza platform as very suitable for a RWD chassis. Boxer engine aside, I think they need a completely new platform in order to pull this off.
As far as why Toyota and not Subaru -- isn't it quite obvious? Subaru has a certain image and reputation based on their exclusively AWD lineup. They also have rally background and to most people that spells AWD and soft, long-travel suspension. Something that needs a Scandinavian flick to be quick. Toyota NEEDs a sports car because they have a huge hole in their current lineup. Something that's more in line with their current Formula 1 image. Something entirely different from rally-inspired AWD vehicles that Subaru markets.
rsholland says:
06:50 AM, 09/27/07
"A proper sports car MUST have RWD."
Huh? So an AWD Porsche 911 turbo, or an AWD Audi R8, or an AWD Bugatti Veyron are not proper sports cars?
crowb says:
07:16 AM, 09/27/07
Maybe another reason would be the Toyota name sells a lot more cars, and they have a huge dealer network.
I wonder why this couldn't be done with a Scion Tc redesign? Toyota could maybe borrow the boxer engine, give the Tc a nice platform to work with and put some juice in that thing. They could still offer the entry level Tc so that they could advertise a low price and get the volume, but offer a sporty version, fun, still relatively cheap but with some oomph. If done properly it could come in cheaper than the Civic Si, offer lots of bang for the buck, and really appeal to a lot of people looking for a fun, inexpensive car.
Just my two cents though. I also liked those pictures on the link, however speculative they be.
vvk says:
07:23 AM, 09/27/07
Absolutely, unequivocally NO!
All cars you mention are exotics, not sport cars. A sports car is light, relatively affordable and rear wheel drive.
Honda S2000, Mazda MX-5, Porsche Boxter, Nissan Z, 20 year old Ferrari 308 -- that sort of thing :-)
rsholland says:
08:32 AM, 09/27/07
I think you will get a lot of arguments as to your very narrow definition as to what a sports car is.
Taking your argument a step further, there are those out there who swear that anything with roll-up windows (MG-B, etc.) is not a "true" sports car.
Sorry, but I don't buy it.
carboy28 says:
10:01 AM, 09/27/07
Well, two problems with the arguments on those definitions:
1.The Ferrari WAS an exotic
2.The Skyline is AWD and it's not really an exotic...it's a sports car
rsholland says:
10:15 AM, 09/27/07
And let's not forget the Subie B9 Scrambler 2-seat hybrid concept sports car, which unfortunately never made it into production.
I'm betting that it won't be too long before we see a small AWD "affordable" sports car from some car company.
SubyTrojan says:
10:19 AM, 09/27/07
vvk vs. rsholland - next week in the NASIOC.com OT forum (North American Subaru Impreza Owners' Club Off-Topic)! j/k
I think vvk and crowb are probably right as to why Toyota and not Subaru.
I'm not going to comment on the definition of a sports car. :o)
ateixeira says:
11:35 AM, 09/27/07
Not too long ago, when men were men, sports cars were open and had only roll-up curtains and weighed no more than 1800 lbs.
Today's benemoths would certainly not qualify, none of the above! ;-)
I think this is cool. It will be small and lightweight, plus they are talking about a low HP engine. It will be unique in that is may be the most affordable 4 seater RWD vehicle in the market.
ateixeira says:
11:36 AM, 09/27/07
The pic looks like the front of a Scion tC merged with a the rear of the old Celica. Oddly enough, the design works! Looks great! LOL
carlisimo says:
01:11 PM, 09/27/07
Oh gods, I hate these "what's a sports car?" discussions. The answer is always whatever that person has owned. Reminds me of the "what's a cabriolet?" argument that I once witnessed... the fold-down-windscreen side was winning, when someone brought out an old book and BOOM! ended the discussion with a woodcut of a 2-seat horse-drawn carriage labeled "cabriolet." The end.
I'll just call this a Celipreza and hope it gets a beefier rear-end than rumors suggest.
rsholland says:
03:28 PM, 09/27/07
I agree. I was even considering mentioning my WRX but I think vvk might have a coronary, as it's a "wagon," ...or is it? :)
sddoc07 says:
11:28 PM, 09/27/07
The reason that it would be called a Toyota is simple - this is as equal of a partnership as a Trump marriage is - it is painfully obvious who is actually in charge and calling all the shots (Toyota).
estreka says:
02:04 PM, 09/28/07
Cool, a Celica!
r33 says:
05:32 PM, 09/28/07
reason is simple,the ae 86.
the old toyota trueno its a light weight cupe that made a very strong image in japan and even outside the island ,ask for everyone who had saw a drift competition or a downhill race and they now whats about!
this car its said be a new version of the trueno,litle engine ,light weight rwd cupe whith low price.
and in my opinion its very welcome now ,when all the sport cars are getting bigger and fatter ,some light weight nimble sport afordable car is a good call!!
vvk says:
10:25 AM, 09/29/07
Very well said, r33!
r33 says:
08:47 PM, 09/29/07
thank you!