First Drive: 2008 Honda Civic Mugen Si Sedan

A Civic, any Civic, simply makes no sense in this price range. You're frighteningly close to EVO and STI prices, and simply way out of your league at that point. They even borrowed the STI's spoiler and rally blue coloring.
 
The target market will probably love the body kit, but that front bumper would tear off on the first speed bump you hit, or on my steep driveway for that matter.
 
This is more about having a rolling showcase for your very profitable line of Civic accessories, which I imagine will have no problem selling.

$30K and they didn't even upgrade the brakes?
This just makes the case much stronger for the stock Si.

it's a $30k Civic... Hmmm.... No thanks...

When you can't cough up the additional $3,000 for an S2K...
 
This is purely a collector's item. I could buy all the Mugen parts for cheaper than this.

Im still unsure why Honda even bothered with this car as the new JDM Civic Type R sedan would be cheaper, and is a MUCH better performer in ALL AREAS. It has 225hp, and more importantly an even flatter torque curve with more peak torque available. I think its near 160lbft range which for a normally aspirated 2.0 is outstanding. With bolt ons and Hondata K-Pro 245WHP (wheel horsepower) 160lbft isnt uncommon. Come on Honda, give the US enthusiats what they want, a REAL Type R! The Mugen concpet is great but the price is certainly not.
 
The JDM is edgier but still oozes that refinement thats rare in this class of car. Ive read where this JDM Civic R was almost a second quicker than a base S2000 at Tskuba. The JDM Civic R is the M3 of this segment. Its not the fastest or most powerful but it provides a great driving experience and its chassis composure superb.
 
Edmunds folks, I know driving experience has a lot to do with track times but you guys "only" could manage 109mph on the back straight? The guys over at TOV are reporting 115mph on the same straight using GPS based data logging equipment. Does more track experience explain the huge difference or maybe your particular cars brakes and tires were already abused?

Hondaacura4,
 
No, the car I was driving was in perfectly fine working order. We were getting good launches off the 180-degree Keyhole turn that leads to the backstraight and keeping our foot well and truly planted. I can't speak to TOV's numbers and their accuracy. However, it's worth noting that, top-flight IRL driver Dan Wheldon was only about four miles an hour faster in an S2000 at that same spot than TOV says its Civic was. Did TOV happen to mention whether or not they made it through Turn 7 at the end of that straight?

I can't see choosing this over an EVO or STI.

Jeff, Moderator from TOV states "In any case, it might be interesting to compare the cornering speeds that I logged with the Mugen Si to the data that's posted for an E46 M3 at Mid-Ohio. With a max speed of over 131mph on the back straight, the M3 is clearly a monster compared to the Mugen Si (I believe the peak speed I recorded there was around 115mph in the Mugen Si). " This quote was taken from a JDM Civic Type R vs BMW E46 M3 thread. This wasnt an exact performance comparison but rather how the 2 cars produce a simular driving experience.
 
This is Jeff from the thread on the Mugen Si, "I didn't have time to take the Mugen Si on the street loop, but out on track it felt quite good. As you'd expect, it felt like a more focused version of the base sedan. On fresh tires and brakes, balance around mid-Ohio was excellent, with some mild understeer rearing its head in the usual places. Later on, I drove the car again and apparently the BF Goodrich KDWs were pretty much spent because I fought a much greater degree of understeer on the first lap out (of course, I jumped out of an S2000 CR into it...). For the second lap I adjusted my strategy and it felt better. It's still easier to make it understeer than to effect rotation, but this just made my decision that much more difficult."
 
 Id just buy a Si/navi sedan and perform my own modifications.

So the $8000 over the standard Si basically gets you springs, wheels, a cheesy body kit and a loud muffler.
Pass.

hondacura4, what does "TOV" mean/stand for? Thanks! Please excuse my Honda n00bness.

TOV = Temple of VTEC, a Honda/Acura fan site (like NASIOC).

Suby, easily the best site for Honda enthusiasts. They actually get cars from Honda themselves test them and even created a 2006 Civic Si project car before the car was launched. Their information is very accurate and they get up close and personal interviews with Honda/Acura design teams, engineers, and even the biggest of the big wigs. They even had John Mendel (president of Honda Americas I think) in a Civic Si sedan autoXing, and he's quite good.
 
They have various high quality videos of just about every Honda or Acura model on various roads (tail of the Dragon) and tracks in the U.S. Also they give very in depth analysis of the vehicles. TOVA (Temple of VTEC Asia) is its sister site and they give detail on the things we Amercian Honda nerds want...like Type R's.

Thanks, Bob and hondacura4!
 
Sounds like a cool site!
 
What I don't understand is why didn't Honda have people drive the Mugen Civic Si before the S2000 CR. I would think people would have been more impressed with both if they did that.

Honda should have had a base Si at the event to compare it to the Mugen version. Suby, I agree, Honda should have made them drive the CR last.

Honda should have gave the U.S. this car.... http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=120576 .......instead.

How a 2800lb Civic can outrun a 2776lb S2K is beyond me. $25K is a fantastic pricetag. I would expect the next-gen Si to get that engine.

I totally agree, hondacura4. However, that car might end up being a $35,000 Civic here in the U.S. of A.

Im not sure Suby because the 97-98 and 00-01 Type R Intergras were only about $2500 more than a $21,500 GS-R at the time but Im unsure of the current Yen vs dollar rate. Im assuming the Evo and STi are built only in Japan, but other manufactureres have their high end sport compacts here, STi, Evo and a few others. I could see the Civic Type R sold here for around $26K.
 
Malaysia even got the real deal JDM CTR for their market after almost 10 years of begging Honda to give them a Type R badged vehicle yet the US gets shafted yet again. But theres hope. John Mendel SVP of Honda America was asked by TOV if the US would get another Type R vehicle and he stated "its certainly not out of the question".
 
Estreka, as far as the CTR vs S2000 its all about the torque curve with that motor. The VTC+i-VTEC on the K20a (Civic R) gives it a much broader and usuable torque curve than the F20/F22 plus you have to remember the S2000 is almost 8 years of age. The F20/F22s just have the regular old VTEC. The only real advantage the F has over the K is a more robust bottom end and slightly better flowing head design. But I understand your logic given that the S2000 is a purpose built RWD roadster vs the FWD Civic R being economy car based.
 
To give you a better perspective on how strong these K motors are, a good friend of mine has a 98 Civic HB with a internally stock K20a (2005 JDM Integra Type R) with custom race header, exhaust, cold air intake, and Hondata K-pro full engine manegement system. It runs consistent high 12's (traps in the 107-108 range) and its not even set up for drag racing, its a road race vehicle.

I could see, say, a modern Accord outrunning an '80's model Ferrari (IL should consider doing just that since they're equipped). But I have a hard time grasping a 7 year old S being wiped by a CTR.

It certainly wouldnt be an easy task for the Civic Type R but it is possible.