2007 Geneva Auto Show: Dodge Demon concept

The big question: is this another half-baked mx-5 competitor like the solstice or can the car really be an everyday vehicle? Pontiac made a car that is good only as a weekend convertible; the miata has always been everyday usable. What's the trunk space like? Can you open and drop the top from the driver's seat? Raise the top from the driver's seat? top down, is there still a trunk?

hey bluedot the solstice and its sky siblings are not halfbaked competitors if you even bothered to look at a newspaper or recent statstics you'll find that pontiac and saturn are selling faster than the MX 5 as for the demon its cool and i hope it makes production

gmguy, the solstice and sky and poorly conceived and poorly executed. Zero trunk and a ridiculous top mechanism ensure they're weekend only cars. The miata is an everyday car.
 
Gimme a call when the solstice moves 800k cars over its lifetime. Yeah...i'll be waiting on that one.
 
I see this car and it looks appealing enough but there are aren't any shots with the top up and the trunk looks mighty small. It seems all the american makes miss the fact that the miata is an awesome road racer but for a single person it's a realistic everyday car too. GM focused solely on the performance angle - forging usability, top design, trunk space, interior design and quality materials. Which route will Mopar take? given their current string of cars, the GM route is the likely alternative.

... when a Honda S2000 (front) and a Nissan 350Z convertible (rear) spent a night together at a Dodge hotel... and a Mazda Miata (interior) was there watching

It's ugly from every angle except the 3/4 angle.....then it's alright. The soltice (and the miata too) are waaay better looking than that....thing...

The Kappas are not even weekend cars unless you have your partner follow you in their car with the luggage.
 
Hopefully Chrysler group will learn from the Kappas and actually sweat the details with their offerings.

Ok I'll admit it the kappas are not perfect but if you look at recent statstics between this car its sibling the Sky and the miata you will see that the kappa twins sat on dealer lots for a far shorter timme than the mazda. the Miata sat on dealer lots for 71 days were as the kappa twins sat for a shorter period 30 to 40 dealer days (rough estimate). When you get the kappas in high performance configuration the GXP red line series they turn into decent roadsters. yes GM could have installed an auto retractable top and improve trunk space but if you ignore the few flaws on these cars you will find that GM has produced two roadsters that are cool and are a bargain

gmguy - they're not cool if you must:
 
1. Get out of the car to raise or lower the top. Live with a well-made, well-conceived two seater vert for a while and you would never forgive the egregious sin of making users get out of a tiny car to drop the top. Or raise it. Pull up to a stop sign, throw the roof back on an MX-5 - any era. Live it and the Solstice and Sky designs appear silly and totally without planning.
 
2. A trunk. Yeah, funny thing happened when people buy a weekend car - they want to be able to use it at least for an overnight trip with a sig other. The Miata's trunk, while not massive, will easily swallow a few duffel bags. Not so the Solstice. I couldn't even take a solstice to a track day that would require an overnight stay as we wouldn't have anywhere to put a change of clothes for two people. That's scary bad design.

GM did well for a v1.0. I'm sure they'll address the top issue in the next update.
 
This Dodge actually looks good. Like a Viper and a Miata had a baby, an angry baby!
 
It could sell, though, because the Miata is soft/feminine looking, and the roadster segment is predominantly male.

gmguy:
 
you mention the GXP redline series.. the mazdaspeed miata is bound to be much better.
 
edmunds agrees that the miata is better also
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=107290
 
as for the demon, it reminds me of the bmw z4. unfortunately the front reminds me of the S2k a bit as well..

If Dodge can make a tossable roadster like the Miata or S2K, they'll do well.
 
I do agree about the trunk and top arguments. One should never have to leave the vehicle to drop the top. Trunk space is often centered around golf bags. A proper trunk should be able to hold 2 sets of clubs.
 
As for styling, this thing is hot. It's got an Audi TT rear end and obviously takes many design marks from the Copperhead concept oh so many years ago. If the interior is as good as it looks, this will do very well indeed.

The Solstice and Sky are selling based on looks, and most recently the powerboost for the GXP and Redline models. Look outside that and it has glaring faults, two of them mentioned above. The MX-5 is a solid, well built car, one that has a 15 year history to build upon. It's functional, livable and still retains the Miata character that has been around from model change to model change.
 
I'd like to see Dodge put the efforts in to REALLY match the Miata and even the S2000 head on. Don't cut too many corners and they'll be successful.

I agree, they are selling because they look good and becasue they are the latest new thing. Where will they be after 3 years?.. that's the real test.
 
Remember, the Fiero sold great in it's 1st year or so too.
 
As for the Demon, I like it.
 
Wonder if a Hemi will fit... thinking modern Cobra at Miata prices here....

I hope they don't do the Hemi thing. If they want the handling characteristics of a Miata or S2K, they'll need a high output 4 or maybe a 6. They already have a straight line beast, the Viper.

You're likely right but the problem with the Viper is the price. It's a rich boys toy.
 
The 5.7 Hemi is an inexpensive mass production engine. It would cost little more then a high tech 4 or 6.
 
Everyone else offers a sceaming 4, if Dodge wants to kick butt in this class, shoehorn in a rumbling V8!!!!

ATTENTION EVERYONE WHO SAYS THE MX-5 IS A BETTER EVERYDAY CAR THAN THE SOLSTICE: Roadsters are not meant to be driven everywhere everyday. You really shouldn't penalize the Solstice and Sky for not being cars that you can drive to and from work everyday in, run errands in, and take long trips in because that is not what they were made for. They were made for special occasions, short trips to friends houses, and just to show off how good they look. I also wish that some magazines and websites would stop penalizing roadsters for not being able to carry the whole family and their stuff, and stop penalizing family sedans for not being able to go from 0-60 in 3 to 6 sec. People, please judge cars in a certain segment on what the cars in that segment were made for. Not on what every other car in other segments are made for.
 
About the Demon, It looks good and I hope it does well for DCX.

okay - I didn't read through the posts so if I duplicate a response, I am sorry :D...
 
Anyway, I would expect to see some form of this car hit production, given Chrylser's track record with "concept" cars actually making it to production. The biggest reason? Chrysler wan't a piece of the pie that the Solstice and the Sky are eating. Not to mention the Miata. The itty bitty roadster dept is hot right now. Especially since any one of the 3 cars can be had for a reasonable price with decent performance.
 
Unlike the Viper or Vette dept, which has hot, fast powerful 2 seat roadsters, these cars don't take 80K to enjoy. So there is a market for them. Chrylser is a little late to the party, but they might still be able to get in on the action. I like the Sky's looks the best however, the Dodge is cool too. The Solstice and the Miata look a little to feminine for me.

In that color, it reminds me of the 350z roadster.

It looks off. Can't put my finger on it (maybe too lazy to try). The back is screwy.

The back reminds me of the Crossfrire (not a good thing)

hey guys, there's another article on edmunds with more engine info. i believe it said 2.4L I4 that made 172 hp? double check my info, but something like that. i think a SRT version will come out

Wow! It really seems like blueguydotcom is trying to jam his opinion down other people's throats... I do agree with him that the MX-5 is a superior car to the GM counterpart, but I disagree that it is in a different ballpark. I have driven both and would say that the GM products are 8/10ths of what a Miata (I know, MX-5, but whatever) is.
    Now before blueguydotcom gets his panties in a twist, I would like to remind him that Mazda has been in the roadster biz for almost 20 years, and that their first car was kinda rough around the edges, also. For clarification, the GM cars are a first generation vehicle, while Mazda has had 20 years to improve their product. Expecting them to be on equal footing with Mazda in this regard would be like expecting the first gen G35 to be on par with its BMW 3-series counterpart right out of the gate. I think GM should be congratulated for making such strides the first time around, and given some time to see how (or if) they can improve the product.
   As for trunk space (i.e. utility); how many people actually give a hoot about these items on a roadster. Not that many. If people wanted utility, they would buy a sedan or truck. Roadsters are meant to be the poor-man’s weekend toy. Conversely, Mazda should be applauded for making their vehicle somewhat utilitarian. But saying that, I think it's kind of like arguing whether Albany or Boston is warmer in February: both choices are left wanting.
   Finally, focusing on the Dodge... I think it is handsome, but I have been somewhat disenchanted with the interior materials and overall refinement (of the engines, NVH, and suspension) on recent Dodges. I have to wonder if this concept will be as half-baked as the Nitro. I guess the biggest question is: What kind of engine are they going to put in it? Hopefully, the one going into the Caliber SRT-4 (which with all luck, will not have the harshness and turbo lag issues of the last SRT 4 cylinder).
 
PS... blueguydotcom, if you are even going to compare the Solstice/Sky cars to a Dodge products, to make me look like I don’t know what I am talking about, let me tell you that the ergonomics of the GM products are better than the Dodges, and that the handling/power-delivery of the Solstice/Sky is far superior. -T

power delivery? i thought the transmission wasn't that great on the solstice/sky?

Now before blueguydotcom gets his panties in a twist,
 
Nice use of ad hominem. Feminize my views and therefore, you take the butch side. Good call.
I would like to remind him that Mazda has been in the roadster biz for almost 20 years, and that their first car was kinda rough around the edges, also.
 
No it wasn't. We had a 91 miata. It was a blast. Barely had over 100 hp but it weighed next to nothing and you could stuff that trunk and flip the top back from the driver's seat. That car made more trips between sacra-hell-to and san diego than one can imagine. Fine for trips and great for tearing around in the sun with the car sideways and the crappy pull-out-tape-deck blaring.
 
For clarification, the GM cars are a first generation vehicle, while Mazda has had 20 years to improve their product.
 
You leapfrog a competitor when you're late to the game. Mazda jumped right over the MG and opel inspirations. At the very least do something that goes beyond in some measure.
 
be like expecting the first gen G35 to be on par with its BMW 3-series counterpart right out of the gate.
 
 Still you said it yourself, the Solstice is 8/10s. So GM, as always, missed the boat. They put style over function. The MX-5's philosophy was based on simple principles of fun, functionality and reliability. The miata outa the gate took the spirit of the old MG and improved on the MGs it copied. funny, Mazda's first try and they improved on a classic instantly - light, RWD, water-tight, and reliable. Hmm, they didn't fall back on the "it's our firs time" sob story. And Mazda is tiny while GM's the biggest on the block, yet their marking/design guys never said, "Hey, maybe the top should fold from the seats...like our chief competitors? Some trunk space - even a tiny hole like the MR-S would be nice."
 
As for trunk space (i.e. utility); how many people actually give a hoot about these items on a roadster. Not that many. If people wanted utility, they would buy a sedan or truck. Roadsters are meant to be the poor-man’s weekend toy.
 
There you go, it can be used on a weekend. Obviously, you've never looked at the solstice trunk - or lack thereof. It's not a car you can take to Santa Barbara for the weekend with your spouse...unless you decide not to change or use toiletries all weekend. You literally can't fit a duffel bag in the trunk. A tiny gym bag...nope. I guess your spouse can drive with a bag on her lap. Fun trip. Don't stop anywhere for lunch or you'll have to take the bag inside as there's no trunk to put it in!
 
Finally, focusing on the Dodge... I think it is handsome, but I have been somewhat disenchanted with the interior materials and overall refinement (of the engines, NVH, and suspension) on recent Dodges.
 
Agreed. I end up with many dodge rentals and their quality's appalling.

if it lost some body weight (which might be a problem for dodge) and was given a sutable motor (something other than the sky/solstice) yea this little roadster might have potential enough to take on the MX-5 miata. This concept would be a very good thing for dodge, if it was fast and relatively in expensive it would catch alot of buyers.

Comparing the Miata to any other roadster is a bit unfair. It was revolutionary for its time. To leap frog the Miata would be like leap frogging Honda in innovation, or Mercedes in luxury. Mazda just had a great car at the perfect time, much like the NSX back in '91 or the Caravan in the '80s. They took a good idea and made it fantastic.
 
The Miata is a legend in its own right and no roadster (not even my beloved s/c-ed S2K) could ever take that away from it.
 
Also, you forgot to mention the Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce. Alfa USA ceased to exist after the Miata. ;-)

The styling is a melange of S2k, Z4, and 350Z, but still manages to look like a Dodge -- in a good way. I like it.
  
Weighing in the trunk debate.... I drive a convertible sports car, and getting a usable trunk was an absolute necessity when I chose it. I figure if I can't drop my sweetie in the passenger seat and a few bags in the trunk for a weekend jaunt along the coast, it's not worth owning.

To leap frog the Miata would be like leap frogging Honda in innovation, or Mercedes in luxury.
 
The original 35k Lexus LS400 did just that to Mercedes. :)

Bluedot I can't belive that once again im wasting my precious time responding to your rants. The orgininal Lexus LS400 was a great car for its time but mercedes has surpassed lexus on almost all of their car models with exception to their flagship model. Also bluedot if you think the solstice and the sky are such bad vechicles explain why it has a quicker 0 to 60 time than a porsche boxster and also explain why it has better fuel economy on the freeway than both the scion XB and TC and while were at it bluedot maybe you would also like to explain how it has more torque than a mercedes SL65 roadster. Maybe before you try and shove opinions down peoples throats why don't you look at the facts Mazda had 20 plus years to revise there car GM is only on the first generation and personally for a first try they did pretty well. Also if you bother to look at previous reviews like what one poster here suggested. You will find that the first few model years of miatas were rough around the edges. To say that The GM cars are "halfbaked competitors" as you called them is not true. These cars emphazize performance and if you get both the solstice and sky in GXP and redline configurations they easily trump a miata. Who gives a crap about trunk space the whole point of these cars is to outperform the competition

The orgininal Lexus LS400 was a great car for its time but mercedes has surpassed lexus on almost all of their car models with exception to their flagship model
 
The LS400 rocked the world for MB and BMW. Not sure what universe you're living in but the Lexus' flagship changed the game completely for those two companies. suddenly there was a reliable, solid, well engineered alternative to Germany's reigning kings.
 
Also bluedot if you think the solstice and the sky are such bad vechicles explain why it has a quicker 0 to 60 time than a porsche boxster
 
That's the most illogical argument ever. The SRT-4 from dodge was lightning quick too...didn't make it a good car. Are you honestly saying a Solstice is a better driver's car and every day car than a Boxster? Please say it. I'm sure the Porsche fans will get a good chuckle out of that one.
 
Maybe before you try and shove opinions down peoples throats why don't you look at the facts Mazda had 20 plus years to revise there car
 
Mazda came out with an MG/Alfa clone and beat those out of the gate with a better all around car. First try. Little tiny Mazda. GM is the 800 lbs gorilla and unlike Toyota, they can't seem to grasp that when you come to the party late, make a really big splash.
 
You will find that the first few model years of miatas were rough around the edges.
 
rofl. Reviews? Read this outloud: my family owned a 1991 Miata. I described the car's day-to-day usability in my last post to you. Did you just gloss over that? There was nothing rough about the NA MX-5 for the time. In the 90s the car interior, fit and finish, drivetrain, etc were all on par for that price range. Maybe you don't recall the NA models at the time of their introduction but they were a sensation expressly because they took the spirit of the MG and improved upon the MG: exceptional handling, great build quality, trunk space and reliability, all in a fun, economical package.
 
Who gives a crap about trunk space the whole point of these cars is to outperform the competition
 
Some of us do care. Some of us like having a weekend roadster and by weekend roadster, I mean a car that can be used for a weekend cruise to the mountains or Malibu. You know, toss a soft bag with clothes in the trunk, your baby hops in the passenger seat and you tear off, top down, to enjoy the sun while you dash around corners.
 
If you're after pure performance, why not get a motorcycle? Honestly, you already said you don't care about trunk space or top operation, so just forgo a trunk and roof altogether. That's preposterous, isn't it? I mention it because in the market that the MG defined and the MX-5 carries on, the roadster is a two seater, rwd and it's a mix of pure driving fun with a dash of the wind-in-hair weekend coach...it's more than just track performance.
 
There's a reason Mazda has sold over 800k units. There's a reason the MR-S disappeared. One offered the blend - driving excitement, but also usability - and the other, was a blast to drive but had glaring limitations for weekend or day-to-day use.
 
The solstice for those who want a strict track car is a fine deal. Especially stripped (even though it's still pretty heavy).
 
In 3 years we'll see if the Solstice still selling strongly. In 5 I'll be shocked if it's still even around. Maybe.

You get a huge amen from me on that one gmguy. Don't read bluedots comments anymore. He is just a crazy, out of touch with reality person that does not know what he is talking about.
 
By the way did anyone happen to read my last post?

Blueguy summed it up perfectly. If you think the slightest bit of utility with a two seat roadster is hogwash, get a motorcycle.
 
"...GM products are better than the Dodges, and that the handling/power-delivery of the Solstice/Sky is far superior."
 
Did you roadteast the new Dodge already? Please share your experiences. Thanks.

I can't think of a single year of the Miata where one would consider it "rough around the edges." Every single year the engine has been peppy, the chassis tossible and light, and the utility quite adequate.
If you're concerned about reliability, I recommend you check Consumer Report. I think you'll find the Miata has been quite consistent throughout the years.
 
In any case, this blog is about the Dodge Demon concept. Please try to stay on topic.

Did anybody happen to notice that gmguy is defending gm. And anythngbutgm is defending anything but gm. So, a lot of this argument is just opinions. All of the gm fans think that the Solstice/Sky are good cars and dont like the MX-5. All of the fans of other car companies like the MX-5 and not the Solstice/Sky. Very few facts are being used to make points.
 
I say that neither the Solstice/Sky or MX-5 are bad cars. The Solstice and Sky are not as bad as people are making them out to be. I highly doubt that anyone on here has even driven a Solstice or Sky. I am a person that has actually driven both a Solstice and a Sky and the lack of a trunk does not overtake all of the bright spots on them. The MX-5 does edge them out overall but they are still very good cars and I would choose either the Solstice or Sky anyday over the MX-5.
 
EVERYBODY PLEASE ACUALLY READ MY COMMENT THIS TIME AND TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK. Instead of ignoring it like you did the last couple of times.

Driving my aunts mint 92 Miata and a friends 2001 S2000 actually made me purchase a 2002 S2k for my wife last year, so I have experience in this area. On that note, I have to agree with Bluedot. With 5 kids under 10 (2 sets of twins and a single) , a wife, a full time career, and co-owner of a business the S2000 makes a great stress reliever.
 
GMguy, all out power doesnt make a decent car better it just makes it faster. Sure the Solstice looks good on paper and in person but drive one and it leaves you wanting. In this arena its not about brute power its about finesse, refinement and postive feedback. The car has to work with you and make you want to drive it hard, the Solstice doesnt offer that. Overall the Solstice/Sky concept is outstanding but the execution is way off.
 
I drove my cousins Solstice at our family reunion last year. The gearbox sucks, the motor didnt like to rev, the Solstice actually worked against me. OTOH, the Miata is slick, refined, and enjoys to be revved, has a great gearbox and it has usuable space. The 2.0 engine is slick and makes good noises.
 
GM seriously needs to work on the drivetrain of the base car because I absolutely hated the 2.4, its like it had molasses in place of engine oil, and the noises it made werent inspiring. No, Im not a GM hater Im just giving my simple opinion on the car I drove. These small details (refinement, feedback, finesse) do matter in any car especially one with sporting intentions.
 
Anyway, the Dodge concept looks a bit odd but it is different, which is good. I just hope if they do decide to make it, it wont come to the market with the current Dodge 2.4 and some stick in a bucket of rocks manual tranny. Given Dodges past history with sport compacts, unfortunatley it looks as it will.

After I read my post a few times it looked like I was bashing the Solstice, I wasnt trying to. The car is mechanically decent but the drivetrain left me ........cold. If GM could polish the car a bit more, refine the drivetrain, and make it NOT seem as if it were built to a price it could definatley be a winner.

I've been enjoying people rant about how not to read blueguydotcom's posts while they sound rabid. Good irony.
 
With the exception of the creases in the hood (too Crossfire), i think this car is a home run. When it comes to DC, the issue has never been styling. It's always been execution.

yes thank you lemont J and while bluedot is attempting to get in touch with sanity and reality lets get back to the dodge. It looks nice and it has an agressive face. makes you wonder why the rest of the dodge line up for example the new dakota looks bland. If dodge wants to compete in this segment and make a staement they should put a V8 in it notice how all the two door roadsters out now only have V6's. If Dodge makes this car and puts a V8 in it we would be looking at an awesome car

I think there are plenty of facts being thrown around here...
 
Fact 1: There is zero trunk space in the Kappa cars
Fact2: The ill fitting, ridiculously complex, cumbersome top is poorly designed
 
More facts you say?
 
How about these observations?
Fact - the seats are too low to the floor, the lower seat padding is paper thin, you can actually feel the crossbars beneath your butt. Sitting in these cars is like propping your self into the deep end of a swiming pool.
 
Fact - If you are 5'10" like I am, looking over your shoulder to see out the back is impossible unless you stick your arm down and prop your body up to see over those sexy, yet obstructive humps in the trunklid. Good for visibility, poor for driving habits.
 
Fact - the gearbox comes from a Colorado pickup truck. Therefore you get a gearbox that is clunky, notchy and sloppy, much like said pickup truck.
 
Fact - Redline and GXP versions of Kappas DO NOT recieve enhanced gearbox but retain said pickup truck box mentioned above. Extra Cog? Nah, that would require some extra efforts on GM's part.
 
Fact - The doors are big, flimsy and when closed sound about as solid as dropping the lid from a Tuna can on a Tile floor.
 
Fact - Bob Putz designed the Kappas to be cheap. Economy car roadsters built to a pricepoint. He achieved the "Cheap" part very well in both build quality and price.
 
The Miata is much more thoroughly designed. Quality is eminent from the first time behind the wheel. The Top goes up and down quickly, quietly and DOESN'T require you to exit the vehicle. It is solid, well built and offers more than flashy looks to get buyers. That's the facts. Dodge needs to strive for more Miata type car, not settle for a Kappa hype, um type.

bluedot,
Did you just read the first couple of sentences of my comment? It surely seems like you did.
 
gmguy,
Now to get back to the dodge like you said, I think that the back screams Audi TT. Thats not nescessarily a bad thing. The front looks ok, although, for me at least, it looks kind of odd. I think if Dodge trys to put a V8 in the Demon it would be too much power for it to handle. Judgeing by its size and the weight of it's main competitors a V8 would mess up all of the handling characteristics if they build it.

lemont - yeah I read and enjoyed your posts. :)
 
gmguy - do you insult people face to face or only with the anonymity of the internet do you use ad hominem debate tactics? You may disagree with me but please have the courtesy not to pepper your opinions with derisive comments. I have not insulted you, extend to me the same courtesy.
 
I sincerely hope Dodge aims for the MX-5. Given their lackluster offerings of late - the Nitro, Sebring, et al, I fear the demon will suffer the same fate. Shame as it's got panache. Give the car the propper treatment in terms of interior, usability and drivetrain and you'll steal sales from GM and Mazda.

k i'll admit blueguy I was slightly irritated when I typed that last post and I apologize for the insults but I do not use "ad hominems" and other fancy pants grammar tricks I was just presenting pure facts. Enough about the Kappas bluedot Lets focus on the car that this blog is about and thats the demon. While a hemi maybe be alittle too much for the demon to handle a V8 would make a statement in a segment that is mostly dominated by V6 powred roadsters including your favorite car the MX 5. and to conclude the Kappa debate once and for all Both Kappas are great cars and the red line and GXP cars are excellent roadsters. Are they perfect no of course not they have flaws but flaws aside these cars were built with performance in mind. As for the Demon Dodge should really make this vechicle and if not then incorporate some of the design cues. remember not too long ago when chrysler and dodge especially actually had great exterior design? Now it has gone down the toilet and with exception to the 300C and the viper the rest of the DCX lineup is starting to look stale. with cues from this vechicle the DCX lineup especially dodge would look fresh again

The Miata has a 4, last I checked.

I'm aware of that estereka but if you look at all the other two seater convertibles BESIDES the Miata you will see that a majority have V6 engines and that there are virtually no V8's in this segment. Dodge would make a statement putting a V8 in this thing

The Miata, S2K, Solstice, Sky, and TT each have 4s. And this segment has traditionally been comprised of 4 bangers (MR2, Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce, MG, et al).
 
Only the 350Z, Z4, Boxster, and SLK have 6s, and those are in an entirely different price bracket (except the Fairlady).
 
Yes there are high-powered roadsters out there, but Dodge already has one. Are you suggesting they have another? I don't see the case for a 400hp hemi Demon when Dodge has a 600hp Viper.

I highly doubt the person interested in this type of car wants a big V8 underhood. More power is always a good thing but if it comes with the sacrifice of chassis balance then whats the point? These types of ENTRY LEVEL roadsters arent about BIG POWER, they mainly focus on chassis dynamics, and feedback. Communication is key here.
 
The drivetrain HAS TO BE ENTERTAINING whether it has 100hp or 500hp. It has to be refined, smooth, responsive, efficient, and work with the CAR and the DRIVER. This is what people in this segment expect.

I'm not sure how long it's been since gmguy has apparently been near a Dodge or Chrysler dealership to be saying anything could be getting stale. The 300C (he states as an exceptoin) is one of the oldest in the entire lineup; except for the Dakota; which gets a facelift in 2008.
Dodge/ Chrysler have come out with some of the best products on the market in several years; they just lack the marketing skill to make use of them.
The 300C gets a stretched model for 2007.
The Sebring was completely reengineered as a major player for the Altima, Maxima, and Accord market.
The Nitro gives tons of utility & fun for the money.
2008 Avenger has the Charger style the market craves without the price.
Mega Cab is still the most spacious pickup for a road trip.
Chrysler Aspen gives Tahoe owners more room, better quality, and a lower price tag.
Dodge Caliber packs agressive style, great function, and good fuel economy at an inexpensive price.
 
What the Demon NEEDS is the next SRT-4 motor mated to a 6 speed gearbox and rear wheel drive.
 
There was nothing wrong with the original SRT-4 short of the NEON image that stuck with it and as with the latest home runs.. The company failed to market the product. The Mitsu Evo and Subaru WRX are now enjoying that the car they couldn't defeat stepped aside to let them run.
 
Just as if / WHEN Dodge decides to take the Suburban off its pedastal with the Cummins powered Megacab based SUV.
The rules will change.. again.

The sebring is a mess the back is so so but don't get me started on the front of that car. and you also forgot one car in my list of exceptions the Viper. Have you even botthered to look at the rest of the DCX line up. the magnum it looks ok nothing too drastic but it looks alright. The Avenger the illegitimate child of the charger/stratus. The redesigned dakota did anyone read the chicago show posts about this truck and see the hideous front they put on that thing? its repulsive. but Notice how I left out the Ram and SRT's on purpose because I have nothing negative to say about them. As for chrysler its alittle better but once again the sebring while the interior is an improvement. It has a face only a mother could love. and have any of you noticed the new food theme lately first with the minivans now the dakota whats next giant brownie cakes for the sprinter vans or even better free easy bake ovens for when the minivans go on sale. What chrysler needs more than anything is a big time marketing overhaul and if you need a obvious example of how far down the the toilet their marketing is all you need to do is flip on the "cityman promotion" for the compass. Also Chrysler needs more hit vechicles the 300C was a great start but one or two hit models won't keep the company afloat forever. Dodge has hits as well such as charger and of course the sick maniacs that build the SRT series. Also Chrysler needs to find a way to get rid of its massive vechicle surplus. My family keeps our 26 foot long travel trailer in a trailer yard and since the surplus started we see literally a sea of durangos caravans and other chrysler models for about a third of the total area of the yard. I know its just like this in other parts of the country and chrysler needs to find a way to get more of these vechicles out of surplus. As for the caliber I still have a Car and driver from May 2006 that critiqued the Caliber for its driving behavior road manners and the too cheap materials in the interior. and estereka I did some further research and you are right the cars you mentioned do have either 4's or 6's. the mercedes roadsters have a performace 6 but thats in a completly diffrent ballpark when it comes to price range

An Evo or STi couldnt defeat a SRT-4? What are you smoking. Yes, the SRT-4 was blistering fast but it couldnt hold a candle to the STi or EVO in terms of handling. These 2 cars are just in another league. Ive driven all 3 cars, some were modified and some were stock and while I liked the SRTs drivetrain the car itself SUCKED! Again, poor execution will get you NOWHERE!
 
I will agree that the Demon would be awesome since its RWD to add the 2.4 turbo to. But the stock 2.4 is certainly not setting any standards.

The reality is Dodge will never produce a car that can reproduce the lightweight, sports car feel of the Miata. IMHO no one can at that price. Even Honda's attempt is almost twice the price.
 
If the Demon comes out as a Miata fighter, the media will tear it apart and it will end up known as yet another nicely styled commuter car.
 
I really feel Dodge should go for the gold and put in a Hemi and sell it for the same price as a Sky or Miata.
 
You want to win in this game, stop following and go original.
 
The Sky like the MR2 and Fiero will fade from memory with time as would a 4 cylinder Demon..
 
No one will ever forget a Hemi powered Demon.

Looks decent, if a bit weird. A good base engine choice would be an all aluminum version of the 180 Hp 2.4 turbo out of the PT. I had a convertible PT as a rental once that I took to the Keys, and felt the engine was almost perfect. It wasn't extremely smooth, but it sounded good, was a torquey little monster, and didn't have any turbo lag. Even with an *Ultradrive* and on running on the recommended regular unleaded it was every bit as quick as a 3.5 SE Automatic Altima. I was actually pretty shocked. It'd be even quicker with a proper stick or a decent automatic, especially in the Demon which would probably be much lighter. Hopefully Dodge gets it right from the start.

FirstWagon, Hondas "attempt" at the Miata wouldnt be the S2000 as its in the next performance segment, it competes against BMW Z4's and Porsche Boxters. Hondas embarrasing attempt was the Del Sol which was wrong from the get-go. The only thing the Del Sol offered that was better was the optional and extremely rare 160hp 1.6 DOHC VTEC version, other than that the Miata didnt loose any sleep.
 
DGcamero, Id say if Dodge does produce this car there would be a higher performance version (SRT-4) with the 2.4 turbo. That car would certainly move. I hope Dodge does build the car and executes it correctly.