2012 Volvo S60 T5: Liking It More, Not Less

Nothing bugs me more than poor/delayed throttle response, so I would hate this car no matter what. I'm very concerned that the new turbo'd BMW 328i will suffer from this, although I'll be going for a manual which hopefully will prevent it.

At least they have some style and personality..unlike the German competitors. I like them.

@bodyblue

A front wheel drive car has no personality over it's German competitors. We have had 2 BMW's over the last 10 year's and they have been the most reliable car's I have ever owned, not sure why you slam them so much.

I did not say they were not reliable in this post....I just said they did not have a lot of style. That is what I meant by personality. And a FWD can have personality in spades. As for your BMW being reliable I am glad for you buddy! Not a lot of people can say the same thing. I slam German cars so much because they claim to have superior engineering but yet continue to have some of the worst reliability ratings in the business. That is hardly "superior". I am glad you have had good luck however as you always have something interesting to say.

ok bodyblue, we get it - you're not a fan of german cars. do you have anything else to contribute?

"I slam German cars so much..."

Incessantly repeating yourself is the style of the inconsiderate and petty.....which are you?

"I did not say they were not reliable in this post....I just said they did not have a lot of style. That is what I meant by personality. And a FWD can have personality in spades. As for your BMW being reliable I am glad for you buddy! Not a lot of people can say the same thing. I slam German cars so much because they claim to have superior engineering but yet continue to have some of the worst reliability ratings in the business. That is hardly "superior". I am glad you have had good luck however as you always have something interesting to say."

I use to think the same thing until we owned one especially about the 3 series and how great it was. I also thought my '11 Jeep was comparable to the Merc ML, after owning it for 9 months there is no comparison. I drove a base ML350 for a couple of day's when my parent's had a loaner and it was tighter with less rattles and felt quicker with a V6. I wouldn't have bought it either but the build quality is far better, and the reliability can't be worse than my Jeep.

I try not to buy cars that don't impress me immediately. 'Hoping' they'll improve is a little risky when you're spending so much money.

Instead, in some cases I've had the opposite experience - buying cars I liked at once, only to develop a disdain for them as time went on.

@bodyblue,

Personality is hard to define and means different things to different people. I think most German cars have strong personalities and I love their conservative sense of style. It is not an audacious personality by any means, but if you drive them enough you'll see just how unique each of the German brands feel in relation to one another and everyone else.

They aren't like Subarus where you are hit in the face with personality the second you turn the key and hear that lawn-mower-esque boxer-4 roar to life. Rather, their personality is more subtle and only fully appreciated after prolonged exposure.

Hey at least hooklyn has some fans!

Erin, if you're experiencing that much turbo lag, I'd recommend you drop by the dealer for a look-over. The T5 engine is noted for its flat torque curve - starting at 1500 rpm. I have a C30 T5 and the engine has torque everywhere (granted I have a 6 spd).

Since you have "Safe and Secure", it'll be free......

bodyblue's opinions about all things German makes it seem like he's from the 1940s and we are still in WWII... Still remember flying your P38 ya ole geezer?

Mercfan, you've been here long enough to know its better to just ignore his posts, there is no rationalizing with someone like him. I've been in numerous arguments with him were I state facts yet his reply always seems to lack maturity; seemingly going back to assumed reliability, how they all look the same, or are overpriced, not acknowledging truths, and when he gets too frustrated he retorts with name calling defamation. There's no point either, he's never had the pleasure of owning a German vehicle so he doesn't really understand what he's missing or really what else is out there. Think about it, you're trying to prove the point of a luxury European good to someone who considers a 1996 Stratus as adequate transportation and a Avenger as over the top for his needs. It is like the Rolex vs. Seiko comparison. The seiko will probably be more reliable but which one is beautifully crafted with countless passionate man hours put into its creation? Which one has more meaning behind it and will be passed down through generations?

For example when I bought and drove my S-Class it was almost like an event because of the emotion behind it. You know your purchasing a car from the company that invented the motor vehicle and from the leader of almost every single major safety innovation (crumple zones, perfection of the airbag, ESP, etc.) besides the 3 point seat belt (Volvo) in a modern automobile. Even though they were the ones funding for the development of these break through features, they weren't greedy as they didn't file patents on them so they could be immediately implemented across all automobiles. You can feel the over 100 years of innovation through the precision and fluidity of every instrument and control, the way it goes down the road, and the way the car communicates with you by filtering out the road imperfections and only relaying necessary information. It is a feeling that can barely be described but unforgettable once you have experienced it. Sadly, "old dogs don't learn new tricks," he is only ever going to view a luxury European automobile as status symbol and nothing more (and then make derogatory remarks in his posts knowing others will see it). He is the resident troll as he literally lives on here and if you peruse through any article regarding a German automobile, you are likely to see one of his posts bashing it or anyone in support of them (which is a lot of people). I find it humorous how if you point out a flaw in any vehicle he is a proponent of he gets very personally offended, he the most hypocritical person I have encountered on this site. Last time I confronted him with facts he went around saying that I was lying about owning my vehicle in completely random and separate posts as an analogy, now it seems like hooklyn is his new target.

Ok rant is over back to ignoring the troll...

@panamera,

I don't know, through my experience ole BodyBlue is usually pretty understanding. Certainly he isn't a fan of German cars (and he does cling to a few tired cliches) and he doesn't agree with me most of the time, but I don't need, nor expect him to. The thing about cars is that most of the time it all comes down to emotion. Once we stop spouting statistics it becomes hard to quantize why one car is better than another. Arguing about opinions is just silly. I think he takes a lot of flak on this site because he isn't an enthusiast and most of us are. I actually find his opinions quite illuminating because he views cars in the way the average person does.

I suggest putting the transmission in Sport mode by moving the lever to the right, then see what off the line response is like. In my experience, the T5 is one of the most lag free turbos I've driven. And I quite like the sounds it makes.

@mercedesfan

I agree with you to a point. There is, however, a difference between stating your point and belittling those who are enthusiasts. Personally, I find BB's theory that auto manufacturers don't pay attention to criticism, and therfore can't be hurt by some of the mean-spirited comments made about their products, is shortsighted. It's the people behind those manufacturers who put the long hours into these designs and ultimate fight to see their ideas come to life. All of them have to deal with compromise and all of them have to deal with schedules. As I've said before, what if we put ourselves in their shoes. How would you feel? I know designers and engineers alike who really care about the work they do, so to have some blogger come swooping in and act callously is just ridiculous and inmature. It's not only BB who acts this way. I find the whole Bloggersphere is rife with bad manners and callous comments. It as if the internet has stripped all of us of good manners and humanity.

As for German cars. Although I've wanted one countless times, I have always been a little weary of their reliability, which is why I've constantly gone back to Mazda, since I find they have a good balance between reliability and performance. But I may make the leap next time around. A friend of mine who has always driven European cars (Audi, BMW, SAAB) currently has a Infiniti M37 that he'll be trading in for an Audi A6. For him although the M37 is a nice car he says that he finds a certain passion/personality lacking in Japanese cars, as if despite their technology and solid engineering are still assembled "by the numbers". He goes on to say that despite the relibaility concerns (Based on his personal experience he considers these allegations blown out of proportion) he still finds something unique and cohesive about German cars. FWIW, He's had very few issues with his BMW's and Audi's. The worst car he had was a second year, second gen X5 but follows it up by saying the third year, second gen X5 was completely solid after 70K.

So I think much of this, like the whole Toyota fiasco comes down to politics rather than reality. At least in this day and age. Watch some of the Nat Geo Ultimate facotries and you'll see that the manufacturing process for many car companies is VERY similar.

"Personality is hard to define and means different things to different people. I think most German cars have strong personalities and I love their conservative sense of style. It is not an audacious personality by any means, but if you drive them enough you'll see just how unique each of the German brands feel in relation to one another and everyone else."

Well put - the conservative, understated style while having a strong, distinct personality is what draws me in to German cars.

The cars that truly are "greater than the sum of their parts" are always the best- not notable in any one area but does well in all conditions makes a car your best friend. The Volvo just about has it, and in truth it has a lot going for it. They just need to ditch the turbo 5.

As for the discussion about German cars... from a subjective viewpoint I find most of them to be really boring. Sure, when they're built well and working they are very competent, unfortunately they aren't really "fun" in any sense. I never understood where this idea came from, and I've driven cars like the C63 AMG and Golf GTI.

Forget about reliability for a second (and honestly, it doesn't matter if you're only keeping your car for three years and under 100K miles). There's a kind of redneck fun you get from driving an American car like a Dodge Challenger or Charger with dramatic looks and where you can light up the rear tires and hear a growl every time you dip deep into the throttle, or an "on the edge" frenetic feeling driving Japanese cars like the Honda Civic Si or S2000 when you're caning it (at mostly legal speeds even!), that you don't get with German cars. Everything I've ever driven outside of a 3-series (the 328i and M3 were actually exceptional) and Cayman (which I've been in at an autoX) has felt really tame, something that you simply take to work in but nothing you would actually go down a back stretch with.

@duck87,

Appreciating more traditional German cars, at least for me, came with age. When I was growing up I LOVED Bimmers for their rawness and connection to the driver. My parent's Benzes were lovely cars, but I always wanted something more engaging. In fact, in '93 when my parents got me my first car (a Benz) I was a little disappointed. I grew to love that C280 for the simple fact that I drove it 250,000 miles without a single breakdown, but once I had saved up enough to buy my own car I went straight to Audi because it's cars were unique and fun.

However, as I've gotten older, settled into a career, and had children things have changed. I'm not looking for a high-strung daily driver anymore. To me, my daily driver is now where I relax. After a long day in the office slipping behind the wheel of my S550 instantly calms me. I've never kept a car this long, but even after 6 years I still look forward to getting into that car in the morning. It sure as heck is no canyon carver (I have my M3 for that), but it is the most thoroughly engineered, most completely developed, most painstakingly thought-out car I've ever driven. Everything about the way the car goes down the road is refined, fluid, and effortless. I love that I can enjoy just sitting in traffic (which I do a lot now) because the car's virtues are as apparent under part-throttle as full-throttle. Furthermore, the car still rides firmly and communicates the road to the driver with clarity. In a German car you aren't isolated from the road, just its imperfections so the enthusiast at heart is still satisfied.

None of that would have really mattered to me ten years ago. I was young and hormones were still raging. You do change once you have kids, though. Now tranquility, even when driving aggressively, is the greatest luxury of all. That is what makes Germans cars so special to me.

panamera...the reason you dont like my discussions with you is that you always get your ass handed to you by real facts. Just like the ignorant statement that the Pheaton was a "quality" car when it was in reality a pile. I posted the facts for you and you left the thread in a huff. As for people saying I hurt peoples feelings ROFL sorry but that is just real life. I am only rude to people that are rude to me first. Often I post hard facts that people dont like then the take it personally then attack me. I dont hesitate to respond so I am the villain. Oh well. And mainly it is the Eruro-whiners (not MBfan...we always have a good time bantering.....we have never had a cross word..EVER because I respect him because he never got personal. Those that have not noticed that need to wake up and see the truth. Just because I dont agree with you does not mean I dont like you. But if you troll and BS and say stupid things that are in no way true.....I will hammer you. Those are the boobs that have the biggest problems. :)

"Think about it, you're trying to prove the point of a luxury European good to someone who considers a 1996 Stratus as adequate transportation and a Avenger as over the top for his needs. It is like the Rolex vs. Seiko comparison. The seiko will probably be more reliable but which one is beautifully crafted with countless passionate man hours put into its creation? Which one has more meaning behind it and will be passed down through generations? "

Good example of snobbery and ignorance over substance. It is cool to pass down a broken watch to someone? Give me a break! I understand your point but dismiss it as ignorant and full of arrogance. What one possess has nothing to do with how good a person they are. How shallow and boorish you appear. The working slob driving a broken down Pinto has a ton more class than you.

Erin pretty much nailed my experience with my own S60 T5...

Btw regarding the automatic transmission, it's definitely a software thing.