2012 Fiat 500 Sport: Abarth to be Abargain?

I'm holding out for the Fiesta ST (180 hp and a 6-speed). Hopefully Ford can keep it under 2,600lbs.

Fiat's biggest problem in the American market is the reputation they earned for poor reliability in the late 70s and 80s. Those of us who who watch the global auto industry closely know that Fiat has gotten a lot better since then, but before Fiat can realistically compete with anything sold in America they need to repair their image. The factory warranty on the 500 doesn't show much confidence in the product and I think that will hurt them in the years to come.

Cooper S will beat it like a rented mule.

@mcjuke: There's no one walking into a studio right now thinking "Hmm, I hear these had some issues 30 years ago when they were built with completely different parts in different factories by a bunch of guys that are dead or retired now; better get a Ford ("Found Onthe Road Dead") instead, since that Pinto was such a winner. Well, okay, no one that isn't a complete idiot...

@epbrown

You give people way too much credit but I guess I can't fault you for that. Can we at least agree that you'd have to be an idiot to choose an Abarth over a Mini Cooper S, whatever the reason?

@jukiemcjuke

You'd have to be just as dumb to fork out that kind of money for a Cooper S which is expensive and unreliable, expensive to fix and hasn't proven otherwise. It's definitely a great car to drive, and better than the Fiat in terms of outright performance-handling,but the whole Fiat reliability issues are overblown and Mini's are far from being the example of longevity and durability. Just check out insideline's Countryman and Automobile Mag's Mini.

Whether it's Fiat or Bmw, European cars are more or less on the same page when it comes to reliability these days. People confuse soft-touch plastics and clunking doors with reliability and longevity. Perceived quality is not that you gives you a 10 yrd old reliable car.

@ blueguydotcom and jukiemcjuke,
I'm curious as to how you two came to such concrete conclusions of how the Abarth would fare against the Cooper S. We have yet to drive the Abarth, so I'm pretty sure that neither one of you have driven it either. That said, the Cooper S will be hard to beat as far as handling, but let's not count the Abarth out before we give it a fair shake...

+1 johnnyturbo

Bad enough forming stong opinions on cars based only on reviews (which we all do) but to have such a negative opinion on a car that isn't here yet is foolish.

"The factory warranty on the 500 doesn't show much confidence in the product and I think that will hurt them in the years to come."

So they're offering a 4/50 powertrain and bumper to bumper warranty what is so bad about that?

And let me guess Kia's aren't good cars because of the ones that made it to the shoreshere in the 90's??? Yet they offer one of the best warranties on the market?

BTW Nissan doesn't exactly have a stellar warranty either, and frankly it's laughable compared to the one offered by Hyundai and Kia.

@first -

It's not really a new car. Variations on this car have been around for some time.

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/234172/abarth_500_esseesse_v_mini_cooper_s.html

There will be slight changes but overall they're not gonna make something more hardcore for the marshmallows of the USA.

jukiemcjuke wrote: Can we at least agree that you'd have to be an idiot to choose an Abarth over a Mini Cooper S, whatever the reason?

Sorry but no. In fact, I'll likely end up owning a 500 Abarth myself, as I like the 500 Sport more than the base Mini.

Bear in mind that reviews are infotainment, to some extent. The facts are true, the impessions are honest, I'm sure. But it's more dramatic to say "The Mini Cooper S beat the 500 Abarth like a rented mule" than to say "Honestly, the difference in performance here is so small that few people would even notice it day-to-day." The fact that the Mini Cooper S is faster around the Nurburgring? Interesting, but no real impact on the ownership experience.

What *would* impact my ownership experience day to day is the Mini's run-flat tires. I hate those (and so does Edmunds, if their Long Term Blog of the Cooper S is a guide), so that's a grand at least to replace 4 brand new tires. The higher MSRP of the Mini is already equal to 2 years' worth of Starbucks, or a set of used RGRs for my BMW; pretty hefty impact. Then there's the Mini's smaller interior, reducing utility, coupled with it's larger exterior, reducing parking options on Chicago's congested North Side (30 minutes a day looking for a spot is 5.4 days/year!). Day-to-day, the FIAT would be the better choice for me.

As for FIAT's old rep for reliability, compared to the Mini Cooper S, here's a quote from Insideline: "Even 50 years after the stereotype took hold in the imagination of American car enthusiasts, there's a lot of negativity surrounding the reliability and practicality of British automobiles." They're discussing the Mini Cooper S long-termer they had. Yep, turns out when the Brits left the market they weren't seen as the pinnacle of reliability in the US either. To quote Pete Townsend, "sometimes... people forget."

You can counter that the Mini isn't really British - the engine is French, the trans is German, the car's just assembled in a place legendary for poor reliability (England). Except the FIAT's engine is built in the US, the trans is Japanese (iirc) and the car's just assembled in a place legendary for poor reliability (Mexico). So call it even.

The long-term MCS was fine, btw - just a few niggling issues fixed under warranty. Sort of like the 500 Sport they're running now, which is past its halfway point as a long-termer.

I don't think the Abarth is going to help Fiat much. Oh I'm sure they'll sell a fair number. More than a few posters here have been waiting for the Abarth since day one. But I think that, like the current 500 sales, once those in waiting are taken care of, Abarth sales will fare about the same as the rest of the lineup.

Why? It doesn't fix the fundamental problems that the 500 faces. More power? Sure. More grip? Probably. But relative to the competition (Mini), it's still a step or two behind (worse than the EU model as someone pointed out since much of the 500's weight advantage disappears for the US models). It retains the same polarizing styling as the regular 500, only the attempt to butch it up comes off as more JC Whitney than JC Works. Clearly the 500 appeals to a certain subset of buyers, but it isn't broad enough IMO. And lacking the polish that the Mini has developed as it has matured makes it that much more difficult.

p.s. - the photo on this blog post finally made it click for me what bothers me about the 500 styling. Chop the car horizontally along that cutline 6" below the side windows. It looks like the upper part is half of a car, and the lower part is 2/3 of another car. Then someone stacked them and got this disproportionately tall thing that looks like a bad photo crop.