The more I drive our longterm 1985 Porsche 911, the less I want to drive it. And here's the thing: I like 911s.
I've driven 911s of many vintages and this particular example stands out as atypical. Josh is right about a lot of what makes it unpleasant to drive. It has nothing to do with its salvage title status as some commenters have opined. No, our car is suffering from owner improvements that have spoiled the cohesiveness of the controls, a characteristic that Porsche nowadays does better than any other automaker.
Our 911 needs more ride height (more suspension bump travel), less wheel spacers and/or larger offset wheels. This would improve its bump compliance, reduce steering effort and kickback and bump steer. As it is, Jordan's had some caster dialed out to reduce the steering effort but to me this is a band-aid to the issue of excessive scrub radius resulting from the small wheel offset.
In the "they all do that" column, this thing's shifter remains a pain in the ass. There's nothing enjoyable or rewarding about navigating the 915 gearbox. And the shifter in our car, according to several Porsche gurus who've used it, is as good as they get. The G50 'box that came in '86 is a hundred billion times better than the 915.
Also, the new tires. Holy crap are they loud. These are tractor tires, not car tires.
On the plus side, our car has retained that uncanny hunger for velocity that even early 911s exhibit. You get them on the freeway at 80 and it feels like 20. It just feels rock steady at speed, goading you to ever higher speeds.
Lately I've been thinking maybe we should pick up a dead-stock 964 C2 (1990-94 911). The 964 was nearly an all-new 911 at the time of its introduction and addressed many of the shortcomings of the earlier cars. 964s had some niggles of their own, so a longterm test would be instructive. By being dead-stock we'd be able to evaluate it on its own merits rather than commingling the dubious sensibilities of previous owners.
Think a longterm 964 is a good idea? Leave a comment below or send an email to insideline.editor@edmunds.com.
--Jason Kavanagh, Engineering Editor
mtakahashi says:
11:33 AM, 01/13/12
More for me! I have the 911 for the weekend, but I'm leery of the new tires. Another drive to wring it out is in order.
s197gt says:
11:37 AM, 01/13/12
no more 911s.
it is clear that the average joe should not buy an older 911 unless they have lots of money, a knowledgeable mechanic, and the car has a good service history.
and apparently even if you like 911s, you may not like the one you get, so do lots of homework and think it through carefully.
next classic please...
panamera4 says:
11:40 AM, 01/13/12
It's an excellent idea! That is what I advocated from the beginning. Send the plague to the crusher, I couldn't justify selling that to someone in its current condition.
texases says:
11:45 AM, 01/13/12
+1, panamera4 - same here, I had hoped the first IL 911 would have been what JK's now talking about. Not much chance now, I bet...
doss1 says:
12:00 PM, 01/13/12
+1 panamerea4, texases
I wanted to see IL buy a 964 to begin with. I always thought that was the best looking model of the air-cooled 911s. If you're ready to do this now find a RS America to pit it against the LT NSX. I would be amazed if IL found that the steering feel on the NSX superior to the RS.
doss1 says:
12:09 PM, 01/13/12
s197gt
I don't know about you, but I read these blog post more for entertainment than as an objective buying guide. Someday when I'm in the market for one it would be nice to recall IL's purchase. If I were in the market for a used 911 one with a salvage title and suspect ownership wouldn't make it on my list. Let's make this purchase an example of what not to buy, and the next one (assuming a RS America) what to buy.
miamifan1 says:
12:10 PM, 01/13/12
i'm one of those who've consistently panned your terrible choice for a 911. undesirable model, high miles, bad title, no a/c. no a/c? really? yes, really.
you went for vanity, simple as that.
you glossed over models which for similar money would've given us readers a look into daily-driving a suitable car. i love 911's and you found one of the few i don't like.
a 964 is a good idea. a 993 even better. due to their depreciation, a 996 is the best idea. a 996tt is very doablein the mid $30k range.
put an end to this LT fiasco, already.
miamifan1 says:
12:12 PM, 01/13/12
+2 panamerea4, texases
duck87 says:
12:20 PM, 01/13/12
Right, what IL should have been doing is what a lot of commenters have already stated: New wheels, new suspension pieces. Honestly, if you get proper offset wheels in a size where it's much easier to find tires in, and if you raise the suspension back up and put proper dampers back in, you have a car that will be significantly easier to live with on a daily basis.
jasond52 says:
12:26 PM, 01/13/12
Yes, I wish you had never gotten this odd-ball 911. I'd much rather you had gotten a 993 or 964. Probably too late now...
clarkma5 says:
12:36 PM, 01/13/12
964 would be great, though honestly I'd love you guys to get a 996. They're cheaper than 993s and widely available in good shape for the mid to high $20k range and are modern enough to be reasonably livable and reliable everyday cars. I think a lot of car guys and gals who are pondering a used sports car would/should be very interested in how a stock 996 Carrera is to drive and live with.
bankerdanny says:
12:54 PM, 01/13/12
I am a huge 911 fan, but I vote no.
If IL were going to add another Porsche to the fold I would rather see a more affordable one like an early Boxster, which sell for under $15k all day long or a 944, which can be had with low miles for $8k or less. Eithe one is a more sensible Porsche for an enthusiast with only medium deep pockets.
miamifan1 says:
01:03 PM, 01/13/12
x2 bankerdanny
boxter idea is pretty good.
doss1 says:
01:12 PM, 01/13/12
RS America. I would love to hear how awesome that car is.
throwback says:
01:19 PM, 01/13/12
I can't argue against a 964. However, I humbly suggest you consider a 944 Turbo. While no 911, the 944 Turbos where/are fabulous drivers with great ergonomics and uncanny balance. They also had some of the best steering feel in their day. I still lust for a Guards Red one.
chirsch3 says:
01:40 PM, 01/13/12
Its a good idea
sharpend says:
01:45 PM, 01/13/12
Enough with the old 911s already. Let's try something newer - and different.
With the new '13 Boxster coming out and its $60k price tag for the S version, how about a used Boxster S in the fleet for half the price?
Go with the early 987 version 2005-2007.
chrisnick04 says:
02:00 PM, 01/13/12
tree'd by sharpend.
I was reading this and my mind was screaming "BOXSTER S!"
sidx says:
02:39 PM, 01/13/12
Yes vote on the 964. I have been considering a early 911 for a project put after driving a couple pristine examples, a '84 and '87 I'm just not sure the "yee-haa" factor is there for me. I need more forward thrust. They are a pleasure to drive I just require more thrust and am not sure I could make it fast enough without dropping large sums of money. I m curious how a 964 compares in this department.
teampenske3 says:
04:12 PM, 01/13/12
Enough with the old long termers. How about some newer exotics. You used to have an R8 in the fleet, a GT-R, a Viper, we need something like that. Perhaps a LT 991?
asantoni1 says:
05:06 PM, 01/13/12
Yes vote for the 964 but for a few thousand more you might as well spring for a 993. The 993 is considered by many 911 fans as the last true 911 and yet has many modern creature comforts (6 speed manual trans, self adjusting hydraulic valve lifters, a decent AC, and much quieter and well sorted out rear suspension) In other words, you get a very modern car with an air cooled engine, classic 911 lines and without the electronic nannies so common in today's cars. I been tracking 993 for the last 10 or so years, they just do not depreciate and are expected to appreciate in value as they get older. Instant classic!
cr_driver says:
07:56 PM, 01/13/12
If it has to be another used porsche,
Get a freaking boxster.
epbrown says:
11:41 PM, 01/13/12
If the idea is to be informative and relevant potential Porsche owners that read Insideline, a 996 (which I suggested all along) or a 986 make more sense. Far more people are buying these cars as first used Porsches.
Ideally, though, I'd rather the next long-termer were something other than another Porsche or any sports car. Try a used E-class (even an AMG).
bodyblue says:
06:54 AM, 01/14/12
Just get rid of it....get a 928 or a 944.....but the sad thing is it will be the same thing all over again. Lots of small problems wrapped up in a fun to drive package.
yellowmiata says:
09:19 AM, 01/14/12
Many folks above agree that the '85 911 is a difficult car. I'd politely rename it as a mechanic's car, and here's why:
I own a motorcycle that I've done so many mods on, I couldn't really sell it to someone because its pretty far from spec now. I'd gather this is the case for this 911. BUT, as a tinkerer, I enjoy the continual improvement process that my motorcycle endures. Never is it complete, never is it finished. Rather, its on the road of life. And, given that the road of life ends in death, I'd rather enjoy the journey than the destination. So, my motorcycle always needs a bit of tinkering, while still starting nearly every day and running like a champ.
Maybe the '85 911 needs a tinkerer or mechanic to own it. Someone who feels the joy of a never ending project. Someone who isn't all that grumpy when it takes 3 hands to start a vehicle on a cold morning. Someone who is never satisfied with the current state, but still enjoys it.
Kevin
w_smithson says:
11:52 AM, 01/14/12
I'd highly suggest for you to test a 993 911 either the S, or the 4S, turbo look..
I personally hate the 964 and I don't even really find the modifications you've done on your classic 3.2 any better either, It actually kind of makes me a bit annoyed considering you basically ruined it and the fact it looks like some blithering idiot took a can of black matte paint to it.. It looks simply awful, you should have left it stock and had it in it's original colour and or something much much better.
Thanks for your understand,
- Walker
tank_everett says:
12:03 PM, 01/14/12
Kevin with the sensible comment for the win.
This 911 needs a take two. Spring for the Bentley manuals and restore all components/settings to OE spec. Then address the weak areas that ALL vehicles will have in some way. Example: There is an aftermarket poly bushed shifter coupling that, along with replacing the other two bushings, cures 99% of tranny vagueness.
Any car almost 30yrs old needs someone wiling to get intimately involved with its care and feeding. A shop in 2012 cannot consistently provide this at a reasonable, or oftentimes, at any price. IMO.
And I'd avoid Boxters/996s with their propensity to grenade engines due to IMS bearing failure.
And if no one on staff wants to live with it on the street, how bout making it a club racer/auto-X car?
alexdi says:
01:46 PM, 01/14/12
I'd like to see an FD RX7. But no, I wouldn't scoff at another 911.
bodyblue says:
09:06 AM, 01/15/12
An old RX7 is a great idea! I am sure living with an old Wankel would be challenging but at least it would be quite different.
dgmatt461 says:
12:28 PM, 01/20/12
Great idea. A 993 would also fit the bill, and is perhaps even better as a street car.