When we placed the order for our Long-Term 2012 Audi A8L there were two warring factions. One side, let's call them the Reasonables, wanted us to get the 19-inch wheels with the 255/45R19 tires. It's a luxury car, so why compromise the ride with big wheels?
The other side, we'll call them The Crazies, wanted us to get, in lieu of the not-available-on-the-LWB car-Sport package, the 20-inch wheel package with 265/40R20 summer performance tires. They said that 20s would look cooler (they don't) and that the summer rubber would grip better and offer less sidewall flex (it does).
When our 2012 Audi A8L showed up with 19s, half of us cheered and tried to sign it out immediately. The other half groaned and tried to sign it out immediately, but with some grumbling that all-season tires are pointless in L.A. and that valets would laugh at the tiny 19s and that the performance numbers we recorded in a short-term 2011 Audi A8 with the 20-inch wheel and summer tire package would be untouchable by our new car. So we took a look at the numbers: 2012 Audi A8L with all-season 19s vs 2011 Audi A8 with 20-inch summer rubber. Who takes it?
2012 Audi A8L 2011 Audi A8
0-30 (sec.): 2.3 2.2
0-45 (sec.): 3.7 3.5
0-60 (sec.): 5.5 5.2
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec.): 5.2 5.0
0-75 (sec.): 8.1 7.7
1/4-mile (sec @ mph): 13.8 @ 101.6 13.6 @ 102.5
30-0 (ft): 31 27
60-0 (ft): 121 106
Skid pad lateral accel (g): 0.83 0.87
Slalom 65.1 66.3 (stability on)
Vehicle: 2012 Audi A8L
Odometer: 1,839
Date: 10/26/2011
Driver: Mike Monticello
Price: $101,575
Specifications:
Drive Type: Longitudinal, front-engine, all-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Eight-speed automatic
Engine Type: Naturally aspirated, direct-injected V8, gasoline
Displacement (cc/cu-in): 4,163 (254)
Redline (rpm): 7,000
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 372 @ 6,800
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 328 @ 3,500
Brake Type (front): 15-inch ventilated discs with 2-piston sliding calipers
Brake Type (rear): 14-inch ventilated discs with single-piston sliding calipers
Suspension Type(front): Independent multilink, pneumatic springs, driver-adjustable multimode variable dampers, stabilizer bar
Suspension Type (rear): Independent multilink, pneumatic springs, driver-adjustable multimode variable dampers, stabilizer bar
Tire Size (front): 255/45R19 M+S 104H
Tire Size (rear): 255/45R19 M+S 104H
Tire Brand: Continental
Tire Model: ContiProContact
Tire Type: All season
As tested Curb Weight (lb): 4,460
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-30 (sec): 2.3 (2.4 w/TC on)
0-45 (sec): 3.7 (4.0 w/TC on)
0-60 (sec): 5.5 (6.0 w/TC on)
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 5.2 (5.7 w/TC on)
0-75 (sec): 8.1 (8.6 w/TC on)
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 13.8 @ 101.6 (14.1 @ 100.8 w/TC on)
Braking:
30-0 (ft): 31
60-0 (ft): 121
Handling
Slalom (mph): 65.1 ( 64.6 w/TC on)
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.83 ( 0.83 w/TC on)
Db @ Idle: 44.1
Db @ Full Throttle: 72.1
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 60.9
Acceleration: Awesome grunt off the line. Power braking with transmission in Sport switches the A8L to "Audi quick-shift mode," with super-fast-but-abrupt upshifts, dropping 0-60 time by a half second. Otherwise, transmission shifts very smoothly. Hearty V8 sounds. Button on steering wheel engages Manual mode for the paddle shifters. Will not hold gears to the rev limiter (shifts at 7,000). Blips throttle on downshifts.
Braking: Short stroke, firm pedal, minimal nosedive, zero side-to-side wiggle but lots of ABS commotion. First stop was shortest at 121 feet. Longest was fourth stop (out of six) at 126 feet. No pedal fade.
Handling:
Skid pad: Having the A8L in Dynamic mode gives heavier steering than we usually find in the slow speeds of the skid pad. Reasonable grip, but throttle is rather abrupt, making on/off transitions to adjust understeer more difficult. Still, chassis is surprisingly cooperative to change its attitude. ESC just barely cuts throttle and adds brakes.
Slalom: Soft suspension (even in Dynamic) with plenty of roll, but grip is decent and the A8L is both communicative and forgiving. Steering is, not surprisingly, artificial in its weighting but the A8L goes right where you point it. ESC cannot be fully defeated. The system's limits are pretty high, but there was always some brake intervention by the last couple of cones when really honking along. Seats hold you in place pretty well. And yes, I had the seat coolers on.
Vehicle: 2011 Audi A8
Odometer: 2,178
Date: 9/21/2010
Driver: Chris Walton
Price: $89,625
Specifications:
Drive Type: Longitudinal, front-engine, all-wheel drive
Transmission Type: Eight-speed automatic
Engine Type: Naturally aspirated, direct-injected V8, gasoline
Displacement (cc/cu-in): 4,163 (254)
Redline (rpm): 7,000
Horsepower (hp @ rpm): 372 @ 6,800
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm): 328 @ 3,500
Brake Type (front): 15-inch ventilated discs with 2-piston sliding calipers
Brake Type (rear): 14-inch ventilated discs with single-piston sliding calipers
Suspension Type(front): Independent multilink, pneumatic springs, driver-adjustable multimode variable dampers, stabilizer bar
Suspension Type (rear): Independent multilink, pneumatic springs, driver-adjustable multimode variable dampers, stabilizer bar
Tire Size (front): P265/40R20
Tire Size (rear): P265/40R20
Tire Brand: Goodyear
Tire Model: Eagle F1
Tire Type: Summer Performance
As tested Curb Weight (lb): 4,336
Test Results:
Acceleration
0-30 (sec): 2.2 (2.5 w/TC on)
0-45 (sec): 3.5 (4.1 w/TC on)
0-60 (sec): 5.2 (6.2 w/TC on)
0-60 with 1-ft Rollout (sec): 5.0 (5.7 w/TC on)
0-75 (sec): 7.7 (8.7 w/TC on)
1/4-Mile (sec @ mph): 13.6 @ 102.5 (14.1 @ 100.9 w/TC on)
Braking:
30-0 (ft): 27
60-0 (ft): 106
Handling
Slalom (mph): 66.3 ( 65.5 w/TC off)
Skid Pad Lateral acceleration (g): 0.87 ( 0.82 w/TC on)
Db @ Idle: 45.5
Db @ Full Throttle: 69.4
Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 62.7
Acceleration: Slight delay in default Drive/Auto modes. Engine is freakishly quiet and distant. Engine is very smooth; however, in Sport/Dynamic modes all that changes dramatically, especially with brake-torque launch where it leaps off the line and bangs off harsh upshifts. The result? A full second quicker to 60 and another 2 mph in trap speed in the quarter-mile. Deceptively fast.
Braking: Moderately firm pedal throughout seven runs. Started out short and got progressively shorter distances. Near zero dive in dynamic mode and arrow-straight. Powerful, fade-free and trustworthy.
Handling:
Skid pad: Tires are easily tortured with ESC off but chassis does a good job of staying composed with informative (but light) steering. With ESC on I felt the throttle close slightly, so no tire abuse.
Slalom: After realizing how long this car is I eventually found understeer at the limit with ESC off. Rewards slow-in, fast-out technique. Crisp turn-in, plenty of grip and good transitional response. Went faster with ESC on. Couldn't beat the electronics this time. Impressive.
blackdynamite1 says:
09:53 PM, 12/26/11
The cars are only 100 lbs apart, so it came down to the tires
You can gain 1/4 second just from tires in acceleration
Tires are a HUGE factor in any performance testing
BD
billt9 says:
10:14 PM, 12/26/11
Those 20" wheels look painful.
Get some real 15" formula 1 wheels. 20" is too much show and not enough practical.
gtrguy2012 says:
10:17 PM, 12/26/11
Thank you BD for telling everyone what we already know, tires matter. Really, thanks.
blackdynamite1 says:
10:22 PM, 12/26/11
If only you knew that a mind is a terrible thing to waste......
BD
rayraysorlo says:
11:17 PM, 12/26/11
@billt9 "Those 20" wheels look painful.
Get some real 15" formula 1 wheels. 20" is too much show and not enough practical."
I don't think anyone would spend $90k on a car just to be practical.
lexuslvr says:
05:23 AM, 12/27/11
"Those 20" wheels look painful.
Get some real 15" formula 1 wheels. 20" is too much show and not enough practical."
The brakes are way too big for such a retarded sized rim.
tehnighthawk says:
05:46 AM, 12/27/11
Would be very hard to fit 15" wheels over 15" brakes...
ptcdawg says:
06:52 AM, 12/27/11
20" wheels...total waste...and dumb looking too.
rxaaron says:
07:23 AM, 12/27/11
I think the difference in test data has more to do with tire compound than an inch of sidewall.
church123 says:
07:58 AM, 12/27/11
Tires will not make a bit of difference in the longitudinal acceleration profile of a 4400 lbs AWD car with only 330 lbs-ft of torque. Well, at least not in the way you think. Basically, there's no way this car is going to be able to spin the tires during dry acceleration runs with either of the fitted tires, so tire grip simply isn't an issue. Now, some AWD cars get noticeably quicker with a bit of wheelspin (optimum acceleration does require some slip - 5-10% depending upon tire compound) so if you put really cheap, or really narrow tires on this car, then maybe it might go a bit quicker.
But the difference in this case comes down to power/weight and simple weather or car to car variations.
noburgers says:
08:55 AM, 12/27/11
duh factor--who would have guessed the long wheelbase version would be slower? As far as acceleration, I wouldn't care--it would not be enough of a difference to make me choose one over the other--but the braking difference is quite significant. The stickier tread compound and wider tire definitely have more of a factor than the small weight difference. I wonder what 19" summer tires performance would be--just to throw another variable in the mix? Does tread width or compund have the greater impact? There's just 10mm difference between the two in width, so I would guess it is compound. Are there any tire experts out there?
fordson1 says:
08:57 AM, 12/27/11
"I think the difference in test data has more to do with tire compound than an inch of sidewall."
Bingo. This drastic reduction in handling and braking is what happens when you try to put a $230 tire on a $100,000 car.
This is hilarious - the other day, I was helping my sister-in-law to buy tires for her '09 Rabbit - car was $17,600 new. According to Tire Rack, the OEM tires on that car (in a 195/65-15 size for the steelies and dog-dish wheel covers it has) are THE SAME tires that are on this $100k Audi lux sedan. For the Rabbit, they are $93 each, for the Audi, $230 because they're bigger.
These are H-rated tires. I don't think you can get anything lower than H on a car sold in America anymore. So they take this car, that can go 165, and limit it to 155 everywhere it's sold like all German lux sedans, and then they limit it to 130 here because of these crap tires. And at 4400 lb and almost 400 hp, I'm not going anywhere near 130 on these.
Now, I understand that this car is not going to be driven like it's an M5, but Jesus - they can't put anything better than this POS rim-protector on a hundred-thousand dollar car? For a couple bucks more they could put Potenza 960s or 970s on this thing and it would be worlds better.
90in55 says:
09:51 AM, 12/27/11
Like death and taxes, you can be certain that those LED running lights will burn out soon on one side. I see at least one late model Audi per week with this affliction.
nefariousnigel says:
11:58 AM, 12/27/11
@90in55:
Are you sure you aren't confusing the LED's headlights automatically switching off on one side when an Audi's turn signal is activated? I understand where you're coming from. I lived through the fun of my VW Passat being a one-eyed bandit once a year...no amount of "testing" by the service staff could cure the classic VW/Audi lack of quality with headlights/headlight circuitry. Funny thing is the idiots lights on the dashboard had no problem staying on.....
However, with LED's extraordinary lifespan and different voltage requirements, I assumed this systematic VW/Audi malady would be finally cured...
desmolicious says:
11:58 AM, 12/27/11
"Like death and taxes, you can be certain that those LED running lights will burn out soon on one side. I see at least one late model Audi per week with this affliction. "
You sure they did not have a turn signal on? That turns off the LEDs on that side.
I've seen lots and lots of late model Audis in LA with LED running lights, and the only ones that have LEDs 'out' are the ones making turns..
incyphe says:
06:34 PM, 12/27/11
Man, when this page loaded, I though I was looking at Chrysler 300.
cz_75 says:
07:16 PM, 12/27/11
Lord knows that if GM made the LED arrays, much like late model Cadillacs, etc. high mounted brake lights, the array would have several spots where the LEDs are dead.
agentorange says:
09:22 PM, 12/27/11
church123 is probably dead on when it come to the acceleration numbers. However, with braking, we all know that no-season tyres stink, so the stopping distance numbers come as no surprise. Surely the obvious solution is to fit some 19 inch summer rubber. IMHO 20s look silly on most luxury cars.
church123 says:
10:42 PM, 12/27/11
Yes agentorange, I should have been more specific.
b_boy_007 says:
02:18 PM, 12/29/11
Just put some aftermarket high performance summers on the 19s. Problem solved. Plus, you'll be able to choose some better tires than the Goodyear F1s (not hard to do) that are the A8's summer tire of choice.