2011 Nissan Leaf: Driving It To The Bitter End

Nice video, gents. Very well done. Now, where can I get me one of those stretches of closed highway?

Excellent video. As a Leaf driver with neither test track nor Ford Raptor, I would like to see both the full throttle and 65 with AC to 75 test. Be daring!

Average US electricity price is $0.11 / kWh, so around $2.18 per 100 miles.

With gas at $4/gal you would need to achieve 183mpg to match the cost per mile.

Definitely interested in seeing this repeated at 55-65mph.

I wonder if the trip computer remembers this and overestimates all your future ranges based on this performance.

Only for a few miles. The DTE gauge doesn't have a terribly long memory. It catches on pretty quick, as we saw here.

the 65 mph thing only climate control set to 70 that seams more realistic for california

"...our fallen Leaf..." good one, Dan :-)

132miles is actually better than I had expected considering the windows were cracked and ambient temps were a little bit higher than optimum. 65mph with AC sounds like a good follow up.

"Here's a poll for you: steady 65mph with the AC set to 75 degrees or full-whack wide-open throttle?"

No--I want the 17 mph test, one driver (non stop, armed with empty beer bottles)

Love the music guys...

65 mph and AC on.

Also, next time rest Leaf's miles/kwh so that you can report on that. One more thing. Get the new firmware update - the DTE estimates calculation has changed.

Great video! 65 w/A/C on!

Bravo!, you guys were the first ones to do it!.. I was expecting 160 miles but that is life, one disappointment after another.. 26.08 kwh to recharge it, assuming 85% charger efficiency then usable battery capacity is 22.2kwh, if we assume 90% then 23.5kwh.. perhaps it is true that the usable capacity is 24kwh but the actual size of the battery pack is 27kwh (repair tech rumors).. a closely held Nissan secret.

The 17mph Tesla number comes from here: http://teslamotors.com/enthusiasts/blog/3859
You guys consumed 180wh/mile, the chart for the Roadster predicts 165wh/mile at a speed of 35mph.. extrapolating then you would get 96 miles of range at a steady 55mph.

Repeat this test in 5 years and track true battery degradation.. Nissan promises a 20% degradation in 8 to 10 years.

Did you guys pump up the tires to max sidewall listed pressure?.. and before people start sniping up, yes its safe and no it wont wear out your tires.. but it will be a harsher ride and perhaps change the extreme handling characteristics of the car (over/understeer).

Sorry to rain on your parade guys, but what was this test really good for aside from knowing what the car does before it dies? There is pretty much zero real world usefulness in what you did.
Yes, we now know that at 35MPH it goes 160 miles. Ok, that helps how exactly?

How about you do a mix of freeway and city driving and once your DTE gets really low, you get the car to an area with very low traffic. Or put it on the trailer and tow it out to the desert and drive it completely empty out in nowhere.

Right now I really don't see a big difference between what you did and when the car is run at a constant speed on the dyno

Any day you guys get bored you can redo the experiment varying one of the conditions (temperature, speed, A/C)! The more important part of this experiment is that you get to tell what kind of an impact draining the battery has on the electronics and reliability of the vehicle.

@msfun; it is useful to anyone that commutes at those speeds and wants to know what range they can expect to achieve. When I commuted into DC my average speed was closer to 15mph, if I was lucky. Look at I-5 in San Diego, average rush hour speeds are 23-25 mph. I'm sure most large cities in the US are the same.

65mph with A/C on would be best. 35mph isn't bad but your real world driving shows the real mileage it would get while the 65mph on would show what people wondering how far they can get on the highway, assuming there's no traffic, can get.

As I said, we pulled 35 mph out of the air. It was not based on traffic surveys. We wanted to go slow enough to give the Leaf a fighting chance for a good range while going "fast" enough to be able to use cruise control, get the test done in the time we had and, most important, stay awake. A test at 25 mph would be tough. We don't have music slow enough to back up THAT video.

Incidentally, Nissan's 138 mile dyno result was achieved at a steady 38 mph at 68 degrees with the AC system off and including simulated aerodynamic loading because they were stationary on dyno rollers. I'm sure their aero calculation included windows up, but at that low speed the difference would be pretty small.

And I don't think that a steady 65 mph is real world, either -- not for a whole tank, anyway. This is not an open road car. I bet that no more than 65% of any given charge would occur at steady freeway speeds. You don't want to get too far away from home unless you know exactly where you're going to plug in. Today, at least, those options are limited. The only guaranteed place most EV folks have to plug in is their home garage.

Any constant speed test is artificial. But apart from using a computer controlled robot driver or a dyno, a constant speed run around an oval is a very reliable and repeatable.

Since the track we visited didn't have a 240V charger, the 120V recharge from full discharge took about 20 hours. We can only run one test per day, and the daily rental fee for such a facility is, shall we say, rather steep. We'll try to do this again, but it may not happen right away.

Cool test. Thanks for putting up with that. It was actually pretty interesting to read about.

Thank you for doing this test. I guess some of us wanted to see what happened when you drain the last "drop of electricity" stored in the batteries.

The most important aspect of this test is not how many miles it goes (that is an interesting number nonetheless), buy how it behaves when you are close to empty the batteries, and from the results it seems that the car is well designed, it does not die like any other electrical appliance, you were able to operate the windows.

Full throttle would be an interesting test since it may trigger some warnings due to overheating motor or batteries, and it will probably enter some protective or cool down mode. It will also be a short test, the 24kWh at 80kw (full power) will last less than 20 minutes.

65 with the A/C on is probably best. However I would love to see a flat out run also.

Steady 65 with the AC set to 75 degrees seems more realistic.

Testing with a constant speed on a level road will never provide a feel for the real world range. A better test is to try a late-morning or mid-day Wednesday drive toward Vegas on the I-15 with the Raptor there to provide a tow at the end. This will provide data with variable speed driving, a bit of stop and go at the start along with hills and a bit of modest dry heat during the drive. Traffic should be light, the 15 has a wide service lane/shoulder, and you should tap out somewhere between Victorville and Barstow.

Wow, you guys can't even trust the route of a closed course? The NAV screen was on during the run, with a map showing. Didn't that help drain the battery?

Great video. Seems like Riswick is always the goodlooking, nicely coifed, nicely dressed star of the videos. Most of the other dudes in this video are kinda scruffy looking. Oh, well, whatever gets the job done.

Isn't "full-whack wide-open throttle" the answer to pretty much any question in life?

Actually, it would be more "real world" if you set up an artificial city course - stop signs, stop lights (or simulations thereof), corners, varying speed limits, etc. and ran it through that until it died.

"Who's scruffy-looking?"

Looks like the Hyundai test track near Ridgecrest?

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=14483+Camrose+Ct,+Victorville,+California+92395&ll=35.277016,-117.950249&spn=0.148827,0.308304&t=h&z=12

Don't be wimps: 75 mph, a/c on, heater on, defrost on (a/c turns on when using defrost in most cars, even at cold temps), rear defog on. Every 5 laps, change to urban cycle: stop / start every 2 miles with snappy urban guerilla acceleration, and brake hard for a few imaginery yellows. THAT would be closer to reality.

You're forgetting the half-dozen or so that are found in Arizona...

For the Pool, my guesstimate is a range from 63 to 75 miles under those conditions(steady 65mph with the AC set to 75 degrees).

steady 65 with A/C on. But 55 or 60 would be better since 65 is unnecessarry for the cycle this car is intended for... trips no more than 1.5 hours.. How much time would you save in less than 1.5 hour by going 5 mph faster? Almost nothing. This car is intended for local travel.

Nice story, although I don't know anyone who would drive 35MPH for 132 miles straight, so I'm really not sure what type of real-world application this test serves.

As for the next test, I think Insideline should shake things up: a few miles of city traffic (coming to a complete stop every 1/2 mile), 20 miles of freeway/highway speeds, stop-and-go for a few miles (like a traffic jam), followed by freeway speeds again, and then a few miles of city traffic to end it all (then repeat the test until the battery is dead). As for the AC, leave it on until the 'oh crap' moment (maybe 20 miles left) where the driver realizes there isn't a lot of range left.

While 132 miles in a pure electric vehicle is impressive, a Mustang V6 got 776 miles in a similar test. And a Fusion hybrid passed 1445 miles driving on surface streets. You can get higher numbers if you adjust your technique...... using pulse-and-glide instead of cruise-control should easily beat 132.

What would be interesting to do with those two tests is to see how long it takes to fully recharge the vehicle. Having a cost analysis on charging it would be pretty sweet too.

What would be interesting to do with those two tests is to see how long it takes to fully recharge the vehicle. Having a cost analysis on charging it would be pretty sweet too.

We have the winner for the most boring IL test ever.

For your last test:
1. WOT
2. AC cranked to the max
3. Radio blasting

I would vote for full open whack open-throttle and 70-80 freeway speeds with maybe some A/C thrown in. Let's see how low you can beat that number down :)

time for you guys to get a 2nd leaf, 1 go 65 mph with AC and the other going 80 mph with AC. I'm sure the Raptor could tow a trailer with 2 Leaf's. probably cheaper than renting the track for a 3rd time too

65mph and AC set to 70. Then do one at full throtle with no AC.

""Who's scruffy-looking?""

You are, Han Solo. Nobody got that but me?? I am disappointed.

Cool test....

I'd vote for 65 mph with AC, please, for more real world relevance. I'm a happy LEAF owner, BTW.

Do I read correctly that you guys recharged it to 100% using the 110 volt trickle charge cable to get the 26.08 kWh figure?

Thanks.

Nice hat, Dan!

Great effort, all!

This is interesting, but probably not relevant to anyone's real world driving.

I think the steady state 65 with A/C on is much more in tune with what the average Leaf owner might want to accomplish...but...

...with that said, a lot more Leafs are likely to be used in urban settings than long distance highway.

The most relevant test you could probably do would be an endurance test with A/C on in a major metro. Take Houston, Phoenix, LA, etc. Charge the car fully, then drive in city stop and go traffic for 20 min with the occasional highway burst for 10 miles or so, then back to city streets. See how long the Leaf lasts. That's probably how most Leafs will be used, or close to it.

Alternately, I'd like to see how long a Leaf would go in winter with the heat on in city traffic.

Thanks for doing this. I'm sure it was like watching paint dry. I've been kind of disappointed with what I'm reading about the Leaf (100miles claimed becomes 73 EPA, Nissan requests 80% charging,etc) but that is a really solid result.

Now tow the Volt out there and repeat!

I like tests like this, but in a way you're just creating more mythology that the Leaf is more versatile than it really is, when in most conditions you'll be in the 70 mile range. The test I really want to see is a Leaf in sub-freezing temps and the cabin heater on 72 degrees. I know from experience with the Volt that range will go down by close to half. That's mostly academic with the Volt since it just switches over to gasoline to make juice, but on the Leaf in a snowstorm it could even be a matter of survival!

Something most people probably don't realize is that the cabin heater uses 3 to 4 times as much juice as the A/C, at least according to the climate control power meter on the Volt. The Volt can blow tons of cold air on a hot day, at least as well as a "normal" car, and only show about 25% on the climate power gauge. And as an added bonus, the A/C compressor doesn't cut out when you floor the accelerator like it does on most other cars.

IMO, pure EVs are much better solutions for warm climates like Southern Cal, Texas and Florida than they are for any place that experiences cold winters. Like I wouldn't be buying one in Wisconsin and expecting to go very far.

@yamahr1: Even after this, I don't think anyone is under any illusions that a Leaf is good for 130 miles, or even a hundred. If 132 miles is the absolute best it can do, but you have to drive at a snail's pace and deny yourself AC to manage it, then that pretty much makes the point.

The farthest we've EVER gone in real life on a single charge was 76.7 miles with "- - -" Displaying on the DTE meter. Typically, our drivers get uncomfortable with the range anxiety at 60 to 70 miles -- about half the driving distance we achieved in this test.

This "test" was almost worthless. And you made fun of a Tesla test at 17 miles per hour. I am a LEAF owner, and I can assure you that I never plan to drive my car at 35 miles per hour, without the air conditioning, on an 80 degree day for hours on end. You said that 35 sounded like a speed that "reasonable people might actually average in a suburban setting". I can guarantee you (and I don't take guarantees lightly) that I can average 35 miles per hour in my suburban setting and get nowhere near 132 miles of range. Driving style, terrain, stops and starts all figure into the range, while your "test" accounted for none of these (except for three stops so your drivers didn't die of boredom). The only useful bit of data provided was the amount of electricity needed to charge a fully depleted battery. You could have learned this by driving your LEAF wide open throttle until it coasted to a final stop. Your driver (you would have only needed one) would have probably liked that more as well.

And another thing: The deal with an electric car is this: It's not so much a question of far you can go on a "tank", it's a question of how far you drive in a day. With normal cars, we don't want to gas up every single day. Range is important to us primarily because we want to stop at the pump is infrequently as possible. We may drive 350 miles a week but feel put out by having to visit a gas station every 5 days.

But from the point of view of a Leaf all of that is only 50 miles a day.

With a Leaf, you could easily manage that routine because you'd essentially "visit the gas station" every night when you plugged it in at home. A full recharge is easily completed while you are asleep if you have a 240V home charger. Plug it in and walk away. Couldn't be simpler or less messy. No credit cards, no receipts, no at-the-pump advertising blaring at you.

As for the long trips, most couples have two cars. Use the other one, the gasoline-powered one for those longer trips. Look at it that way and one electric car may well fit into many homeowner's lifestyle. Two electric cars? No, probably not. One for commuting? Sure.

Because of the reasons above, electric cars are probably best suited to homeowners (to be able to install the charger) that are married couples or someone with some other two-car situation. That's not a minority niche group. In fact that's a ton of potential customers.

@actual size:
I think my point is that in an effort to make an easily repeatable test, the results are not worth very much. As a Volt owner and overall EV advocate, I agree with your last point that these cars get plugged in every night, and there's something liberating about that. But even 70 miles a day, and let's say 60 miles with some degree of range buffer, ends up being a very small number for what I'd venture to say is most people. That basically puts you in a 30 mile travel distance from home (or your next charging station), with no route deviation allowed.

I figure my current daily commute, at 80 miles round trip, is well above average. But how many people got excited about the hype of the Leaf's claimed 100 mile range, maybe even put a deposit down, only to find that the real range is much less? If that had been me and I went through to purchase, I would now be stuck with a nearly unusable car.

So in the end of the real world, what is a "comfortable" commuting distance to buy a Leaf? From what I've read, if it were more than 50 miles round trip I'd be very hesitant. And if you think about it, 50 miles is typically means about an hour of driving. I have a hard time believing that in your West Coast area there who won't mind being held to only driving an hour a day.

You also make the argument about the 2-car (or more) family, but now you're resigning all longer distance driving to what is often the gas-loving SUV, CUV, or minivan.

Do the "right" Leaf customers exist? No doubt and I'm 100% in favor of the move to electric. But I still think for most people the EREV (Volt) is the better and worry-free way to go.

"let's say 60 miles with some degree of range buffer, ends up being a very small number for what I'd venture to say is most people. That basically puts you in a 30 mile travel distance from home (or your next charging station), with no route deviation allowed."

Nissan said a while back your range will vary between worst case 60 and best case 138 miles, the EPA rated it 70 miles using methods that match the typical american driver buzzing about on a hwy.. but MOST people drive less than 40 miles a day, thats an official gov statistic.. all those people can easily do with a Leaf, just because you cant does not mean anything. Stick with a Volt, its a fine BEV.

tested max range: 132 miles
LA4 city cycle range spec: 100 miles
With heater on, the range could be deteriorated further than with A/C on.
With heater and other electricity devices on, the range can go down to 45-50 miles.

80% american drives less than 40 miles a day. (Is it right? I barely remember the numbers.)
Most families has multiple cars.
It will be perfectly fine to have one leaf and the other long range vehicles.
For unexpected route deviation, people may prefer PHEV.
However, there will be still a large number of people who drives less than 40 miles a day including routine route deviations.

However, I'll be more than happy if the worst case range goes up above 70 miles.

tested max range: 132 miles
LA4 city cycle range spec: 100 miles
With heater on, the range could be deteriorated further than with A/C on.
With heater and other electricity devices on, the range can go down to 45-50 miles.

80% american drives less than 40 miles a day. (Is it right? I barely remember the numbers.)
Most families has multiple cars.
It will be perfectly fine to have one leaf and the other long range vehicles.
For unexpected route deviation, people may prefer PHEV.
However, there will be still a large number of people who drives less than 40 miles a day including routine route deviations.

However, I'll be more than happy if the worst case range goes up above 70 miles.

Sort of an engineering question, but i was arguing/discussing this with my work buddies after i saw ur vid..

I know it must be awesomely hard to drive at@ 35 but every time you guys switched drivers.. you braked and stopped..charging the battery by regen braking.... so to speak in gas terms
u took a pitstop changed driver added a wee bit gas and moved on ahead..
wonder if you did a single driver run without stopping..that 132 number should drop down to a lower value..

I don't think either test is that realistic, though given a choice I'd take steady 65mph with the AC set to 75 degrees. I'd rather do steady 60 than 65, though.

A more realistic test would be one that simulates a longish California commute with no recharge; no AC needed in the morning, but definitely desired coming home, just when the anxiety would redline.