2011 Buick Regal CXL Turbo vs Lexus IS 250

I know I am going to get killed by the GM fanboys for my following comment but oh well...

So Brent, based on the quick review, it looks like the two cars are pretty much a draw. The IS250 is sportier but the Buick is quieter and more of a, dare I say it, family sedan in its nature. The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference.

HOWEVER (here it comes...), let's not forget that the IS250 was debut in 2005 and has been on the market for 6 years with replacement coming soon but the Regal was new in 2010 (2008 if you are counting the Opel Insignia)...

Also, purely on a subjective note, the IS looks better!

Aside from the (targeted) demographic, I hardly think these two cars are competitors. In order for me to cross-shop these two cars, the Lexus would need to offer me something pretty compelling to make up extreme lack of rear leg room. The 2009 IS 350 I drove a while back didn't give me any indication that it does, and this is a 250.

I've driven both before, and I'd definitely take the IS. To me it looks better (edgy vs the "soft" Regal), handles well with much more steering weight and feel, has a nicer very high-quality interior, gets better fuel economy, has flappy paddles (if I'm forced to go A/T at least), offers fancier optional equipment, has more supportive seats and the V6 sound and feel I greatly prefer over any buzzy-sounding 4-cylinder. The IS is just a more involving RWD car and I can't believe I'm saying that about a Lexus.

No one in the marketplace will actually make this comparison, for one very simple reason.

I wish GM would drop the Buick brand and sell this as the Opel that it is. I just can't shake the blue-haired Roadmaster/LeSabre/Skylark lineage behind the tri-shield. The Chinese might not have a problem with it, because they were still on bicycles just a decade ago.

At least give the thing a different name!

Getting smoked by a car with only 204 horses and barely 185 lb-ft of torque when you bought a 2.0L turbocharged engine must be quite the feeling.... (numbers aside, just talking from this particular post)

Oh well, it is nice to know the all new regal (somewhat) it is at least competitive with a car that haven`t changed in so many years (a lifetime in auto years)

Kudos!

Good info Brent. I know 20 minutes is short, but it is enough to get a quick impression of how the Buick fares against its intended competition, and that is what many of us have wanted to know. Even though I don't see the Regal as a "sport sedan", it does seem to be able to hold it's own in direct competition with other cars on the cusp of such distinction.

Thanks again Brent.

the is 250 starts at 32, 645 just to make things fair.

Sounds just about even, though louis has a good point. The IS is a bit long in the tooth, so maybe the new one will be better.

@ bimmerjay,

It's ok to express your inner feeling once a while... ; )

@ bimmerjay,

It's ok to express your inner feeling once a while... ; )

The IS is an aged vehicle with only minor enhancements in it's 5 year history, but it still looks great. The all new IS will come out soon. Lexus definitely makes a great sporty small car. The Regal is too soft.

@Bimmerjay

+100

@ bimmerjay,

It's ok to express your inner feeling once a while... ; )

Sorry, the correct base MSRP is $32,645 for the 2011 IS 350. And I mixed up the pricing columns. (The Buick is $28,745.) I'll fix that shortly. -- Brent

@Bimmerjay

+100

Both of these cars underwhelm me. The Lexus is screwed together tightly and has a nice interior, but the torque number leaves me wanting much more.

The Regal should just be much more responsive if not actually faster than it actually is. My turbo 4 gets about 28mpg in mixed driving, and is faster at all distances than the Regal. Bums me out, because I like the overall style and compact dimensions of the new Buick.

Sorry, the correct base MSRPs are $32,645 for the 2011 IS 350 and $28,745 for the Regal. -- Brent

20 minutes isn't long but when I used to sell cars it was very rare to have a test drive longer then that.

First impressions are what sells cars.

20 minutes isn't long but when I used to sell cars it was very rare to have a test drive longer then that.

First impressions are what sells cars.

@bromans

That's IS 250, not 350.

Good Lord, Brent. Take a vacation.

1. LOL at the normal GM bashers who "shocked" us by saying the IS is CLEARLY, unequivocally the superior car. Who would've thunk it? BJ and Louiswei think the 6 year old Lexus is the better car- totally unexpected. They would also prefer it over the CTS-V or ZR1.

2. I do not understand the whining about the Regal's interior. If it had a parts bin interior shared with another GM product people would be demanding more. It has an Opel designed interior and people are supposedly baffled as to how to work anything. In terms of quality its definitely on par with the IS and the controls are very easy to figure out to anyone under 50 I would think.

3. In about 6 months you will be able to get a Regal GS for slightly more than the 204hp IS250. I know which one I would buy for $35k.

"I wish GM would drop the Buick brand and sell this as the Opel that it is. I just can't shake the blue-haired Roadmaster/LeSabre/Skylark lineage behind the tri-shield. The Chinese might not have a problem with it, because they were still on bicycles just a decade ago. "

That's your opinion, the sales charts don't align with your opinion. It would take Opel a decade to get to where Buick's sales are today due to lack of brand recognition. Americans don't care about Opel, it means nothing to them. Opel doesn't even have cache in Europe so it makes no sense to claim that Buick models would thrive here in the US if only they were called Opels. MAkes no sense.

1. LOL at the normal GM bashers who "shocked" us by saying the IS is CLEARLY, unequivocally the superior car. Who would've thunk it? BJ and Louiswei think the 6 year old Lexus is the better car- totally unexpected. They would also prefer it over the CTS-V or ZR1.

2. I do not understand the whining about the Regal's interior. If it had a parts bin interior shared with another GM product people would be demanding more. It has an Opel designed interior and people are supposedly baffled as to how to work anything. In terms of quality its definitely on par with the IS and the controls are very easy to figure out to anyone under 50 I would think.

3. In about 6 months you will be able to get a Regal GS for slightly more than the 204hp IS250. I know which one I would buy for $35k.

"I wish GM would drop the Buick brand and sell this as the Opel that it is. I just can't shake the blue-haired Roadmaster/LeSabre/Skylark lineage behind the tri-shield. The Chinese might not have a problem with it, because they were still on bicycles just a decade ago. "

That's your opinion, the sales charts don't align with your opinion. It would take Opel a decade to get to where Buick's sales are today due to lack of brand recognition. Americans don't care about Opel, it means nothing to them. Opel doesn't even have cache in Europe so it makes no sense to claim that Buick models would thrive here in the US if only they were called Opels. MAkes no sense.

1. LOL at the normal GM bashers who "shocked" us by saying the IS is CLEARLY, unequivocally the superior car. Who would've thunk it? BJ and Louiswei think the 6 year old Lexus is the better car- totally unexpected. They would also prefer it over the CTS-V or ZR1.

2. I do not understand the whining about the Regal's interior. If it had a parts bin interior shared with another GM product people would be demanding more. It has an Opel designed interior and people are supposedly baffled as to how to work anything. In terms of quality its definitely on par with the IS and the controls are very easy to figure out to anyone under 50 I would think.

3. In about 6 months you will be able to get a Regal GS for slightly more than the 204hp IS250. I know which one I would buy for $35k.

"I wish GM would drop the Buick brand and sell this as the Opel that it is. I just can't shake the blue-haired Roadmaster/LeSabre/Skylark lineage behind the tri-shield. The Chinese might not have a problem with it, because they were still on bicycles just a decade ago. "

That's your opinion, the sales charts don't align with your opinion. It would take Opel a decade to get to where Buick's sales are today due to lack of brand recognition. Americans don't care about Opel, it means nothing to them. Opel doesn't even have cache in Europe so it makes no sense to claim that Buick models would thrive here in the US if only they were called Opels. MAkes no sense.

Good Lord, Brent. Take a vacation.

I can't post this because the website says I have made too many posts today. Is this something new. I think I have posted only 2 or 3 times today.

I disagree with the interior comments. I think the Regal's interior is vastly better looking than the IS'.

1. LOL at the normal GM bashers who "shocked" us by saying the IS is CLEARLY, unequivocally the superior car. Who would've thunk it? BJ and Louiswei think the 6 year old Lexus is the better car- totally unexpected. They would also prefer it over the CTS-V or ZR1.

2. I do not understand the whining about the Regal's interior. If it had a parts bin interior shared with another GM product people would be demanding more. It has an Opel designed interior and people are supposedly baffled as to how to work anything. In terms of quality its definitely on par with the IS and the controls are very easy to figure out to anyone under 50 I would think.

3. In about 6 months you will be able to get a Regal GS for slightly more than the 204hp IS250. I know which one I would buy for $35k.

"I wish GM would drop the Buick brand and sell this as the Opel that it is. I just can't shake the blue-haired Roadmaster/LeSabre/Skylark lineage behind the tri-shield. The Chinese might not have a problem with it, because they were still on bicycles just a decade ago. "

That's your opinion, the sales charts don't align with your opinion. It would take Opel a decade to get to where Buick's sales are today due to lack of brand recognition. Americans don't care about Opel, it means nothing to them. Opel doesn't even have cache in Europe so it makes no sense to claim that Buick models would thrive here in the US if only they were called Opels. MAkes no sense.

I disagree with the interior comments. I think the Regal's interior is vastly better looking than the IS'.

I disagree with the interior comments. I think the Regal's interior is vastly better looking than the IS'.

Something is wrong here.

I disagree with the interior comments. I think the Regal's interior is vastly better looking than the IS'.

Sorry for the triplicate posts - the thing was giving me error messages stating that it wouldn't post, but it did anyway.

what is wrong with this site? I thought it just got an award. Too many glitches and still no edit function.

@bimmerjay

1. I'd love specifics on how the Regal interior trails what's found in the Lexus. Other than "well, its a Buick" I mean.

2. If you're a real enthusiast I don't see why the auto for either car would be your top choice. If you're OK with an auto than I dont see how paddles are a key issue. Either way, manual shifting on an auto is largly a novelty if its a conventional tranny.

3. The IS doesn't have far more tech than Regal. It has memory, power tilt wheel and ventilated seats which Regal lacks- but a car with that kit will cost you $7k more than the Regal Turbo in the fleet. That's quite a bit of money for those extra features. None of those features have anything do with with driving BTW. The IS lacks IDCS and 19" rims, 10GB music storage and has less room for that extra 7 grand.

@louiswei

"let's not forget that the IS250 was debut in 2005 and has been on the market for 6 years with replacement coming soon but the Regal was new in 2010"

I get your point, but Lexus/Toyota still considers this car to be competitive in this segment, so the comparison of these two cars is appropriate. You have to play against the team in front of you, not the team you wish they were.

@louiswei

"let's not forget that the IS250 was debut in 2005 and has been on the market for 6 years with replacement coming soon but the Regal was new in 2010"

I get your point, but Lexus/Toyota still considers this car to be competitive in this segment, so the comparison of these two cars is appropriate. You have to play against the team in front of you, not the team you wish they were.

@louiswei

"let's not forget that the IS250 was debut in 2005 and has been on the market for 6 years with replacement coming soon but the Regal was new in 2010"

I get your point, but Lexus/Toyota still considers this car to be competitive in this segment, so the comparison of these two cars is appropriate. You have to play against the team in front of you, not the team you wish they were.

the other fallacy of the "the Lexus is from 2005 while the Buick is new" argument is that the Buick is cheaper. While the cars are somewhat comparable, the Buick delivers a similar driving experience, a high level of interior quality and a more accomodating interior for thousands less comparably equipped.

Oh good job you guys. You broke the internets.

I actually test drove both the IS250 and the NA Regal while car shopping.

In my opinion I liked even the non-turbo regal better.
To me the Lexus just had the feel of an old ladies car trying too hard to be something else. It never felt like anything at all while driving it. It is interesting that mostly I either see older women or spiked hair 20 year old guys in them.
The dash is old, and tired and never was right, nothing else to the interior stands out as bad but nothing else really stands out at all.
There are 1 or 2 angles where the exterior looks okay (the above picture is one) but from any other angle the exterior just doesn't come together for me.
The IS250 felt slower than it was, which is unfortunate. Going around corners and giving it a bit more gas just didn't feel like anything. No wonder so many people drive along oblivious to their speed, it doesn't feel good or bad or anything in many cars.
And even though it 'starts' at just over $32,000 all they had on the lot were ones with basic add-ons for just under $35,000. And that was comparing it to a very nicely loaded NA Regal for $29,000.

While the regal doesn't excite from every angle I think it has many more good sides to it than the IS250. The interior, to me, is fresher. The downsides there being the black interior trim on the black interior and the light color 'leather' seats on the lighter interior. I wish they had other options for the piano black trim and there needs to be more contrasting colors to the light interior. It is just too much of too light of a tan color.
Driving it was enjoyable. On the freeway on ramp it seemed to like being pushed a bit harder than normal. Once on the freeway it felt like it would be just fine to drive any distance at all. For me it wasn't as numb or disconnected as the IS250.

I actually test drove both the IS250 and the NA Regal while car shopping.

In my opinion I liked even the non-turbo regal better.
To me the Lexus just had the feel of an old ladies car trying too hard to be something else. It never felt like anything at all while driving it. It is interesting that mostly I either see older women or spiked hair 20 year old guys in them.
The dash is old, and tired and never was right, nothing else to the interior stands out as bad but nothing else really stands out at all.
There are 1 or 2 angles where the exterior looks okay (the above picture is one) but from any other angle the exterior just doesn't come together for me.
The IS250 felt slower than it was, which is unfortunate. Going around corners and giving it a bit more gas just didn't feel like anything. No wonder so many people drive along oblivious to their speed, it doesn't feel good or bad or anything in many cars.
And even though it 'starts' at just over $32,000 all they had on the lot were ones with basic add-ons for just under $35,000. And that was comparing it to a very nicely loaded NA Regal for $29,000.

While the regal doesn't excite from every angle I think it has many more good sides to it than the IS250. The interior, to me, is fresher. The downsides there being the black interior trim on the black interior and the light color 'leather' seats on the lighter interior. I wish they had other options for the piano black trim and there needs to be more contrasting colors to the light interior. It is just too much of too light of a tan color.
Driving it was enjoyable. On the freeway on ramp it seemed to like being pushed a bit harder than normal. Once on the freeway it felt like it would be just fine to drive any distance at all. For me it wasn't as numb or disconnected as the IS250.

I actually test drove both the IS250 and the NA Regal while car shopping.

In my opinion I liked even the non-turbo regal better.
To me the Lexus just had the feel of an old ladies car trying too hard to be something else. It never felt like anything at all while driving it. It is interesting that mostly I either see older women or spiked hair 20 year old guys in them.
The dash is old, and tired and never was right, nothing else to the interior stands out as bad but nothing else really stands out at all.
There are 1 or 2 angles where the exterior looks okay (the above picture is one) but from any other angle the exterior just doesn't come together for me.
The IS250 felt slower than it was, which is unfortunate. Going around corners and giving it a bit more gas just didn't feel like anything. No wonder so many people drive along oblivious to their speed, it doesn't feel good or bad or anything in many cars.
And even though it 'starts' at just over $32,000 all they had on the lot were ones with basic add-ons for just under $35,000. And that was comparing it to a very nicely loaded NA Regal for $29,000.

While the regal doesn't excite from every angle I think it has many more good sides to it than the IS250. The interior, to me, is fresher. The downsides there being the black interior trim on the black interior and the light color 'leather' seats on the lighter interior. I wish they had other options for the piano black trim and there needs to be more contrasting colors to the light interior. It is just too much of too light of a tan color.
Driving it was enjoyable. On the freeway on ramp it seemed to like being pushed a bit harder than normal. Once on the freeway it felt like it would be just fine to drive any distance at all. For me it wasn't as numb or disconnected as the IS250.

@ itbeatswalkin,

I don't think you are getting the point...

My point was, it doesn't look like the Buick is anything better than the IS250 given that it is a much newer car.

I know that these Buicks have come a long ways since the older ones...they look pretty nice, have nicely appointed interiors...but come on. I would have a difficult time choosing a Buick like this one over a Toyota Camry SE V-6, Accord V6, or Maza 6, let alone a freakin Lexus IS.

Back to reality folks.

@ 1487,

Show me where did I say that the IS250 is the BETTER CAR?

I said:

"So Brent, based on the quick review, it looks like the two cars are pretty much a draw. The IS250 is sportier but the Buick is quieter and more of a, dare I say it, family sedan in its nature. The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference."

The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference

The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference

The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference

The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference

The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference

The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference

The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference

Can't you read?

But is either of these vehicles really better than the Lincoln MKZ, which is larger and (in its hybrid form) gets far better mileage?

But is either of these vehicles really better than the Lincoln MKZ, which is larger and (in its hybrid form) gets far better mileage?

RWD or not, people (in this area anyway) buy the IS because its the cheapest Lexus not designed for seniors. Or it was until the CT200 came out. In the NE almost every IS is the AWD model (which means auto of course) and a huge % of them are driven by women. While the IS350 is a serious performance sedan, the 250 is simply an entry level Lexus that provides a semi affordable way to get into the brand. Doing a quick search of inventory showed cars in my areas listed from $39k and up, most of them were over $42k. Its a good bit more than the Regal but you don't get much more for all that cash.

@louis

I dont think you're getting my point. The regal gives you much of what the Lexus does for 7 grand less. The IS is older than most other cars in this price range, that doesn't mean all those cars are light years ahead. The 3, G37/25, CTS and TL are all newer than the IS. I don't know that any of them really blow the IS out of the water in any particular categories. None of these cars are bad cars.

it would be relatively difficult for Buick to offer a car that slays the IS across the board while still maintaining a pricing advantage. The fact that you can say you aren't giving up much if you go with the Regal says a lot- that isnt anything people would've been saying 5 years ago.

One area where the IS shows its age- the nav system and the Toyota parts bin clock. The nav graphics are clearly half a decade old.

But people are willing to pay for the $40k IS250.

What is your point?

If Buick can sell a $40k Regal they will do it too, the problem is that they can't. It's all about supply and demand, about what people are willing to pay.

"let alone a freakin Lexus IS. "

The "freakin Lexus IS" is the 2nd cheapest model they sell. What about it is world's better than the Regal? And if you think the Regal comes up short vs the Camry I don't know what to tell you.

"Can't you read?"

Yep. The comment you pasted 10 times as if you're a child was in fact correct. Too bad you followed it up by saying that Buick really hasnt done much considering it cant top a Lexus that debuted in 2005. And unless you are telling me you would buy the IS over the Regal you do in fact believe the IS250 is the better car. I would say it comes down to whether or not a person is chasing the best car for the money or badge prestige. Badges aside, when you look at both cars and their pricetags the Regal wins.

I actually test drove both the IS250 and the NA Regal while car shopping.

In my opinion I liked even the non-turbo regal better.
To me the Lexus just had the feel of an old ladies car trying too hard to be something else. It never felt like anything at all while driving it. It is interesting that mostly I either see older women or spiked hair 20 year old guys in them.
The dash is old, and tired and never was right, nothing else to the interior stands out as bad but nothing else really stands out at all.
There are 1 or 2 angles where the exterior looks okay (the above picture is one) but from any other angle the exterior just doesn't come together for me.
The IS250 felt slower than it was, which is unfortunate. Going around corners and giving it a bit more gas just didn't feel like anything. No wonder so many people drive along oblivious to their speed, it doesn't feel good or bad or anything in many cars.
And even though it 'starts' at just over $32,000 all they had on the lot were ones with basic add-ons for just under $35,000. And that was comparing it to a very nicely loaded NA Regal for $29,000.

While the regal doesn't excite from every angle I think it has many more good sides to it than the IS250. The interior, to me, is fresher. The downsides there being the black interior trim on the black interior and the light color 'leather' seats on the lighter interior. I wish they had other options for the piano black trim and there needs to be more contrasting colors to the light interior. It is just too much of too light of a tan color.
Driving it was enjoyable. On the freeway on ramp it seemed to like being pushed a bit harder than normal. Once on the freeway it felt like it would be just fine to drive any distance at all. For me it wasn't as numb or disconnected as the IS250.

"But people are willing to pay for the $40k IS250.

What is your point?

If Buick can sell a $40k Regal they will do it too, the problem is that they can't. It's all about supply and demand, about what people are willing to pay."

LOL, here comes the Lexus propaganda.

1. Buick isnt trying to compete in the same price space as Lexus- that's what cadillac is for. That doesn't mean Buick is building INFERIOR products, it just means that they are always going to be below Cadillac.
2. The IS isnt the best selling Lexus
3. The IS isnt the best selling compact luxury car and its well behind 3 series or even C class in sales
4. The Regal has been outselling the IS in recent months
5. Since the IS is a decent entry level luxury car Lexus is going to sell some. The fact that SOME people buy the IS doesn't prove that it's a good value. Cars.com indicated real world pricing on an IS should be about 4 grand under MSRP on a $42,000 car. That's a big gap and it suggests the MSRP is a little too high.
6. You and I both know a huge % of entry level lux cars are leased and thats the only reason many people will drive off the lot in an IS250 that stickers for well over 40 grand. Lexus is advertising IS lease deals right now.

IS sales thus far- 10,503

Regal 9683 but it had advantage over last two months, especially in February.

Granted they dont have perfect price overlap but considering the "baggage" of the Buick name and the fact that the Regal hasnt been around for 6 years while the IS is an established, reputable brand from the top selling US luxury brand its pretty impressive.

HAHAHA! You guys broke the internets.

1. IS250 is an older car, the Regal is newer.

2. Based on Brent's 20-min comparison, no one is the clear winner, the IS does better in some things and the Regal does something else better. It's all personal preference. One is BETTER than the other? I DID NOT SAY THAT

3. The IS is not the best selling Lexus, yeah sure, so the f'ing what? Why does one has to take that into consideration when buying a car? What's the f'ing point?

4. Lexus can charge whatever they want for the IS250 just like Buick can for the Regal. PERIOD. DOT. Whether you want to buy it or not is YOUR BUSINESS, not theirs. Supply and demand, ECON101.

I am done with talking to a moron...

^wow I love reading the same posts 6 times

The Regal is not new, the platform debuted in 2004 on the Aero X concept and has been in production since 2008 in other markets....with minimal changes

So that is a 2 year gap, usually sedans run on 4 year lifecycles. This makes sense.

I have never sat in an IS, I find the exterior not that great, I have seen them in person. The IS is much more expensive when equipped with similar options.

I also still would like to point out that the cars lag from a standstill or low speeds is more likely traction control. The car is responsive above 30mph. Not necessarily fast but turbo lag is very minimal in this car as it was in this engines other configurations.

lousiwei, because people are willing to pay for a certain car has little to no bearing on how a car drives or its quality. It has everything to do with marketing and brand perception. Most people buy cars based on marketing and nameplates (image) not performance numbers and leather quality.

Also, someone said the regal's 'leather'. last I checked the regal uses real leather, not vinyl or 'leatherette'

"lousiwei, because people are willing to pay for a certain car has little to no bearing on how a car drives or its quality."

Did I say that it has???

Did I say the IS250 cost more because it is better, drives better or the quality is better?

"So that is a 2 year gap, usually sedans run on 4 year lifecycles. This makes sense."

The IS launched in 2005, Insignia in 2008, so that's 3 years, not 2. Not trying to nit picking here, just want to get the fact straight.

My buddy's IS is just as nice as the Regal inside. I drove a CXL a while back and it was nice if slow and very boring without the turbo. His IS is quicker and lighter on its feet than the tubby Buick. I am not sure it is worth more but neither car is for me.

My buddy's IS is just as nice as the Regal inside. I drove a CXL a while back and it was nice if slow and very boring without the turbo. His IS is quicker and lighter on its feet than the tubby Buick. I am not sure it is worth more but neither car is for me.

"louiswei says:

12:52 PM, 04/15/11

But people are willing to pay for the $40k IS250."

perhaps not, maybe I pulled the wrong meaning from your post. I still fail to see your point, if the cars do the same thing more or less but the Regal is nearly 10,000 less then the Regal has a hell of an advantage.

And by all means correct me if I have the years wrong, I would correct you. I thought I read somewhere that the IS DEBUTED in 2005 and launched in 2006 but perhaps I was wrong. I probably forgot by the time I made it to the end of the, apparently, 7 comments in this post.....lol. god knows im not going back up there to find it.

"louiswei says:

12:52 PM, 04/15/11

But people are willing to pay for the $40k IS250."

perhaps not, maybe I pulled the wrong meaning from your post. I still fail to see your point, if the cars do the same thing more or less but the Regal is nearly 10,000 less then the Regal has a hell of an advantage.

And by all means correct me if I have the years wrong, I would correct you. I thought I read somewhere that the IS DEBUTED in 2005 and launched in 2006 but perhaps I was wrong. I probably forgot by the time I made it to the end of the, apparently, 7 comments in this post.....lol. god knows im not going back up there to find it.

"louiswei says:

12:52 PM, 04/15/11

But people are willing to pay for the $40k IS250."

perhaps not, maybe I pulled the wrong meaning from your post. I still fail to see your point, if the cars do the same thing more or less but the Regal is nearly 10,000 less then the Regal has a hell of an advantage.

And by all means correct me if I have the years wrong, I would correct you. I thought I read somewhere that the IS DEBUTED in 2005 and launched in 2006 but perhaps I was wrong. I probably forgot by the time I made it to the end of the, apparently, 7 comments in this post.....lol. god knows im not going back up there to find it.

@Louiswei

1487 has never been able to read, or is it understand?.... Dont worry about it, save your breath.

I sat in a nice black/black Regal Turbo with leather and its nice, but not as nice as the 2011 IS350 we test drove twice. Even if we're not comparing interiors, the IS250 (or 350) win based on styling alone IMO.

"3. The IS is not the best selling Lexus, yeah sure, so the f'ing what? Why does one has to take that into consideration when buying a car? What's the f'ing point?

4. Lexus can charge whatever they want for the IS250 just like Buick can for the Regal. PERIOD. DOT. Whether you want to buy it or not is YOUR BUSINESS, not theirs. Supply and demand, ECON101."

You have really been losing it lately for whatever reason.

I pointed out that the IS is not the best selling Lexus nor close to the best selling in class because you made the claim that Lexus charges $40k because the demand is there. There is some demand for the car, but its never come close to matching the sales of the similarly priced C or 3 series. It doesn't even outsell the CTS. So yes, there are people who will pay $40k for the car, but if you look at its overall success you could presume that some find it overpriced or underwhelming vs top competitors.

In addition, the base price of the car is $32k, not $40k so the reality is it starts well under 40 grand and its actually CHEAPER than its counterparts from BMW and MB. While Buick isnt going to try to match the IS in terms of pricing you can be sure the GS model will be in the upper $30k range with all options once it comes out.

"1487 has never been able to read, or is it understand?.... Dont worry about it, save your breath."

I understand that you have nothing to contribute, as usual. The fact that I don't agree doesn't mean I don't understand. The IS350 starts at nearly 40 grand so I would hope it offers something superior to a Regal Turbo which starts just under $30k.

"The IS launched in 2005, Insignia in 2008, so that's 3 years, not 2. Not trying to nit picking here, just want to get the fact straight."

You are correct there, they are about 3 years apart. But the IS delivers similar performance and quality in a tight package for considerably more money. If Buick was charging as much for regal as Lexus charges for IS than I would agree Buick should've done better, but the Regal is closer to the price of a Camry V6 than a well equipped IS250.

"2. Based on Brent's 20-min comparison, no one is the clear winner, the IS does better in some things and the Regal does something else better. It's all personal preference. One is BETTER than the other? I DID NOT SAY THAT"

Based on the subjective analysis above you are correct. I don't agree with the notion that the Regal has an inferior interior that is hard to decipher. No advantage for Lexus there. If I were comparing the two and one is larger, interior quality is a draw, engine is a draw and price is heavily in favor of the Buick the Buick wins. I honestly don't see any advantages to the IS. I have a hard time believing that in traffic the IS feels as fast as the Regal considering the torque gap. Oh and I've never really been a huge fan of the generic IS styling so regal wins that battle as well in my book.

In the pic above the Regal looks tubby....the Lexus, sleek. It is hilarious how ticked the GM-o-philes get that Lexus gets what they get for their cars.

LOL! I think you guys broke the internets!

"engine is a draw"

LOL you are kidding right? That rough sounding 4 is as nice as the smooth V6 for a luxury car? Less power or not it is a nicer engine hands down.

@ dracy69,

The current IS hit the showroom in fall 2005 as the 2006 model year.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Insignia

The Insignia was launched at the 2008 British International Motor Show but it's not cleared that which year it went on sale, so I assumed it was 2008 as well.

The reason that I brought up the year different is because according to Brent's comparo, the Regal does not hold any decisive advantage over the IS250 even though it is newer (3 years if u start counting with the Insignia, 5 years with the Regal). Also, the price difference is not $10k... The loaded CXL Turbo that we have here has a MSRP of $35,185 according to IL and a loaded 2011 IS250 has a MSRP of $39,889 according to www.lexus.com. So the difference is more like around $5k.

Have you ever had a hard time liking someone simply because of the friends they have? Well, this thread is making me have a hard time liking the Regal.

The Lexus wins in some areas. The Regal in others. Shouldn't be hard to admit. Since we all have different priorities in a car and neither of these is a piece of crap, how 'bouts just saying it comes down to personal preference?

"LOL you are kidding right? That rough sounding 4 is as nice as the smooth V6 for a luxury car? Less power or not it is a nicer engine hands down."

Not to mention the Regal's 4-cylinder is less fuel-efficient than the IS250's V6.

"So the difference is more like around $5k."

And that $5K is buying you: 14-speaker ML audiophile audio (vs Regal's 9-speaker HK), power tilt/telescopic steering wheel, adaptive self-leveling bi-xenon lighting with automatic high beams (vs. fixed bi-xenons), semi-aniline premium leather or leather/Alcantara and your choice of trim finishes, active ventilated front seats, Lexus memory system, keyless access and starting, Bluetooth streaming audio, Electroluminescent instrumentation, power rear sunshade, rain-sensing wipers, electrochromic outside mirrors... basically that $5K difference is buying you quite a lot of kit not available on the Regal.

My take is IS250, but still I wouldn't shop either of them.
IS250 gets too pricey to equip with all the options I want.
Regal is more ideal buy to me for the price range(around 30k), but I just can't like anything American in this segment(I like the Charger R/T but it's a different kind). I'd rather take Sonata Turbo (in hot red), Optima Turbo (in bronze), Avalon, Maxima, 2012 Azera, ... holy $hit.. it's all Asian.

Its an interesting comparison I think, because these are two cars that real car nuts are not likely to pay attention to....they're cars you buy for your wife or whatever.

So since most of us here are car nuts (except 1487 who is just nuts) I think we aren't looking at this comparison the right way.

Ppl defending the IS250......guys that V6 is nothing special at all. Camry V6 is wayyyy better. Granted the Regal Turbo engine sounds like crap so the Lexus engine probably sounds better but lets not pretend like the Lexus engine is anything special.

But who cares about engine sound anyway, in cars like this?

The question is Which car would you buy for your wife? I'd get her the Lexus because it still looks damn good after all these years (just like her LOL). The Regal has the weird hockey stick depression on the side and FWD (big nose) proportions, so its not cute. More of a Family Sedan look overall.

Anyway trying to compare these cars like theyre real sport sedans for enthusiasts....just doesn't work IMO. If you really care about driving you will run away screaming from both cars.

-Rod

@1487

"The IS350 starts at nearly 40 grand so I would hope it offers something superior to a Regal Turbo which starts just under $30k."

HAHAHAHAHAH hahhah ha ha ha ha

This is one of those times you fail to understand again. I feel bad for you almost...off in your own little world... Since I was comparing the interior and the exterior, which are essentially the same in both, it wouldn't matter. Its ok, I dont have a lot of faith in your ability to catch on. You've always been slow.

louis, I was running with 1487's posts. I didn't actually look.

for 5k you are getting your money's worth. But when I start pushing 40k I am no longer in the market for a car, that is truck territory. Hence why I don't have a CTS. A HD truck will run you 50k (too much for me) and a half ton just doesn't make sense in my life right now. Hence how I ended up with the Regal.

I could have also gone with a Cruze but I like the Regal better.

I would also like to see the Optima compared to these two,I bet It would make a solid showing, especially when it comes to the tail lights.

I'll take RWD all day long. Next.

Just think, not four years ago this Buick was destined to be the next Saturn Aura. Just sayin'. I guess that given GM's inability to do anything remarkable with the Saturn nameplate that the Buick name might eventually be able to garner enough panache to pull in a Lexus buyer, or the like. I don't know. I miss the direction that they were going with Pontiac with the G8 and such. I still think that the whole Buick thing might never really take off.

Just think, not four years ago this Buick was destined to be the next Saturn Aura. Just sayin'. I guess that given GM's inability to do anything remarkable with the Saturn nameplate that the Buick name might eventually be able to garner enough panache to pull in a Lexus buyer, or the like. I don't know. I miss the direction that they were going with Pontiac with the G8 and such. I still think that the whole Buick thing might never really take off.

"louis, I was running with 1487's posts. I didn't actually look."

You are kidding me right?

"I still think that the whole Buick thing might never really take off."

I think one of the reasons GM kept Buick is due to that Buick has such a big market in China, the largest auto market of the world.

Obviously I can't speak for all Lexus owners/prospect buyers but as a current Lexus owner I can tell you there is no way I would cross-shop the two brands. Cadillac, on the other hand, is a direct competitor imo.

@louiswei

Sure you'd cross shop the brands, if Buick had something to offer you.

I think the point here is that the Buick Regal is not good enough to entice Lexus owners to "trade down."

If you care about the quality of the product, you'll be willing to cross shop anything that's got that certain something, the "cool car" vibe you are looking for. Unfortunately Regal does not have it.

Among American brands right now........maybe Chrysler 300 has it (unless you hate the styling). At least once the eight speed is available. CTS-V has it, maybe. Hard to think of others frankly.

FWIW, I don't think Honda/Acura have anything to offer right now either. Infiniti and the Germans are basically where its at.

-Rod

@rod:

If I can convince you to use common sense for a minute- Buick is largely competing at a lower price range than lexus. That is OBVIOUS. For someone to claim they wouldnt consider Buick when they are drawn to $40k+ RWD compact sports sedans is ridiculous. Of course you aren't interested. Buick doenst make any RWD compact sports sedans. The RX and Lacrosse compete directly with Lexus two most successful products, aside from that there isn't much overlap. Louiswei is saying that because Lexus owners her knows wouldnt be caught dead in a Buick there is no reason to compare cars from the two brands. That is BS. A die hard Toyota fan (like Louiswei) isnt likely to consider any Gm product as a purchase under any circumstances. The fact that he and others who share his tastes wouldn't drive a Buick really says nothing about how competitive or uncompetitive Buicks are these days. You cant really compare a regal turbo to an IS350 but it is reasonable to compare it to a 204hp IS250. The reality is the major differences between the two cars are size and drivetrain layout. That's about it because they perform similarly and both have high quality interiors. Now you can try to get around that by saying Buick isnt as prestigious or by saying the IS should get the nod because its the older car but that's all subjective nonsense.

"If you care about the quality of the product, you'll be willing to cross shop anything that's got that certain something, the "cool car" vibe you are looking for. Unfortunately Regal does not have it."

But the 6 year old IS has that "cool car" vibe? Seriously?

"Obviously I can't speak for all Lexus owners/prospect buyers but as a current Lexus owner I can tell you there is no way I would cross-shop the two brands. Cadillac, on the other hand, is a direct competitor imo.|

I bet you wouldnt cross shop the IS with the ES either. Totally different cars and I suspect the owners of one have ZERO interest in the other. Whether you like it or not Lexus has achieved great sales success on the backs of FWD vehicles. Buick doesn't really have a direct competitor for IS, but they compete very well with ES and Lacrosse and ES sales have been down since Lacrosse has hit the market. Cadillac competes with SOME of Lexus' models and Cadillac competes directly on price. Until Cadillac has a compact RWD vehicle and something larger than the CTS it really doesn't have the lineup size to compete with Lexus. If you add Cadillac and Buick together you basically get Lexus. And if you combine their sales, they easily top Lexus.

"The reason that I brought up the year different is because according to Brent's comparo, the Regal does not hold any decisive advantage over the IS250 even though it is newer (3 years if u start counting with the Insignia, 5 years with the Regal). Also, the price difference is not $10k... The loaded CXL Turbo that we have here has a MSRP of $35,185 according to IL and a loaded 2011 IS250 has a MSRP of $39,889 according to www.lexus.com. So the difference is more like around $5k."

That isn't true, there are IS250s showing up in dealer inventory for $44k right now. Go to cars.com and check for yourself. I priced an IS250 RWD up to $42k with comparable equipment to this regal. What options are you adding?

"I still think that the whole Buick thing might never really take off."

It is taking off, I've pointed that out several times but it goes ignored since on this site people love to speculate and ignore data that will settle many disputes. Buick has had double digit sales growth for many, many consecutive months and their sales were up like 40% in 2010, far more than the market as a whole. Buick is doing all of this with 3 competitive products- a very small lineup.

"Ppl defending the IS250......guys that V6 is nothing special at all. Camry V6 is wayyyy better. Granted the Regal Turbo engine sounds like crap so the Lexus engine probably sounds better but lets not pretend like the Lexus engine is anything special."

How much seat time do you have in a Regal turbo? Or are you just speculating/lying?

"Anyway trying to compare these cars like theyre real sport sedans for enthusiasts....just doesn't work IMO. If you really care about driving you will run away screaming from both cars."

Who ever made any claim about these being "enthusiast cars"? They just decided to compare them since they have similar price tags and similar power. Nothing wrong with that. Its annoying when self anointed enthusiast experts try to tell us which cars we have a right to care about. If you don't care, skip the thread and and focus on posts that relate to cars that are worthy of your attention.

"The loaded CXL Turbo that we have here has a MSRP of $35,185 according to IL and a loaded 2011 IS250 has a MSRP of $39,889 according to www.lexus.com. So the difference is more like around $5k."

@louis:

You ought to know by now I usually have my facts straight.

Lexus' site and allocation policies annoy me, you cannot load up a car after you put in a zip code if such a car doesn't exist in inventory. It is POSSIBLE to load a IS250 up to over $40k, but I can't do it on Lexus' site after I enter my zip because it wont show me all options. RWD car was $38k and AWD car was $42k. This is why you have to use a 3rd party site to find out how much a loaded IS250 really costs, trust me that its almost $7k over the regal turbo. Use edmunds.com and check for yourself.

"And that $5K is buying you: 14-speaker ML audiophile audio (vs Regal's 9-speaker HK), power tilt/telescopic steering wheel, adaptive self-leveling bi-xenon lighting with automatic high beams (vs. fixed bi-xenons), semi-aniline premium leather or leather/Alcantara and your choice of trim finishes, active ventilated front seats, Lexus memory system, keyless access and starting, Bluetooth streaming audio, Electroluminescent instrumentation, power rear sunshade, rain-sensing wipers, electrochromic outside mirrors... basically that $5K difference is buying you quite a lot of kit not available on the Regal."

Tell the whole story. For the $7k you are SAVING with the regal you get more rear seat space, larger trunk, 19" wheels, IDC system with real time damping, twin 12 way seats, Onstar and its related smartphone apps, accessory 115V outlet, 40GB hard drive, superior nav graphics/interface, a full LCD DIC with individual air pressure readings for all tires and a host of other functions, fold down seats and likely some things I'm missing. Don't sit here and pretend the Lexus has ALL of the features found on the Regal PLUS the things you named. As usual, you presume the other people in the discussion are stupid in incapable if doing research.

For those who want to know how I come up with the IS250 MSRP, here are the steps:

1. www.lexus.com

2. Sedan > IS > Build your IS

3. zip code = 90505

4. IS250 RWD

5. Package E

PS. regal also has 8 airbags and adaptive headlights have been dropped from the IS250 per edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/lexus/is-250/2011/

Per edmunds, a car equipped like Bimmerjay discussed is about $42,560 which is over 7 grand more than the Regal turbo. Everyone is free to check for themselves- or they can just believe those who are attacking me for supposedly falsifying info without bothering to verify anything they are saying.

@louis:

You CANNOT load up a Lexus model on their site if such a car isnt in inventory. Toyota does the same thing, they force you pick from configurations that exist. Use edmunds.com and price it with nav/sound package and luxury value plus and see what you get. I got the same total from cars.com.

If you dispute edmunds, that's fine- but don't shoot me. When I said the price gap was 7 grand I got that from cars.com pricing info.

Using the same steps but Philly zip code (19019):

IS250 RWD: $37,231 (only package A, B & C available)

IS250 AWD: $42,199 (all packages are available)

As one can see, Lexus offers different packages for different models to different region depends on the popularity of the packages or the configurations. The Lexus configuration has NOTHING TO DO with the availability of the cars at that region. Based on the examples above, Lexus offers all packages to IS250 RWD in the Southern California area because that model is popular over there but not in Philly. However, all packages are available for the IS250 AWD in Philly. But if one really want to order a loaded IS250 RWD in Philly that person can still do it through special order.

What does that tell us? That tells us that an idiot in this board usually just pull things out of his you-know-what without doing some fact check.

As for being a so-called "die hard Toyota fan", at least I don't do promotional videos for Toyota, unlike some GM nut here...

"But if one really want to order a loaded IS250 RWD in Philly that person can still do it through special order."

exactly and the cost of such a car would be $42k+

I just said that Toyota.lexus will not let you price a car that isnt in inventory, I first realized this a year or two ago when using Toyota's site. The regal IL has in their fleet is LOADED with every option you can get- it doesn't mean that there are many $35k regal's on dealer lots. You and Bimmerjay said that an IS equipped like this car was about $39k which is close to true, but that isnt a fully optioned IS250.

"What does that tell us? That tells us that an idiot in this board usually just pull things out of his you-know-what without doing some fact check."

what you're saying is what I'm saying. The fact remains that an IS with all options is indeed $42k.

http://www.lexus.com/models/IS/features/pricing.html#JOptionPackages

add the MSRP to the two packages I mentioned plus the parking sensors- tell me what you get.

"I think one of the reasons GM kept Buick is due to that Buick has such a big market in China, the largest auto market of the world."

That and because even when Pontiac was around Buick was on a rocketing upward path in sales, popularity, and in overall ratings. The Enclave breathed a lot of life into Buick and everyone was taking notice.

The G8, though critically acclaimed, was not much for a sales success. Neither was the Holden based GTO before it. Those were awesome cars and they didn't save Pontiac.

It's also worth noting that as far as brands go, Pontiac was sporty, Buick was mid grade luxo. The unfortunate fact of the matter is a division dedicated to sports cars and muscle cars is destined to fail. In the current market a brand like Buick that can put out cheap (relatively speaking) premium cars, eAssist hybrids, and crossovers rather than Zeta based sports (literally speaking) sedans, alpha based coupes and roadsters, and maybe a G5 GXP (Cruze SS) makes a lot more sense. Pontiac could have done those things but they wouldn't have much a market to sell to.

The Regal is the current balance of sport and practicality that most middle age americans will go for. That's who it is catering to and certainly who it is selling to. The success of the LaCrosse and the Regal in addition to the continued success of the Enclave show that at least from a business standpoint GM made the right move in keeping Buick and shuttering Pontiac.

China came into play but there would be no issue in scaling back Buick in the US and keeping it in China. Brands can work independently from each other in different markets.

1487 says:

"You ought to know by now I usually have my facts straight."

what a joke

"what a joke"

+1

Edmunds, please add a user block function.

Spend MORE money for a Buick than a Lexus and get a car that only has a couple advantages? Gimme a break. You want to eat Lexus' lunch, and your car has all the brand cache of, well, dirt - you better bring a uniformly better vehicle AND a lower price.

Spend MORE money for a Buick than a Lexus and get a car that only has a couple advantages? Gimme a break. You want to eat Lexus' lunch, and your car has all the brand cache of, well, dirt - you better bring a uniformly better vehicle AND a lower price.

Jaeger what ru talking about?

Jaeger what ru talking about?

Jaeger what are you talking about?

This has been a difficult thread to read, what with all the double posting, etc. I'm extremely late to the game here, so I'll just get my modest opinion out there:

- I think the Regal is the better looking of the two cars.

- Personally, I don't agree with some of the posters who have praised the interior of the IS. I found it cramped and I generally did not care for the layout. I have noted before that I'm a big fan of the interior of the Regal.

- I think the person who has most hit the nail on the head in this thread was louiswei with his comment: "The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference"

When it comes down to it, they're similar vehicles that are in a similar price range. Neither holds a major advantage, so its going to be some of the more intangible aspects that will ultimately help the buyer's decision. I don't know what Lexus' schedule for a new IS is, but as noted previously, the current vehicle has been on-sale for quite some time.

This has been a difficult thread to read, what with all the double posting, etc. I'm extremely late to the game here, so I'll just get my modest opinion out there:

- I think the Regal is the better looking of the two cars.

- Personally, I don't agree with some of the posters who have praised the interior of the IS. I found it cramped and I generally did not care for the layout. I have noted before that I'm a big fan of the interior of the Regal.

- I think the person who has most hit the nail on the head in this thread was louiswei with his comment: "The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference"

When it comes down to it, they're similar vehicles that are in a similar price range. Neither holds a major advantage, so its going to be some of the more intangible aspects that will ultimately help the buyer's decision. I don't know what Lexus' schedule for a new IS is, but as noted previously, the current vehicle has been on-sale for quite some time.

This has been a difficult thread to read, what with all the double posting, etc. I'm extremely late to the game here, so I'll just get my modest opinion out there:

- I think the Regal is the better looking of the two cars.

- Personally, I don't agree with some of the posters who have praised the interior of the IS. I found it cramped and I generally did not care for the layout. I have noted before that I'm a big fan of the interior of the Regal.

- I think the person who has most hit the nail on the head in this thread was louiswei with his comment: "The bottom line is that neither car holds decisive advantage over the other so it's pretty much up to each person's preference"

That’s a pretty close matchup if you simply compare these two cars as similarly priced sedans. However, if you are comparing them as two “sports” sedans, I personally take the IS much more seriously in that department because of the fact that you are comparing a RWD sports sedan to a FWD sport sedan.

That’s a pretty close matchup if you simply compare these two cars as similarly priced sedans. However, if you are comparing them as two “sports” sedans, I personally take the IS much more seriously in that department because of the fact that you are comparing a RWD sports sedan to a FWD sport sedan.

"As for being a so-called "die hard Toyota fan", at least I don't do promotional videos for Toyota, unlike some GM nut here..."

You doing BB level research now? That's a little scary. Weren't you just in a promotional video for the LF-A? Thought so.

"what a joke"

So you dispute info on edmunds and cars.com? I got my facts from those sites. If you believe they aren't reputable just say so.

"Edmunds, please add a user block function."

So I take it that's your way of acknowledging you were wrong after you insinuated that I was wrong. Everytime you're wrong you fall back on whining about me and my posts and crying for a user block function. Grow up and get your facts straight before making accusations. You said IS' price was justified by its longer equipment list but you conveniently failed to list any of the features NOT found on the IS that are found on a $35k Regal turbo. I'd ask to block me too if I were you. Imagine all the misinformation you could spread if I got blocked.

"Spend MORE money for a Buick than a Lexus and get a car that only has a couple advantages? Gimme a break. You want to eat Lexus' lunch, and your car has all the brand cache of, well, dirt - you better bring a uniformly better vehicle AND a lower price."

The Buick is cheaper. How could you miss that? The pricing in the original post is wrong.

When is IL going to fix this site?

PS:

Louis:

Still waiting for you to get back to me on the pricing of the IS as shown on edmunds.com. Does it or does it not come to $42k+ with all options? Since you were calling me an "idiot" surely you can let me know what you found after checking 3rd party pricing.

The video for InsideLine is not a "promotional video", it's a video from an enthusiast to enthusiasts. Your video for Buick is a PROMOTIONAL VIDEO. Period. DOT. As for your comment:

"You doing BB level research now?"

Have you noticed that BB only does that to YOU? He doesn't do that to every other people here, ever wondering why? Because your level is SO LOW TO THE GROUND that the only way to communicate to you is GET TO THE SAME LEVEL AS YOU. Otherwise you'll think that you are always right and other people are always wrong. Just because people stop arguing with you doesn't mean that you are right. People stop talking to you because you are annoying, lame, ignorant, always put words in people's mouth and don't admit being wrong when others called you out but have no problem to call out others. In summary, you are pathetic.

When it comes to pricing I go by each manufacture's website, I don't go to cars.com, autotrader.com or even Edmunds.com. I will take Edmunds.com's TMV into consideration when I negotiate for a new car but I will NEVER take their number over Lexus or Buicks.

Lexus shows me the most expensive IS250 RWD that I can purchase w/o special order in my area is $39,889 and that's the number I am going with.

Want me to put up the link to your video and let others to judge which one is a PROMOTIONAL video?

Hey louis remind him how WRONG he was about Ford GT production levels! If he has any guts he will admit he was wrong......taking bets he wont?

Soo....where's that audio review at?

"Want me to put up the link to your video and let others to judge which one is a PROMOTIONAL video?"

Please do.

"When it comes to pricing I go by each manufacture's website, I don't go to cars.com, autotrader.com or even Edmunds.com. I will take Edmunds.com's TMV into consideration when I negotiate for a new car but I will NEVER take their number over Lexus or Buicks."

Same here - I used lexus.com vs buick.com. I have found that Edmunds for example can take awhile to update their pricing.

"Lexus shows me the most expensive IS250 RWD that I can purchase w/o special order in my area is $39,889 and that's the number I am going with."

That's what I got as well for NorCal.