2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid: Hybrid vs. Bi-fuel

While the North America has a large amount of natural gas reserves - the basic infrastructure to support CNG is still very much behind. Pakistan leads the world in CNG vehicle saturation, but that has more to do with simple economics than government policy. In the United States, we have the luxury of being resistant to change because of the higher SES most people enjoy.

Brazil and Europe didn't have the Hindenburg disaster. (Yeah I know, wrong fuel. But laymans will still equate CNG with hydrogen.)

"(Yeah I know, wrong fuel. But laymans will still equate CNG with hydrogen.)"

Nobody could be that stupid. yes they are both gases but so is the propane that runs everyones BBQ and no one gives that a second thought.

We had a lot of CNG vehicles in Canada a while back and they disappeared because they didn't work nearly as well as gasoline.

My friend in Italy has a Fiat Punto bi-fuel, and she finds it extremely convenient. Compared to the cost of gas there, the CNG is extremely cheap, so if she's around a CNG station, she fills up, and uses that. If not, she just uses the regular fuel in the tank. Having both allows her to save money on fuel and use less gasoline.
Also, at the time she bought her car, there were great deals (thanks to government rebates) on buying bi-fuel vehicles.

Hybrids improve efficiency, bi-fuels improve flexibility. I paid for a hybrid, I wouldn't pay for a bi-fuel, no supporting infrastructure. And if cng was taxed like gas, I don't know that there'd be that much of a benefit.

CNG cars like the CNG Honda Civic need more space for a fuel tank and can't go as far on a tank of fuel as a normal gasoline car would for equivalent volumes.

because the oil companies would lose money. duh.

infrastructure starts with legislative (or huge private) investment, and the oil companies wouldn't let either of those take place. they have a large influence in the government and the automotive industry, ultimately relegating one of our country's most viable natural resources to kitchen duty.

While in Italy last year, I received an Opel Zafira ecoM Turbo as a press vehicle (when I was writing part-time for a few blogs). It ran on metano, Italian for methane. Interestingly, it was a lot harder to find a metano station compared to a CNG station. It made for a few interesting trips with a little bit of range anxiety. Like Warren mentioned, you can switch between fueling systems, however it doesn't help when you need to RTFM to figure out how to do so and the manual is in Italian...

Regardless, I'd have to agree with louiswei and others, one of the biggest reasons is the fueling infrastructure. The lack of a large-scale infrastructure severely hampers many of the gasoline alternatives, in my opinion. However, v8vader and jm1212 have another good point, the fuel tanks need to be larger to provide equivalent range. Over time, we may see more CNG vehicles, but I would have to imagine it would require sufficient support of the government to get the ball rolling for a CNG fueling infrastructure.

Because Americans are too rich and gas is too cheap. Gas needs to be above $10/gal for Americans to really change their habits. When gas is beyond the reach of middle class people and CNG is only 1/3 price, that's when you'll start to see some movement.

arm51, I'm confused. CNG is methane.

@texases - In Italy they differentiate between metano and other forms of CNG. For example, I believe one of the 'regularly offered' types of CNG is propane. I'm not exactly sure why metano is harder to find though...

"because the oil companies would lose money. duh. '

You dont think oil companies drill for natural gas?

Not knowing much about this, I have a few questions.

1. How much trunk space is lost by adding a CNG tank?

2. Is the normal gas tank full-size, or is it downsized to produce a normal driving range using both the CNG and gasoline?

3. Is the performance the same between the two fuels?

4. Is it a zero emissions vehicle when using the CNG?

5. When is the federal government going to stop subsidizing oil companies? Sigh. I guess I know the answer to that. Our wishy-washy President just doesn't have the balls. (I voted for him, and would do it again, but he needs to, as they say, "grow a pair.")

arm51-
OK, then they're mislabeling compared to industry conventions. Propane (like what you use in your bbq) is normally call LPG (liquified petroleum gas), not CNG (compressed natural gas). And I'm not surprised it was easier to find propane, same is true here.

and ed124c:
1. Don't know, they're pretty large
2. I'd imagine they take a normal system and add CNG compatibility, so the gas tank would be normal
3. The IL CNG Civic was pretty weak, as I remember. And all the added weight would certainly hurt
4. No, CNG is a hydrocarbon, but the emissions besides CO2 are much reduced, not zero, though.
5. Large oil companies get next to zero subsidies. The subsidies still on the books are for smaller independent domestic producers. All together they're not that much, but remain a huge PR problem. Nothing like farm subsidies, for example.

Rather than spend the money required to create the CNG infrastructure to support these vehicles I would prefer to see is spent to create an infrastucture to support hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

@texases: Thanks for the reply. I suppose 4 billion dollars is just a drop in the bucket. But that appears to be the amount that is given each year to oil companies. The way oil profits are increasing, one might think that even a small oil company would be able to survive without government help.

Regarding oil company subsidies, it depends on how one defines "subsidy". The oil companies do not get much government cash, but they do get some very large tax breaks for many different things, and it amounts to much more than the $4 billion that ed124c mentioned.

No Congress or Administration has been able to end the tax breaks since they were implemented in the 1940s(?), so if Obama and the current Congress fail to do so, they would simply be the latest in a long line. Not that that is an excuse...it just places them in good company.

No, I don't think it's more than the $4B (still a big #, but not much different than lots of industries get). If you think it is, please provide a factual link.

"But that appears to be the amount that is given each year to oil companies"

The feds dont GIVE anything to the oil companies. The tax credits are for investing money in oil exploration......you know so we can keep our country safe by not having to buy foreign oil???? And this is indeed a much bigger deal for the smaller companies. There are 100s of smaller oil companies you have never heard of busting their ass to find domestic oil and they need those credits to survive and/or keep looking for oil.

That most dont know that is the result of a lamestream media effort to villains of business in this country. Making money and employing people is treated like it is a bad thing to the lamestreams....when indeed it is a noble thing.

I have been driving the Civic GX for two and a half years. I have been paying between $0.96 - $0.98 /GGE (Gas Gallon Equivalent). I home refuel and have pumped nearly 2000 GGE's from the house line into the car.

Since I bought the Civic to commute, I have driven more than 30,000 miles per year. Not driving my 24 MPG BMW, I have avoided buying 3000 gallons of Premium. I spent $2000 more on my home gas bill and avoided spending $10,000 to BIG OIL. You decide what works for you.

When I take a trip, its in the BMW and I pay the price for the convenience and comfort. For daily commuting, its in the Civic.

My current project is converting a 2011 Fusion to Bi Fuel (CNG). The Civic is being retired. I will be making comparable savings on the Fusion starting from Day 1 and will have the added convenience to switch to gasoline whenever CNG is not available. Filling up at home, CNG is available every night for routine daily commutes. Range will be ~180 miles on CNG with a 140 mile commute (round trip).

Update: The Fusion CNG upgrade is complete. First work commute was 40 MPG on CNG versus a typical 36 MPG on gasoline. I will be checking mileage tank by tank (day by day) and will keep the posting updated. My current cost of CNG is $0.93/Gal Equiv. Local gasoline is $3.59 today.

Well, its been a few weeks now and things have settled in. The MPG on gasoline and CNG are apparently EQUAL at 35 for my mixed mode driving. This dips quickly with just a little change in Highway/City mileage mix. Overall, I am completely happy with 35 MPG and $0.93/GGE . Paying $3.62 local average. Costs are $67.58 for CNG and avoidance of $269.78 gasoline for 19 days actual, 2537 Miles driven.

To address ed124c:
1. How much trunk space is lost by adding a CNG tank? Only lost half of my Fusion's trunk - plenty left for luggage and daily incidentals. I added a 6.3 GGE CNG tank.
2. Is the normal gas tank full-size, or is it downsized to produce a normal driving range using both the CNG and gasoline? Factory gas tank from FMC. My total range is 200 Miles on CNG and 500 on gasoline.
3. Is the performance the same between the two fuels? The CNG is perhaps a little less power but not noticeably so. The fuel economy is a wash.
4. Is it a zero emissions vehicle when using the CNG? Emissions are clearly much lower (~80% total) with most of the improvements in particulates and unburned fuel which are near ZERO. CO2 is 20% less with CNG. CO2 & H2O vapors are just about all you get from CNG.

My questions for the rest of you, If I can do this, why don't you? Not that I'm a green freak or stupidly wealthy, I desired to make a diffference, albeit small. I get great satisfaction driving past the corner gas station every day without stopping to drink from their well. My local county bus garage is opening a CNG station, the first with public access in my corner of the state. They will be opening with a price of $2.49 /GGE. Who knows where and when all of this Marcellus and Utica shale gas is going to hit the market.

Raskell, What home CNG compressor are you using and how expensive is it to buy and maintain?

Raskell ; which brand of conversion kit did you use ? cost ? difficulty ? Are state inspections a problem ?