2010 Volkswagen GTI: Still Great, but Aging Fast

Welcome to VW. In another 6 months a random part of the interior will probably pop off. Then bulbs will burn out. Etc. Etc. Yes, this doesn't happen to all people with VWs and those people happen to have perfect VWAG products. They're blessed.

FUD, as usual from the peanut gallery.

The B-pillar noise is a well known issue with the 2-door version and was there from the beginning and is not age related.

Another reason to get the much more practical 4-door anyway.

My 2011 4dr DSG doesn't make the noise. Only 2500 miles with no problems of any kind so far.

It doesn't have the snorkus, but sounds good anyway.

At this point I love the car.

that's funny, my '05 A4 has 122k miles on it. The interior is as tight as the day I bought it new. It still drives great. It is certainly more expensive to maintain and repair than my Maxima was...but to me, it is far more pleasurable to own, use and drive so the expense is worth it.

I test drove an '08 that the salesman said was 'lovingly owned by a mechanic at the dealership'. It rattled like it was going to fall apart. I would have been ashamed to have someone test drive it if it were mine.

But, I've known enough mechanics to know that unless they are the rare super anal version then you don't want their cars. They know enough about cars to not worry about just about any noise the car makes so they pay no attention to anything on it. And the last thing most of them want to do is work on their own car in their off time.

"The interior is as tight as the day I bought it new. "

Just like all cars or anything manufactured, some end up great others not so great. The companies that end up at the top of the ratings just end up with more great ones coming off the line.

My '04 Jetta is squeak free (well, there is an occassional squeak from the blower motor) after 70k miles.

Hey look! VW is DEAD last! Wow, they've managed to move down since the last one of these I've seen. Great work!

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/descending/page-/#page-anchor

I know full well there are always going to be lemons and there will always be gems. Almost all cars fall in between for any brand, but the fact is VWs have miserable long term dependability, and keep having miserable long term dependability.

Also, Audi is #9, which is pretty darned good to me. Buick beat Lexus. Wow.

My friend has a 2009 VW Jetta which I ride in a lot.

The black paint on his radio is already peeling off. His VW service advisor just shrugged and wouldn't fix it.

I've never seen this in any car I have owned (ford, honda, toyota, cadillac, etc.)

fuhteng:

VW is actually "tied" with Dodge, Jeep, Land Rover, Mazda, Mini, Mitsubishi, Pontiac, Scion, and Suzuki for worst overall dependability. They're arraigned in alphabetical order.

That JDPower survey can't be right, can it? My Subaru brand is in the mid-twenties? Everyone in my family has had several Subarus over the years-- right now there are 4 in the extended family and they are all well loved and problem free. I wonder just what info JD gets-- and from where-- to come up with these ratings.

Of course, if Subaru had been in the top 5, I would have posted, "Great survey, JD"

The B-pillar ticking comes from that wide strip of shiny black plastic that runs vertically on the exterior of the door frame. Spray the edges all around with some spray silicone and voila, the ticking should disappear. Fixed it on my 2011 GTI!

@ed124c,

Don't worry, here is a link to the actual breakdown. @fuhteng just arranged them alphabetically.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2010-j-d-power-vehicle-dependability-study/#2811040

In terms of the GTI, a single rattle after 21,000 miles is hardly grounds for saying the car is aging quickly. It would be extremely irritating, but little else.

@ mercedesfan: Well, if that was the only thing, yes, but we still have the bad weather stripping on the driver side door that's causing an equally annoying wind leak. We unfortunately didn't get that addressed at our last service.

However you choose to define them ("aging," "annoyances," or whatever), these issues together would drive me up the wall if I was the actual owner of this car. And our experiences with our local dealer, VW of Santa Monica, have been decidedly mixed over the years. (And I do mean *years* -- my first visit there was back in 2000 with our 1998 VW New Beetle TDI. This dealership sells lots of cars, but I don't know that I trust their work on the service front -- after the oil changes they did on our 2009 Jetta TDI -- and based on our experience with this particular GTI, I couldn't buy one and assume I wouldn't need to visit the dealer to have warranty work done.) - Erin Riches

Erin, thanks for the followup comments ^. From reading your entries, it seems you and I have similar "wants" for cars we'd actually want to own. I know you had a bit of a love affair with the Speed3 =) The GTI has been on my "to consider" list but all the VW issues really make me hesitate to commit. In any event, just wanted to say I appreciate your opinion of the car.

I'm sure some random noise wouldn't bother me in our 2006 Passat since I would be staring at the peeling finish on the stereo faceplate and looking at the blinking CEL (not really blinking but the come and go so often it might as well be). I swear it's had 20 CELs in the last 3 years, about which 5 or 6 I've paid to have something diagnosed and repaired, or self diagnosed it or waited for it to self clear (and I have yet to replace the PCV value which I'm sure is on the horizon). It's really amazing how many little things have gone wrong between 50 and 70K miles. Easily more on this one car than all other cars I've ever owned combined.

It's really a love/ hate relationship since there has been no major failure (nonetheless 2K in bills in last 2 yrs on non-wear items) and I still like the interior even with the peeling finish on the radio, and the 2.0 T is a fine engine when something isn't going wrong with it.

This quality issue, though I believe will hamper their plan of becoming much bigger volume which requires repeat business (like loyal honda or toyota households which there are plenty) and VW has burnt a lot of bridges with years of bad quality (probably including my household).

Forget the car. Erin, please tell me you didn't eat at that pastrami joint. I tried it once, once, and couldn't put enough mustard on the meat to hide the nasty flavour.

Next stop - Currywurst! Or Steingarten...

We need more reviews like this. There are way too many GTI on the roads.

Speaking of reliability. Since my GTI is in a body shop right now, I borrowed my mom's 5 year old Camry for a few weeks, insurance company offered a rental but Nissan Versa is even worst in my opinion. So, after driving Camry for almost two weeks already let me tell you this about Toyota quality - it is total crap. The steering is wobbly, the paint is pealing, the dashboard and b-pillar are rattling and transmission shifts with constant delays. Is it reliable - yes, it gets me from A to B. Would I want to own it - hell, NO.
The moral of my story is that every car has trouble spots. If rattling is the way for you to determine how cars age then you're going to need a lot of luck when buying a new car. And please, those who bought a used car don't complain about reliability. You bought it used, and most likely someone leased it before you got your hands on it and how people drive when they lease a car shouldn't be the breaking news either. How a car feels on a read, oil and gas consumption, engine power, alignment, and cosmetic durability are the factors I'll be looking for when my GTI will hit 50k miles. Does my mom's Camry meet those requirements to be considered a car to own - no, for the exception of oil consumption. I won't argue Toyota makes reliable cars but my mom's Camry is 5 years old and the key word is "old". So, it wouldn't last in my garage if I had own it.

You're right, it is alphabetical after being sorted by number of dots (why can't they use 1 dots? 2 is really the worst?. Thanks mercedes for giving us the right diagram. Which still has VW a miserable 3rd from bottom (ahead of all of Suzuki and Land Rover). It's unfortunate, because the GTI does sound very appealing to me in every other way.

I read in a GTI forum that adding white lithium grease on the door latch mechanism supposedly it works.

Ha, I couldn't agree more! We'd planned to go to Tito's Tacos, but it was closed, and we were hungry, and I thought, well, the neon sign is pretty, the food can't be bad, right? Well, it kinda wasn't great.

Tito's is overrated...

@Erin,

Thanks for the reply. I had forgotten about the other issues and the bad dealership experiences. I quite agree with your assessment based on that information. I would also be hesitant to buy a car I knew would require some type of warranty repair yet had a dealership that I didn't trust. I just feel that "aging" may have been too strong a word choice, but I can see where you are coming from.

Best thing about Tito's is the jingle..

"I love Tito's tacos, you'll love Tito's too!"

It's fun, but kinda bland. The tacos that is.

I've enjoyed reading about the GTI's adventures here, but ready to move on. I hope the IL staff can adopt a Honda Civic Si the moment the new ones are released. Should be pretty soon.

Erin: if you guys have such mixed experiences at that dealer, why not go to another?

My gti has the occasinal ticking but that's it. And unlike otherd here who have few miles on their gti's, or those who have never owned one, or those who have a friend with a 'crap' vw....I have had mine for quite some time, 53k to be exact, and its been perfect and aging rather well.

But I do agree with one thing: they don't get any cheaper to own as time goes on. Parts and maintenance are just more expensive than your average honda, just how vw's in general are more expensive than your average honda. I don't think the long term reliability will be as steller as a honda's, but its not crap like some of you would make it out to be.

Prior to buying my 2010 GTI I had nearly 20 years and 200,000 mi in a 1990 VW Corrado. OK, it cost nearly $20K base in 1990, but it was definitely the best screwed-together VW I've come across. It didn't have any more rattles when I sold it last year as it did when I bought it, the interior AND exterior remained mint, there were the beginnings of the slightest cosmetic rust in a couple areas over a lifetime of northern new england winter travels, original clutch, engine block/internals fine. And this car had all the go-fast bolt-ons of the era for its full life w/o issue, and saw no shortage of hard driving and track use. BUT much of the running gear was '80s Jetta that just couldn't go the distance and was always being replaced.

So here I am 13 months and 10Kmi into a very different VW, hoping (but doubting) it will be as *durable* as the Corrado for the next two decades, and hoping (and believing) the operating costs over 200K will be FAAAAR less than the Corrado, even if it's more than the Hondas. I took a real risk buying the GTI after the Corrado experience and the rumor mill you all reference here; all I can do is keep my fingers crossed...

Two things I've noticed about VWAG products:

1. Their lights burn out ridiculously fast (I saw an A4 avant and a Jetta with burned out tail lights yesterday), and I constantly notice this (headlights too).

2. They have a habit of producing time bombs instead of engines, and then don't educate their mechanics about diffusing them. Case in point: the TSI engine used in the last generation GTI (or B7 Audi A4 TFSI) had an asinine fuel pump issue. Essentially, the high pressure fuel pump is actuated by part of a camshaft via a sliding piston. This wears out in about 50,000 miles, less for more enthusiastic drivers, and when it does it usually breaks into pieces (which fall into the oil pan) and munches into the camshaft. This can end up destroying the engine, of course.

This camshaft follower problem is still unresolved, and replacing it semi-frequently is the only cure. It requires complete removal of the fuel pump (and requires disconnecting the high pressure fuel lines). In an A4, it's in the back of the engine, but in a GTI it's easier to get to.

Most VW techs don't seem to know about it, and will only react to problems with the car rather than perform preventative maintenance. So if you see a for-sale VW or Audi with the 2.0 FSI / TFSI engine and 40-60k miles on it, make sure the cam follower was replaced, or that's probably WHY it's being sold. It won't even have a check engine light until the engine is screwed usually, just hesitation at WOT/high RPM.

Apparently, the newest generation of TFSI engines is still having the problem...

to moreau
The TSI engine has a different camshaft follower (a roller type) which has no problems so far on cars after 50k miles, chain instead of belt, much better fuel pump and many other improvements. The engine in this car is the least thing to worry about. As far as buying a used VW, I would stay away from any used car even if it's Honda or Toyota because any used car is a potential "time bomb", unless you know how it was driven and maintained.

"Don't worry, here is a link to the actual breakdown. @fuhteng just arranged them alphabetically.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2010-j-d-power-vehicle-dependability-study/#2811040"

GM's volume car unit, chevy, is waaaay below average but Buick is much higher but does not sell a huge amount of cars. All of Ford's divisions are above average....right about what CR says about them. I am waiting for the spin on that one. Many people on here are convinced that CRs ratings dont mean a thing...some, like me, dont trust JD Power because the accept advertising from the cars they rate. Either way Ford is hands down has the best ratings of American car makers.

"Don't worry, here is a link to the actual breakdown. @fuhteng just arranged them alphabetically.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2010-j-d-power-vehicle-dependability-study/#2811040"

GM's volume car unit, chevy, is waaaay below average but Buick is much higher but does not sell a huge amount of cars. All of Ford's divisions are above average....right about what CR says about them. I am waiting for the spin on that one. Many people on here are convinced that CRs ratings dont mean a thing...some, like me, dont trust JD Power because the accept advertising from the cars they rate. Either way Ford is hands down has the best ratings of American car makers.

@body,

I think it has already been spun, this study was released last March. The 2011 Dependability study should be out any day now, though, and that will start the arguing all over again.

As a side, I think people tend to put more stock in JD Power simply because they are so public about the way that they collect data and process it. CR, on the other hand, is very secretive about what they do. On top of that, they will make a quality rating with only 100 samples (a statistically insignificant amount) and take data only from subscribers to the magazine (again, a statistically insignificant percent of the population). Nevertheless, they both have a place and those who try to deny either one are doing themselves an injustice.

@body,

I think it has already been spun, this study was released last March. The 2011 Dependability study should be out any day now, though, and that will start the arguing all over again.

As a side, I think people tend to put more stock in JD Power simply because they are so public about the way that they collect data and process it. CR, on the other hand, is very secretive about what they do. On top of that, they will make a quality rating with only 100 samples (a statistically insignificant amount) and take data only from subscribers to the magazine (again, a statistically insignificant percent of the population). Nevertheless, they both have a place and those who try to deny either one are doing themselves an injustice.

Aaarrrggghhhh! Darn you double post!!!!
:)

@mercedesfan

100 samples isn't necessarily an insignifcant number. There are plenty of medical studies that use 100 or less patients in clinical trials that change the practice of medicine everyday. An intro statistics class will tell you that anything over 10 will actually give you a minimum to appropriately perfom a statistic analysis. Also there are specific measurements and statistic calculations that assess the "significance" of a reliability statistical calculation. CR is INSANE with their testing, and they're some of the most rigorous in the business. I wouldn't knock a 100 sample from them.

@apopuri,

Just because 10 numbers is enough to perform statistical analysis, does not mean it is a valid, or even meaningful, result. When tens of thousands of units (if not hundreds of thousands) are sold in a year, 100 samples is not representative of the entire set. This is why you will see wild changes in CR's reliability data from one year to the next even if the manufacturer makes no significant changes to the car.

I certainly agree with you that CR is extremely thorough with their testing, but just because they analyze 100 samples extremely well doesn't mean the result is any more meaningful.

(I should point out that in most cases they have many more samples than 100 to gauge reliability, but for many luxury/specialty vehicles that isn't the case)

I'm really surprised to see Mazda so far down on the list. I'm driving a 2003 Protege I bought new and the only repairs I've had to make in 120k miles were a clogged thermostat a couple of years back and new struts this last week. My parents had a 1994 Miata that never gave them issues, and their 2009 MX-5 is similarly solid.

Meanwhile, their 2010 Touareg bust a pump after three months.

MBFan...be sure and post the new one when you see it....

Regarding the creaky B-pillar - spray some white lithium grease on the door jamb, that will get rid of it for a while (yes, it's coming from near the seat belt anchor... the magic of NVH). Rumor has it that there's a TSB out for it that adjusts the door and the striker plate as well as adding a bit of foam inside the door to deaden the acoustics on it.