2011 BMW 528i: Track Tested

Seems the chassis development is a worse impediment than the relatively weak engine. BMW is rapidly racing toward the mediocre, so it's only too bad they can't even come close to matching Lexus for reliability in that segment.

3910 lbs?
That's a lotta potatoes for a base car
Rusty

That thing got more body roll than Florida Evans.

@firstwagon

15k options only the sport package change how it handles.

I will spend 15k to buy ANOTHER car, instead of options. I don't feel driving $60k 528i happier than a 45k one. for brand image and self-esteem (be honest as a lot of people buying BMW for, excluding enthusiasts), 45k base model do the trick

I'll take a CTS-V Wagon, you keep your 240 hp, $60k BMW that has dynamics no better than my 6.

I would never buy the base car (though I have no problem with IL choosing it), but 7.1 seconds aint bad. That's a good enough time to feel fast, My last car was a 7 second car and it felt plenty quick. More than adequate for me, and I'm a car enthusiast. This is why I know that 98% of buyers will have no problems with it.

Also, I'm sure this motor is absolutely creamy and delicious. I would rather have the N54 or N55, but I know what people who say they prefer the NA BMW I6 are talking about. Winding a BMW I6 to redline is about as close to perfection as you can come in a car.

the world's first 60k Camry

and the reall Camry weighs LESS!

same 0-60 time lol

^ A V6 Camry will run 0-60 in the low sixes.

http://www.insideline.com/toyota/camry/2007/v6-family-sedan-comparison-test.html#article_pagination_top_1

I remember reading the Motor Trend article when the Camry was 2007 Car of the Year and they clocked a Camry SE at 5.9 seconds. Toyota's corporate V6 is a sweet-sounding and powerful motor.

Nothing wrong with engine, but it sure is FAT. And yes, don't look at that Camry V6 driver the wrong way, or he'll blow you away at stop lights. How is that for being humiliated with your cappuccino on your lap??? But i assume the lard arses driving thing, can’t be bothered to go more than speed limit.

As we have said before, new BMW 5 series became too big. I take a old gen 5 series (CPO) with the pretty bangle butt

who in their right mind would buy this over a ctsv?

"who in their right mind would buy this over a ctsv?"

There are plenty of people in the East and West Coasts who wouldn't touch a Caddy with a 10-ft pole.
Not saying whether it's justified, but that's the way it is.
My argument would be "who in their right mind wouldn't want a chopped 7-series, reasonably equipped, for $50k"? I would, if I were looking for a midsize cruiser.

A sport package with summer tires on a pedestrian 5-Series sedan? Seems like a waste of money, if you ask me. Most buyers opting for this trim level would select more comfortable all-season tires, I'm sure.

With all those option packages Xenons were still optional at $900?! Thats insane. If I'm spending that much ona car Xenons need to be STANDARD!

"My argument would be "who in their right mind wouldn't want a chopped 7-series, reasonably equipped, for $50k"? I would, if I were looking for a midsize cruiser."

I wouldnt want one. Overpriced, dull styling inside and out, etc. I'll pass. Reasonably equipped at $50K? LOL, surely you jest. I guess you mean reasonably equipped for a $25k family car. At $50k you will be skipping all types of luxury features. BTW, speak for yourself with the Caddy nonsense. I live on the east coast and CTS', Escalades and SRXs are EVERYWHERE. Just say YOU wouldnt touch them with a 10 ft pole because you are preoccuppied with what import driving badge snobs might say about you if you rolled up in anything American. Not everyone bases their car purchases on what others might think.

The performance of the car is acceptable for daily uses but unacceptable for a $60k car. You will get smoked by virtually every V6 family car on the market plus the Sonata turbo. No car costing $45k should come with such a weak engine standard. Put this 3L in the 3 series, not the 5.

Its funny that the CTS has been critiqued for being slow compared to the G37/335i when its still considerably faster than this car which actually costs more. The reality is the 535i is so expensive that its a CTS-V competitor while the 528i (in stripped form) competes with the 3.6L CTS.

Florida Evans, LOL.

lostboyz says:
"who in their right mind would buy this over a ctsv?"

Are you kidding? A CTS-V?

That's a completely different customer. I can see you saying that if this were an M5, you know, like comparing apples-to-apples; but not against this entry-level 5-Series. The person shopping this car is interested in the BMW image, along with it being a comfortable cruiser. It's not meant for the gearhead, like the CTS-V is. In fact most 528i buyers could care less about 0-60 times, G-forces, or slalom numbers. They want comfort, luxury, and with a little sport thrown in for good measure. That's it. Period.

I assume this vehicle is targeted at the older, less enthusiastic market and as such, the lack of speed is irrelevant. Even though BMW is a 'sports brand', they still need to offer something to the Lexus-crowd.

Don't feed the troll, guys.

Its decent but it doesmake me wonder why the gti on all seasons was given such a hard time

Hmm... even the latest issue of Consumer Reports (which tested the 535i) said that it has lost it's handling edge. Oh well. Then again, so did Car & Driver.

WOW, this is so much better than I expected. Fast, nimble, competent. Outstanding for a large, heavy sedan with automatic transmission.

"Chassis isn't snappy like an Infiniti. BMW is showing a change of direction here."

Oddly enough, seems to be true. New 5 owners that I have spoken with are saying the same thing. Not as engaging to drive as previous editions, but quite competent once you get used to it.

@jacton

BMW has been nickel and diming customers for years; remember this a 60K vehicle WITHOUT a NAV system so don't be surprised by $900 for Xenon headlights.

Everyone needs to remember that for some just being able to drive around in a BMW is enough. Like others have already said the brand is what people are buying because if if you look at the vehicle itself (in this trim level) you aren't getting much.

Seems decent. Nothing special but to all those going on and on about the turbos... look into HPFP issues. Yeah, it's not pretty. Yeah the N55 has 1 turbo but I can't say it's definitely resolved.

I would think this model will be at least 2/3 of 5 series sales. It certainly makes the M37 seem more attractive by the minute.

240 out of that 3L inline 6 is a joke. Its capable of nearly 300hp, but BMW chooses not to do it as not to eat into the 3L Turbo.

"In fact most 528i buyers could care less about 0-60 times, G-forces, or slalom numbers. They want comfort, luxury, and with a little sport thrown in for good measure. That's it. Period."

That's true for *some* buyers. My boss is one of them. He has an '04 525xi. He complains about how underpowered and slow it is, so he hates the engine, but loves the rest of the car. He said he wouldn't buy a base engined 5 series again. I told him about the M5's 500hp, and he said "wow, that's way too much power! I don't need that!" So I guess for him, the 535 would be the right model for what he's looking for. Mentioning he could get a CTS-V with 556hp to him for the same price would be like talking to a tree. He likes BMW, doesn't have a problem with the price they charge, and he has no interest in that much horsepower.

LOL, every time I see a BMW somewhere... I mean seriously, outta the small 15% of folks that actually want ANY BMW for the driving experience, why would u buy this....$60K are you kidding me!!!! All those options man, I mean damn, a G37x at the base price of this 5 is a better buy. I have my HID headlamps, AWD, wwwayy more 'get up n go', ect.....Those HID headlights and the other packages need to be standard..All those crazy ways to nickel and dime you.. But watever, I have 0 problems with driving a car that I LIKE, versus a car that I want to IMPRESS others with...

derrell, nobody is impressed by a BMW and nobody in 2010 still thinks their BMW will impress. BMWs are a dime a dozen.

The M is the more appropriate competitor to the 5, by the way. The G's a big damn car too, but it's positioned to compete with the 3.

To all those whining about having to pay extra for things like Xenon headlamps: gadgets, options, and feature content are obviously more important to you than driving dynamics. Please go buy an Acura TL where the only decisions you have to make are with or without technology package and AWD or wrong-wheel-drive. You'll save a lot of money and get Xenon headlamps standard, but note they'll only be low-beams and inferior to BMW's bi-Xenon lamps.

At least BMW gives the opportunity to, for the most part, option the car like one wants without forcing to buy a lot of other things one might not want just to get those things (Infiniti). After driving a 535i back-to-back with an E-class, it still seems to have better handling than its closest competitor, but it is sad to see in the chassis comments that BMW is caving to the wishes of the masses in order to capture sales and market share instead of remaining true to its heritage.

Never fails, same arguments come up on every new test. I'll admit we're all spoiled by the latest benchmark of 5-second family sedans, until 2020 when all sport sedans are 4-second cars and the newest Bugatti will do 0-60 in .75 seconds, ha! So ofcourse this looks like a weak engine, but like others are saying, it'll cater to the Lexus crowd who want to expand their ego.

And yes the nickel and diming of BMW continues.. xenon should definitely be standard. My father purchased his first "Mercedes" in 2007 and was so excited to finally make it at that point in his life where he could comfortably own a "Mercedes" and bought himself a C300 4matic and being the old fashion Italian he is asked, "Why don't I have those blue lights like you... my Galant had yellow, what the hell is this?!"

And the G37 xenons are bi-xenon. Can't speak for the TL, but again, maybe we're all spoiled by the benchmark that's been set by others like Infiniti or heck even Kia with their LED DRLs on their latest creation.

More bang for your buck. BMW should have all that bang standard if others do, I'm sorry. Maybe not navi, but xenon and bluetooth are almost a must have now-a-days, if not for materialistic reasons, but for safety reasons.

IL, seeing as though this is a driving enthusiast website, why oh why did you buy the BMW Yuppie Edition??

yeesh forgetaboutit. 128i and 328i may be viable options for the enthusiast crowd, but not the 528i...

Ultimate Driving Machine? I honestly can't see a reason to buy one of these over my Mz6 sGT. Sure the cabin has nicer materials and the badge has bragging rights but the attention to details in the design and overall driving enjoyment seems to be pretty close, if not eclipsed by the half as expensive Mazda.

That said if I had any confidence in long-term service costs I would love to have a Bangle version. I saw a Bangle version of the 5 at lunch and man it's so much better looking than this tableswpoon of vanilla extract. 60K?? Uggh

my only point to the ctsv comment that if I were going to spend $60k on a luxury vehicle, it would be a ctsv

"To all those whining about having to pay extra for things like Xenon headlamps: gadgets, options, and feature content are obviously more important to you than driving dynamics. "

LOL, you really think most BMW buyers care about driving dynamics? Stop watching BMW ads and repeating their propoganda and join us in the real world. TL's and 5ers are used the SAME way in the real world. What type of driving dynamics do you need to drive between home and starbucks in the average American suburb or exurb? It amazes me that people really buy into this BMW marketing nonsense. BMWs are first and foremost status symbols, not tools for exploring twisty roads.

"More bang for your buck. BMW should have all that bang standard if others do, I'm sorry. Maybe not navi, but xenon and bluetooth are almost a must have now-a-days, if not for materialistic reasons, but for safety reasons."

Considering how handsfree is becoming the law of the land its baffling that luxury brands like BMW continue to make bluetooth an option on most models.

Moar power please!!

Seriously though, majority of the 528i's will cost $50-53K and this level of performance will be more than adequate for base-engine-buyers. Maybe not for me or a lot of other enthusiasts, but this car is certainly not geared towards me. The braking and handling numbers, however, are pretty decent despite the loss of feel in the driving experience (boo).

"remember this a 60K vehicle WITHOUT a NAV system so don't be surprised by $900 for Xenon headlights."

This is a $45K vehicle optioned to $60K, and it does have the navigation option. The 535i, which starts at $49.6K has the bi-xenon adaptive headlights standard.

Whether the customers care about it or not, BMW has always emphasized excellent driving dynamics in every vehicle it makes...

that is, until the F10 5-series came long..

Agree that the level of performance is "adequate" for the needs of the typical buyer, but I don't think that's the point when buying a status car like this one. Regardless of options, this is a $45-60k BMW (self-titled Ultimate Performance Machine), and it should have more power than it's currently packing (0-60 in 7.1 s; 1/4 in 15.1 @ 92). Can't argue with the handling or braking numbers though, they are about where they should be for the base 5 series.

leadfoot1202

My father drives a 2009 TL and it does not have bi-xenons. Only the low beams are HIDs.

You should have gotten the manual.

@bimmerjay

This specific vehicle does NOT have a NAV system and that's whay I made the point earlier. BMW is the only auto maker with enough arrogance to charge what they charge and leave out so much that is standard with most others.

A few years ago Edmunds/IL did a test of what I think was an X3 (I'm not 100% sure of that) but I distinctly remember the price of their vehicle was over $40K and it didn't even have a standrd CD player with the stereo!!! INEXCUSIBLE

@half_ton:

Yes, it does have a navigation system. It's included as part of the "Premimum Package 2".

To quote from the intro:
"Our Deep Sea Blue Metallic 5 has it all: keyless entry, heated seats and steering wheel, rearview camera, side- and top-view cameras, split-fold rear seat, navigation, eight-speed automatic and Sport package, including 18-inch Dunlop SP Sport Maxx GT tires."

@ptcdawg:

The 528i is not available with a manual transmission in the U.S. The 535i and 550i are available with a manual transmission.

Re: 1487
" BTW, speak for yourself with the Caddy nonsense. I live on the east coast and CTS', Escalades and SRXs are EVERYWHERE. Just say YOU wouldnt touch them with a 10 ft pole because you are preoccuppied with what import driving badge snobs might say about you if you rolled up in anything American. Not everyone bases their car purchases on what others might think."

Did I ever say I wouldn't touch a Caddy, or did I ever say the disdain is justifiable? Think again:

e90_m3 says:

09:52 AM, 10/ 5/10

If only this [CTS-V wagon] came out before I bought my M3 sedan. But in this economy I'd be happy with a S4 Avant. Are you listening, Audi???

Pick your battle, 1487. Not everyone waxes poetic about all things GM in every waking moment.

@travelingman79

I stand corrected and thank you for pointing out my error.

@bimmerjay

Since travelingman79 poited out my error I must acknowledge you were correct in your previous post but I still stand behind my earlier comment that BMW does nickel and dime it's customers. I was wrong about the NAV but I was accurate in my other comments.

@half_ton,

"This specific vehicle does NOT have a NAV system and that's whay I made the point earlier. BMW is the only auto maker with enough arrogance to charge what they charge and leave out so much that is standard with most others."

You are incorrect. This specific vehicle DOES have navigation as part of the Premium Package 2. And at this price point, nav is optional on virtually every other car in the class.

"A few years ago Edmunds/IL did a test of what I think was an X3 (I'm not 100% sure of that) but I distinctly remember the price of their vehicle was over $40K and it didn't even have a standrd CD player with the stereo!!! INEXCUSIBLE"

Back then the in-dash CD player was a no-cost option over the standard cassette player.

Perhaps you need to update your preconceived notions on the levels of standard equipment that come on this car. It's very competitive with other cars in the class. Such as: Automatic wipers, 10-way power seats with 4-way lumbar and memory, power tilt/telescopic steering wheel, moonroof, iDrive, HD radio, 12-speaker premium audio system with dual subwoofers, advanced independent dual-zone auto climate control, Bluetooth, the 8-speed automatic and keyless ignition.

"Pick your battle, 1487. Not everyone waxes poetic about all things GM in every waking moment."

niether do I but I see you turned to a familiar refrain to avoid the points I made. The FACT is that I live on the east coast and see modern Cadillacs all the time. And yes, the usual suspect imports like BMW and MB are very popular here as well. That FACT isnt an example of "waxing poetic", its just reality and it shows that your comment about people "on the coasts" not wanting to touch a Caddy was baseless. That may be true in Cali but they hate all American cars out there so I don't really consider them to be representative of any other area.

While imports tend to be more prevalent in higher income coastal parts of the country west coast disdain for American cars seems to be a lot worse than east coast disdain.

"LOL, you really think most BMW buyers care about driving dynamics?"

again, i'll say 1487 is not a driving enthusiast. he's about arguing facts and figures. he doesn't care about performance (other then the quantifiable numbers) and he paints everyone else with the same brush finding it impossible to understand how someone might choose a bmw for any perceived handling/performance benefit.

bmw owners know that bmw's ride the line between handling/comfort better then any manufacturer in the world. they are the yin/yang of automobile driving. you can have softer rides, you can have sportier rides, but no manufacturer consistenly gives you a better combination of both.

"TL's and 5ers are used the SAME way in the real world."

true, but a 5-series is much more of an enjoyable driving experience to the gas station and supermarket. at 10, 15, 30, 50, 75 mph... doesn't matter.

"BMWs are first and foremost status symbols, not tools for exploring twisty roads. "

if this were true then more people would buy mercedes. take the average mercedes driver and the average bmw driver and the MB driver is gonna prefer a softer ride and the BMW driver is going to prefer a more performance-oriented ride.

also, why is bmw cca such a succesful organization if bmws are "not tools for exploring twisty roads."? all the track days held around the country every year? how many lexus or caddy clubs go to road courses?

not every bmw owner is a pure driving enthusiast, but the mere fact that they chose a bmw over a lexus, MB, jaguar, etc indicates that they (more likely then not) prefer a vehicle that is gonna give them better handling and sportier feel then the other cars.

@travelingman79,

"The 528i is not available with a manual transmission in the U.S. The 535i and 550i are available with a manual transmission."

I prefer to say the 535i and 550i are available with an automatic transmission. ;-)

Well said, s197gt. The BMW CCA is very active around the country, and you see a wide range of vehicles at the events.

"not every bmw owner is a pure driving enthusiast, but the mere fact that they chose a bmw over a lexus, MB, jaguar, etc indicates that they (more likely then not) prefer a vehicle that is gonna give them better handling and sportier feel then the other cars."

Which is reason for disappointment that BMW has taken away some of the driving feel in the F10 5-Series. The best distinction of the E60 and prior was how it offered that unique feel you couldn't get in a mid-lux Mercedes, Lexus, or even an Audi, alas it has been diminished here.

Re: 1487

"niether do I but I see you turned to a familiar refrain to avoid the points I made. The FACT is that I live on the east coast and see modern Cadillacs all the time. And yes, the usual suspect imports like BMW and MB are very popular here as well. That FACT isnt an example of "waxing poetic", its just reality and it shows that your comment about people "on the coasts" not wanting to touch a Caddy was baseless. That may be true in Cali but they hate all American cars out there so I don't really consider them to be representative of any other area.

While imports tend to be more prevalent in higher income coastal parts of the country west coast disdain for American cars seems to be a lot worse than east coast disdain."

If you care to spend a couple of seconds READING comments here before typing, you'd realize that I said "plenty of people in the East/West Coasts", not "everyone" not wanting a Caddy. If only 1% of cars here in NYC are Caddies you are looking at about 20000 of them within the five boroughs. That there are Caddies where you live does in no way invalidate the statement. If you were an engineering graduate as you claimed, you'd have seen the serious flaw in your logic.
As an extension, given the generaly higehr income in these areas, you'd have expected to see a good deal Caddies as a percentage of vehicle ownership. The fact that there are far more Germans and Japanese (near) luxury than Caddies only buttresses my statement, that many here simply would not consider a Caddy. My wife is one.
You are sorely mistaken if you think I, or most folks here, bought a BMW to impress the Joneses. As BG.com says, no one here gives a hoot about regular German cars. I wouldn't turn my head for a BMW/Merc unless it's a classis E30/36 M3, or a Black Series AMG. Any classic but well-kept Porsche also gets my nod. 997.2 Turbo? Couldn't care less. New S-Class? Probably for tax writeoff.

One more point:
My wife thinks Caddies are "Gangsta", and I know many with the same sentiments. Perhaps Caddy is just reaping what they sown?

@e90_m3 -

"The fact that there are far more Germans and Japanese (near) luxury than Caddies only buttresses my statement,"

You're comparing entire countries of origin (i.e. ALL their brands) with one brand. Hardly a fair, or apples to apples comparison.

In any case, Cadillac ranks #4 in luxury brands in terms of market share in the U.S. So they have less market share than BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus, but more than Infiniti, Audi, Acura, Jaguar, and Lincoln.

"One more point:
My wife thinks Caddies are "Gangsta", and I know many with the same sentiments. Perhaps Caddy is just reaping what they sown?"

With one vehicle? (Escalade) I don't think so. No offense to your wife, but is she a barometer of every luxury car buyer in the U.S.? Don't think so. Everyone has different opinions of what a particular brand means to them, and often stereotype people who own a particular brand. Your wife may think Cadillacs are gangsta. Someone else might think a Cadillac is for old people. Others may think Cadillacs are cutting edge. Others yet may view Cadillac as the best of the best (people often refer to top of the line things as "this is the Cadillac of ____"). Some people may think BMW owners are a-holes. Some people think Porsche owners are stuck up snobs who don't know how to drive a performance car. The list goes on. Name the brand, and there is a stereotype or image of some sort associated with it, and ask 10 random people their opinions, and you'll probably get 10 DIFFERENT opinions.

"but they hate all American cars out there"

And here 1487 you make generalizations similar to the very ones that you were reprimanding e90_m3 about. Take some of you're own advice: "it shows that your comment about people "on the coasts" not wanting to touch a Caddy was baseless." As was yours. My uncle lives on the west coast and sees several American cars where he lives (San Jose/Palo Alto area)

We all know that you aren't an enthusiast, don't drive to work, and love GM, ok? Now use some of that engineering knowledge and write some intelligent comments.

As for the BMW, is it their new product strategy to go backwards in performance? I quote an old C/D article testing the e39 530iA:

bhp: 225
0-60: 6.7s
skidpad: .82g

Nein, nein, nein!

Although BMWs are usually highly optioned this is excessive. $60,000! The 2011 535i you tested in September was 60 grand.

Re: SR454

"You're comparing entire countries of origin (i.e. ALL their brands) with one brand. Hardly a fair, or apples to apples comparison."

Well, I guess I should have said "there are far more BMWs (or Mercs, or Audis, or Infinitis, etc) than Cadillacs (or Lincolns). THAT is an apple-to-apple comparison.

The only Caddies I see regularly are long wheelbase 'Slades, used for luxury livery service. The CTS trails BADLY behind just about every near-luxury model here. When you see more Saab 9-3s here than CTSes here, Caddy's got an image problem.

"offense to your wife, but is she a barometer of every luxury car buyer in the U.S.?"
Didn't claim she is, but there are enough people (notice I did not say "every single car buyer") thinking that way. Many folks here still think Caddies are for rappers (or wannabe ones) or old folks. Is it fair? No. Is this upon Caddy to convince them otherwise? You bet.

"Perhaps you need to update your preconceived notions on the levels of standard equipment that come on this car. It's very competitive with other cars in the class. Such as: Automatic wipers, 10-way power seats with 4-way lumbar and memory, power tilt/telescopic steering wheel, moonroof, iDrive, HD radio, 12-speaker premium audio system with dual subwoofers, advanced independent dual-zone auto climate control, Bluetooth, the 8-speed automatic and keyless ignition."

I would challenge that comment. The 528i's standard features is actually: 17-inch wheels, rain-sensing wipers, a sunroof and power and heated side mirrors, leatherette upholstery, eight-way power front seats, driver memory functions, dual-zone automatic climate control, a power tilt-and-telescopic steering wheel, iDrive, Bluetooth, BMW Assist emergency telematics and a 12-speaker CD audio system w/HD radio.

This info coms from Edmunds' own site and in case anyone missed it you can spend $45K and get "leatherette" . . . PATHETIC.

"At least BMW gives the opportunity to, for the most part, option the car like one wants without forcing to buy a lot of other things one might not want just to get those things"

HIDs and leather would be the things I want and expect over $30K, let alone mid-40s. The sport package would be an option I'd purchase as an extra. I also believe I have to pay extra to get rear side airbags and a folding rear seat, as if more safety should be optional on a $45K+ car and the folding rear seat is no-cost on a lowly Civic.

There's more to a car than just features. If you just wanted a boatload of equipment, Hyundai would be very happy to sell you a Sonata. If you wanted a big engine, Nissan would be happy to sell you an Altima V6. The level of engineering and build quality that goes into the 5-series is what makes consumers buy them and why journalists praise them. I've driven its competitor, the E-Class, in Europe with just a 1.8 liter CGI engine (E250), and even with not much power, it was a genuinely premium and high-quality driving experience. There's something to be said about the way the door slams, or the thickness of the sheetmetal, or the quality of interior materials and switchgear. A Mercedes or BMW without equipment is still a Mercedes or BMW; a Lexus ES350 without equipment is a Toyota Camry.

It's interesting to see how well the 528i did on the slalom and skidpad, considering it doesn't have the Active Roll Stabilization found on the 535i's Sport Package. On the 528i, it's just active dampers and higher performance rubber.

Leatherette - also known as "vinyl" in vehicles that don't cost over $40K and come from the Fatherland.

"I would challenge that comment."

What are you challenging? You pretty much repeated what I posted. You can read all of the standard content highlights if you'd like on BMW's own website:

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/content/vehicles/2011/5/528isedan/features_and_specs/default.aspx

You're just looking for reasons to hate. Thinking a car is "pathetic" because leatherette seats are standard is, quite frankly, pathetic. There are lots of options, yes, but for less than $50K you can still get a few choice things like leather and heated seats if you want. Believe it or not, a lot of people do not get leather on the 3-Series or the 5-Series, which is one reason BMW offers leatherette.

"You're just looking for reasons to hate".

To read such a statement makes me think I struck a nerve.

The point I'm trying to make and what you are reluctant to acknowledge is that BMW often charges extra for features that the competition does not. "Leatherette" was just an example but I could've just as easily used keyless ignition (standard on some vehicles less than $25K) . As cz_75 stated you expect a certain level of equipment at a certain price point. Who cares if some buyers don't want leather, at $45K my car better damn well have that and MUCH more but like I'll say it again; BMW is the only company with enough arrogance to nickel and dime customers the way they do. They know their name has a prestige factor that will make some buyers overlook the fact they're getting less standard equipment (and now a less rewarding drive) than what the competition offers.

If you can be objective and set whatever personal bias you might have aside you'll see this. If not then the name says it all . . .

Seems like a lot of spend without a whole lot of "ultimate driving machine".

CTS-V, please. In fact, make it the wagon.

If I've got this right:

the 528 allows folks to step into luxury vehicle territory, but the steep price of the "usual luxury specifications" drives the price up, so the 528 is more in the budget than the 535, and far more affordable than then 550?

BMW owners just drive for the badge, to say they drive a BMW (indicating they have secured enough income to purchase (or lease) a luxury brand, that's more fun to drive than Mercedes?

and most BMW owners don't get leather, because they feel that it's already standard in a vehicle in that particular price bracket, and don't actively think of upgrading?

The arguments presented here are... interesting

half_ton says:

"I'll say it again; BMW is the only company with enough arrogance to nickel and dime customers the way they do."

That's false- have you seen the way Porsche works with their biblically long options list? =)

But seriously, I think it works great for bmw to offer you ways to customize your model.

I wanted to get an x5 with only the options i needed, and I found one within the payment range I felt I could live with.

ex. I didn't want the premium stereo, but I wanted the ipod integration... check.
I wanted the premium and the sport package, with 20" rims instead of the 19"... check
I didn't want the silly 3rd row seats...
I didn't want the rear dvd screen...
Optioned the car exactly the way i wanted, and then called dealers to find the car and got pretty close.

Before you accuse me of buying only bmws- I've owned mazdas (2), ford (1), infinitis (2), audi (1) driven with family on mercs, lexus, toyotas, etc.

I like getting close to exactly what I want or need. BMW gets me close to it.

I guess your problem as the Architect put it in the Matrix: "is choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction..." You are going to buy a Honda... or Acura.

I can remember the LS we had- 3 years of ownership (lease):
we did not use the automatic parking 1 time.
Most of the time the Mark Levinson stereo was turned volume low.
The rear sunshade was barely used.
The adjustable rear seats were unused.
The rear seat heaters were unused.

Wouldn't be amazing if we could chose not to have stuff we don't want?

Leather should be standard though, i agree with you on that.

Average car, above average price. BMW knows it's buyers pretty well and knows that only a tiny percentage cares about performance/handling. All of their mainstream cars will get softer and softer because the reality is that the people who keep this company afloat (read: not the people who write magazine articles or post here) want isolated chambers to shuttle them around in stop and go traffic- which is what 90% of Bimmer buyers will do with their cars. The fact of the matter is that non M BMWs are no longer special. Contrary to popular belief, BMW does not put any more "engineering" into their cars than anyone else who plays in this league. The BMW reputation is largely rooted from previous generations when the competitors didn't pay as much attention to driving dynamics. Now that the competition has bolstered their efforts in that arena, it leaves BMWs as tired looking overly complicated vehicles.

It's interesting to see people try to defend BMW when the very company in which they pay homage has clearly defined their new path that has all but banished the whole "ultimate driving machine" experience. Perhaps the slogan still applies to the M/is models but your run of the mill bread and butter 328/528 are just par for the course folks, let's just accept it. BMW is going in the direction of increased sustainability aka profits- sport be damned. "Enthusiasts" often know more about driving then making money so let's stay in our realm knowledge and not pretend that the majority of BMW buyers are sold because of the "driving experience."

Chavis I kinda agree, except every BMW owner I know - which is a lot around here - all repeat the same thing: they love how it drives. Audi/VW folks have an affinity for the way the car feels just sitting still. This is the unquantifiable nature of the brand. Maybe they've all been brainwashed or maybe the people putting these things together know how to make people feel things to match the brand. What one person calls heavy steering an avid BMW fan may call just right. What is serene and peaceful in a Lexus may be devoid of life to an Infiniti fan.

Just saying, people do often end up buying cars because the cars have a feel that appeals to them...

["Pick your battle, 1487. Not everyone waxes poetic about all things GM in every waking moment."]

1487: "niether do I"

Funniest. Comment. Ever.

Blue- I could go along with that if people didn't know the brand of the car before testing it out. Once we hear the letters BMW or words Audi/MB, etc, our minds instantly "assume" better. I've seen it happen first hand. Heck, some of my coworkers have even said they won't even shop certain brands. In one case, a lady here has only purchased Hondas in her adult life and told me while she finds other cars nice, they simply aren't built as well. In America, preconceptions have replaced facts. I've even heard people who have no knowledge about cars claim German cars are all superior to the competition simply because they are built in Germany, whatever that means.

No one can tell me the interior of the 3 series or C class is better than a Buick Regal- both are built in Germany but one is branded by an American company. I guarantee that if you sampled 10 people, at least 8 would prefer the BMW or MB based on not a single tangible finding.

"That may be true in Cali but they hate all American cars out there so I don't really consider them to be representative of any other area. "

Another stupid comment from a lot boy in Phlly who thinks he is an engineer. Read the comments on this thread....your cover is blown, why not just give it up. Since you dont live in California, dont even comment on it, you (as usual) dont have a clue.

"That's false- have you seen the way Porsche works with their biblically long options list? =)"

It was funny to read that. Instead of going back and forth I'll just say if nothing else we agree on leather and leave it at that.

Chavis - I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying people are basing their buying decisions in hard numbers. They're basing it on a feeling.

Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Audi, Honda, Ford, Mopar all have a certain feeling - the steering wheel, the weight of the steering, the interaction of the accelerator and engine, etc.

Are BMW 3 series car better than say a G37? No, for the money the G37 gives more room, more power, more technology, a better dealer experience, better warranty, better reliability and if bought CPO a much better deal. The G37 on paper is the clear winner from a logical point of view. Car buying, like movie watching, home buying, wine tasting doesn't come down to easily quantified numbers. For some reason some people really do like one wine over another even though they're 99.5% alike; there's that extra bit of oak in the barrels that some drinkers can taste and they are willing to pay that premium for that little uptick in flavor.

I can find a dozen things to tear apart in a BMW interior v. an Audi or Lexus or Buick. But the moment I put those cars in gear and begin pressing them into corners, listening to the engine, feeling the chassis, I know what I like. I know which one feels right. Suddenly the list of deficiencies fades as it just feels right. I can't stand the appearance of my Mazda3, I find the interior cheap and sad, the space is constricted by the dorky styling, the mileage awful, tranny sucky and yet I throw it into a corner and everything that makes me think my Mazda sucks disappears... suddenly, I'm smiling because it's a joy to rotate that chassis.

Why is CTS-V being mentioned in the same breath as a 5 series?
I am beginning to question if some of these people have ever read a car magazine?
The back seat of a CTS or V are rather small compared to a 5 series. The CTS is more in line with the 3 series in space. And the whole reason for buying a "mid size sedan" is to have more room for passengers. A base level 5 series provides that, especially the new ones.

That is why someone would buy a 528i instead of a CTS (V)!

I would not because of its V8 cost with I4 performance.

"The point I'm trying to make and what you are reluctant to acknowledge is that BMW often charges extra for features that the competition does not."

Yes, that's true, but at the same time BMW offers other features that the competition does not (or charges extra for), such as the 4 year/50K free scheduled maintenance (which is very generous, they even include brakes), the 4 years free of BMW Assist, free real time traffic and the ability to send addresses remotely via Google Maps for the nav system.

I don't take it personally and I've owned lots of cars besides BMWs, foreign and domestic. People rarely understand why a BMW, or a Mercedes, or an Audi costs more until they at least drive one or own one and see the kinds of details and engineering that goes into these cars. It's not a matter of arrogance and charging for leather, rather it's offering a lot of other content that simply doesn't pop out on a standard features list. Like how BMW's DSC has the ability to dry the brakes while you're driving, compensates automatically for brake fade by measuring the heat generated at the pads, and provides e-diff and corner brake control functions as well as even re-directing the adaptive headlights in the direction the driver intends to go if the car begins to slide. Stuff like that you'd never know about that goes into the car's design and costs money to engineer. If you don't get that, you won't appreciate the car and you shouldn't buy one because you'll derive more value out of a car with more features like standard leather seats.

I won't deny that BMWs aren't expensive - they are. Their products have allowed them to charge more. I'm fine with paying the premium for them, as I would for any car out there that I feel is worth it. Many of the competitors charge less for the same "features" because they haven't proven the same value in the marketplace.

@bimmerjay

We both know that the 528i has a starting price of $45K. Hypothetically speaking let's say one purchases this vehicle WITHOUT ANY options; a bare bones base model. Most of the itmes you mentioned will not be available to you. I again stress that we're talking about a car WITHOUT a single additional option (yes I know these won't be on any dealer lot) and look at what that $45K has bought you.

THAT is the vehicle I'm talking about and THAT is the arrogance I speak of; can you honestly say that relative to the competition your money was well spent? Taking a page from dkhm3 it would be nice to tailor your vehicle to exactly the specific items you want but once more I'm speaking of a $45K car WITHOUT options. When you factor in the notion that BMW may no longer offer the satisfying drive it once did that purchase seems that much more diminished.

It is completely logical and reasonable to expect certain itmes in a certain vehicle segment and price point. In that end BMW fails . . . they simply fail.

sure its a lot of money for not that much car. but hey its a BMW, a luxury brand. thats how it is. people are paying extra for the privilege, and perhaps the dealer experience. if you want a LOT of car for little money in this class, get a Genesis.

Maybe I am out of touch, but for $60k I want more.

I mean, you can get a 385hp Jaguar XF Premium with the 5.0L V8 pretty loaded up for that $60k.
And it is nicer inside, has a better engine, similar economy, better brakes, and, to quote Edmunds:
" Around corners, the XF has considerable grip and surprisingly high limits. The steering is a little light and numb, but the XF is still more fun to drive than many competitors."

I mean, dollar for donuts for the same price as a 240HP BMW I can get a 385HP Jaguar that to my eye is better looking.

As I said, maybe I am out of touch on this one.

500rwp - I can't fathom buying a car based on appearance. Simply doesn't make sense to me.

I'd have to drive the Jag and carefully consider the past, present and future of Jag to decide if I'd go that route. An Infiniti M or a Hyundai would probably get me before going down the Jag, Audi or MB path but then again maybe a drive would change my tune.

60K is whata typical 535i goes for. I sell BMW and we NEVER sell a 60k 528i. Edmunds purposely puts loads up options on a car. The majority of these with premium 1 and premium 2 (which includes 99% of everything people want) would make the car under 55k which makes it really a lot of car for the money. As an example if you build an Audi A4 Wagon 2.0T with similar equipment to this (less actually) it will go for 48k which is overpriced also. Also how about a mustang GT for 40k and a challenger for almost 50k? GT500 58k. Audi A5 2.0T 49k. Do you see where I am going with this. The car is not 60k 99% of the time its under 55k most of the time.

I meant Q5 for 49k.

Hey half_ton-

No one buys a BMW for a bargain.

I agree with what blueguydotcom says:

"But the moment I put those cars in gear and begin pressing them into corners, listening to the engine, feeling the chassis, I know what I like. I know which one feels right."

Look, I've tried other cars- I had an Audi B5 S4 after my E46 M3 and I just never got to like it. Went through 2 G35's for my wife and she loves it, but I don't compared to my 3 series.

the true test for me is at the end of a hard days work I get excited going to my car and driving home. It's fun for me thinking about my commute.

If you value things on how much of a bargain it is- realize that companies sell things based on supply and demand... if BMW can charge 60k for this car and people buy it, then more power to them.

You're right as a bargain- BMW's fail.

Nike's are not bargains, you get more shoe value from buying asics.. new balance... etc.

why buy calvin klein underwear when fruit of the loom will do? it's the same cotton on your buttocks.

God, just look at Apple's list of bargain products... fail!

"We both know that the 528i has a starting price of $45K. Hypothetically speaking let's say one purchases this vehicle WITHOUT ANY options; a bare bones base model. Most of the itmes you mentioned will not be available to you. I again stress that we're talking about a car WITHOUT a single additional option (yes I know these won't be on any dealer lot) and look at what that $45K has bought you. "

In all of my posts in this thread, ALL the equipment I listed is standard on the base bare-bones $45K 528i except for the adaptive xenon headlights and the RTT/Google maps feature for the nav system.

I should also point out that it's extremely easy and encouraged by BMW to custom-order your car. ALL of my BMWs have been ordered, I've never taken one from dealer stock. And I have never paid more than a few hundred over invoice either with the exception of my '10 M3. It takes 4-6 weeks depending on what coast you live on assuming there's no backlog of demand. You could order a completely base 528i if your heart so desires, that's something that's nearly impossible to do on a Lexus or a lot of other makes. You HAVE to buy an expensive option package bundled with a lot of stuff you don't necessarily want to pay for.

Always had an easy time ordering BMWs. When I checked out the IS350 I learned I simply couldn't order it. I could tell them what i wanted and the dealer would watch was it built trying to get it. Weird system. With BMW it was a phone call, a touch of negotiating for x price over ED wholesale and then a deal.

@blueguy.com

I wouldn't compare the Hyundai to the Jaguar. Perhaps that's snobbery, but the Jaguar interior is in a different level to the Asians. And having spent considerable time in a few of these cars, the Jaguar ride quality is less sporty than the BMW in steering feel and low speed turn-in, but the combination of soaking bumps with good body control that Jaguar has is in the sweet spot of what I want in a car. And my point was to compare the 240HP BMW #you could even compare the 300HP 535# to the Jaguar with it's almost 400HP V8 at a similar price point.

I used to own a Jaguar S-Type R. I will tell you the joy of walking to the car you find attractive, getting into a gorgeous real walnut accented interor with fine leather, and then the faint rumble of the V8 with it's fantastic torque and power is nice. As to Jaguar reliability, I will take it as equal to the others. None of the higher end sedans is as reliable as a high volume midsize car; there are too many gadgets to break. But I had my Jaguar until 75k miles and it was in the shop once for unscheduled maintenance in that time. The most credible beef with Jag should be the lack of interior room--they are comparatively small inside due to the styling. And you sit lower than in a Mercedes or BMW. I respect those who don't care what their car looks like--but I don't understand it.

To me a car at this price should be beautiful, comfortable, powerful, hushed at speed, and should make your drive something to relish instead of tolerate. And for me, the 240HP #or even 300HP of the 535# isn't getting it done at a $50k+ price point. For some people it will, but I'm not one of them.

500, yeah we're coming at this from different angles.

To me HP and appearance just aren't that important. I found my less powerful 2003 235 HP 330i ZHP far more fun by far than my 300 HP 335i. Heck, my 170/180 HP Cooper S was way better than my 335i and 2006 330i (260 hp). I don't want a sunroof, leather or wood accents. Give me a simple 'ette seat, a manual, xenons and aluminum or carbon fiber trim. No need for a working radio, dual HVAC, steering wheel controls or airbags in the back. CD player? What for? USB/iPod? No thanks. Navi - like hell. Bluetooth - it would be nice so as to comply with the law.

^^^Agree about the Performance Package. We should mention it had the best steering rack BMW put in ANY of it's production cars at that time (even better than my M3). Many M3 owners switched to the PP steering rack. It was that good. The ZHP also had a great sounding exhaust, which also topped the M3 set-up.

Of course, the ZHP is exactly what people in this discussion are talking about, when it comes to BMW. On the face of it, the Performance Package was a very pricey option ($4000) that got you 10 extra HP and 8 ft/lbs more torque, to 222. You also got hotter cams, an even sportier suspension, an Alcantara interior (including the steering wheel), a rear diffuser, the coolest-looking-ever rims BMW has made to date, and a few other little things. Most buyers can't get past the $4000 charge for a measly 10 horsepower increase.

BMW said the PP knocked a half-second off the 0-60 time of the 330i, down to 5.9 seconds. I don't think I ever noticed this. But I loved the handling and sound of that car. The exhaust note almost duplicated an American V-8. It was a low growl that sounded just plain mean. BMW's rasp has always rubbed me the wrong way.

BMW lets you build these things the way you want them. Take advantage of it.

People are complaining that the 5 series shouldn't come with a 'slow' engine as the standard car.
In Europe, the 5 series is first and foremost a FOUR cylinder car. Massive proportions of sales are four cylinder diesel 520d's. Yuk.

But its good to see that people arn't happy with even a small 6 cylinder...maybe that will cause BMW to delay dropping v8's in favour for 6 cylinders in the 5 series and dropping 6 cylinders for turbo fours in the 3 series.