2010 Volkswagen GTI: Why I'd Keep It Nearly Stock

I would maybe do wheels and tires but I usually keep my car's stock.

Keep it stock. Jeopardizing your warranty isn't worth the trouble.

I've *finally* learned that you never win with a car that tries to do everything. Anytime you do that, you end up with a compromise that isn't perfect. That's why enthusiasts should have a dedicated go-fast car and a dedicated everyday car, IMHO.

I tried to find the perfect compromise, first with a 02 Ford Lightning, then a 04 WRX STi, and finally a 05 S4 Avant. I finally figured out that the answer (for me) is a Flex with a towing package and a cheap project racer (TBD, probably first-gen Miata).

So leave the GTI as-is for daily driving and get a cheap racer to mod.

I agree with keeping things stock. If you buy a car like the GTI or Mazdaspeed3, it's likely to be your daily driver. While sporty, these cars make concessions that people get because they seek a car they can use for many purposes (extra seats/doors, front wheel drive, etc). Why do anything that jeopardizes the reliability or livability of your car?

Who wants to hear a loud exhaust note every time they engage first sitting in traffic, or to be rattled to pieces going down an alley? How about if you upgrade your engine and something goes wrong - what are you going to do when your daily driver breaks?

I'm all for modifying a car, but not if it's a daily driver. Of course, this is just my opinion for how I treat my own things, it doesn't bother me in the slightest when I see others do this.

mine will definitely get tires and light weight wheels - beyond that I am not sure.

I MIGHT tune it... but I don't know...

I would get an ECU flash for around $600 bucks. It's good for 50hp/90ftlbs! I'd also get a good intake, downpipe and a high-flow cat, but that's it (I'd leave the stock cat-back exhaust). Some sticky rubber on the stock wheels to round out the package. For around 2-3 grand, you'd have an evo fighter.
If I had extra cash I'd get some lighter wheels, but that is VERY pricey! As far as suspension mods, for a daily driver MOST modern hot hatch/sporty cars have fine suspensions. They only start to show their limits on a track. Most of the time it's fine for DDing and you'd sacrifice a lot of drive-ability (Miata excluded :P ).

Totally agree with your logic. If you bought a GTI chances are you want a comfortable daily driver that isn't too terrible to drive on a backroad, but have conceded the fact that you are probably not going to be a heel-toe hero on a daily basis. It's not an amazing platform to mod for performance so you might as well stick with the comfort it offers.

I don't have a problem with modding a daily driver. The key is to not go too extreme. For example, I added the Mazdaspeed CAI to my MS3. An easy 24 bhp(which shaves 0.6 seconds off a 3rd gear 30-70 mph run) for $315. Downside? A bit of intake hiss audible when the windows are rolled down and/or the radio is off. I also have a set of 2010 MS3 wheels which will wear Yoko ADVAN AD08s. Downside: none; I have the stock wheels with PZero Nero All Seasons for winter. Finally, I'm installing a set of Bilstein HDs. Again, there's no downside; the stock struts/shocks are short-lived and under-damped.
None of these changes compromise the car's daily utility one bit, but they do make it more fun to drive- and all for under $3,000.

I have strict policy on not modding FWD cars it doesn't pay dividends in the end.

Now if you were to put a economy tune you would have a daily driver that gets better mileage but of course being in California it would near impossible to pass smog so I guess you are stuck with better wheels and tires.

I would keep it stock (though I might swap out for better tires and would have chosen a different wheel in the first place) until the warranty expires. After that, an ECU upgrade and open up the intake a bit more.

Wheels, tires, stiffer dampers (I heard that the GTI gets compromised damping in relation to the overseas version), maybe swaybars, and a chip.

Nothing else, because anything else might screw with reliability.

I would definately go for more horse power (APR). 50bhp does not hurt this car and you do not have to use it all the time (although it is really hard to stay off the pedal). It does not turn car into torque steering monster, 100% reversible, and transferable for extra fee.

For daily driving the rest of the car is just fine imho. May be louder exhaust and get rid of sound generator, but this just me. Other then that car is great.

If you to take the car to the track, lighter wheels and better tires are must.

I would not swap suspension, as I think it will ruin the car.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!! Lets put all the crying to rest and do a comparison with a few add ons. Set a budget of say $2000 and see how much or what the car is able to do without going overboard. Plus it would answer the question if it's actually an improvement or a daily killer.

the Euro tuning crowd actually cares about comfort and refinement, so you will find a higher level of aftermarket tuners here. very built examples don't sacrifice much at all in terms of comfort. contact APR www.goAPR.com and see if you can test one of their cars. i think you will be pleasantly surprised.

I love those wheels personally and would never change them. the GTI's appeal as the hot hatch that you can live with would be compromised if you tighten it up.

Doesn’t the US GTI sit half an inch higher than the European one, so it could get five side-impact safety stars rather than four? I think I’d be willing to lower a GTI a bit.

ECU reflash for 260hp and 300lb-ft.

Bilstein PSS9 coilovers

black 17x8.5 BBS CH with sticky rubber.

done.

I put new wheels and tires (225-45-r17 Continental Extreme Contact DW_ on mine and I'm quite happy with the subtle change in character. Coming from those heavy rims and the soft stock AS rubber it adds a bit of liveliness and response with very little ride pentalty (technically, lighter rims should translate into a better ride).

I for street and back road duty the stock suspension is fine because part of that refinement is the GTI's character (even if they did take it a bit too far).

Does the ECU reflash void any warranties? Do they have one that hits about 240 hp?

If you're looking for more tinkering, doing something about that obnoxious wastegate that makes it sound like the car is constantly leaking air when you're on the throttle (though an ECU flash might alter that character in a positive way) might be a good idea. A custom exhaust to enhance the far too subtle, but pleasant exhaust note could be good too if you've got money to throw away.

But yes, keeping it close to stock sounds like a good idea.

If you want to retain as close to stock but improve, I recommend installing a stiffer rear sway bar to help with the body roll and make a mild ECU tune to open up the engine a little bit (APR comes to mind).

Ah...something I can truly weigh in on.
I drive an 09 A3 with the Sport Suspension (S-Line) and one mod: its chipped.

So I've got slightly sportier suspension tuning than in your guys's GTI, and I love it. Still perfectly liveable (road noise loud on rough highways gets kinda bothersome, but thats it) and having all that boost on tap when the roads get twisty is indescribable. The DSG holds gears exactly where they need to be so that instant torque from the turbo is always available.
Are my wheels lightier than yours? I don't know...they're the Sport Package 18" wheels that only look ok imo and look pretty darn heavy. My tires are definitely better than yours, too...so none of this is apples to apples. All I have to say is I want to keep modding my car, but nothing is easy to justify when I consider how happy I am with the car as it stands currently.

In conclusion: meh, draw your own conclusion.

I think keeping it as close to stock as possible is a good idea. Me, personally, don't think will ever take it to the track. But APR stage I is the only upgrade I did to my GTI. Love it, and it justifies $600 price tag. VW of Santa Monica said they don't care about stage I upgrade especially if it's APR, both companies work together, it's Audi Performance and Racing after all.

If I were to modify it I would just change the rims and thats not something I would be willing to do so quickly. I would even leave the tires since there is no point in getting extreme performance tires because it will eventually get cold and the experience wont be as pleasant.

The APR reflash is painless for this car, and you can put it in stock mode and lock it out so the dealer can't see it without working hard to find it.

I'd do the APR flash, swaybars (so you don't screw up the ride quality, but firm up the cornering) and better wheels and tires. By choosing the right parts from the right vendors, the car should only get better.

I pretty much agree.

Currently I own an '06 STI and as I made a hobby of autocrossing it I've modified it rather extensively to perform better in every way. Ohlins struts, RCE camber plates, Whiteline sway bars, COBB ECU tune & downpipe, 255/40-17 tires on lightweight wheels, and around 75 pounds of weight savings altogether. It has far better balance and much higher limits than it did in stock form. But it's a little rough and noisy to drive daily. And when it comes time to sell it I'll get something that's tame by comparison.

If I get a GTI it'll be for the nice ride/handling compromise it delivers. And I think doing too much to the suspension would just ruin that balance. The ECU tune may be hard to resist. And like you, I'd likely get lightweight wheels with sticky tires. And performance brake pads and fluid may be on order to avoid any chances of fade down mountain roads. Other than that I'd resist any other urge to modify it.

I plan on wearing down the A/S Dunlops on the 18" Detroits, then when it is time to buy new tires I will sell the Detroits and buy 17" OZ Alleggerita lightweight wheels wrapped in sticky summer rubber (have not decided which brand yet as the tires are only a month old - 1,200 miles..and we might get some new tires on the market by the time mine wear out).

The wheel/tire mod is the only one I am convinced on doing...after that I will look at possible APR ECU and/or intake/cat-back...but I won't look at that until after the three year warranty is up....at least that long....want to enjoy the car as is right now!

I've had my GTI a little over 3 years now and have managed to refrain from messing with anything.

and frankly, i don't regret it. as a daily driver and weekend play-toy (on country farm roads, not a track); it serves its purpose quite well. obviously there are many here who think it "needs" to be much sharper, but it suits my needs well in stock form.

oh, those dunlops lasted 40k miles for me, which i was stunned by... switched to bridgstones though for better wet grip(the dunlops were garbage in the rain).

@zcalvert

40k miles?! Wow....it might be a while till I get my lightweight wheel and sticky tire set up!

Although I am trying to take corners hard to speed up the wear process! Because that means new wheel set up!

I have an '09 GTI (same engine as 2010). I started out thinking the same way. Now I can't imagine going back to stock. I have the APR ECU tune with APR full exhaust and intake. The exhaust is simply the best aftermarket product I have ever experienced. I forget it is there until I roll the windows down and push the go pedal.

The APR tune works flawless. Being able to switch back and forth with ease is great. Just when you don't think you need all the extra power, a quick switch back to stock mode shows how wrong your temporary thinking was.

I have found some aftermarket parts with my GTI to be a bit extreme for me. I installed aftermarket engine mounts then went back to stock after quickly getting tired of the increased noise and idle vibration. There were many +'s to the mounts but it changed the character of the car too much.

Inside Line needs to set a budget and try this stuff for yourself. Tell your testing director Dan E to loosen the budget and have some more fun. Just tell him I said so.

heck, just go to an APR dealer and get the free trial. no budget needed.

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@carterbw77 -

i know... i was just as surprised as you. i tend to baby my tires and brakes unless i'm specifically out having fun on empty roads, so that certainly helped.

i didn't feel like shelling out the $ for dedicated summer and snow tires, so I stuck with all seasons for the second set. Bridgestone RE960's suit the car pretty well. Quieter, better in the rain, perhaps a little less ultimate dry grip. Good luck with the lighter wheels; it's too late in the life of this car now, but I wish I had done that a few years ago.

finally you guys decided to post something like this.

guess what? automobile mag actually went through the trouble of doing this already for you guys.:

http://www.automobilemag.com/features/0712_2007_volkswagen_mkv_gti_2008_r32_comparison/index.html

this was with a comparsion to a mkV r32. granted around the track, the extra hp and torque was a detriment towards the gti, but with awd, there are very few fwd cars that can keep up with an r32.

the konid fsd dampers made the ride BETTER than stock, and body roll was controlled even better. no test to back it up, but i'm sure the fsds would be putting up better numbers than stock.

power? their dsg equipped gti made more power to the wheels than the last mazdaspeed3. torque steer after the new ecu was installed? ZERO.

does that answer your questions brent?

oh and sherief: ditto :)

wongck: not an amazing platform for performance? lol. you need to do your homework a little better before posting stuff like that. i know guys whith honda fits running high 13's in the quarter mile on an engine and chassis that was never meant to do what they are doing with it. the gti is one of the best performance canvas to start with that you could possibly choose while choosing a newer chassis.

@eldaino2

Take a look at the article you linked. The modified GTI was putting down about the same hp as a stock R32, but was significantly slower around the track because it was overpowering its front wheels. Its suspension was modified but also couldn't match the stock R32's grip. I can't speak for wongck, but that's probably what he meant when he said the GTI wasn't an amazing platform for performance. At some point when you start increasing power, even with suspension modifications, you run into the limitations of a FWD platform. Even in the article, they mentioned accidentally lighting up the front wheels in daily driving. Not to mention that lowering the car noticeably decreased steering feel (a by-product of lowering mcpherson strut susp cars like the GTI).

So the GTI is a car that when you increase its power, you run into FWD traction issues and when you modify its suspension, you lose some steering feel (and arguably some ride comfort). Most importantly, the modified GTI is still slower around a track than a stock R32. I think the GTI is good at what it's intended to be (a sporty daily driver), but when you start modifying it, the limitations of its platform start to show (heavy, FWD, front mcpherson strut layout). For those reasons, if I owned a GTI, I'd probably keep it fairly close to stock.

One thing worth mentioning about the stock 18” Detroits: they are SUPER Easy/Quick to clean…AND they stay looking clean for a long time…brake dust does not phase these wheels…

As much as I want to put lightweight 17” wheels with summer tires on…I don’t know if I want to give up the great clean look/easy to clean when needed of the Detroits.

I'm not modding a VW GTI, but I do have my eyes on a set of Indigo Chrome wheels for my Chevy HHR. I think it would go well with the deep blue color. I would like to also add the Cat-back performance exhaust and performance air filter.