2010 Mitsubishi Outlander GT: The Old Switcheroo

Mazda also does it right. I can't see doing it the way Mitsu has it here. Completely counterintuitive. I do see a benefit having it in an SUV (or any car for that matter). In the absence of a stick, having the ability to choose gears gives you more control. The standard 1 and 2 or L and 2 in some Autos isn't enough.

i tried driving my GTI in manual mode and could not upshift for some reason and my downshifts seemed to upshift... turns out it was me that was the problem. i already knew forward was upshift and back was downshift on this car, but instinctively i went the other way when i focused on driving. just so annoying... and paddles still dont feel right to me.

i dont want a manual on a daily driver, so i'll have to put up with it.

I think it makes enough sense. In the Evo, its manual mode is a performance tool, so it makes sense that you'll be harder on the brakes and harder on the gas while you're using it, thus triggering the accel/decel connection with the plus and minus on the shifter. But in the Outlander, you'll probably use it to hold a gear on an up or down grade or something mundane, so the g-forces aren't really a factor and it's more of a basic controller where "up" and "plus" coincide mentally more readily than "acceleration is forcing me backward, thus I should upshift by pulling back".

I think it's so silly that you guys harp on and on about this like there's only one right way to do it...

IF you want a stick, buy one, otherwise, put it in D and motor on.

I whole heartedly agree with clarkma5 and ptcdawg.

Older Chrysler/Dodges had a left/right movement for the up and down. Digest that one.

Few people will use this and I think it will eventually fade away, like vinyl roofs, whitewalls, 3 on the tree, wraparound windshields, hardtops......

"Few people will use this and I think it will eventually fade away, like vinyl roofs, whitewalls, 3 on the tree, wraparound windshields, hardtops...... "

Quite the contrary. This is a logical way to provide manual gear selection on an automatic transmission, regardless of the reason for its use. Whether its just downshifting to get engine braking on a grade, holding gears while towing, or ripping around a race track, manual gear selection is a necessary function for ANY vehicle on the road. This is the best way to do it versus the old "D-5-4-3-2-1" gates.

"manual gear selection is a necessary function for ANY vehicle on the road"

That is really a silly statement, Jay.....it is far from necessary....nice to have once in a while but very far from necessary.

I have Autostick on my Stratus and find myself using it to upshift into 4th gear to get better MPG when cruising. (in D my 41TE does not upshift into fourth until 36 MPH...and does not come out of fourth until about 18 MPH so I drop it into Autostick and upshift into fourth when putting along around 28 or so in traffic. It does not lug the engine and even in Autostick it will downshift when floored.) But it is really silly most of the time.......like the above posters said.......just put it in "D" and drive.

Talk about a non-issue. Just use the paddle shifters. That way your hands never leave the wheel.

Besides, I'm not sure how it's intuitive for a manumatic to match the 1-2 shift pattern of a normal MT but not intuitive when it matches the 2-3 pattern. ?

Plain old regular automatics with other positions on them (like "3", "2", etc) work
fine if you want to hold a gear for towing. No need for a fast shift and the idea of holding a gear is to not shift rather than shift more.

Not sure why anyone would rip around a racetrack in an automatic car (guess you have to put up with what you got).

plain old fashion auto with O/D on-off switch will work for me like what firstwagon said.
(P R N D 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 <-- for the new 8 speed auto! LOL)

or just paddle shift with a rotary selector on the console for P R N D

Ok. This argument over what is "right" pops up every few months on edmunds.com. First off, the vast majority of driving Americans have never used a sequential automatic, so that argument is moot. Second, nobody thinks about moving the shifter in the direction of one's momentum, unless they have sat around for hours trying to think of ways to justify a (-) forward (+) backward setup, so that point is moot. Third, only in backwards land (or when calculating the direction of current) is it "intuitive" for forward to be negative and backward to be positive, so that argument is moot.

Additionally, since I've already touched on the intuitiveness of forward being positive and backward being negative, think of how a traditional automatic PRND is set up. If the setup allows you to select low gears (PRND321) think which way you have to move the shifter to downshift.

I know that Bmw and Mazda use the same manual shift orientation maybe its because these are sporty cars and downshifts make the car go faster and its easier to push than pull

"Additionally, since I've already touched on the intuitiveness of forward being positive and backward being negative, think of how a traditional automatic PRND is set up. If the setup allows you to select low gears (PRND321) think which way you have to move the shifter to downshift"

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agree, just wish I could have put it in that perspective the last time around.

My only real experience is with arcade cabinets, where pushing down upshifts and pushing up downshifts, so I'd rather have cars use the same orientation (which would translate to the EVO's in a horizontal surface).

Still, buying sticks until they stop making them anyway.

This pointless argument continues. There is NO RIGHT or WRONG way when the reference point is a standard manual transmission. In a 5 speed manual, when accelerating, you are pushing the shifter up in 3rd and 5th gears, and pulling the shifter back when downshifting to 4th and 2nd gear. In a really thight corner, in most manual transmission cars, you pull back and shift into second, and push up to third when comming out of a corner, so by that logic, the Outlander is the correct pattern and the Lancer is backwards!

those of us who care to use the feature, like it to be -/+ and those who could care less and would rather put it in D seem to think +/- is fine. this is a non-issue for those who don't care... but to those of us who DO CARE, it is an issue.

to argue intuitiveness, you do not push straight up to change up a gear... you push up and to the right. you do however pull straight down to go up a gear. the muscle memory is already built in if you have driven a stick. if it were angled like a 2-3 shift, then i can probably get with it... although the natural force exerted on you during accel and decel still make the straight -/+ more intuitive.

then again on certain cars this should not be on the car at all. (like this) my parents occasionally trigger the manual mode and don't know how to get out of it on their cars.

I think Clarkma5 has a good line of reasoning here.

"That is really a silly statement, Jay.....it is far from necessary....nice to have once in a while but very far from necessary."

When I'm towing my parents' boat and all I'm left with is Ford's dumbass "L" gear, the only way I can effectively control speed on a long downhill stretch near their house is by riding the brakes. "L" is irritatingly worthless. So yes, it is necessary to be able to choose what gear I need to be in to safely manage a trailer in hilly, winding terrain. There is no difference between a "+/-" gate and D-5-4-3-2-1 except the latter is no longer necessary with better electronic controls. The +/- gear selection is easier and gives you control over the vehicle YOU are driving, for whatever reason you might need it for. Like driving with snow chains. Or in the mountains. Or starting off up a slippery hill. Or pre-selecting a downshift I know I'll need to make to merge on an extremely short freeway on-ramp.

I don't know why people get bent out of shape over manual gear selection with an automatic transmission. Every car should have it, and actually almost every car WILL have it before long.

ehhh who cares, to me is a novelty in a family car, SUV or Van. People use it first few times then forget about it.

+1 bimmerjay

That's EXACTLY the reason such things are necessary, and I'm glad someone finally took the time to explain it properly.

Yet again all of you guys are WRONG. It is far more intuitive to press "UP" for upshifts and to pull "DOWN" for downshifts. Why? Because that is what the words mean! Jeez, how long are you journo "experts" gonna take to get that?????????

I disagree with this article absolutely 100% to the point if I were between two cars and one had the transmission the way you are complaining about here and the other didn't, I would buy there car where pushing the lever forward moves to the next gear. I hate my wife's Mazda 3 not because it has more road noise than a tank, but because it's transmission is BACKWARDS.

"I don't know why people get bent out of shape over manual gear selection with an automatic transmission. Every car should have it, and actually almost every car WILL have it before long."

I am not bent out of shape at all.....I just dont agree with you, Jay. Like I said, some times it is nice to have. Fords system does need a "2" or "3" like my 05 Mustang had I agree. But having a trans that one can up and downshift like Autostick is just not needed by the vast majority of folks.

I use the automanual function on our cars about 70-80% of the time. I still miss my manuals and until my lease is up on my current car, I'll continue to use it. The automatics can't be trusted to shift correctly.

FWIW, yes Mazda and BMW get it right with + is down. Our Audi's DSG has it backward - forward is up. Drives me nuts but it's better than waiting for Audi's horrible gear logic to find the right gear.

"The automatics can't be trusted to shift correctly."

HUH???

You have to be kidding. No wonder you get so many tickets.....you are too busy messing around with the car. Just put it in Drive and DRIVE. Try to be more trusting. :)

@blueguydotcom

Trust the automatic its not the Terminator so you don't have to worry about trusting a machine. Honest.

"But having a trans that one can up and downshift like Autostick is just not needed by the vast majority of folks."

Maybe not under general driving conditions, but that's like saying you don't need seatbelts because most people don't crash majority of the time. It's there for "fun" in many cases but manual gear selection is also needed for safety as I mentioned - you need to be able to properly control your vehicle in challenging conditions. Such as when you're driving your Sonata 160 MPH.

I use the manual mode on every automatic I ever drive, every day. The ability to control engine braking makes a huge difference in crappy freeway traffic, as well as driving down hills. That's an everyday, real-world application of the system, in to addition to gear control when roads turn fun.

Those that don't use the manual modes say, meh, make it +/-. Those who do use them, and frequently, demand the correct layout of -/+.

-/+

talk about muscle memory fouling things up, once (a long time ago) drove a three speed manual Vega

R 2
1 3

could hardly make it to move forward after stopping at traffic signs/lights.

Well you know what, I use the feature every day and I say the correct orientation is pull back to downshift, since I'm using it to retard forward motion. So who appointed jkavanagh or anyone else arbitrator of all such things? Fact is, the Outlander isn't going to be pulling enough G's to worry about being pulled so far back in the seat that you can't operate it otherwise.

And bodyblue, if you ever drove in mountains, especially while towing, you'd know it's often necessary to downshift to keep from gaining too much speed without frying the brakes. In fact, in your Stratus, the cruise will actually do it for you from 4th to 3rd. But on the really steep stuff, you still have to go lower yourself. And most cars' cruise don't downshift the transmission for you.

I had the same shift pattern as the Outlander in an Audi A3. (http://img373.imageshack.us/i/imagem259xf3.jpg/).

I can understand why VW/Audi designed it as so for usability factors -- easier for the general public that isn't used to driving stick to adapt. But for all the drivers out there used to stick this ought to be quite annoying. But as with anything, there is a learning curve.

Some downshifts are straight up, others are down and to the left, this has nothing to do with muscle memory. There is no performance reason to have a well laid out manumatic, if you have a DSG it will shift faster than you anyway. In towing conditions it doesnt matter as long as it is selectable. If its just a normal slushbox with a switch, leave it alone and stop pretending you drive a fast car.

"...pushing forward for downshifts is an intuitive action as it's done during braking. Similarly, upshifts, which occur during acceleration, should be executed by pulling backwards...."

In the real world, i.e. not a race track, the only thing you'll ever use this feature for is to downshift to pass. In other words, you pull back to speed up.

"...What's more, that's how shifts are oriented in a real sequential transmission..."

What exactly is a "real" sequential transmission? It's all just electronics. It makes no difference at all. It's okay to have your preferences, but there is no right and wrong here. (Except that all flappy paddles are "wrong", and you shoulda' got a "real" stick!)

The Evo has it right. That is all.

+1 bimmerjay

I once was bouncing the tach at the redline in my G37x until I realized that I was trying to downshift by flicking the lever up. I am with IL here.

Even our Sienna has a manual shift - it certainly is more useful than the P.O.S. way we used to be limited to a "PRND2L" or sometimes just an "L." Most Americans don't know how to use the manual shift -- but then they don't know most of the mechanicals on their cars anyway. Having the manual shift benefits those who know to use a lower gear for long downhills, anticipate a pass on a 2-lane road (some of us don't have that much torque to safely wait for the auto to downshift)

There are people who feel passionately about either manumatic orientation. Since it's all a function of software, it should be possible to simply reprogram the shifter to your preferred orientation. Anybody know of anyone who has had this done? I'd look into it myself, but none of my AT vehicles have a manual gate that is "backwards".

Arguing about which orientation is better is like arguing about the color of gym socks. They all stink. You give it the suggestion to shift, it downshifts. Then press on the loud pedal and there's that stupid torque converter lag.

Buy something with a proper manual, and feel the immediate kick in the back. This Outlander would not even be on my list as it doesn't have one.

Arguing about which orientation is better is like arguing about the color of gym socks. They all stink. You give it the suggestion to shift, it downshifts. Then press on the loud pedal and there's that stupid torque converter lag.

Buy something with a proper manual, and feel the immediate kick in the back. This Outlander would not even be on my list as it doesn't have one.

Again, ignore the +/- on the console shifter & use the paddle shifters. That way your hands never leave the wheel. Besides, using the paddle shifters becomes more natural and second nature very quickly. Downshift to pass? Tug on the left paddle ("-") once or twice. Want engine drag? Two or three quick tugs on "-" and you have it. Done with shifting on your own? Hold in the "+/Off" paddle for a second or so and it returns to Drive.