2009 Dodge Viper SRT-10: You Want to do What?

I absolutely love this car. However, a gentleman once told me that he had to bring his Viper to the shop almost every month for reliability purposes. I hope IL does not share the same fate.

Publish the name of the dealer that no one should every take their car to.

Well done, Mike!

"Publish the name of the dealer that no one should every take their car to."

Mike did. Glenn E. Thomas Dodge

Great story it was Riveting

The fact that the techs at the dealer didn't think about peeling back that panel (which seems logical right?) and wanted to cut a hole in the panel? I think the failboat is about ready to leave port.

Glad it was an easy find and fix. Viva la un-molested Viper (panels)!

Was this the same dealer who wanted to rotate the Viper's tires?

If not, what the heck is up with Dodge dealers in your area?

subytrojan, thanks. I'm blind.

HA! I called that one just from the photo.

Are you serious? This is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Ridiculous #1: cheap rivets on a $91K car...the strut fell off!
Ridiculous #2: "...cut out a section just big enough to fit a hand inside and retrieve the piece."

What? Cut a section out of my car? No. Hire someone with half a brain and they will look at the damn car before deciding to cut it up to replace a strut.

doss1 - I think we should start a pool to bet on how long until the Viper goes down with some issue (like transmission problems).

Since you could obviously reach up behind the hatch frame to reinstall the bracket, instead of rivets I would have used screws and nuts, plus maybe some washers to reinforce the rivet holes, to fasten the bracket back in place. This saves having to have access to a riveting tool and the rivets.

@ pmtguy -- HAHA!! BOOOO!

There not enough face palm to describe this madness.

someone above made a good point... is this the same dealer that wanted to rotate staggered, directional tires?
if so, one would hope you've learned your lesson by now.

Dealer service departments, where loyal customers get turned off. Seriously, cut a hole in the body work?

Unbelievable.

i admit i have a lot of stereotypes about the chrysler family of autos and dealers....but the more i read about your experiences with the cars and their dealers....they are less and less stereotypes.....more and more factual.

good stuff.

Tech Advisor was let go from BP.

Now that makes me wanna run out and by a Dodge! If this happens on their $91k car, image the mess you'd have with the other models.

that should solve some of the rattles and other mystery noises, time for another long road trip!

throwback is dead on. Dealer service experiences have a LOT to do with repeat business. Some dealers get it, but far too many don't.

If you're not bright enough to fix something, don't propose absurd solutions. A dealer near me couldn't fix my car under warranty. They flat out told me that they couldn't figure it out. They recommended another dealer where they had a high opinion of their service department. Talk about honest! The second dealer fixed my car. I bought my next car at the first dealer.

famof3kids says:

08:51 AM, 06/24/10

Now that makes me wanna run out and by a Dodge! If this happens on their $91k car, image the mess you'd have with the other models.

.......by the way...hows that challenger sale going here at IL? hahahaha.

And I'm crazy for buying more imported cars than domestic? HA!

I love the comments, its as if the transmission broke and took 22 days to fix....wait thats a different car

Yeah, I would suggest finding a new place to service your Viper.

Imagine if some owner actually listened to that guy's advice and had some shop cut up his not-so-cheap car! Insane...

Does Dodge actually make the Viper, or do they shop it out? Rivets?

It took them TWO AND A HALF HOURS to (a) discover that the bracket was missing and (b) come up with a "best solution" to cut a hole in the car?

It took them TWO AND A HALF HOURS to (a) discover that the bracket was missing and (b) come up with a "best solution" to cut a hole in the car?

.......................Two hours of coffee break...@ $120/hr labor......30 minutes to come up with a story basically summarizing "we are lazy, go somewhere else"

Crack is whack.

inlinesix, you take a story about a single Dodge dealer and expand that to all domestics? You do realize that there are other dealers and other manufacturers? They're not all one company.

The Honda dealer near me is full of @ssholes. Should I conclude that all import dealers are @ssholes? Maybe. I've found that Honda, Toyota, and even Nissan dealers tend to be more arrogant than others.

It took them TWO AND A HALF HOURS to (a) discover that the bracket was missing and (b) come up with a "best solution" to cut a hole in the car?

.......................Two hours of coffee break...@ $120/hr labor......30 minutes to come up with a story basically summarizing "we are lazy, go somewhere else"

Wow, I can only hope that they are better at working on mass consumed dodge products. Still doesn't isntill confidence in their service department. Makes me assume they cannot follow a tech manual, as I really doubt that somewhere in a tech manual it omits that panel and says to cut a whole in the bodywork.

Or consider this:

Service technicians anymore are used to scanning TSB's, replacing modules, reflashing computers or replacing radios/steering pumps/ac compressors and such. Old school diagnostics are really lost on the new generation of service techs.

What happened I'm sure is that the tech saw it, tried to fish it out with a long tool, had parts and service pull up schematics to find out how to get in there, had the service advisor get on the phone to technical assistance at Chrysler to get thier input/authorization. Was on hold for 45 minutes. Had a couple other people come out to see what could be done with panels, floor boards, magnets, string and such before they gave up.

25 minutes worth of paperwork was filed and the keys/car/paperwork were brought up front.

I own a dealership and unfortunately this thing can happen. Fortunately, I have 80% of my techs have 30 years each and I have a couple newer guys. Together, we don't let this thing happen.

Beating up a dealer b/c of this scenario or a fairly green service advisor recommending a tire rotation based on mileage isn't fair. Every dealership that has more than 20 employees is guilty of the same thing, from Audi to Volkswagon. My inlaws had a brake job done on a newer A6. The tech didn't bleed the brakes. The pulled out of the shop and rear ended a guy at the light at 40 mph. totalled the car.

stuff happens.

"Beating up a dealer b/c of this scenario or a fairly green service advisor recommending a tire rotation based on mileage isn't fair. "

I have to disagree; the proposed "solution" is so ludicrous that any tech with 1/3 of a functioning brain wouldn't even consider it. Yes, some dealers are atrocious, but not all. The BMW, Jeep, and Mazda dealers I use are all excellent. Ditto for my Triumph bike dealer. No dealer is perfect, but a service department that advises that you hack a fist-sized hole in a $91K limited production sports car to retrieve a rivet is light-years beyond moronic.

"stuff happens"???

wow, way to rationalize incompetence. there are so many flaws in your logic I can't even figure out where to begin...

to quote the simpsons......"8 X 7 = low battery?" when using a calculator to solve a math problem.

Since they couldnt run a computer diagnosis on this particular problem....you are probably right...they were clueless as how to construct a solution not given to them by a manual or computer screen.

@ ninjin and zcalvert:
Nope, this is not the same dealer that offered a tire rotation. Nor was it the dealer that asked if our Viper had staggered width tires. Draw your own conclusions there.

We were actually referred to this dealer by a reputable source. But it wasn't until after this visit that our source specified WHICH advisor to use. The optimist in me would (cautiously) give this dealer another shot. We will never use that advisor again, however.

- Mike

Duh. Why peel-off a perfectly good panel when you could have them hoist the Viper upside-down and shake it until the bracket fell to the ground?

wow, then you guys aren't batting a very good percentage with LA dealers.

Clearly Chrysler's products have been improving lately; hopefully their dealers can keep up.

I imagine Chrysler's PR goons can't be very pleased about this if they're following this LT test.

I agree with Mike. I've found it isn't so much about the dealer, as it is the individual service advisor that you can develop a relationship and trust in.

Or, you can just do the work yourself. Which is what I do, whenever possible. I see you guys came to that conclusion as well.

It's amazing how much money you can save by just having a little car knowledge. Mechanics and dealerships really rip people off that don't have any car sense at all.

@inlinesix

When it comes to dealers, I don't think there's a huge difference between import and domestic. Some of the best dealers I've seen have been domestic brands, and some of the worst have been import brands. Truth be told, the majority of dealerships as a whole seem to be pretty bad and don't know how to put themselves in their customers' shoes (e.g., "stuff happens"). That's the reason I'll go out of my way to support the good ones out there.

colorado1974 : "Together, we don't let this thing happen. "

That's the way a shop should be run. Unfortunately, pay schedules and union contracts make this difficult. If a job looks like it's going to go over, technicians are disincented to work on it. The service manager isn't incented to pull a tech (or several) off another job to help out. Sending a customer away doesn't look any more negative on the books than spending too much time on a job (returns are another story).

A dealer near me as a goofball that they somehow incent to solve the odd ones. It's fun to watch him work. I've seen him spread a car across three stalls and have even seem him construct a custom sprinkler system to find a cabin leak. The dealer probably makes no money on his jobs, but they make up for it in repeat business. And, inlinesix, this is a domestic dealer.

zcalvert: That's because you have ZERO experience running a dealership, shop or auto business. That scenario isn't any more common in a domestic dealership than it is in an import dealership. Dealerships rely on people. When you rely on people, you are exposing yourself to both the genius of thier minds, but also the idiocy as well.

Even the best techs have faults from time to time. Even the simpliest problems can elude the brightest problem solver. To turn that around, do you know how many people have come back because the A/C in the car didn't work? Dozens. The fix? Push the little snowflake button. One would believe that in the most technologically advanced civilization that a person could deduce that the snowflake meant air conditioning. I'm not talking about your typical villiage idiot either. Doctors/Lwyers and such are guilty of it too.

Easy fix for this lost stud plate, that your dealer overlooked.
Step 1- Go to Sams Club and get a large quantity of liquid nacho cheese dip.
Step 2- Heat up cheese
Step 3- Pour melted cheese into lost stud hole
Step 4- Leave car parked outside on chilly evening so that cheese cools and adheres to stud grooves
Step 5- Leave car parked outside on hot afternoon so that cheese melts
Step 6- Attach car to rotisserie and spin so that melted cheese will pour out of lost stud hole
Step 7- Be careful not to let hot cheese burn your feet, genius
Step 8- Get a baby mouse
Step 9- Insert baby mouse into lost stud hole
Step 10- Mouse will proceed to eat any remaining cheese, including hopefully swallowing the stud that will have cheese embedded in its grooves along with attached plate
Step 11- Insert snake into lost stud hole
Step 12- Place entire car in a bucket with sides high enough so that snake cannot get out
Step 13- Wait for snake to exit car
Step 14- Tuck pants into socks, genius
Step 15- Search bucket for snake
Step 16- Extract mouse from snake
Step 17- Extract stud plate from mouse
Step 18- Bill customer as not covered by warranty

Oh, I almost forgot...

Step 19- Remind customer that they may be getting a customer satisfaction survey from Dodge for the service visit.

Wow. I mean Wow. What a sad, sad story.

brn says:

"inlinesix, you take a story about a single Dodge dealer and expand that to all domestics? You do realize that there are other dealers and other manufacturers? They're not all one company.

The Honda dealer near me is full of @ssholes. Should I conclude that all import dealers are @ssholes? Maybe. I've found that Honda, Toyota, and even Nissan dealers tend to be more arrogant than others."

They aren't all one company!!! NO WAY!

I was referring to VEHICLE quality. Way to go. The point is to skip having a car fixed for failed components in a short amount of time. Especially things like transmissions (Camaro) and a strut mount on a 2009 Viper!!! If the car doesn't break why do I give a damn if the dealer is full of assholes. Actually, like you, I have seen more dumbsh^% at import dealers...still not the point smart guy.

Why Chrysler/Dodge is failing! Large market + bad dealers = FAIL

By the way, the repair job looks clean.

@ fundango

I agree about supporting good dealerships. I was referring to the quality of the vehicles. My best dealer experience is actually from Ford.

Whomever said that this is a typical domestic problem must be smoking something. I have seen more crap come out of Honda and Toyota dealers service departments than domestics all put together. As for transmissions, Honda takes the cake on that one. Two transmissions before the 20k mile mark on a new Odyssey. And that only has 240hp, not 600! Domestic dealerships, while not perfect, are WAY better than imports. Call the Chrysler customer hotline and report this. I have gotten no where with the zone office for Honda though. All I get is the standard response when I report my Honda dealership goof ups. "Each Honda dealer is owned and operated independantly". Yeah, that always helps the problem.

The Viper's drivetrain is bulletproof, which is obviously important in a car that is frequently tracked, but with this car being sold in such limited quantities, it has the build quality of a hand built kit car, which is kind of what it is.

Kudos! What a bunch of friggin' idiots. Cut a hole! Well done sir.

Most dealer techs are just glorified tire knockers and oil changers; only one or two are capable of much more and they cost the dealer more to keep around. Moreover, very few have ever made the decision "an Ivy League school, or working on cars for a living? I'll have to think about it."

Going to an independent shop, you're at least likely to find a guy who is capable enough to make it on his own without needing a dealer to supply him with a captive audience. I wonder if the dealer's body shop guys would've realized how to do this bracket re-install before they broke out the cutting equipment?

I'm kind of surprised at the comments here. Rivets do in fact fail occasionally. Every automaker uses them to attach certain non-critical components. The failure rate is low enough to make their use practical and cost-efficient, especially when combining dissimilar materials into a structure. This car has bodywork made of fiberglass composite, and a strut bracket made of steel. It's also a structure that receives considerable stress from the strut itself when the hatch reaches the limit of the strut's travel. The body actually flexes a little at this attachment area, which can loosen any pop-rivet It is not proof that Dodge made a bad design or used substandard materials or assembly.

As for the service department at this dealership...sheesh. They should have referred the customer to their body shop the moment they saw the bracket had detached and gone "missing". The body shop techs would probably have taken all of two minutes to solve the problem without cutting into a single panel, and would likely have effected the repair quickly and competently.

Ugh... american cars.