2009 Dodge Challenger R/T: Let the 2nd Guessing Begin

So whichever one of us hits the right price gets..? I said 28k by way, and was very respectful. I'll try to be more vitriolic. (love that word)

I will take it off your hands if you're interested in three bags of VINTAGE army men

I say ask as much as you can, you can always go down from there. I sold my '03 Hemi 2500 4x4 Dodge Ram in '06 to buy my Jeep and the dealer wanted to give me 15k for trade, I put it on Ebay and sold it in less than a week for $27,500 to a guy in Washington.

@wrinklebump: Come on man, you've GOT to be kidding -- wait, did you say "vintage"?!!

;)

@jeep,

How was the ebay experience? I'm leaving the country for a year or so and can't seem to unload my truck for a reasonable price on craigslist. Thinking about ebay motors, but I don't know, people are sketchy, naw mean?

@wrinklebump

I've been lucky, I sold the truck and a '95 Corvette a few years ago and they both went smooth, although I have heard horror stories. You can usually weed out the scams, I had offers for Diamonds for the truck.

I just read an article about how people are influenced by anchor numbers. Basically, just having any number will influence people's decisions on what something is worth. So if the TMV said it's worth $40,000, I would be less likely to think one priced at $29,000 is overpriced, I might even think it's a deal regardless of how rediculous I thought the $40k number is.

I've got to come to TMV's defense on this one. I have fun playing with it, and it seems to reflect what I find playing on ebay too.

29.9 Seems like a good price to me. A local quick check of the for sale section shows that RTs are selling for low 30s

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/1770282171.html

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/ctd/1769984710.html

Wow we really stirred them up this time.

I find it sad that commentators here can't grasp what a economic statistic signifies. Firstwagon's comment noted in this entry truly baffles me, and we often see eye-to-eye on other topics. Yes, a used car is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, but TMV calculates the average amount people are willing to pay for used cars. Where's the conflict? Like just about any other economic figure, it

I find it sad that commentators here can't grasp what a economic statistic signifies. Firstwagon's comment noted in this entry truly baffles me, and we often see eye-to-eye on other topics. Yes, a used car is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it, but TMV calculates the average amount people are willing to pay for used cars. Where's the conflict? Like just about any other economic figure, it reflects a large population and your specific situation may vary, and in fact may be a complete outlier.

I'll apologize if you guys hit 27 or above. In my experience buying about 7 cars in the past 7 years and selling 4 of them in so cal, I've pretty much never seen TMV right or even within 1k of what I've bought or sold anything for (this doesn't count non-family members I've helped buy). Not to mention TMV is a bad precedent- I actually see people aiming for TMV in forums. You're teaching consumers to aim for average! What the heck is that about? If the TMV really represents an average for a given area you'd think you'd give buyers tips on how to get $500-1000 below that.

We'll see. Admittedly, the Edge's sale was eye widening.

And I stand by the dead company thing. Dodge, like the rest of Mopar, is moribund.

And you're trying to sell a retro wannabe muscle car in socal with a manual. This might help you as a handful of buyers might really want this configuration. I had a guy fly into SD from SF for my 2006 330i and a guy drove up from Ventura for my Cooper S so it's possible a few very picky buyers would want a car like yours. We'll see. The manual could be your ticket to a better price (it usually helps me when selling my used cars) as an enthusiast may want the car more than a lot-dwelling version with an automatic.

Where can I find the for sale posting for this car? Is there a link on this site?
I will miss the long term test review of this car.

Anybody ask you for a CarFax, yet? ;)

Well hold on now. The Challenger is an attractive, badass car. $30k for this particular vehicle seems about right.

"retro wannabe muscle car"

Since when is the Challenger under question to be:

A: retro

B: wannabe muscle car

I believe it fills both those categories just fine. Wake up.

Nice rational response by IL. I don't know the methodology but I understand it's based on real transaction prices, thus while everyone one else was throwing around anecdotes and true-isms (it's worth what someone is willing to pay) IL brings data.

Now for my own anecdote. In my experience semi niche cars seem to hold their value reasonably well. While there is not a mass market for big muscle coupes, there are also not that many on the road. The Dodge dealers near me seldom have more than one if any on the lot and are sticker-ed well into the high 30's when I've seen them (assuming it just an RT). I'll say they can get within $1500 of TMV which to me puts it within negotiating margin of error (updated for increased mileage over time).

If we consider that MOPAR has a distinct buying demographic with the other article on Gibson guitars, it would make me argue for Dodge doing well going forward(and I've generally hated most Dodge offerings). They have a distinct masculine brand with the Charger, Challenger, and Trucks which while serving different purposes appeal to the same demographic (in the way VWs and Audis also do). It won't be a big brand, but I bet it will continue forward.

"From this comment I'm led to believe that we should list our cars for sale and invite people to make offers based on what they want to write checks for"

Isn't that how ebay does it? They are quite a success story.

In fairness I may not done enough research into how you calculate your TMV number. I have seen a number of these over the years (along with red and black books) that had little bearing on reality so I automatically take a dim view of them. The prices of used cars varies all the time with seasons, the price of gas, whims of fashion, news storys, etc. Past performance may not be repeated. Specialty cars are the hardest to predict. It would take a great deal of time and effort and updating to stay up to date. Hopefully yours is a good as you say.

I've known a number of people that listed a car based on a number they read somewhere and then have a long and frustrating experience as no one will offer their price.

I think its the right value for the car... but I personally find it hard to drop 29k for something when everything I want can be ordered with zero miles for 4-5 thousand more... and then you know its experienced no hard driving, etc. I think it'll sell for 27k. Which in my eyes would be the acceptable trade off for cost savings from new vs mileage and the maintenance record. Just my 0.02.... seeing that I bought a 2010 in part from these reviews I will be very sad to see it go!

Thank you Edmunds!

"Moving now to the more vitriolic comments we have this opinion from blueguydotcom: "25-26k. Dead company, car has a limited amount of appeal and TMV is pretty much always wrong." Did I miss something? Has Dodge been eliminated?"

2nd with this comment. Dodge is still around? Asking for government bailouts 2 times in my life time (Im only 31) is the definition of bankrupt. The germans couldnt even turn this pile around, now the bankrupt italians are going to come in and show america how its done? good luck with your fiat challenger.

This is how a TMV calculator should work in the real world for 1 year old cars ( all numbers are % of value from new MSRP price):

Honda: 80%
Toyota 80%
BMW 80%
Nissan 78%
Mazda 78%
Audi 78%
Mercedes 75%
VW (German made 80%, Mexico 75%)
Ford 75%
GM 68%
Chrysler/Fiat 65%

So if you paid $38k new for that pile of crap challenger....$26k is your TMV based on my new formula for car values. Knowin its only going to be work about 22K once the 2011s come out...I think $26K is overvalued...but hey, you still got 2 months.

toastblows

Care to share why you think "that pile of crap challenger" is a valid description?

Another good question is why do you say the Italians are bankrupt? They are doing very well and Fiats are considered one of the most popular cars in Europe these days.

If you were a little older (and wiser) you'd know Dodge was doing quite well in the late 90's before the "germans" showed up.

Back to the present Chrysler now has available to it a collection of very cool proven cars with style and character that the Germans, Japanese and Koreans will be hard pressed to match. There is a real opportunity here to gain something very special, cars that we would have never had access to if this merger didn't happen.

Sure it could go wrong and fall apart. Big companies are not known for having wisdom and flexibilty to change when change is needed but I am optimistic.

BTW Your numbers showing % of resale are based on people paying MSRP. Nobody buying domestic pays retail so that amount of money they lose is likely the same as if they bought imports and paid more in the 1st place.

1. The italians are about 3 steps behind the greeks, portugese, and spanards from defaulting on their own debt. Fiat might not be bankrupt, but the country is classic chrysler...looking for handouts.

2. They were doing well in the 90s because people wanted overpriced trucks and suvs....gas was always going to be $1/gal...and housing was always going to go up 20% a year. we see how that all worked out. Go down my list in order...and then look around at cars still on the road and functioning reliably. If i want to browse the under $1000 bin on craigslist...1999 dodge neons o plenty. 1999 Civic, Corolla, 323i? nope.

3. cool collection of cars....Viper and????

4. see post 1. gas was always going to be $1/gal and housing was always going to go up 20% a year....lets keep ramming...no pun intended...$40k 13mpg vehicles down americas windhole and we can all golden parachute before the housing ATM bursts....therefore making our vehicles unaffordable for our main demographics...working chumps. Hey chumps, thanks for the bail out too, I always wanted gold fixtures on my yacht.

5. i dont know anyone who pays msrp period. but lets stroll down the lane of american vs import. once upon a time my household had a honda civic and an oldsmobile alero.

1999 honda civic purchased with 45k miles in 2003 for $9500.
2000 olds alero purchased with 30k miles in 2003 for $8600.

Sold civic in 2005 for $6900 with 75k miles
Sold alero in 2006 for $3500 with 70k miles.

You can see at sale the age of the cars was the same. the honda had more miles, and was less expensive out of the factory.

You may think the challenger is great. I respect that, it shows passion. I disagree. $38k for a car that will be $18k in 3 years, made by a company that failed 2 times in 26 years doesnt float my boat.