2009 Mini E: L.A. to the O.C. Is Not Easy

Have you run it all the way down to see if 0 is really 0?

This is the problem with full electrics. Unless there is enough infrastructure for these cars, they become very impractical. Defeating the whole purpose of being a DD.

I'm with lightning on this one, seems to me that the constant worry about getting stranded doesn't let the pros outweigh the cons. Then again if you live in an urban setting and don't venture more than maybe 20 miles a day it could be a little less hectic. Suppose it's all in what you intend to use it for. Road-tripping certainly shouldn't be one of them though!

So how does the public charging station work? Is there a credit card system on the charger? Do you buy credits somewhere?

I'd laugh my butt off if another Mini-E driver had left you a nasty note when you got back to the charging station. :)

How are the A/C and heat in the Mini E? Are they as effective as the systems in a standard Mini? Also, if 100-mile ideal/city range = 60-70 mile highway range, how much does A/C further reduce the highway range? I'm considering a Leaf but with a 54 mile daily round trip commute and likely no charging at work, that may be pushing it with A/C or heat.

mcgs999: Zero is not zero. You can go 15 to 20 miles once you hit zero and the charge meter, I've been there many times.

lightning73: You might be right and a car with 100 -120 mile range isn't for you. Reading some of the LTRT blog posts sometimes make me ask "Are we driving the same car?" But then I remember how I felt the first few weeks driving it. Yeah, I was gripping the steering wheel tight and looking down at the range meter every few minutes too, but then something changed. Once I realized the car will go 100 miles in just about any driving condition, I stopped stressing and stopped looking at the range meter. I have no doubt whatsoever that if Ed started at 100% he could have made the 100 mile trip without the need to recharge while he was there. I still would have anyway if the charger was available, but as long as he kept his speed at 70 or less, he would have had no problem. The charge meter is mostly accurate, however when you are driving 70 mph, it drops quicker than it really should so I see how Ed would have been worried. If he would have let the car sit for a minute or two once he got off the highway, he would have seen the meter go up 5 or 10%.

I want to make sure everyone remembers that this is a prototype test car and is not or will not ever be for sale. BMW is finding out things like the need for a more accurate charge meter, thermal management system, etc from this program. When their Mega City car goes on sale in 2013 it will have a real world range of over 150 miles, and address all the issues that this test vehicle helped to uncover.

Tom M
MINI-E #250 @ 29,700
http://minie250.blogspot.com/

txmatt1:

the A/C use has a minimal impact on the range, maybe 5-8 miles per charge. The heater use is much more, probably 15% to even 20% if it is really cold and you have it on high all the time with defrosters also.
The MINI has a bigger battery than the LEAF and had a greater range. I can usually get 100 -120 miles of city driving, 90 -100 all highway (under 70mph). In the winter when it was 10 -20 degrees, and I had the heater on all the time and driving at highway speeds I was averaging around 80 miles per charge.
I would expect the LEAF's numbers to be slightly less than that. The LEAF does weigh less and is much more aerodynamic so that should help but the battery is 24kwh compared to the MINI'S 35kwh so there is much less energy storage there.
Nissan claims their battery composition is better and will perform better in colder climates, but that's yet to be seen.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a LEAF unless I could live with and 80 mile range. I think they will come short of the 100 mile estimate they claim but I'm just guessing.

As long as there is another vehicle for long trips, I find this car a great solution for my daily commute to work!

tomm250, are you planning on buying the Leaf or will you wait for the BMW megacity? I am asking because I find your comments very insightful and you obviously like the Mini. Also would you buy the Mini if BMW allowed it?

Thanks

It's not for everyone, that's for sure...but I still say it's a cool little car.

funny picture idea.

paint a giant urinal on the wall in front of the parking spot.

banhugh +1

Depending on how much insurance and plates cost for the EV I think I could justify having it as a 2nd DD and I can keep my truck for when I move or when I need more power.

Thanks tomm250. Your experiences are very helpful. I could do with 80 miles from the LEAF. I need 60 true highway miles with A/C (Texas summers) or heat. It'd be an even better car for my wife and her shorter city commute if I could convince her. It's her car we need to replace first anyway.

Throwback:
I do like the LEAF. I won't say I love it, but I do like it a lot. I'm watching the progress closely and need more info on the real world range before I decide. What really interests me is that Nissan in claiming the 2nd generation LEAF will have a 200 mile range. If so, I think they will sell more of them than they can make.
People need to warm up to EV's, I get that. I wish I had a dollar for everyone that said I'd never buy one of those stupid things. They're different, very different and people are generally reluctant to change. There is comfort in 300 miles of range and a gas station on every corner. However I think once people start seeing them in their neighbors driveway and parking next to them at work, they will start looking less different. I wasn't sure I'd like the car at all. I certainly didn't think I could use it every day and drive it 32,000 miles in a year like I have been. I realize there are very few days that 100 miles wouldn't be more than enough and I drive way more than most people do. You leave home every day with a "full tank" which is different than how you live with gasoline so you spend much more time with over 50% charge left than you do with less than 50% left. Once you get over the initial anxiety of looking at your meter all the time (takes a couple weeks) then you really don't think about it much because you know you're going to make your destination.
As for the future, I'm going to have this car for one more year. That will end June 2011. In June 2011 BMW is starting a new lease program with a car called the ActiveE. This car will have all the components that will be used in the 2013 Mega City car. I expect to be asked by BMW to drive the ActiveE for testing. That car is much more polished that the MINI-E is. It has a sophisticated thermal management system (unlike the MINI or the LEAF) so outside temperatures will have little effect on the range and the car can be basically controlled by a smartphone.
Would I buy the MINI-E? As much as I love it now, the future EV's look to be so much better so unless MINI "rewarded" me for all I've done for the program and offered it to me for a really good price I'd probably pass and wait for the Mega City. Everything I read about it is fantastic plus it seats five and will go an estimated 160 miles per charge.

Throwback:

Here's an Edmund's video on the BMW ActiveE. There will be approximately 700 of these doployed around the world starting next June. I'm expecting to have one of them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5mlkmtVWRc

tomm250:

Have you read the newest edition of Popular Mechanics? They did a sort of future look at ownership with millions of ev cars. It is a piece of fiction, showing one potential future regarding brownouts and smart grids. You should read it and give your perspective as someone who actually is dealing with all the issues raised in the article.

As someone who is very interested in the Chevy Volt, I was surprised to see that runninig the heater uses more energy than the A/C. Is that due to the small size of the Mini? Thank you for all the information provided.

Two Comments:

1) I think that a great business to be in when these types of cars go into volume production will be a tow truck operator. Until charging technology improves, once these things run out of electrons they are going to die on the side of the road. No running to the closest gas station and borrowing a little red gas can or calling AAA for road assistance. For the foreseeable future the answer be getting towed to the closest electrical outlet (hopefully 220 volts) for a few hours of charge time. People will be running out of energy all over the place and getting stuck miles from home (or the shopping center).

2) I keep harping on this - where are the road taxes going to come from. Today, your gallon of gas has a significant tax built into the per gallon price. Unless we start paying for road use by the mile (with data collected by the state) or get a smart grid power system that is intelligent enough to know that you are charging your car and not running your big screen TV, we will have a significant tax shortage for infrastructure repair and road expansion. Higher mileage dino-fuel cars are already having an impact on tax revenue. Of course, state and federal governments will just raise the tax rate.... but that is another issue.

I just had an idea about electric cars that nobody will care about but I'll say anyway!

What if all the electric cars had the same size and shape batter, like all HP laptops or whatever do. Then you could just go into a station, and swap the battery. That would be so much easier. It's like we do with propane tanks now. Pay a fee for a new charge and then you get the new battery. I think that it would be a good idea, but that's just me.

aurakr: I have been meaning to get the rag, someone else told be about it. I definitely will.

jasper53: I don't think many people will be running out of charge. Once you get familiar with the car you know what it can do. There are about 500 of these cars on the road for a year now. I have only heard of one person running out and he was three doors down from his house when he did. I think many people that don't have an EV think it will happen all the time, but talk to people that actually have one and they will tell you they doubt that they will ever run out and get stranded.

isend2c: Don't sell your idea short. It is the entire business plan of one company called Better Place. They already have hundreds of millions of dollars behind the company and at least three countries installing battery swap stations as we speak. Check it out: http://www.betterplace.com/

They need to start selling all those available electric vehicles now. Mitsubishi iMiev, Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt, etc. The more out there, the more charging stations are gonna be built and available for use. I see electric cars ideal for people who do alot of city driving (home to work then back home) These cars will significally reduce greenhouse gases and our dependency for oil .Now for long distance drives/traveling ill take a Hybrid.