2010 Volkswagen GTI: Does It Really Need More Power?

So the question I have then is do you think those handling limits in the twisties would be reached sooner or later than you would reach them in the MS3?

The VW GTI has been absolutely nothing close to a bargain for a long time now, and as such it is unpopular. If Volkswagen adjusted the pricing even 8-10% sales would take off, but when has VW ever done something consumer-friendly?

It's front wheel drive. Honestly even the base Golf has enough horsepower. Beyond that you're just dealing with a bunch of spinning tires every time you step on the throttle or try make a turn. The GTI doesn't need more power.

Have to disagree with the "its FWD so it doesn't need more power" stuff that is bound to start.

I have a FWD vehicle that is putting out 300 hp and over 300 lbs/ft to the wheels. No torque steer, no spinning tires if you are driving it right.

The car doesn't need more power but that is apparently the easy out for automotive writers to find fault with because I've read it pretty much everywhere.

an APR chip sure is fun...

Ed Hellwig, I'm from the department of immigration. Were going to need you to turn in social security card and check your house keys on your way out of the country, as you questioning of the golden rule here in the land of the free (that more horsepower is always better) clearly means you aren't american.

J/K

"mcgs999 says:

11:59 AM, 03/12/10

Have to disagree with the "its FWD so it doesn't need more power" stuff that is bound to start.

I have a FWD vehicle that is putting out 300 hp and over 300 lbs/ft to the wheels. No torque steer, no spinning tires if you are driving it right."

cool story hansel...

by "driving it right" you basically mean not using all the power your engine is producing....

so there basically is no point to having it.

I think the MS3 has higher handling limits than the GTI. Over 60 mph it is no longer close. That is where the GTI shows its shortcomings.

@ Ed....Chipping is really cheap and it IS reliable. In college back in the early 2000s I had a 99 A4 1.8T with a GIAC chip. The chip added 47 wheel hp and around 60 lb-ft of torque by itself with no other modding. It was unreal how much power it was for under $300.00. Well fast forward 10 years and the car is STILL running great with no problems. My youngest brother now drives it- and it's still going strong at 120k miles on the stock turbo. It is indeed something you can "turn-off" on the fly and remap to stock and adds a few other nifty features as well. If you don't need the extra power (which of course comes from remapped fuel curve and more boost), just hit a button and it goes away. It's by far the best $300 mod I've ever put on a car.

For the money, there's a lot of other things that could be improved *cough*tires*cough*

Plus, I'm interested in this car is stock. I mean, if it underpowered from the factory, drive it that way for a while. If thedream is on with his numbers, it would change this car drives pretty significantly.

you dont have to floor it all the time you know... if i didn't live in California with ridiculous emissions standards, i would go for an APR Stage 3. (400hp)

i'm pretty sure if reviewers didn't constantly complain about lack of power and suggest putting an unrefined motor like that of the MS3 in there, none of us would suggest you to chip it.

the suspension idea is pointless, unless you want to make it look pretty... the car handles great as is. it has a little roll to it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't handle well. tires, however, are a good idea. on the track, the limits of stock all season tires are easily surpassed.

don't be fooled into thinking you can floor it from a stop with ESP off and get no wheelspin with better tires though...

Have the squeaks and rattles begun yet? My Mk5 has less than 25K miles, and on certain days the interior sounds like a ten-year old Crown Vic taxi cab. I know the new one is supposed to be even more refined, but I wonder if VW has addressed this.

I have the Continental Contisportcontact 2 tire package on my gti and i still lose traction in 1st gear. but more power is always good! http://giacusa.com/programs.php?mpid=619

What's the point of spending a bunch of money on the suspension if you can't even fully deactivate ESP? You're just going run into ESP at some point anyway. Seems like better tires are probably enough for street driving.

And those better tires would come in handy when you do chip it - and you really should chip it at some point - to get even more power to the ground.

Sure, the GTI is a terrific car right out of the box but it's oh-so-much-better with the extra power provided by something like an APR Stage 1 ECU Upgrade. It's one of those, "I thought it was good until I drove a chipped one and now I want it!"experiences. The extra power doesn't overwhelm the balance at all. In fact, it feels like something the factory would do. Indeed, that's pretty much what VW does with the new R version and what Audi has done for years with the same type of engine.

With a Stage 1 the midrange power is pretty remarkable. I have a DSG and the extra torque really helps at lower speeds since the DSG likes to upshift to a high gear quickly. The extra power is great for filling holes in traffic. And at freeway speeds passing becomes effortless and triple digit speeds happen quickly. It's a real hoot to drive and you look for excuses to go driving because of the increased fun factor.

My opinion: best bang-for-the-buck GTI mod you can do is to chip it. It turns a great car into maybe the best all around practical enthusiast's car in a long time.

i think that the power debate would be solved if VW dropped the 2.0T from the A4 into the GTI.

@jm1212

The engine in the A4 is the same engine in the GTI. Just with a different ECU tune from the factory.

I think you guys should keep it stock. Drive it and maybe towards the end you can chip it. Then you can give your opinion on whether or not a GTI is worth the money as opposed to shelling out some extra cash for the Golf R version.

I say chip it near the end. I drive an RSX Type S and the reflash made the car SO much better. lots more usable power and made driving the car much more pleasant. I imagine it'd be even better on a factory turbocharged car

@diondi

The A4 2.0T has valvelift, not just a different tune

the gti is not underpowered from the factory, the desire to add more is only becuase manufacturers like mazda and cheverolet started this silly hp war. just because vw does not want to play along means nothing, if anything it means they are sticking to their formula and identity as a car maker more so than the others. (and it does NOT make them un-popular prndlol)

as far as the handling limits are concerned, the speed3 and gti share a very similar suspension set up. one is more comfy, one is more sporting. it does not matter if the speed3 puts up better numbers all day, its never going to 'de-throne' the gti as the most stylish and classic car in its class. besides, if the gti does give up to the speed 3, it may have something to do with those ALL SEASONS edmunds got with it. switch out the tires and all here would be suprised how close the numbers would be.

to me, the advantage the ms3 holds in the handling department is not enough to make me want to sacrifice the ride/handling balance the gti has. i have only heard one of these cars be called a 'front wheel drive bmw'...and it was NOT the mazda.

zoomzoom22: where you referring to handling over 60mph? because honestly if you are talking about acceleration, there are a great deal of cars that would own a gti after 60, and those same cars would do it to the speed 3. for that, there is an apr chip. or cobb tuning for speeds. however, if i'm not mistaken, the quickest 50-70mph top gear acceleration tests between the GTI and speed that car and driver conducted held a massive advantage for the gti.....guess having a refined powerband (regardless of the power being made) is better than all out power spikes.

90in55: they must have 'addressed it' right after they made your gti: because my 09 with 30k has not a squeak to be heard.

but then again my 07 rabbit didn't either...maybe your gti just missed the memo?

@prndlol: True the GTi is not a bargain compare to other comparable cars in its class. However, you're wrong about it being unpopular. VW never intended this car to be a volume seller (that's left for the Golf). GTi sales numbers are pretty decent.

My opinion about the chipping is really your preferences of how the demeanor of the car to be. I currently own a 2006 Audi A4 2.0T with the APR Stage 1 done. The added power is nice. Necessary? Probably not since the car was adequately powered already. But the car feels more aggressive in nature with more torque at the lower end. I believe the GTi suspension can handle at least the APR Stage 1, but anything beyond that I would recommend suspension modifications also. My friend has a 06 GTi with no chipping done and driving my car and his own car back to back he also agrees with me. I know it's comparing apples to oranges when I'm comparing my car to his but we solely focusing on what the change in engine power would do for the GTi in terms of performance. So it's really up to how you want your GTi to behave.

Don`t chip it.

I'd prefer to learn how the vehicle holds up in stock (factory) condition. Especially given VWs spotty reliability record. If you chip the car (and increase power) it could result in more drivetrain wear, potentially lowering reliability. I'd also like to see the long term fuel economy (or lack thereof) for the stock, factory car; Having more power on tap will only encourage more heavy-footed driving, skewing results lower.

If you really *have* to spend more money on this car, perhaps an investment in different tires (after the Edmunds team quickly wears out the factory tires) would provide practical, useful information for average drivers. Spending money to chip an already pricey car (with sufficient power) seems like overkill.

yeah chip tune is the best VALUE bang for buck.
but yes it can screw up the balance of the car, my brother has an ABT vs4 mk6, (chipped) and the throttle response is laggy than the standard, something i really dont like. but it will deliver more power in the end.

i think for corners we need balance in engine reesponse. makes the driving more fun and easy to approach the limit.

as for my mk6, i believe its fine at 213hp. (euro). what edmunds say is also right. enough to spin the wheels already. and ill keep my 5yr warranty (for now).

i seriously think a great upgrade are BRAKES. i never liked the brakes on the gti. hard to modulate. anyone know why?

I agree with what others have said, the Germans have no interest in the power war. 200 very meaty horses is adequate for a FWD setup, and if you're not satisfied, buy a few parts from APR.

As cool as the Focus RS may be, it's completely exceeded the limits of the FWD layout. 300 horsepower is ridiculous. Even with the trick differential and the revoknuckles, it still torque-steers all over the place.

/\ good point ampeg. and all that extra r&d that goes into keeping powerful front drivers from taking off into space is probably what does not allow for a nice interior on any of them save the gti.

sorry i meant abt mrk5 vs4.

and yea, i do prefer a comfy interior over uncontrollable 300hp FF. for goodness sakes gimmi an underpowered miata over that overpowered FF.