2010 Honda Insight: A Roadtrip From Three POVs

Caroline, does the Insight have lumbar adjustment to fix that "bulge" pushing in to your back. As for the head rests, they better be active or Honda as no excuse for the devil.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2008/12/2009-ford-flex-limited-headrests-from-hell.html

I've rented a mid-size Nissan Altima that got 33.4 MPG. I'm not sure the extra 3MPG is worth the crappiness of the Insight.

I'm with you, mikeolan. I once got 33 mpg with a 3.8L Oldsmobile Intrigue. Helluva car, btw.

That is pretty disappointing gas mileage... I have a 328i and I manged 35.1mpg over a 160 mile trip once (here is the picture of the gauge cluster: http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7940/gas2c.jpg). I also get 33mpg on my regular trips between Tallahassee and Fort Lauderdale. I would much rather trade 3mpg for a vastly better driving experience.

The Insight does not have lumbar adjustment. To sit comfortably you must tilt the seat more. Also, the headrest are active.

The mpg here is pretty bad, but I imagine the lead foot of the driver is responsible for that. It is anecdotal at best to state a personal mileage figure as a comparison.

Plenty of cars have active headrests that aren't awful (Nissan, Volkswagen, etc.) . Honda being unable to figure it out is their own fault.

So wait, you stuffed your significantly taller brother in the back seat, and then complained about the front seat? Why didn't you go in the back in the first place? Or at the very least switch after realizing you were uncomfortable in the front.

Caroline, this is the 2nd car you have had seat issues with. What's going on?? Good mileage though with 3 people and luggage.

You can't compare someones "road trip" mileage without knowing the driving situation. Obvisouly with a lead foot and 75 mph+ speeds this car is not going to be ideal. When driven 60-65 the insight could easily manage 60+ mpg. This car like most hybrids is really at home at slower speeds with some stop and go mixed in.

Only 36,2 MPG? How fast were you driving exactly? 75-80 mph?

And let me roll my eyes at the people mentioning how "bad" the MPG was by comparing it with what they get with other cars that aren't hybrids. Driving 75 mph instead of 65 mph makes a hell of a lot of difference on the highway, approximately 20% lost efficiency according to studies made by the department of energy, mostly due to air resistance (see www.mpgforspeed.com). If they drove the Insight at speeds closer to 65 mph, they would have probably gotten a bit higher than the highway mpg rating. I know that I keep my car at those speeds and my 32 MPG rated car gets 37-38 on the highway in summer, and about 34 MPG in the winter (in Canada).

Also, note that the #1 advantage of hybrids is in the city, not on the highway, as it recuperates energy generally lost through braking. The Insight gets nearly just as good fuel economy crawling in the city from stop to stop as it does being driven at 70-75 mph on the highway. And with good techniques, it can even do better. Can the Altima, Intrigue, 328i and even the Fit mentioned here do the same?

I agree, BIG difference between 65 &75 mph. You can check it yourself if your car has mpg display. At 65 mph my car gets about 34 mpg on a level road. At 75 mph that drops to 27 mpg.

I'd heard that this vehicle doesn't "electric-only" mode. I may have missed a post on this, but I'd like to hear about how this feels in stop-and-go traffic when the engine kicks on and off repeatedly.

No surprises here. Edmunds team takes a small (2+2) commuter car, piles three people into it, drives 75 MPH for 800 miles, and complains about the experience and low fuel economy. Hybrid haters pile on, claiming they got 100MPG in their 1992 V8 Suburban doing the same thing, in the lap of luxury.

Owners chime in and try to (fruitlessly) tell the team they chose the wrong tool for the job, and that if driven as intended below 75 MPH, the vehicle routinely gets 44+ MPG. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Commute with the commuter, travel with the road car. Hybrids aren't yet evolved enough to be a car for all purposes. Especially if the last car you drove was a $40-$50K gas guzzler.

How about taking the same trip with 2 cars - An Insight and a Versa, Fit or Toyota something. Have the drivers switch at various points. Compare actual performance numbers. That might be interesting. These repetitive, subjective hybrid bashing posts are getting really boring.

A sterling suggestion, mheikka. The catch is this: many of us can only afford one car, so a "car for all purposes" (or at least MOST purposes) is our only option. This is why many hybrids, whose appeal boils down to economy and environmental impact, appear to me to be a pointless exercise compared to the all-around performance of, say, a Golf TDI. A compact hatch with a turbodiesel can easily match the Insight's mpg while providing much better highway cruising ability and even a bit of entertainment value.

@Kchoz : According to the Altima my average speed was 72.5mph. Not to mention, it's a full 3 seconds faster from 0-60, seats four people comfortably, is much quieter, handles better, rides more refined. On the last day driving through Atlanta I still got 30MPG.

And I'm willing to guess the Nissan will last longer, which is better for the environment!

@stephen987 - You're right. For many, the Insight doesn't make sense. Sales numbers confirm it.

That doesn't make the Insight pointless for everyone. In my case the Insight prevailed over over the Jetta TDI (which I really liked) because of several factors - depreciation, tax costs (Insight had 0 sales tax at the time), availability of fuel in my area (less diesel stations), diesel fuel "premium", which can run up to $1.00 when gas prices get high, VW reliability (I suffered through a 2000 Beetle), dealer service competence, maintenance costs (DSG needs $500 service every 40k) and hatchback versus sedan (hatchbacks are more practical.) My TCO for the Insight is well below the TDI, although the TDI would be more fun, practical and useful. Had the TDI Golf/Rabbit existed at the time and been cheaper, I would have bought it.

If you can only afford one car, the Insight is a poor choice unless you are single and do mostly commuting. We have two cars, so the Insight is the clean, frugal commuter. That's all it is. And that's the gist of my comment. It shouldn't be considered a road car, family hauler or SUV replacement. It should be evaluated as such.

mikeolan, I don't know the specifics of how and where you drove that Altima. All I know is, if you had had an Insight or a Prius or whatever, you'd have gotten much better AND the fuel economy wouldn't drop to the low 20s MPG in stop-and-go traffic. I don't have an hybrid, but I do find annoying people who can't admit the good points of hybrids and that they may be *gasp* better in some things than conventional cars.

As to the durability of the Altima versus the hybrids. I've yet to learn of any hybrid being scrapped because of battery failure, and I'm sure some people are on the look out for just an occasion and would never let us forget it if it did occur. The idea that the hybrids will last only a fraction of a lifetime of a conventional vehicle, to my knowledge, has been thoroughly and utterly busted. Hybrids used in taxis have traveled more than 200 000 miles without any problem, not even with the battery packs. Also, as it stands, most cars are scrapped not because they don't work anymore but because their value is now less than the value of its pieces, and hybrids thus far have retained their value extremely well (despite initial claims by some). So it would seem that hybrids will probably outlive that Altima barring accident or catastrophe.

Hybrids do one thing well--stop & go commuting. They suck at most everything else. That's not enough versatility for me.

Not true stephen987.

My '06 Honda Civic Hybrid drives like any normal car for almost any occasion while averaging 42mpg.

Cheers, nf

I'm not a fan of the Insight but in it's defence you have to be pretty uninformed about hybrids to not know they are not designed for high hwy mileage.

Compare any of your "bigger, faster, more whatever cars" with the Insight on the daily grind mileage and it will beat you by a wide margin. I'll bet it could double an Intrique 3.8 or a 328.

@ mheikka : Honda Hybrids have significantly worse reliability than VW products- they are bottom of the barrel reliability wise, and their resale value isn't as good. Sorry to say, you made a mistake figuring out those calculations, especially given the TDI's excellent resale value.

@Kchoz : My fuel economy never dropped into the 20's driving through the city driving the Altima- worst fuel economy was 31MPG. And frankly, nothing in Honda's Insight is better than a regular car- that's not true for the Prius, but Honda's hybrids are definitely garbage. And you'll notice you don't see Honda hybrids used as taxis- because they haven't been able to pass a fleet test without suffering from a transmission, battery, or engine failure. Totally unacceptable, especially given Toyota got it right.

My beef isn't with Hybrids in general- I rented a Prius and got 50MPG without trying- I was quite impressed. With Volkswagen's TDI, fuel cost aside, I've easily gotten 45+ MPG- and I floored the hell out of the TDI because it was so damn fun. (Most cars that fun require premium fuel, so the Diesel fluctuation is a little more bearable.) Honda's hybrids (like GM's hybrids), however, don't make a lick of sense- they have crappy performance, are unreliable, and their mileage isn't worth the price premium over a comparable regular car. And even excusing the anemic drivetrain the Insight is a miserable car.

These things are just going to rot on dealer lots and pile up in landfills. They're worse than SUV's because SUV's were at least good for carpooling and hauling.

I do want to echo the statement on the Intrigue- I used to own one and *averaged* 35-38 MPG on my commute (a mix of stop and go and 80MPH freeway driving) for about the first 3 years I owned it- nothing short of phenomenal given the oomph (though I assume its super-tall 4th gear and slick shape contributed to it.)

Though as the car fell apart its mileage decreased sharply- by the time it hit 80K miles I was lucky to break 25MPG. It's rotting in a dump somewhere, but horrendous quality control aside it was a perfect example that power and efficiency aren't mutually exclusive. Why Honda can't figure that out is beyond me.

mikeolan, a certain consumer's organization that I shall not name (let's call it Client Reviews just for fun) tested many vehicles at different speeds, including the Insight. At 75 mph, the Insight got 36,5 MPG, very similar to what IL got on this road trip. At 65 mph, a Toyota Camry 4-cylinder non-hybrid got 34,9 mpg, similar to what you claim with the Altima... but at that same speed, the Insight got a whooping 44,8 MPG, nearly 10 more MPG than the Camry. That's not a negligible difference. For the record, the Camry got a hair under 30 MPG at 75 mph. It also got above 55 MPG at 55 mph.

So all in all, the Honda hybrids do get much better than normal cars in terms of fuel economy, so you claiming that they don't do anything better is just plain wrong. If you want, head over to fueleconomy.org and check the reported mileage from owners of Insight, the average is near 50 MPG, the lowest is around 40 MPG. This is around 10 MPG more than the equivalent average and lowest reported mileage of the Yaris, and easily 15 MPG more than the Altima.

I'm no Honda fanboy, but I have to recognize the facts, the Honda system does work, maybe not as well as Toyota's, but it does work nonetheless. The fact that Honda's hybrids aren't used in taxi fleets may be more because of the small size of the hybrid vehicles offered by Honda, which are only compacts actually (Civic Hybrid and Insight). The Prius and Camry hybrids are both midsizers, thus much better fitted to be taxis. As to reliability, I haven't heard much on this issue.

Additionally, Honda does not push fleet sales like Toyota does. I believe this is an effort to keep resale values higher. This is why Corolla and Camry rentals are common and their Honda counterparts are not on the rental lot.

Jeeze and I thought there was a lot of vitriol on other threads! The Insight got the mileage it got.....get over it. Could it have got better? I am sure it could have. There was no point to the thread....it was just a simple report on the trip. Does it sound like a good road trip car??? Nope not to me. Would it be a great commuter car around time with some highway driving? Sure thing.

I do want to point out that I in know way believe some of the MPG figures given here.

"When driven 60-65 the insight could easily manage 60+ mpg" Not even close to reality.

"For the record, the Camry got a hair under 30 MPG at 75 mph. It also got above 55 MPG at 55 mph." HUH can you please at least name the date of that test please?

"My fuel economy never dropped into the 20's driving through the city driving the Altima- worst fuel economy was 31MPG" If this is a non hybrid I in no way believe it.....

If the above posters are using the cars computer for MPGs then they need to calculate differently. On board MPG figures are not accurate.....look how many times in this blog the figures are different when compared.

I have a well tuned 98 Stratus 2.5 MMC V6 with 125K and new tires. I drive 40 miles round trip to work with 30 of that at 60-65 MPH and I get around 30 MPG. In town I get around 22 and steady 55 the best I have got was 37...at 65 around 34. Oh it has no car payment and since I am old and have a perfect driving record I pay next to nothing for insurance......so a new car for me does not make any sense. I just sold my 2005 Mustang because I just did not drive it enough to keep it.....and the wife wants to get rid of her Prius soon. I hate the Prius.....it gets awesome mileage but it just sucks in every other way. She wants a Fiesta or a Soul. Maybe we will at least look at an Insight just to see what everybody is talking about.

bodyblue,

That's the danger of last-minute additions. I didn't mean the Camry got 55 MPG, but the Insight, and it's actually 51 MPG. The Camry got 40,3 MPG at 55 mph. Here's a link to the results of the test:
http://www.cartest.ca/speed_versus_fuel_economy.htm

These results are similar to what people who are careful drivers get on the highway, so I believe them.