I couldn't believe it when Audi first announced that the S4 would trade its V8 for a force-fed six. And I couldn't believe it again when I heard the S5's V8 was also on its way out (the S5 Cabriolet only offers the 3.0-liter supercharged V6, and the S5 coupe will may follow suit for 2011). Audi's 4.2-liter V8 is one of the best engines I've ever experienced, from the S4/S5 versions to the 420-horsepower R8 tune. It's the primary reason why the S5 is cooler than the 335i. What was Audi thinking?
But then I drove the 2010 S4. Ah. That's what they were thinking. What Audi's done here is create a considerably more fuel-efficient motor (27 mpg highway -- same as my '01 Prelude -- vs. 22 mpg for the S5 V8) without sacrificing a whit of performance. The engines are very similar in the way they build power, too: flat torque curves, linear acceleration, instantaneous throttle response (the supercharged six's sharpness must be felt to be believed). They're like two different flavors of the same product.
Personally I'd get a 2010 S5 while I could. One thing a six will never do is sound like a V8, and the S5 4.2's refined burble with the windows down is a thing of beauty. But Audi has really worked wonders with that supercharged motor. The S5 3.0T might still be cooler than the 335i; in fact, it definitely will be if BMW can't keep the N54's throttle lag out of the new single-turbo N55.
Josh Sadlier, Associate Editor @ 15,905 miles
shaddai says:
06:06 PM, 02/ 3/10
Throttle lag... Throttle lag!... BMW introduced turbo lag (allegedly) to mitigate wastegate rattling issues... and possibly others (HPFP fuel pump failures). I hated the lag. HATED it. Very much glad it's gone. I replaced it with the last V8 S4.
Most people lump Audi's 4.2 V8's in one pile, but there are at least two different models. There's the 40 valve V8 in the B6/B7 S4, allroad, and others, and then there's the 32 valve FSI V8 in the S5, RS4 and Q7. Regardless, they're all pretty damn good.
joliveira says:
06:19 PM, 02/ 3/10
V8 here please....
One of the most important things in a engine IMO is the response, and nothing can beat a NA in that department, not even Twin turbo setup, you still have lag.
What a shame, second hand market is starting to be the the way to buy a car for people who like driving. New cars only care about, MPG, environment, cheapness, hybrids, and safety things... driving pleasure is a matter of the past in these days.
cwc1 says:
06:24 PM, 02/ 3/10
When the N54 came out, I recall that it was praised for its lack of throttle lag, and supposedly felt as responsive as a naturally aspirated engine. Is that something that was added to the later cars?
I'd rather have the V8 too, as the V6 will not be quite as smooth as the V8, nor will it be as inherently balanced as an inline six.
wasaabi92 says:
06:39 PM, 02/ 3/10
I too remember all the motoring press lauding BMW for the lack of lag with their twin-turbo N54. Now that the N55 has debuted, has the "old" engine suddenly morphed into an 80s Volvo turbo?
The problem with ever-evolutioning cars is that they're outdated every three years. Shame. Personally, if I were shopping for a turbo car, I'd get one that ACTS like one, so I would've bought an S60 R over a 335i anyday.
But I'd get the Audi V8 over the V6T anyday, too. It sounds glorious! I love when drivers of said 4.2 Audis purposfully downshift so it'll burble to a halt. AMAZING!
hybris says:
07:01 PM, 02/ 3/10
I guess since I like to mod any car I get my hands on I would take the V8 as it has a high max level of output that I can achieve then a already turbocharged V6 that may or may not be at or at least near its max limit.
apinault says:
08:27 PM, 02/ 3/10
I am sorry I have a 335i coupe of course with the N54, and I would like to know where the lag is? I now have 7,100 miles on the clock and have yet to experience it.
cruiserhead1 says:
08:34 PM, 02/ 3/10
The S4 V8 is tons of fun but it's thirsty and slow. They either had to go twin turbo or sc v6
mlowery85 says:
08:39 PM, 02/ 3/10
09 135i here - again - where is the lag? Lag? Does not compute. 300lb-ft of torque at 1400rpm. My car has NO lag whatsoever.
SadButTrue says:
10:21 PM, 02/ 3/10
@joliveira,
"One of the most important things in a engine IMO is the response, and nothing can beat a NA in that department"
Drive a new S4 if you can. Throttle response is indistinguishable from a N/A engine's. It's really amazing.
@apinault and mlowery85,
I'm talking about throttle lag -- the time between when you stomp on the gas and when you get the power you asked for. Say you're driving along at 3,000 rpm and you suddenly floor it. Does your N54 respond immediately with all gajillion horses/torques? No; there's a lull, and then...whoa! There they are. A naturally aspirated engine gives you what you asked for right away, and so does Audi's new supercharged V6. The throttle response of the S4 is night-and-day quicker than the 335i's. Here's our man Jacquot:
"Topping BMW's twin-turbocharged 3.0-liter six in a contest of throttle response is a task we figured impossible. But tickle the Red Baron's go pedal and its V6's instant snap makes the Bimmer engine feel positively apathetic.
So rapid and immediate and crisp is the supercharged Audi engine's response that it made us forget all about the fact that turbos are, ultimately, more efficient than superchargers when it comes to adding power."
http://www.insideline.com/audi/s4/2010/2010-audi-s4-full-test-and-video.html
-Sadlier
scorp76 says:
10:29 PM, 02/ 3/10
M'eh. Sounds contrived and overdone, like the is-f. I'd take the mellifluous n54 in the 335iS anyday of the week and twice on sunday over this thing.
e90_m3 says:
05:51 AM, 02/ 4/10
Hmm even as a V8 owner I would have to side with the supercharged V6 crowd.
The S5 V8 sure is turbine-smooth and sings a good note, but the V6T (V6S?) matches its output AND provides 5mpg better mileage. It is also lighter and alleviates the front-heaviness of Audis.
Not to mention that this and the BMW N54 twin-turbo engines are the easiest engines to tune. Spend a couple grands (or less) on a chip and you can very easily hit 400bhp/400ft-lb. European performance doesn't come cheaper than that.
apinault says:
07:13 AM, 02/ 4/10
After reading the reply, I still have to say, I have not experienced any throttle lag. I also have a 2008 328i which I am not the primary driver. However, the throttle response is the same in the naturally aspirated 328i as the turbo 335i, of course the 335i has WAY more torque and much earlier in the rev band.
throwback says:
07:25 AM, 02/ 4/10
I would love to drive this car with one of Audi's V6 TDI engines.
jeepsrt says:
07:45 AM, 02/ 4/10
The only lag I have experienced in a 335i is on the automatic and it is barely there. I also think Audi should have put the 420 hp V8 in the S5 from the RS4.
dougnash2009 says:
07:50 AM, 02/ 4/10
We bought the '09 G37s 7AT over the '09 335i. It really came down to bang-for-the buck, as we would have needed to spend at least ten-grand more to get the same level of accessories in the BMW.
However, that twin-turbo six had noticeably better throttle response than our Infiniti. Not that the G is bad, at all, it's just that the 335 is SO incredible. It really does feel like it runs on an electric motor.
So, I can't see how they're going to let lag be a factor, even with a different turbo set-up. BMW seems quite committed to making world-class FI engines for the future.
sherief says:
08:56 AM, 02/ 4/10
I thought there was a software fix for the lag issue...
in any case I have driven N54 equipped bimmers, and was shocked at the responsiveness.
Additionally, I thought Audi said they were going to leave the 4.2FSI in the S5 for the forseeable future, to differentiate the S5 as more of a GT car compared to the S4..
lucien4 says:
10:44 AM, 02/ 4/10
It's not true that the S5 V8 is on its way out. Audi said in a German interview recently that the S5 will remain to be offered as V8 since customers didn't want a V6 in such a car.
Full article (with English translation):
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=Internal&a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.focus.de%2fauto%2fautoentwicklung%2ftid-16109%2faudi-interview-mit-michael-dick_aid_451751.html
"On the other hand there are people who vehemently demand the 8 cylinder in the S5 must remain because 6 cylinders doesn't exude the emotions and also doesn't have the sound like the larger engine. We will of course meet the wishes of these customers as a premium provider"
SadButTrue says:
11:26 AM, 02/ 4/10
@lucien4,
Those interview comments seem vague to me regarding the US market. One way Audi could "meet the wishes of customers as a premium provider" would be to sell them the RS5, which we won't get stateside.
Elsewhere there's conflicting information.
Autoblog has "sources inside Audi" telling them that the V8 *might* continue into 2011 and beyond (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/26/audi-4-2-liter-v8-could-continue-in-s5-through-2011-and-beyond/).
But a few months earlier, C&D said that "the S5 coupe will retain the use of a naturally aspirated V-8 until the 2011 model year, when it gets the blown six" (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q1/2010_audi_s5_cabriolet-first_drive_review).
I'm going to change "will" to "may" in the post, but I'm not sure we can say more than that at this point.
-Sadlier
cr_driver says:
03:33 PM, 02/ 4/10
Tough choice, since both are so good getting the job done but differently.
But the V8 gives u what? A tasty "burbly" sound at idle, at start, when accelerating, but a lousy fuel economy.
The V6 loses nothing of the responsiveness of the V8 N/A engine, nothing in terms of acceleration? and all that with a great fuel economy.
So I`d recommend this, buy both! LOL
audibmwfan99 says:
07:51 AM, 02/ 5/10
To Audi: Keep the V8. I bought the S5 because its a competitor to the 6-series with a V8 (and looks better). A V6 may be better logically b/c of better gas mileage + similar performance, but let's be honest, people don't drop this kind of cash based on logic alone. Random people go out of their way to compliment this car. Love it!