2002 Chevrolet Corvette Z06: Dealership Woes

Bad service has killed more car relationships than anything else.

Doesn't it seem like all dealers want to do today is basic warranty work, fluid changes and brake jobs? Basically factory branded Jiffy Lube/Midas shops.

Are today's dealer mechanics the equivalent of a McDonald's cook? In a McDonald's kitchen with the limited ingredients they can make a Big Macs an hour to exact specs. But throw them into a regular restaurant kitchen with a basket of misc ingredients and they would starve before they could cook something edible.

Seriously finding a good mechanic for your car is nearly as important as finding a wife that doesn't mind your hobbies. If you don't find one they will screw you over at some point.

Don't dealers look at the TSB's?? If I were a tech at a dealer, the first thing I would do after a diagnostic would be to read through the TSB's...

WOW - that these idiots didn't even do a TSB search for the year and model is atrocious. I will never understand how they can spend 15 minutes on a computer checking you in and checking you out (and along the way asking you the year, make and model of your car seventeen times) -- and NOT pull the TSB history.

I hope the GM at Cormier is reading this.

So this is the life a Corvette owner can expect? Or is it just that the life of an owner of a few year old GM car can expect? I tend to believe the latter. And some posters on here wonder why GM is regarded with such derision. Do you think it just might have a reason??????? Dealers, no matter who owns them are a reflection of the parent company. I now await the Corvette owners on here to complain that complaining about the dealer is unfair because the REAL Corvette techs work for ind shops. That makes a lot of sense. If you cant get good service from your dealer for a not even 10 year old car why should you expect good service for your 2 year old one? Now if someone wants to argue that ind shops are great for 20+year old cars I would agree because they would specialize in cars that are not normally serviced anymore.

bodyblue says:

"Dealers, no matter who owns them are a reflection of the parent company."

bodyblue, then every car company is bad with that statement. Because everybody somewhere has had problems with a dealer from every car manufacturer. Be it gm, mercedes, vw, audi, bmw, chrysler, ford, etc. People have had problems. Heck even in the group of people i know, everyone has complained about their dealer.

Most of the time its because the mechanics do not get paid for their work. When a job only pays 5/10 and it takes 6 hours to actually fix it, the mechanic is not going to spend all of that time. Why work if you wont get paid. So dont give me its gms fault bull, its a social problem in this country.

I have always had good luck with dealerships, but i know a lot of people that havent.

I also want to point out im not a mechanic. I have friends that are mechanics and they all work at different dealerships. One at a chevrolet store, one at a buick, one at a hyundai, and one at a bmw.

They all say the same thing. Guys are praised for being fast, not for actually fixing the problem correctly. The guy that is fast but doesnt seem to fix things correctly always seems to get the brake jobs and oil changes that make money. Also if you dont kiss ass to the service writers and managers you usually end up with the electrical problem that takes days to diagnose. Its like the real world, people that dont know what they are doing get the easy jobs and get paid more than the people that actually know how to fix something and do it correctly.

My Brother is a Master mechanic for GM.....he started out at a Buick Dealer in the 80's (Jack Tracy in Oakland) that is no longer in business and now is a Master CCT (Chevrolet Certified Tech) for a Chevy dealer in the Bay area. After so many years at a GM dealer my brother has become so disgusted with GM that he has not even owned a GM car in almost 20 years. He does his job the best he can but is stymied by the GM culture.

"So dont give me its gms fault bull, its a social problem in this country. " Yes it is a partial problem in EVERY county and every dealership but especially at GM dealerships. I grew up in the automotive world....Father raced bikes 60 years ago...both brothers raced and worked on bikes and cars and I started out racing cars then realized it was not something I wanted to do for a living when I was 17 so I do know something about automobiles. GM and its dealers have a terrible rep for customer service that they are trying to get rid of and I hope they do. But one of the reasons GM and Chrysler cancelled so many franchise agreements was to get rid of the dealers that were killing the reputation of their parent companies. There still a lot of bad dealers out there and some good ones also. Maybe it will get better and maybe it wont.....it sure needs too.

Bodyblue, if you go through every LTT vehicle, you'll find many examples of bad service from many brands. Best dealer shop I've delt with? GM! Worst? Lexus! It's entirely dependent on the shop, not the manufacturer. And Mike, why don't you go, TSB in hand, back to the dealer and have them fix it right? Hunting for a better one could be time consuming, unless you know of a good independent Corvette shop.

I'm glad that you are reporting your experiences. What we keep hearing from GM: "Oh, we're better now, give us another chance.". Reality, they still, um, have opportunities for improvement.

Yes, I'm a GM owner, and likely never will be again.

Also, I've had bad experiences with other makes' dealers, but GM has been the worst of the worst. My particular Pontiac/Buick/GMC dealer, after selling me a new car, started robocalling my cell phone with an empassioned plea to "fill out every item in the customer survey as extermely satisfied, and if you can't please call us to have us fix the issue". Well, I did have an issue. I had unreasonable excessive vibration and it took multiple follow up visits to finally get it corrected.

My dealer wanted to give the impression of good customer service without actually delivering customer satisfaction.

GM should have had the freedom to fail so that they could rebuild from the ground up correctly. Unfortunately, we've band-aided them, and allowed them to continue business as usual.

Tex,

I did not get my point across very well I guess.....I meant that GM was one of the worst offenders, but not the worst....from most things I have read and friends is that VW just might be the worst. And since Lexus dealers have a much better rep, that must have been quite an anomaly. There are reasons for things....including reputations.....usually that they include a good part of the truth. Ford dealers have a fair rep but not much more and I have been treated well by my local dealer but not well by another, so yes things vary. But you are wrong about the parent company not having any influence on the dealer.....very wrong.

And Tex is correct...go back to the dealer and make them eat that TSB.

Maybe Brent could weight in on this: How different are the driving characteristics between the base motor and the LS6? I wouldn't need the power upgrade of this motor, but I'm sure it revs quite a bit higher and perhaps even sweeter.

I'm with Tex shove the TSB in this techs face ask him if this is characteristic of this service shop?

At least it's good to know that once you've solved this problem you shouldn't have anymore troubles with this car.....

I'd check with the Corvette clubs. Odds are someone knows exacty what your problem is and how to fix it.

Rule number 1# about owning used cars. Ignore the dealers.

oddly enough, i've had pretty good dealership experiences.

one thing i have learned, before you go into the dealership, do your homework. insideline should of had an editor or intern scour the corvette forums for anyone with knowledge about this issue. they would have found out about the tsb and could have had it in-hand when they brought it to the dealer.

for example:

the 2005-2007ish mustangs had a problem with a the fuel pump. after driving long distances when you came to a stop and then accelerated the engine would cut out and jerk the car quite violently. i had this happen to me a handful (or fewer) times. i found out about a tsb issued by ford and brought it in and handed it to the service manager and he said, "ok, should take a couple of hours..."

imagine what would likely have happened had i not had that tsb.... think they would take it out to the interstate and drive it for an hour? and even if they did the problem would likely not occur.

show them you are knowledgeable and help them out and you'll get better results.

So you're told the usual fix for the problem, and the particular issue was recreated and identified by the dealer. However, since they didn't pull up the TSB on a particular issue the dealership has shoddy work and service?

bodyblue

your screen name should have been buttonpusher

lol

All of the Corvette owners (myself included) have been telling Edmunds to skip the dealer and go straight to one of the local speed shops....er Corvette shops to have the car fixed.

I've done a lot of work on cars myself (heads, cams, exhausts, intakes, manifolds, electronics) to know that the mechanics at the dealership don't care if the car is out of warranty. This is why I taught myself how to install and fix stuff.

Once again Edmunds. Take it to a local Corvette tuner or just simply pull the intake manifold off yourself. It's not that difficult except for a few bolts that are under the firewall in the back edge of the engine. These instructions are pretty close to the same for a Corvette: http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=5

Also, when and if you find a Corvette tuner, see if they can lower the timing right where you are hearing/feeling the pinging. Perhaps once this is done...the ping will be gone.

Edmunds....I beg and plead to you...listen to the Vette and LSX experienced owners on here....or better yet...go check out www.corvetteforums.com or www.ls1tech.com as there are tons of people who know they are are doing there.

campi3ell, the dealership did not fix it. They basically told Edmunds to just deal with the pinging and that it's normal....

Well, that LT Ferrari is looking mighty good right about now.

This is why I purchased a Saturn over Chevy. Having owned both for the last 17 years, from 1993 until present, the Saturn dealer always treated us well. The only reason we bought the Venture was that Saturn didn't make a minivan back in 2000.

I am fortunate that until October of this year, I can still go to a Saturn dealer for service. However, in the future, when I have to go to the local Chevy for warranty issues, that will determine whether GM gets my money in the future.

This is what has cost GM and will in the future, especially Chevy dealers dealing with former Saturn owners. Chevy and consequently GM have a long way to go. It is a shame, the new Regal looks so nice, would have made a great new Aura :(

Can you imagine the local Chevy dealer trying to figure out the Volt, oh my god. It appears GM hasn't figured it out yet. Getting rid of the bad dealers is as important as having good cars.

I don't think all dealers (even GM dealer) are anywhere near as bad as they're being portrayed here, but firstwagon's advice of
"I'd check with the Corvette clubs. Odds are someone knows exacty what your problem is and how to fix it."

is dead on. For a car like this, you need to talk to people that are passionate about cars like this.

Attn: Mike Schmidt -
As someone's already mentioned here on IL, before:
"Also, Charlie at RPM Motors in Santa Clarita has an excellent reputation on the Corvette Forum. I don't think you could go wrong with either one..."
Why don't you guys just take your Vette to RPM, have it dyno'd while you're there, and I'm sure they'll be able to sort out your knock problem, too!
http://www.rpm-motors-inc.com/index.php?ukey=auxpage_1

When you have one bad service experience at a dealer, I just go to another one. There are good and bad with EVERY MANUFACTURER. I especially got a kick out of the local Toyota dealer that told my bother he needed an new engine because it was PITTED! When I asked him to explain PITTED, he could not. I sold remanufacturered engines to Toyota dealers at the time, and told my brother to take it to an independent shop as they were not only ignorant, they were trying to sell him a remanufactured engine for $600 over the LIST PRICE from the supplier (not mine).

Knowledge is power, and I was able to tell my future wife she had a broken timing belt from 1,000 miles away, even though when she called the local Ford dealer they told her it was electrical. Guess what, she needed a timing belt, but they didn't install it properly, and her Mustang ran rough, so I told her to take it back and get the alignment marks set right. I also got her parents a new transmission for their Chrysler, after the service manager ADMITTED they didn't do a complete rebuild a year earlier and thier patch failed just after the dealers warranty expired. Guess what, that dealership got terminated in the bankruptcy.

I've seen good GM dealers and bad GM dealers, I know the bad, I'll travel a few extra miles to go to the good.

like everyone said, there are good dealerships and bad ones. There are 3 chevrolet dealerships by me. 2 are good, 1 is bad. The ford dealership sucks around here and the lexus dealership is terrible. Its just how it is.

I believe one day people will be buying cars from Brick and Mortar retailers. You will walk into a walmart or a costco or anywhere not deal with all the dealership bs and buy a car. Then when your car needs work there is a local service center that fixes all the vehicles.

Also like everyone said, if you do a little research before you come in like look for a tsb the better chance it will be fixed properly.

this is an obvious example of the dealer being at fault and ruining it for the whole company. a tsb exists, so obviously GM did their part.

a car company can build the most reliable cars ever, but without proper support from the dealership network, it might as well be junk to the unfortunate small percentage with defects. inversely, a car company can build a piece of junk and as long as they warranty the problems and the dealership fixes it correctly, it will end up being very reliable.

"GM should have had the freedom to fail so that they could rebuild from the ground up correctly. Unfortunately, we've band-aided them, and allowed them to continue business as usual."

That's only partially accurate. Even under GM's planned and supported bankruptcy, they were able to cut a significant amount of under-performing dealers. Unfortunately, dealers are powerful forces in their community and are extremely politically powerful, so politicians from both parties screwed over GM and Chrysler (as well as free market principles) and essentially forced them to keep their crappy dealers.

Headed someplace else? Like Lingenfelter? I mean, we don't have the Project EVO anymore, so ostensibly there's a slot in the fleet for a project car. The 'Vette would be a natural choice...

I think all GM dealerships are headed in this "well, the computer isn't telling me anything is wrong, despite obvious mechanical errors, thus, it is an operator error". At least the dealer acknowledged they experienced the ping. I went back and forth for over a year with Saturn of Sterling, VA to get my transmission fixed. I finally had to break down and take video of reverse suddenly and violently engaging before they would actually look at the car beyond plugging it in to a computer.

Guys, this is an eight year old exotic machine. There will be a "sorting out" period with any car such as this high performance Vette.

GM does not have a monopoly on terrible dealership service departments. I have had fits with one of my local Toyota dealerships; the other one was fine.

Pay attention to the other Corvette owners who have posted on this blog. Don't trust your machine to a wrench turner at the dealership. You are setting yourself up to be disappointed and angry. Go to your local Vette tuner and I promise you, he has seen this detonation problem before, knows the reason why it is happening and knows how to fix it. You won't be sorry and you'll have a relationship established with a true professional, specialized shop that can help you with some of the mods you (hopefully) will do the the car.

Call the local Corvette Club and get some recommendations on quality tuner shops.

Now, get busy and go to the right place, get this thing fixed and start driving it as it was meant to be driven!

Because he's on vacation, I will repost for him. Why don't you guys use the friendly advice offered by your readers?? StingRay told you this in a post about "The Story"

stingray454 says:

06:48 AM, 01/20/10

That's definitely strange, as these engines aren't prone to pinging, and I've never heard it in mine. Mine's been modified and dyno tuned, but I drove 20,000 miles on it stock and never heard pinging then either.

Take it to L.A.P.D (L.A. Performance Division). www.thelapd.com They specialize in tuning Corvettes. They dyno tuned mine after I had the cold air intake and headers installed and they did a great job. I guarantee they'll find your pinging problem faster than a dealer can.

Part of the problem might be the "get what you pay for" as dependable, quality car care will likely cost more than what most people feel they should pay, those people will in turn go to where ever has the lowest price. This in turn, causes other locations to compete and either hire less qualified technicians or cut corners to keep customers coming back in. For instance, simply rely on a diagnostic computer instead of researching TSBs.

There's a saying I love that goes, "Cheap, Good or Fast...pick two." You can get service that's good and fast, but it won't be cheap. You can get service that's fast and cheap, but it won't be good. or you can get service that's good and cheap, but it won't be fast. You get the idea, it basically boils down to too many people expecting something for nothing and causing dealerships and local shops to do what they can to keep those folks appeased.

My 2 cents.